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About ianlippert

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  1. This is mainly what I was talking about. To translate this into adventure game term would mean there would be "side quests" or "side puzzles" that would be a little something extra for those that put in the extra time to explore. What the skyrim quest is good at (and I agree the mechanics are usually fairly simple) is that it sends you off on an adventure where you have to travel to another part of the world and your reward is that you usually get to delve a little deeper into the lore and world. Its the world building that Bethesda is great at and could be converted fairly easily into an adventure game. One great example was the original quest for glory, in its initial incarnation as Hero Quest it was literally a merging of adventure game and rpg. They were able to pull off the questing and puzzle solving of the adventure genre while having the class structure and open world exploration of an rpg. Another game someone brought up was zelda. The strength of zelda is that the items in those game are far less generic than the stat loot that you get to plug into your excel sheet ala Diablo. The items all do interesting things that let you interact with the world. The adventure game often limits its item to single specific uses and then they become discarded. The adventure game could incorporate a more zelda-ish item system where items allow you more interation with the world. It doesnt even have to be large multiple paths to take but maybe just a few little story pieces here and there for those that are smart enough to come up with clever ideas for item use. Basically rewarding those that put in more time and effort into exploring the world.
  2. I just came to this forum and already it seems like the most intelligent and respectful forum dialogue I've ever seen on the Internet (forshame!). I think it's pretty obvious that shafer and crew are better at making games than we are and they will have final say. What we can do is have thoughtful intelligent discussions that will hopefully inspire them to take some of our ideas and put them into the game. If you came onto this project thinking that it was going to be development by mob democracy then I think you were sorely mistaken. If there is no good conversation here (and so far it looks interesting) maybe what the OP simply needs is to take a break, get out and smell the flowers, there is more to life than the success or failure of a $15 dollar adventure game and whether or not our conversations here are successful is completely meaningless to the development of this game. If this forum devolved into a forum of mouth breathing trolls I have no doubt DFA would go on and still become a great game.
  3. Yes a point and click adventure but not simply a photocopy of the genre as it stood in the 80s and 90s. I don't just want a game, I want the genre revitalized which will require innovation. We have already seen in the videos that the DF team understands that adventure games of yore had some serious gameplay issues. First and most obvious is that most puzzles devolve into pixel hunting. If the developers don't hit the sweet spot in difficulty (and with a range of player skill this is almost impossible) many players will get stuck, start pixel hunting, get tired of this type of "gameplay" and either quit or turn to a gamefaq. In an earlier video they discussed that one of ways to get around this is to give your player something else to work on, multiple puzzles, multiple paths, exploration and adventure. The second is that gameplay in many adventure games revolves around a flip-a-page puzzle book Mechanics. You move you avatar from one screen to another solving puzzles in a rather linear fashion but in this style the avatar is superfluouis. If the avatar is removed you actually get a more streamlined experience and you could have a more user friendly style by having the player select which screen he wants to go to and then have him solve puzzles on the screen. The flip a page puzzle solver may have worked 15 years ago when gamers were less sophisticated but today's modern gamer can quickly see through these mechanics and can see that they really aren't that much fun. Adventure games used to be able to hide this with story and exploration, but in modern times the adventure game is simply outclassed by games with larger budgets that have more exploration and deeper and more interactive stories ala mass effect. I have no problems if you guys dislike Skyrim, I am not here to get involved in that debate. What I do want to point out is that we should shoot higher than maniac mansion 3, we should be aiming for a complete revitalization of the adventure genre. If we want to accomplish that goal, and I think that's what shafer and his team want to shoot for and have a real shot at accomplishing it, it means that we are going to have to be honest about what sucks about old adventure games. We are going to have to create a game in an environment that has seen 15+ years of innovation in story telling and world building. If Skyrim isn't a game that convinces you that other genres have innovated and left the adventure game genre in the dust I could list off another 10-15 games off the top of my head from the last 15 years. I really am trying to push this point because I want people to be excited about moving away from their comfort zone and into something that is unfamiliar but may actually be far superior than what came before. I am sorry if I want a great game for the money that I put down but I think Tim Schafer and crew are completely capable of delivering a new and amazing experience to us even though they have sold it as "just" a point and click adventure game.
  4. I only played a little of machinarium but it seems to fall into the linear progression blocked by sometimes clever sometimes obtuse puzzles school of adventure games. In the video when that critique cam up they even show a clip from machinarium. What Skyrim did is take the quest line idea of RPGs and cranked it up to 11. Allowing each individual player to play their own game. No two Skyrim players have the same adventure and the game engendered the Kind of watercooler talk that so many have enjoyed. This thread is not about whether or not Bethesda was successful but what kinds of non linear gameplay can be used in adventure game. I also think that bio wares dialogue and story telling would also be a good example.
