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Greg Rice

Backer Beta Coming TOMORROW!

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@MacCave, I have reached a stage in life where my time is too valuable to spent it outraged/betrayed/anygargantuanfeeling over this or that. It's the way it is, and according to how it's handled, I'm going to react next time I have to decide whether to back DF or not. That's really all there is. I don't need to make a dramatic scene out of it, and discussing it with other users is strictly speaking pointless too, considering they aren't the ones who I'd have to convince.

I assume DF has by now read enough posts and knows not everyone is happy. Either they do something about it, or they don't.

Yeah, same here. I don't see the point in going into some kind of blind rage right now, but this will surely affect my decisions in the future. I wouldn't even care at all, if the rest of the documentary was kept free of spoilers..

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Hahahhaah the Internet never disappoints :D Even in an event like Double Fine and Tim Schäfer releasing a POINT&CLICK; ADVENTURE GAME they find something negative to bitch about, its unbelievable. I hope everybody here who says stuff like "betrayal" because they cant read will be fired as a backer, so us normal people can enjoy the game in peace :D

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Hahahhaah the Internet never disappoints :D Even in an event like Double Fine and Tim Schäfer releasing a POINT&CLICK; ADVENTURE GAME they find something negative to bitch about, its unbelievable. I hope everybody here who says stuff like "betrayal" because they cant read will be fired as a backer, so us normal people can enjoy the game in peace :D

Most anti-DRM people here are calmly and sincerely expressing their feelings. It seems to me you're being just a bit churlish.

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enigma, you are correct about this. I will never ever again support DF. But we have to make sure, that the betrayal stops at some point. This si disgusting. You pay for something. and then the company decides, that you arent able to get the released and full product the way both of you agreed to get it. There never was such a case of betrayal like this one. With EA or Valve … you know what you get … nothing. But DoubeFine simply lied about the DRM free version which you will get when any product is released. And this is a complete new dimension at customer betrayal. thats why im so angry about this illegal action.

Betrayal!

Angst!

Outrage!

These are just a few of the feelings out-poured from anonymous internet users after Double Fine Productions slaughtered their hopes and dreams, leaving these once noble forumites gasping for breath in a sea of deception, lies and hatred. The Double Fine crew have teamed up with evil mega-corporation Valve Software to hack these poor, innocent civilian's computers using the abominable monster known only as 'Steam'; stealing their information and selling it to the US government. The Double Fine crew have mistreated, abused and committed heinous acts of mental torture on these poor people, as well as tearing out their soul and feeding it to the other abominable monster in the building, known only as 'Tim'.

We must STOP this alien menace before it's too late. Cease all contact with these demons. Lock up your daughters, hide in the cellar and pray to your god that you will stay safe from these cruel and heartless bastards.

Good luck, though we're scraping the bottom of the luck barrel right now...

-Bales

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Oh gosh. I shouldn't have started reading the thread after posting my comment. Guys, I know it seems unfair, but I don't think Kickstarter works the way you think it does. Doublefine is doing everything they need to and, really, everything I expect from them.

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...And therefor being a Steam customer is just a proof of a missing brain...
...You were just brainless enough to pay $ 200 for getting nothing...

Dude, you have your opinions, but it's not very polite to say such things. As a Steam customer myself, I hope you've just typed it in rage, not really mean it.

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minor octopus, so placing a .dmg and .zip on a web site is now some huge problem. Do you have no idea at all about development? And DoubleFine sold it that way. Therefor its their problem.

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bidiot, you paid for a product. You were ven kind enoguh to support the company as early customer. But all you get is that the company doesnt deliver to you, when the product is released. Thats the definition of betrayal. Got it? No emotion, no rocket science. Something even Steam users could follow.

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bidiot, you paid for a product. You were ven kind enoguh to support the company as early customer. But all you get is that the company doesnt deliver to you, when the product is released. Thats the definition of betrayal. Got it? No emotion, no rocket science. Something even Steam users could follow.

No, you stupid. You paid for DRM free full version and Beta on steam. Stop being and idiot and learn to read...

