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Greg Rice

Backer Beta Coming TOMORROW!

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So its still nothing else then betrayal. And folks … learn to read! Cause if you have already learned to read, then you would know that Steam is just money for getting absolutely nothing. And therefor being a Steam customer is just a proof of a missing brain.

Uh huh...

do tell how my library of 200 games is getting nothing, Mr Troll...

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I think almost everyone upset about the Steam-only DRM would be would be happy to admit that this is indeed a beta right up until the point that they place the product up for sale on Steam. Even then one could make the case that this is still a beta if it were going up on Steam early access.

It isn't though. It's going up on Steam as a full product which they don't intend to change in any major way from that point forward (according to the last episode of the documentary if I remember correctly). Later Act 2 will be released, effectively in the form of a (very substantial) free DLC.

I can't imagine a reason why Double Fine couldn't release a DRM-free version of Act 1 along with its debut on the Steam store or shortly thereafter. It would certainly make a lot of their fans very happy.

Exactly, it's a full release of a 2 part game, like broken sword did, and the update clearly states that the DRM-free release will be with the episode 2 only.

I agree that steam is more convenient to fix bugs for the first weeks, there are developpers who wait a few weeks before releasing DRM-free versions to have time to fix things easily before with steam update system, and it's fine as long as we're aware of this. But it's not the case here, the update clearly says that there will be no DRM-free release of the episode 1, beta or not, and we were never told about this until now, that's why we're disappointed.

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Read the EULA, fanboy. They could and will cancel your subscription (hey, thats Steam. Its no software buying platform. Its just a subscription service) and any point and without any reason. And they doing that a few thousand times a year. So … no you dont get anything. You were just brainless enough to pay $ 200 for getting nothing. And BTW They already changed their EULA dramatically. and if you would agree to any change they ever release …. then your subsription is gone forever. And with it all games and all your money. And BTW Most real distribution platforms like GoG give you the full product, which you own then.

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Ah, I see. Since absolutely everyone could already buy it from the very end of Kickstarter and up until very recently (till december 2013 or so) via slacker backer page, that surely must mean the game was out of beta and released two years ago.

You know perfectly well what I meant, so this applies:

appear pedantic and self-opinionated

Anyway, I never said anything about "betrayal". It's a certain annoyance if it stays the way it is, but I have better things to do than to feel "betrayed" by a video game. You'll have to look for others to spar with. I merely pointed out the obvious, and that's all. Dito @Bidiot Bales.

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Do point this out clearly: This is betrayal. I paid for a DRM free version. Im not stupid enough to install the DRM shit Steam on any of my PCs. So either you release the DRM free version now or I request my money back. Cant believe what a horrible case of betrayal I felt in. You are the worst developers I ever supported and from now on i never will support developers again before they release a complete product.

Step 1: Download Steam

Step 2: Install Broken Age

Step 3: Delete Steam

Step 4: Enjoy your DRM-free game!

Unless I missed something, there has been no confirmation that that will work. Some Double Fine games require Steam to be running, some don't. I don't know how that works in Linux. (I'm assuming that most of the people complaining about Steam DRM use Linux)

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@Bidiot Bales, there is no need to clear up anything. @Greg posted earlier that the plan is to have Act I only on Steam -- during the Beta, after the Beta -- and release the entire game DRM-free. That's as clear as can be. I just happen to hope they end up changing that plan -- it's not as if they couldn't do that anytime they wanted.

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I agree that all the backers crying 'betrayal' are overreacting. It's not like Double Fine is going to force you to buy a lifetime subscription to SecuROM or anything.

That said, when I first backed Broken Age nearly a year ago, I was perfectly happy with 'Steam-only beta, DRM-free release' because I assumed the beta would be a couple of weeks or a month at most, and then I could play the game DRM-free when it was fresh and new and people were talking about it. Now apparently the story is that Act 1 is Steam-only, beta and final, and the DRM-free release is going to be six months away. I've been watching the documentary episodes and reading the updates and feeling the love, and now I get to choose between shutting myself in a box for six months to avoid spoilers, or grabbing that Steam key and having fun while feeling just a bit dirty inside.

