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Melting Sky

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About Melting Sky

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  1. I think this has already been touched upon but I remember back when I was playing this obsessively I did a lot of testing with the archies vs other anti aircraft turrets for their effectiveness against the volt dropper and the archie is less than half as effective against the Volt Droppers as the Iron Clad Flak turret. The archies have one purpose which they excel at which is taking out swarms of fliers that are close together. Against single targets such as the VD they just don't have the damage output that the ICF does. Of course neither work as well as sniper turrets but the challenge here is doing swamp without them. I have tried this challenge before and failed. I made it into the 70s if I remember correctly. There are viable replacements for sniper turrets against ground targets but their just aren't any anti air turrets that can really pull it off against volt droppers and although you can swat volt droppers yourself at the lower levels they just have too many hit points take out once you are at higher levels. Even a Karslon decked out with nothing but Hyper Snipers and Fiestas blasting the VD and never missing won't be able to kill it in time once you are up in the 90s. At those higher levels, killing the VD will come down to your turrets. As for the debate between the Albert and Fiestas... it comes down to play style, situation and map size. I personally like the Fiestas more if I am playing solo on swamp simple for their damage output. On larger maps I prefer Albert since all that extra damage the Fiestas do is worthless if the enemy is out of range half the time. For the purpose of killing the VD and taking no other situation into account, hyper snipers are probably the best option or a combination of hyper snipers and fiestas if you have a trench with an odd number of slots on it. Fiestas simply don't have the range to hit the VD during the course of its entire loop and the Albert and other snipers have lower DPS than the hyper sniper. Personally, while I was attempting solo runs on swamp I used Fiestas. The map is small enough that their lesser range isn't as big an issue.
  2. Nothing in the game can replace a honey church in solo. Testing a scrapper hammer against honey church this way is a bit like solo testing a scrapper karlson vs a honey church . It doesn't mean that the karlson is junk just because it can't solo well, same with the selker and hammer. I guess it does speak well for the hammer that it is the only other chassis that it is even possible to do the mars solo runs with, but at the same time its really not a fair test for a chassis and build that's meant to be used as part of a team. Since scrapper builds are always used in multi player, the best test would be to run something like two honey churches and a selker on the 1st survival run then two hammers with scrapper builds and a selker on the the 2nd run. Set each team up with the same emplacements, except of course for the honey church team's extra 2 green slots which they can use anyway they want. Also set the trenches up on each team with as close to the same weapons as possible except for the rippers. For instance if the honey church was running two fiestas then the hammer which replaces it next run should also be running fiestas on its open slots. There are far too many variables to control properly to get an exact result back from any kind of test we can devise but I think if we were to sit down and do at least 2 full wave 100 runs with each of the set ups I mentioned, it would give us a very good feel for how well a scrapping hammer will perform. Since there are two basic scrapper options for the hammer it would probably be much easier to just have one of each for the testing even though the results won't be as informative. The two basic options are of course one ripper or two. I guess the other benefit of testing both hammer set ups at the same time is that both teams will have very similiar dps as far as weapons go. I think the honey church team will have roughly 480 dps. The hammer team will be around 460 dps. The Hammers will have 4% less fire power, be 50% more heavily armored, slower by 2 and their team will have 2 green emplacements instead of 4. Since two green emplacements is all you really ever need, this last change won't really effect anything. Although the 50% armor boost is pretty substantial, all of the other little negative variables added together help to balance that out and in the end they don't matter nearly as much as scrap efficiency/production. That's really what we are looking at testing here. It will be interesting just how much of a difference the three rippers make. Will they cover the extra cost of the emplacements? I did a little math and for the Hammer team to come out ahead they would have to generate at least 15 extra scrap for every one hundred that would normally be generated. So basically it means that each of the hammers will have to the hit tubes with a little over 3.3 seconds of fire during the period of time it takes to generate 100 scrap in order to fully counterbalance the cheaper emplacement bonus of the honey church team. Any scrapping beyond the 3.3 seconds will put them ahead of team honey church. Looking at these numbers, I think team hammer has a a pretty solid chance of coming out ahead. For instance if under these same circumstances you can squeeze in 6 seconds of scrapping per hammer, their team's scrap efficiency will exceed that of the honey church team by over 10%. If you average that out over the course of a whole game its a huge amount of scrap. You would also want to set each trench up with the same gear in all the test run and its important that the ssm placements are the same or at least very similar since they actually make a really big difference in scrap production. Its probably better not to use them at all to keep it more even but I guess that's also a bit less realistic. The tests could even be done with one honey church/selker and one hammer/selker although it will be harder to see the difference between the chassis this way. I'm totally up for doing the testing if anybody wants to join me. I think it will be fun to change things up a bit and I don't mind playing the hammer builds. So for those of you who really hate playing them you could just run the honey church or selker. Oh yeah, one last important variable to control, if at all possible, is to use the same players when running the tests. Nothing changes the performance lvl of a trench more than the skill of the player. I'm a solid player, not the best of the best, but for the purposes of doing a few wave 100 survival runs my skills will more than suffice. Anyone who can easily pull off 100 wave survival runs consistently is welcome to help and will be greatly appreciated.
