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Arenegeth

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About Arenegeth

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  1. Your hostility was apparent from your first reply to my novel which was not directed at you, that was what set the tone (you are also guilty of everything you accuse me off, re-read your posts, including edits for proof). If the post and subject was not important to you, you shouldn't make half-assed downright ignorant replies about my point of view, drenched in hostility, and moved on right there and then, or better yet, and this is probably the best advice you’re gonna get by my condescending ass today, ignore my long post altogether if it is such a hassle for you to read more than two paragraphs of text at a time. I’m sorry, you don’t seem to want to play nice, and my time, patience and good will has run out. Have a nice day.
  2. Your post count correlates to your ability to know anything about me besides the one post you read and didn’t like (for example to know how I have expressed my self against leaking in the past, since you didn’t participate in a discussion with me before). And you don’t comprehend my point, because I haven’t expressed it fully (are you a seer?), we haven’t had an argument with point and counterpoint, I just said something, not explicitly directed at anyone and without fleshing it out and you just attacked. I don’t even know what your stance is, we haven’t discussed anything, you’re so hostile and with apparent animosity towards me, all because of one non-descript post. In case you haven’t noticed I keep trying to offer an olive branch (because fighting on the internet is meaningless) and you still respond with ire, and read malintent behind my words. If you want to have an actual discussion with me, about any subject that relates to this thread, go ahead, otherwise put the swords down I’m not out to get you, I just expressed an opinion and reflex-defended myself. Now can we move on?
  3. You come off at me with only 6 posts in this forum, because I expressed an opinion, you are free to disagree, but for someone who wants to remain upbeat you ooze with hostility. I meant my advice genuinely, not as a means to offend. Perhaps you should heed it, instead of calling the kettle black, Mr. Pot (and I mean that jovially). But, please, let’s do carry on.
  4. I read it, but I think you’re right about moving on. Just as an advice for the future, do not be so hostile to people just because you disagree with them, particularly when you don’t even comprehend the full extent of their point of view… Carry on.
  5. I think the confusion comes from DF not specifying exactly what they mean, in a very-open current internet environment. The lines in the ground are very hard to distinguish these days, the publicity of what you write does not necessarily depend if you belong in an ‘official’ publication, if they choose to pick up your blog entry or whatever and run with it as they have in many occasions when they figured it would get them hits. What is a review these days? Does it need a score or not? Does it need to say it is a review or not? Everything is so open these days and with so many people involved you don’t know when one thing begins and another ends. And what is a blog? These things are so hard to define, my impressions on Act 1 with or without score, with or without the word review associated with it, could still be interpreted as a ‘review’ on a ‘blog’. Lokken, writing my impressions on the (half) game I paid for when I get it in my hands has nothing to do with leaking information early, it is also not my job as a consumer to help DF market their games, I also did not insinuated that there was any threat imposed on DF's part, my long winded post if you bothered to read it covered the concept of embargo in general and the when and how they apply it in the industry, not just this isolated case. And the lack of any sort of threat in this case, is what makes the request ridiculous. Particularly when the word embargo has a precedent in the video game press.