That's not betrayal, but it is... disappointing.

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You bought the game. Wont matter how the developer rename it. Therefor you cant change any contract you make. Woint matter if the developer rename it or split the product. You are getting the product like anyone else. And anyone getting now the first half of the game. Therefor you getting it too. And according to your buyers contract, which clearly stated it DRM free. And no, there is no way to penalize early customers.

And BTW Not the videogame betrays you. The software company Double Fine does! and thats real life. Or do you like to getting betrayed there form other companies?

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Read the EULA, fanboy. They could and will cancel your subscription (hey, thats Steam. Its no software buying platform. Its just a subscription service) and any point and without any reason. And they doing that a few thousand times a year. So … no you dont get anything. You were just brainless enough to pay $ 200 for getting nothing. And BTW They already changed their EULA dramatically. and if you would agree to any change they ever release …. then your subsription is gone forever. And with it all games and all your money. And BTW Most real distribution platforms like GoG give you the full product, which you own then.

I've read the EULA, I'm perfectly aware of this, it's just a good service and it sure as hell won't go kaput any time soon. I'm not obsessed with video games and I don't really care if they cancel my 'subscription'... they're just games.

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Since I was the first one to use the word betrayal (which, incidentally, I did qualify by saying "not to sound melodramatic") I'd like to make it clear that I didn't choose the word to be dramatic. There simply isn't a less dramatic word or phrase with quite the same meaning. If anyone would like to nominate a new word that'd be great. :)

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I agree that all the backers crying 'betrayal' are overreacting. It's not like Double Fine is going to force you to buy a lifetime subscription to SecuROM or anything.

That said, when I first backed Broken Age nearly a year ago, I was perfectly happy with 'Steam-only beta, DRM-free release' because I assumed the beta would be a couple of weeks or a month at most, and then I could play the game DRM-free when it was fresh and new and people were talking about it. Now apparently the story is that Act 1 is Steam-only, beta and final, and the DRM-free release is going to be six months away. I've been watching the documentary episodes and reading the updates and feeling the love, and now I get to choose between shutting myself in a box for six months to avoid spoilers, or grabbing that Steam key and having fun while feeling just a bit dirty inside.

That's not betrayal, but it is... disappointing.

Name it by its name: You bought something and now you dont get the final product the way it were announced. Thats simply betrayal. Act responsible and name the things with their names.

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Read the EULA, fanboy. They could and will cancel your subscription (hey, thats Steam. Its no software buying platform. Its just a subscription service) and any point and without any reason. And they doing that a few thousand times a year. So … no you dont get anything. You were just brainless enough to pay $ 200 for getting nothing. And BTW They already changed their EULA dramatically. and if you would agree to any change they ever release …. then your subsription is gone forever. And with it all games and all your money. And BTW Most real distribution platforms like GoG give you the full product, which you own then.

And if Valve takes away your Steam account that only has Broken Age on it, you'll still be able to download it DRM-free when the full game is released.

I can understand why someone may not want a game to be Steam-only. But I don't understand why they'd care if they get both a DRM-free copy and a Steam copy, even if they have to wait a few months for the DRM-free version.

I do think DF should release a direct-download version of Act 1, but I don't see why it's a big deal if they don't.

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So its still nothing else then betrayal. And folks … learn to read! Cause if you have already learned to read, then you would know that Steam is just money for getting absolutely nothing. And therefor being a Steam customer is just a proof of a missing brain.

And BTW There is no difference in downloading updates by the client or that they are downloaded by Steam. Take a look at Minecraft or most other independent development. There is no point at all to betray paying customers.

Steam gets them access to Steam's infrastructure and Content Delivery Network. Double Fine is not Google, it doesn't have resources to host and constantly update the whole game distribution itself. Even if they bit the bullet and spent additional money distributing game through Amazon S3 - they would not get promotion and additional customers Steam gets them. Promotion and customers was the main reason for the split, and means DF would get additional funds to finish Act 2.