  5. I won't turn this into a Skyrim vs morrowind thread but I am in fact an old school morrowind fan. Skyrim was just an example. When the vid said infinite possibilities I knew exactly what they were talking about. That's what I feel when I step out of every jail cell in the beginning of each elderscrolls game. Dagger fall, morrowind, oblivion, Skyrim, every time I it's the best feeling, a feeling of infinitie possibility. The whole point of the comment in the video is that adventure games actually only have the illusion of infinite possibility, they are in fact really linear and scripted. The reason we all felt that back then was because adventure games were the only game in town so to speak. The only games that allowed any kind of significant and interesting exploration. Bt with the advent of 3d every genre has captured some element of this explorative wonder. I can name tons of non adventure games that have given this to me, Skyrim, Mario 64, Zelda, civilization, half life. The unique ability of adventure games to deliver has been diminished (ie they lost their monopoly) and to gain it back I think there is a lot to learn from where other genres have taken it. I didn't have to use Skyrim but it was the first good example that came to mind.
  6. This is kind of a strange thing to say, you have a PhD but haven't done anything substantial? I am 32 and just completed a BA/MA THAT TOOK ME 7 years and I feel like my life is just about to begin. The stuff you probably missed in your 20s is of little substance and with a PhD you probably have more opportunities open to you than others. If you don't want to tangent this thread with personal issues that's ok but it seems like this thread has taken a turn towards the philosophical.
  7. Hi guys I'm Ian I'm 32 and live Canada and work as a research assistant for the government. Grew up playing the Sierra quest games, space, hero, police, Larry, kings, etc. also loved the monkey island series, Indiana jones, Sam and max, and day of the tentacle. Kind of got out of the genre before grim fandango and psychopaths and never really was able to get back into the genre. Every time my nostalgia drew me back in the hopes of reliving those adventures I came face to face with linear boring pixel hunts and quickly left. I had entirely relegated the adventure game to the dustbin of video game history until I happened to download stacked, the guy that did monkey island? This might be good! And it was. Shafer's team at DF had managed to take the tedium of hunting down that single obtuse solution (usually by a google search) that most adventure games fall prey to. I love how every puzzle had multiple solutions and told you up front, making it easy for any skill of player to solve the range of difficulty presented by the numerous solutions. The interface of stacking into other dolls made the interface easy to use and also allowed a large "vocabulary" that was common in older adventure games. The game was great and when I saw the kick starter go up it was an insta purchase. Watching the first two episodes I am so excited to listen to a team that understands adventure games. Not only what's good about them but more importantly what went wrong with them. Every thing in the videos so far has been insightful and has been worth the money I spent alone. I can't wait to see we DF can come up with and I think if anyone can do it, it's going to be them.
  8. I just finished watching the second episode and one thing that really stuck out for me was when Tim was discussing how the adventure games of old gave the player this sense of infinite possibility (how perceptive, it's like I read the video title or something). These games were able to give us this sense mainly because we were too young to really understand the mechanics of how the world was presented to us. I think that one of the main reasons adventure games lost popularity was that that other genres were quickly developing their own methods of projecting this sense of infinite possibility onto the player. The move to 3d gave genres like FPS and RPGs the ability to break the monopoly the adventure game had on the genre of world building and exploration. With budgets for adventure games dwindling, the adventure game receded to a genre that resembled that of an animated puzzle book. The genre tried to hide this fact with story telling and atmosphere but it was impossible to completely convince the player that what they were playing wasn't linear, sometimes obtuse, and often an exercise in pixel hunting frustration. It's really no wonder we find ourselves at this point in time where the adventure game is on life support. What I would like to start a conversation on is how DFP can learn from what the other genres have learnt in capturing the sense of infinite possibility. In the modern era there is really no other company that does it better then Bethesda, and there has never been a modern game that has captured it like Skyrim. What that games does is pack its world with a metric ton load of things to do and let's the player take control of what order they want to do them in. Now I know that DFA doesn't have the budget of Skyrim but I think there are lots of lessons to be learnt about putting the "adventure" back in adventure games. Let me explore, give me the option to create my own story, and reward me for taking the path less travelled. DF is a company that restored my faith in adventure games when I spent $5 on stacked. While the levels didn't have the complexity of a game like Skyrim, it had me searching around an "exploring" the environment and puzzles in a way I hadn't enjoyed doing in an adventure game since playing through the old Sierra games like space quest and quest for glory. While the possibilities werent as infinite as a game like Skyrim, I definitely got a piece of that feeling that was worth well more than the $5 I spent on it. What do you guys think? Are there things DF can do to leave us with a game that isn't of the puzzle book genre?
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