  3. True but unlike the topiary trimmer, both perferators and the MM launcher actually get used by people because of their godly special abilities. Both have abilities that can greatly increase their dps. That's what dooms the trimmer to obscurity. It's just a plain old machine gun with mediocre dmg when you compare it to the fiestas which have the same range and are also just raw damage with no special abilities.
  4. I went out and decided to test the Rex vs Fiesta to get a feel for how the damage was being dealt. Although you can certainly hit many tubes at once with the Rex it definitely isn't doing full damage to those targets. I had in the past always played with the pellet shotguns on levels where the tubes were probably too weak to notice the difference but on the new survival maps its definitely become evident that the shot damage is divided amongst the targets. Let me know if you also find this to be true.
  5. :lol: Yeah now that I look back on it, a 3 slot heavy machine gun with double range and knock back really would be a bit on the over powered side. I guess you would probably need to tone the damage down a little bit for balance. Currently the topiary trimmer is pretty seriously underpowered so there is quite a bit of slack to take up. Basically you would want the 3 slot machine gun to outperform using 3 perforaters or at least match them while filling a different niche. I've always thought it would be nice to have more levels of knock back power to assign to the various weapons. Currently there is nothing that will knock back the big tubes like Willies. I have always though it would be great if the big 3 slot artillery pieces would knock back the more beastly tubes or maybe even something like the Sod Off.
  6. I have often wondered just how the damage is calculated on the pellet spraying weapons like the Blastasaurus Rex or Sod Off. It seems to me that they do full damage to any tube that happens to catch part of the spread but it's rather difficult to be certain. If its true that they do full damage to everything they hit then these two guns I mentions must be contenders for some of the highest dps potentials in the game. From what I can tell the spray seems to have about the same diameter as a hole puncher explosion. Hole punchers have much smaller blasts than most explosive weapons. I find it a bit odd that nobody plays with these guns, particularly the hole puncher fans. Personally I really hate short range weapons which is why you will always see me with fiestas or an mm launcher instead in most cases but the for people who are willing to overlook the range limitations it would seem that the Blastasaurus wouldn't be half bad? Maybe the damage isn't dealt the way I think it is. The hole punchers have a rapid rate of fire, but do less damage per shell. In the end the dps must be very similar to the Rex. They have the disadvantage of flying in a ballistic trajectory instead of strait. They do have the advantage of exploding to remove breaker armor. The main disadvantage to the single explosive shell is when you are being attacked by enemies that are side by side on the lateral axis but different distances away the shell will only hit one of them. The Rex can't pop breaker shells, but it fires strait and when you face the situation I just mentioned above you can actually hit both tubes despite the fact one is further away than the other. I guess if you are a really terrible shot and can't hit a tube that is right in your face the rex is also more forgiving of misses where as the the hole puncher shell will sail over or to the left of it's head etc and into the background somewhere. In reality this doesn't make much of a distance at such incredibly short ranges unless you really are an awful shot.