  6. I agree with the savygamer article on the embargo issue, it will be broken regardless of whatever DF wants and it is also unreasonable to expect it of all backers. When on the internet the line between official publication and random guy’s blog is so thinly drawn some times. Embargoes in general are a messed up sign of a control-crazy, usually publisher imposed industry, they are used as a means to control the marketing and perception about a game prior and at day 1 release, while still providing the game to publications early for review purposes, with the caveat being, “you talk about our game before we want you to, we blacklist you”. The unreasonable of this case, is that is kind of hard to blacklist a random backer with his private blog, that only his friends regularly look into, because somebody tipped Kotaku about it and they linked to it, when that blogger will never expect a review copy from you or interviews or whatever. Is hard to force an embargo when you have no means of coercion. More than that, DF isn’t a Publisher, even if a big site like IGN, Kotaku, Polygon etcetera officially broke a loosely based embargo like this one (or even a normal one), what are they gonna do? Blacklist them? They can’t afford to, they need the publicity, they don’t have millions upon millions of marketing money to make a game visible. Having one or more of the major gaming sites not cover your game does more harm than whatever the breaking of a loose embargo will. Of course they already send review codes to those places, with pre-agreed embargoes for the 27th, but I won’t be surprised if some of them link to random backer specific blogs or videos based on their impressions of the game prior to that. Particularly if there’s something controversial (thus views) about it. As far as why DF even asked this? DF is a developer that has for a long time, until the creation of this Kickstarter project actually, worked exclusively with Publishers, a lot of their tactics when it comes to marketing and even their communication with fans resemble typical Publisher PR scenarios (when was the last time an indie got so much exposure at the VGA’s?) which comes of a bit schizophrenic because at the same time, since starting this project they have been very open and ‘indie’ as well. Of course that is my estimation of the situation, who knows what they were thinking when they came up with it. Personally, as if anybody cares, do not watch, or do Let’s Plays so I won’t be breaking any embargoes that way, I will be probably, maybe, writing my impressions of Act 1 when I finish it whatever those may be and whenever that may be, but it won’t be in a form a of a review, nor do I have my own site. If writing “I liked/disliked this half-game” on the internet somewhere counts as breaking an embargo, I encourage DF to sue me, it should be fun…
  7. After waiting all this time it feels a bit weird now that we are finally getting to play the game, well half of it anyway. I hope this long journey was worth the destination, only a few hours to find out now…
  8. I think the reason people got worked up with the Broken Age split was the idea that they needed to sell half the game to fund the other half, rather that it went Episodic. With Revolution they are releasing the game in two parts so they can beat the Holiday rush, given that Episode 2 comes out a month later. Or that is my assessment anyway. As far as the topic at hand goes, no early access game should ever be reviewed, but only previewed, is just, unprofessional to do so otherwise. A good example would be Minecraft, most serious sites only reviewed it after its official release, but of course that didn't stop many lesser sites or user reviews popping up as early as the Alpha, that may be the case with this game as well depending on interest. Of course Broken Age is not your average early access game, to my understanding the Act released on Early Access will be 100% complete and off beta, usually games on early access are not that polished but cut in half, but since the game when finalized is only supposed to be sold whole, there’s still no reason to review half of it.
  9. More specifically I was using my own model for success or failure, which is why you misunderstood me a bit. For me running a business like a fly, that tries to stay alive long enough so it can make more flies is not sustainable, because one of those days, a swatter will get you before you get to lay your eggs, and that will be the end if your little fly legacy. I just realized, this analogy may sound a bit derogatory, that’s not my intent I’m mostly using it because of a fly’s short lifespan. I don’t really know (or care, to be fair) enough about DF and all the things that go in the background, they could be happy if they just make a dime out of this, which is why I said for me personally it would be a failure to invest 6 mil into something (regardless of the source of the funds) and not see a return. Beyond my personal view, it would be a failure in an objective business sense. Yes I understand that, I don’t think that DF is composed of money making robots, but when it comes down to it, when you have to choose between putting food on the table or your artistic conviction you’re going to go with the food. This KS project was a tremendous opportunity for DF to grow, they already squandered part of it by not limiting the budget to what they initially got, if they limit the games appeal to a niche audience, they are going to hurt themselves even more, bottomline-wise. Which brings me back to my point that's started this money saga, which to say that this game was designed with the casual tablet market in mind first, and everything else second. So we won’t argue about this again, that is my supposition from what I gathered from basically day one, it doesn’t mean I’m right (god I hope I’m wrong). Either way, the game is finally close to release and I can only hope for two things, that it was worth the investment, and that it ends up a success, no matter how you want to define that success.