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@EssThree, KS is working exactly the way I think it does. I hand over money without knowing what I get or even if I get something. I'm not buying, I'm donating.

But the flip side of this is that DF should know how KS works: The more you do to keep your Backers happy, the better for you (and your potential prospects of getting them to back again).

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bidiot, you paid for a product. You were ven kind enoguh to support the company as early customer. But all you get is that the company doesnt deliver to you, when the product is released. Thats the definition of betrayal. Got it? No emotion, no rocket science. Something even Steam users could follow.

Oh they bloody well delivered: http://doublefine.com/dfa/

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Man, the red mist has descended upon this thread. I would imagine that we will get our hands on a DRM free version of Act 1. Keep in mind that this is not the finished product but a beta, and beta code needs protecting.

Interesting to see that anti-Steam sentiment still exists though. Thought maybe I was the only one who still felt uneasy about the whole deal (regardless of owning about 300 Steam games).

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Read the EULA, fanboy. They could and will cancel your subscription (hey, thats Steam. Its no software buying platform. Its just a subscription service) and any point and without any reason. And they doing that a few thousand times a year. So … no you dont get anything. You were just brainless enough to pay $ 200 for getting nothing. And BTW They already changed their EULA dramatically. and if you would agree to any change they ever release …. then your subsription is gone forever. And with it all games and all your money. And BTW Most real distribution platforms like GoG give you the full product, which you own then.

I've read the EULA, I'm perfectly aware of this, it's just a good service and it sure as hell won't go kaput any time soon. I'm not obsessed with video games and I don't really care if they cancel my 'subscription'... they're just games.

So you like to pay for nothing. That was my whole point.

Woah there buddy, I can just enable OFFLINE mode on Steam anytime and never have to login again. Download I games you buy, back them up on another drive, and I don't need to download them more than once. Also, Valve have never made it a secret that if they were to close up shop (unlikely), then they could enable their players to unlock their account permanently to play the games they bought on their computer without the online service.

You can get banned due to cheating, but you'll still be able to play your games, just not use the multiplayer with any game that uses VAC. Also, disabled accounts are a RARE occurrence and only happen in cases of obvious fraud, attempt to evade laws, and hacking the service to get free games.

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Man, the red mist has descended upon this thread. I would imagine that we will get our hands on a DRM free version of Act 1. Keep in mind that this is not the finished product but a beta, and beta code needs protecting.

Interesting to see that anti-Steam sentiment still exists though. Thought maybe I was the only one who still felt uneasy about the whole deal (regardless of owning about 300 Steam games).

its just a bunch of self-obsessed hippies who dont know whats important in the world and what isnt...

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I honestly don't see why there is such an aversion to Steam on here.

You do know that Steam is just a storefront right? Steam itself is not DRM.

Steamworks CEG on the other hand is DRM, but it is not required for a developer to utilize the CEG. In fact, there are a lot of games that don't make use of the CEG and after you buy the game on Steam you can move it out of the folder, delete Steam, and then enjoy the game without any hassles.

I don't know how DF is going to handle it, but if they choose to not go the CEG route they can kill two birds with one stone: honor purchases via Steam and provide DRM-free copies.

So here's hoping they elect to do that. I think it would win them a lot of praise, especially from GNU/Linux users who want their freedom respected.

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Man, the red mist has descended upon this thread. I would imagine that we will get our hands on a DRM free version of Act 1. Keep in mind that this is not the finished product but a beta, and beta code needs protecting.

Interesting to see that anti-Steam sentiment still exists though. Thought maybe I was the only one who still felt uneasy about the whole deal (regardless of owning about 300 Steam games).

its just a bunch of self-obsessed hippies who dont know whats important in the world and what isnt...

Hey, if they don't want to use a service that's their business. What I do object to is cries of 'betrayal' and the like when never once was it implied that backers get to wrest control of DF's release plan for the game. They've decided this will be the best way to roll out the release of the game and while it's perfectly fine to register dissatisfaction they are certainly not taking away anything that was promised during the kickstarter campaign by choosing to release one of the promised versions of the game at a different time.