No one asks for your money. Not Steam, not Double Fine. No one asks you to be Steams customer. You really should look at 4 step plan Bidiot Bales offered you - when a game on steam doesn't use DRM steam acts only as a download manager that keeps it updated. You DON'T need steam to play the game, you can delete it right after it finished downloading (though you have to take care not to delete Broken Age as well).

You know perfectly well what I meant, so this applies:
appear pedantic and self-opinionated

Anyway, I never said anything about "betrayal".

No, I honestly don't get then what are you talking about. I can't read your thoughts, I was answering the post you actually made, not the one you had in mind. If that makes me pedantic in your eyes - oh well.

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Read the EULA, fanboy. They could and will cancel your subscription (hey, thats Steam. Its no software buying platform. Its just a subscription service) and any point and without any reason. And they doing that a few thousand times a year. So … no you dont get anything. You were just brainless enough to pay $ 200 for getting nothing. And BTW They already changed their EULA dramatically. and if you would agree to any change they ever release …. then your subsription is gone forever. And with it all games and all your money. And BTW Most real distribution platforms like GoG give you the full product, which you own then.

I've read the EULA, I'm perfectly aware of this, it's just a good service and it sure as hell won't go kaput any time soon. I'm not obsessed with video games and I don't really care if they cancel my 'subscription'... they're just games.

So you like to pay for nothing. That was my whole point.

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Read the EULA, fanboy. They could and will cancel your subscription (hey, thats Steam. Its no software buying platform. Its just a subscription service) and any point and without any reason. And they doing that a few thousand times a year. So … no you dont get anything. You were just brainless enough to pay $ 200 for getting nothing. And BTW They already changed their EULA dramatically. and if you would agree to any change they ever release …. then your subsription is gone forever. And with it all games and all your money. And BTW Most real distribution platforms like GoG give you the full product, which you own then.

And if Valve takes away your Steam account that only has Broken Age on it, you'll still be able to download it DRM-free when the full game is released.

I can understand why someone may not want a game to be Steam-only. But I don't understand why they'd care if they get both a DRM-free copy and a Steam copy, even if they have to wait a few months for the DRM-free version.

I do think DF should release a direct-download version of Act 1, but I don't see why it's a big deal if they don't.

Cause the Steam client is also spyware. thats no secret at all. They declare that by searching for bad software. But at the end of the day …. its simple the spyware as Origin and others.

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RE: Betrayal

Quote from Kickstarter page: "The finished game in all of its awesome glory DRM free on PC, Mac, and Linux, or via Steam for PC and Mac, exclusive access to the Beta on Steam, access to the video series, and access the private discussion community."

So yeah, the game's not finished yet, we're lucky to even be getting the first Act right now!

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@MacCave, I have reached a stage in life where my time is too valuable to spent it outraged/betrayed/anygargantuanfeeling over this or that. It's the way it is, and according to how it's handled, I'm going to react next time I have to decide whether to back DF or not. That's really all there is. I don't need to make a dramatic scene out of it, and discussing it with other users is strictly speaking pointless too, considering they aren't the ones who I'd have to convince.

I assume DF has by now read enough posts and knows not everyone is happy. Either they do something about it, or they don't.

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Later Act 2 will be released, effectively in the form of a (very substantial) free DLC.

Exciting to play part 1! The graphics look more amazing every video I watch of it. Regarding the quote above, is part 2 going to be longer than part 1 (I must have missed that in the documentary)?

Cheers! :D

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There is no announcement, that Broken Age Act 1 is free of DRM. So why does some users here claim it that way? If it contains SteamWorks (and it does that most likely) then its DRM plagued.

And BTW Releasing the update to your website and Steam at the same time isnt any problem at all. All the other companies out there doing it that way. And just Double Fine isnt able to handle it that way? And BTW Thats their problem. If they werent able to handle it, they shouldnt have bought DRM free versions.Now its their duty to offer them. Otherwise its betrayal of the paying customers.

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Read the EULA, fanboy. They could and will cancel your subscription (hey, thats Steam. Its no software buying platform. Its just a subscription service) and any point and without any reason. And they doing that a few thousand times a year. So … no you dont get anything. You were just brainless enough to pay $ 200 for getting nothing. And BTW They already changed their EULA dramatically. and if you would agree to any change they ever release …. then your subsription is gone forever. And with it all games and all your money. And BTW Most real distribution platforms like GoG give you the full product, which you own then.