  10. They need to recoup their own 3 million investment, our money is not a recoup obviously, though I mixed it together for simplicity in my post. But the way I mean it, is that it would be nice, if they at least made as much money from this game from pure profits as much as we gave to them to make it in the first place. Assuming this game makes 3 million dollars worth for sales, that’s 3 million in DF bank, personally I would still consider the game a failure after this, because if it wasn’t for the Kickstarter freebie so to speak, I would have made back half my money, and that’s just not good business. With the Kickstarter money I just made my investment back, that’s still a failure. since I started at 0 and ended up at 0. You seem to think that because a publisher is not involved they don’t need to make back their own money or something? Those 3 million wherever they came from could be a +3 in their pocket, that’s profit lost, they need to make it back. The average traditional non-casual adventure game makes 500k sales, maybe a million in profits (more realistically less) and is considered a success, but then again the average adventure game does not cost 6 million to make. The old school adventure audience is simply not enough to recoup their own 3 mil, particularly when you consider that they are a big part of the other half of their budget. To simplify, you can’t spend 6 mil on a project and not make at least more than 6 back, regardless from where some of that money came from, from a business perspective that’s just bad. No, they like to make money so they can buy cars, rubik cubes and put their kids through college like everybody else. That’s not me being judgmental, but a universal fact, you seem to have romanticized DF as some kind of entity that only exists to make games. It exists to make money, games are the conduit.
  11. I have to make another clarification. I liked Machinarium, for what it was. And I have no problem with casual adventures, some of them can be fun in their limited way. And I think all points have being made on how one-click can, or not be complex. I think what some people may be missing here is Broken Age’s existence as a product that needs to be sold beyond its creative merits. DF need to make back the 6 mil they poured into this one (half of those our money) and selling this game to the old school adventure fanbase, which most has probably already backed the game, is not how you do that. And is generally more likely to sell a casual game, to a casual audience, than do the daring thing and try to sell an old school game to a casual audience, when they’ve shown (repeatedly) that they don’t bite. Either way, the game is coming out soon now, and the beta even sooner, we’ll know how it turns out, which is why all this discussion is moot.
  12. Just to clear something about Grim Fandango, and that’s why I didn’t want to open this can of worms. I like the game, is a good adventure game, great even. I just don’t think is the BEST GAME EVA like some people do and I’m not as forgiving of it’s two major flaws, make it one, I could live with the camera. Particularly when I know when the controls were the way they were for misguided marketing reasons, which is also what I think is happening with Broken Age and the one click controls (might not be misguided if the game actually sells). And when I say is not complex I mean compared to it’s contemporaries, not compared to the absolute minimum comparison (let’s say a hidden object game). And since we talking about verbs, I never expected this game to have the same verb count that DoTT did or any games of that era. I expected a minimum of 3, which let’s face it, by themselves are not that complex to implement or make the game that much harder, but they do add variety if nothing else. But what I didn’t expect, is to do away with the look verb (if that indeed is the case). Now you see this is how you and me think differently, and you say you understand but I don’t think you do. You remember the 10 years Tim was making games at Lucas Arts I remember the 15 years he wasn’t. You see him wanting to make games for old school adventure fans, I see him name dropping Machinarium and Sword and Sworcery instead of any of the complex recent adventures. Maybe is the eternal cynic in me, but at the end of the day neither of those things is empirical data, but more of an interpretation of events, humans are not machines. Tim does not have the magic recipe to good games, or good adventure games even if he made 100 games like that beforehand, no human does, every time, I will judge every game separately, success of the past has gained him my attention, that’s why I’m here right now when I could very well be elsewhere along with my money, but it only goes so far. And what people say and what people do, are two entirely different things. That does not mean that I don’t necessarily believe Tim, or other developers for that matter, but when a man says one thing and in practice I see another thing I tend to believe the thing, things don’t lie, they just are. You may not realize this, but Tim may have designed more adventure games than I ever will (a total of 0) but I have played more adventure games than he has ever played, and probably so have you and most of us ‘old school’ adventure game fans. I do not claim to know how to design an adventure game, I claim to know what I want from the ones I play, which is long and challenging adventures and not walks in the park. What I'll end up getting remains to be seen, I just don't want to feel bitter and mislead at the end of this journey, hopefully that won't be the case, one-click interface or not.