So sure, it's fine for people to say they really think it would be fairer if there's any way they can release the DRM free version at the same time it goes up on the Steam Store (after the beta), but let's not get carried away.

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I honestly don't see why there is such an aversion to Steam on here.

You do know that Steam is just a storefront right? Steam itself is not DRM.

Steamworks CEG on the other hand is DRM, but it is not required for a developer to utilize the CEG. In fact, there are a lot of games that don't make use of the CEG and after you buy the game on Steam you can move it out of the folder, delete Steam, and then enjoy the game without any hassles.

I don't know how DF is going to handle it, but if they choose to not go the CEG route they can kill two birds with one stone: honor purchases via Steam and provide DRM-free copies.

So here's hoping they elect to do that. I think it would win them a lot of praise, especially from GNU/Linux users who want their freedom respected.

Self-Published DF games don't use the CEG thing I think. The rest are probably up to the publisher.

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Self-Published DF games don't use the CEG thing I think. The rest are probably up to the publisher.

The Steam version of Psychonauts uses a "smart" executable that launches with Steamworks if Steam is running (so you get cloud saves, achievements, etc), and launches DRM-free if Steam is not (and its directory could be moved to a different computer with no internet and no Steam installed and it'd still run just fine), which I think is clever and I wish more games worked like that. Not sure about DF's other self-published games.

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Self-Published DF games don't use the CEG thing I think. The rest are probably up to the publisher.

The Steam version of Psychonauts uses a "smart" executable that launches with Steamworks if Steam is running (so you get cloud saves, achievements, etc), and launches DRM-free if Steam is not (and its directory could be moved to a different computer with no internet and no Steam installed and it'd still run just fine), which I think is clever and I wish more games worked like that. Not sure about DF's other self-published games.

That's actually really awesome! I seriously hope they elect to use this method for Broken Age as well.

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Self-Published DF games don't use the CEG thing I think. The rest are probably up to the publisher.

The Steam version of Psychonauts uses a "smart" executable that launches with Steamworks if Steam is running (so you get cloud saves, achievements, etc), and launches DRM-free if Steam is not (and its directory could be moved to a different computer with no internet and no Steam installed and it'd still run just fine), which I think is clever and I wish more games worked like that. Not sure about DF's other self-published games.

That's actually really awesome! I seriously hope they elect to use this method for Broken Age as well.

Better than having Steamworks wedged into it. We'll likely have multiple ways of downloading the game though, no? Similar to the way Humble Bundles give you DRM free downloads as well as Steam/Origin/Desura keys.

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@EssThree, KS is working exactly the way I think it does. I hand over money without knowing what I get or even if I get something. I'm not buying, I'm donating.

But the flip side of this is that DF should know how KS works: The more you do to keep your Backers happy, the better for you (and your potential prospects of getting them to back again).

That's cool. It's just... I thought we were beyond the point where people believe Kickstarter is some kind of preorder service. I wasn't necessarily speaking toward you :)

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Better than having Steamworks wedged into it. We'll likely have multiple ways of downloading the game though, no? Similar to the way Humble Bundles give you DRM free downloads as well as Steam/Origin/Desura keys.

You can already redeem Broken Age on Humble, though there's no Steam keys on it just yet. That Humble page will eventually host a DRM-free copy of the game.

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The Spacebase DF-9 alpha is DRM-free and only available on Steam...

Is a DRM-free build of this game available?

The Steam Alpha build is actually DRM-free. It downloads through Steam of course but you don’t need to be running Steam to run the game. In this case Steam serves purely as a download and auto-patching mechanism, not as a DRM solution. (We have actually used Steam in this way for a number of our games.)

...so I see no reason to expect that BA will include DRM.

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Any word on if streaming the game is allowed? I assume streaming the game up to the spoiler point is fine?

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Any word on if streaming the game is allowed? I assume streaming the game up to the spoiler point is fine?

Sounds like livestreaming and let's playing is probably fine so long as you cut off at the point they've specified. Might want to await confirmation of that, though!

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