I've read the EULA, I'm perfectly aware of this, it's just a good service and it sure as hell won't go kaput any time soon. I'm not obsessed with video games and I don't really care if they cancel my 'subscription'... they're just games.

So you like to pay for nothing. That was my whole point.

Sure, I like to pay for nothing. Now if you'd excuse me... [plays Steam games all night]

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Later Act 2 will be released, effectively in the form of a (very substantial) free DLC.

Exciting to play part 1! The graphics look more amazing every video I watch of it. Regarding the quote above, is part 2 going to be longer than part 1 (I must have missed that in the documentary)?

Cheers! :D

Tim has said on Twitter that he expects both acts to be about equal in length, though he's not certain about that since act 2 is still under development.

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enigma, you are correct about this. I will never ever again support DF. But we have to make sure, that the betrayal stops at some point. This si disgusting. You pay for something. and then the company decides, that you arent able to get the released and full product the way both of you agreed to get it. There never was such a case of betrayal like this one. With EA or Valve … you know what you get … nothing. But DoubeFine simply lied about the DRM free version which you will get when any product is released. And this is a complete new dimension at customer betrayal. thats why im so angry about this illegal action.

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Sure, I like to pay for nothing. Now if you'd excuse me... [plays Steam games all night]

Til the change the EULA again and they go too far even for your limited needs :) . Then you play nothing at all.

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Sure, I like to pay for nothing. Now if you'd excuse me... [plays Steam games all night]

Til the change the EULA again and they o too far even for your limited requests :) . Then you play nothing at all.

Then I'll get a new hobby... Ice Skating maybe... :)

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There is no announcement, that Broken Age Act 1 is free of DRM. So why does some users here claim it that way? If it contains SteamWorks (and it does that most likely) then its DRM plagued.

And BTW Releasing the update to your website and Steam at the same time isnt any problem at all. All the other companies out there doing it that way. And just Double Fine isnt able to handle it that way? And BTW Thats their problem. If they werent able to handle it, they shouldnt have bought DRM free versions.Now its their duty to offer them. Otherwise its betrayal of the paying customers.

If Double Fine pays for CDN themselves they pay money for pushing every tiny update to you. They have to hire system administrators to manage their server instances. They have to write or integrate software updater into the game. They have to monitor all issues with this system 24/7. Even ridiculously enormous publishers like EA and Ubisoft often fail miserably at doing this, can you imagine what kind of problems tiny Double Fine can run into??

They NEED Steam anyway - to sell this pre-release or beta or part 1 or whatever, so they can finish the game that you pledged for.

Do you want them to take money and programmer's time away from completing and improving the game, and instead waste it duplicating something they already have?

Edit: oh, I see you are starting to use outright lies

the company decides, that you arent able to get the released and full product the way both of you agreed to get it. There never was such a case of betrayal like this one.

Whether you are trolling or not, there is no point at all in trying to reason with you...

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Hey there!

Big Fan of Tim Shaffer since Full Throttle days. Big Fan of Double Fine since Pcychonauts days.

Backer.

You guys never stop to amaze me here.

So when Broken Age been offered as a KickStarter project - and i knew about it - thanks to my friend/ or was it your web site?

Nevermind.

What i remember is that i did not hesitate much :) And now - i see that you just did what you do - as allways - is in the bestest way possible to expect.

So this project is almost afloat! Gratz!

Are you planning to make more adventure games?

Preparing my wallet here...

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I had fallen behind on the doco episodes over the past few months and quickly marathoned them all day today in preparation (Everything from "Look, The clocks..!" and onward). It's a much different experience watching the episodes immediately rather than in a sort of serialised way.

That aside, I'm super excited for beta tomorrow. It's been a hell of a ride, guys!

Edit: I probably shouldn't touch the whole Steam conversation thing, but the last I heard (which admittedly, was a number of years ago now) they have a contingency plan in place where the Steam related DRM will be deactivated in the event of Valve going under. I think I recall reading that before they became this huge, however.

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