  7. I like that idea. Solo swamp to 100 with a scrapper hammer build and then with a honey church that doesn't use green emplacements, or at least not SSMs. Then compare the results. I might actually give this a shot myself if I find time.
  8. Yeah the buggy knock back which flings pinned Willies skyward is incredibly annoying. It's one of the few things I really don't like about the mm launcher. The hole punchers have this issue too but it is far less pronounced. Although off topic one of the funnest builds to play on swamp is a Karlson with 2 mm launchers and 2 hole punchers. Tubes go flying everywhere and the carnage is truly epic. Yes, I know its in no way optimal other than that you get to blow away tubes like a madman but its serious fun. It's so refreshing to play a Karlson as an actual gunship rather than the usual psuedo engineer scrapper.
  9. You do have a point about running a two man team without a crane. It is a bit risky but so long as you make sure that there is always one player with good health it's rare to lose a match from both people dying at the same time but I must admit when it does happen it is completely infuriating. The exception to this rule about cranes being optional and nice insurance but not completely necessary is Hospital. Believe it or not, this easy map is down right lethal to a two man engineer team if you get one of those nasty waves with snipers and jaccobs showing up on both sides at wave 90+ without a crane. I always found it very odd that you don't get snipe tubes on swamp or settlement.
  10. It's sad the lvl 10 Mr. Pancakes is still by far the best 3 slot weapon in the game. Hmmmm, I suppose of all the things in the game that suffer from being underpowered I would have to say the entire broadcaster weapon class really takes the cake. They are all 3 slot duds, every last one of them. The heavy laser is the only one that even comes close to being usable but falls short quite literally due to its buggy range. Wouldn't it be great if there was a laser style weapon that had some of the other broadcaster effects such as slow, or deathsplosion? If there ever is another update to Iron Brigade, or better yet a second installment of the game, I would love to see some of these under used weapons getting some love.
  11. I think the one thing everyone can agree on is that the McGarry is a POS. :lol: BTW except for testing purposes for these scrapper threads, I almost never play a hammer. Maybe 2% of the time just because I am so bored of the honey church. I think maybe I will take it along on a serious run sometime just to see what its like to take a ripper hammer out to wave 100.
  12. I would love to see just one worthwhile 3 slot weapon, preferably artillery but hell even some sort of beastly 3 slot sniper cannon or laser would be great, just something that is 3 slots and isn't a joke.
  13. I guess in addition to the piercing sniper turret the other thing that really drives me nuts is that the big 3 slot weapons are all so inferior to their 1 and 2 slot counterparts that no serious player will use them except for messing around. The whole point to having those big assault trenches was for them to be gun ships. Now we see the mighty karslon mostly doing duty as pseudo engineering mech in the form of a scrapper. Don't get me wrong, I love scrapping its just I think its sad that we don't have a single 3 slot weapon that is worth taking along. It would have been so easy to make one that was decent too. I mean just putting shock++ on the lillipad would have probably been enough to make the thing useful in some niches. Giving the heavy laser its full listed range of 1000 meters would have made it at least decent enough not to be a joke. They could have made a high lvl version of the experimental device that combined the slowing effects of that one artillery gun from hospital survival with the dot effect of the orange plasma balls. A three slot sniper cannon such a Gungnir Mark 2 that had a two round clip and pierce or a topiary trimmer with an extra 200 range and knock back would have both been cool and effective. Even the the awesomely silly barrel launcher could have been a cool gun if they simply doubled its damage.
  14. Since this was originally about scrapper builds and I don't see many using this set up I thought I would add it. Karlson with 4 rippers and massive magnet launcher. The launcher has about double the range of the hole punchers thanks to the magnetic clusters which also make it so you don't have to aim high for the shells to land on target. Most importantly they stun the tubes and hold them in place for your rippers. Sure you don't get quite the damage output of two hole punchers but with a scrapper its really not about doing damage anyway. It's a build I often use when scrapping. I find the stun, extra range and magnet affect worth it. It's also a lot less boring to play than the 6 ripper set up. : )
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