  13. *Sigh* You seem not to understand one very important thing. I don’t have this unbelievable faith you have in DF or in Tim personally. My faith goes as far as giving them a bunch of money two years in advance. Which is a lot more than I’d do for most developers, heck, most human beings. From that point on is up to them to prove that they deserve my faith. So I look at empirical data until I receive the fruit of my dollar and their creative loins. And a one-click interface does not bode well for what I expected I’d get from the game when they told me an ‘old school adventure’. That doesn’t mean that the game won’t be complex, that doesn’t mean that I won’t enjoy the game even if its simplistic as a baby pacifier. What it does mean is that when a mother is talking about her child and how special it is, I pay no heed. What I actually do, is examine the child and see for myself, and so far I haven’t seen much of that pesky toddler but from what I have seen of him, I formed an opinion. Which may not be correct, I never claimed it was. But until I do get to see the whole kid, crawling in front of me and calling me ‘dada’ I will reserve that opinion, because it may turn out, the kid was somebody elses. I’ve been following the game industry closely for so long now I have been fed so much PR bs, I make no exceptions, I look at games, screenshots and video’s, not people talk. As far as Grim Fandango, goes, as someone who claims to know about puzzle design you should know, why the camera and controls affect puzzle complexity? It is rather obvious, I’m too tired to go on depth right now but think? How is a puzzle not more complex when the way to its solution is obscured both by view and movement? And if you are really set on an example of a one-click game that is complex simply find one than break other games apart, GF was not a single verb game, the scythe is pretty much a verb by itself in the guise of an inventory item, and is used for many puzzles..And if you haven’t found one already it kind of proves my point, too bad my point is irrelevant at the end of the day. I should do baby analogies more often.
  14. I do not think it will be complex I didn’t say it is not possible to be complex. What part of the “I’m open to the idea that it’s not going to be simplistic” you didn’t get? When Jules Verne wrote From the Earth to the Moon, nobody thought that the moon landing was really possible, because there was no precedent for it. As we all know now, it is possible, is been done, in practice. Right now Broken Age’s complexity (or lack thereof) is a theory, we haven’t played the game yet, we don’t know, either way. What we do know, is that it has a one-click interface, and no matter how you want to spin it, they tend to be simplistic. I didn’t want to say it on my previous reply, but I will say it now. Grim Fandango was not a complex adventure game. It is not obviously simplistic as Machinarum or any of the one-click sort, but is also not the bastion of adventure game complexity even among the Lucas Arts games. The most difficult thing about that game was struggling with its static camera angles, and is awful controls. Pick a better example. Or better yet don’t. Broken Age is simple, or is not, Broken Age is complex or is not. Regardless of the one-click interface. I choose to interpret the one-click design as a sign of simplicity, you choose not to. It doesn’t matter. It is what it is, and it could be different for each of us given how you seem to find Grim Fandango so complex. I never said it can’t be complex, what I am saying that designing a one-click interface and making every puzzle complex is pretty hard (you did one, try doing 50 and playtesting them with me), and rather unlikely to be the case given precedent. At the end of the day is all about math, you have 3 inventory items 1 verb 7 hotspots, you add 2 more verbs the combinations just multiplied. Most importantly this game is marketed to the casual audience, for anyone with eyesight to see, why in gods name would they try to sell a complex adventure game to them? You know which were the last adventure games to receive casual success? Machinarium and The Walking Dead. I do not want to go in one of those long inane arguments we used to have, about nothing. So let’s agree to disagree and move on with our lives, you go on defending DF when it doesn’t need defending in other threads, and I’ll go on playing games.
  15. To be fair, I’m open to the idea that it’s not going to be simplistic. I just go by experience, I haven’t played a complex one-click adventure game, this is a one-click adventure game, is simple deductive reasoning. I have no reason to think a one-click adventure game will be complex, they mostly exist for playing on a tablet where working with a verb coin can be difficult. I also think about the business realities behind such a design choice, casual market = millions, old school adventure fans 100k. When Act 1 comes out and I actually play the game I will know for sure, so I offer an opinion based on the current data available to me. I would like to offer a more complete opinion but the game so far has been play-tested only by the press and by some backers on a limited event.
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