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hipposexxxy

to Steam or not to Steam ? DRM is the question

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Good to know! It'd be a neat feature (and one that would appease ChristianST a little) if you could backup any version of the game (Windows, Mac, Linux) on any of those three supported platforms.

Also, in response to ChristianST about games coming preinstalled in Steam, I don't agree with that. Like I said, it's like unzipping an archive. It's not "preinstalled" because it doesn't need to be "installed". But I think you're whole complaint is that you can't take different versions from Steam and put it on other OS's, which is something different. I see this as a very strange and unusual thing to complain about. Not very many would seem to request such a feature, and again you couldn't even have that from retail games. You usually can't buy a game and expect multiple platforms to be supported in the one box from the same disc (a few exceptions, some of the Myst games and Myst clones allowed you to I recall, but few others). That would be something of an extra feature to request from Valve or a developer, but not something to complain about. I don't really follow your analogy of a retail outlet asking for proof that you own a certain platform before buying a game for it. It's more like expecting multiple platform compatibility out of the box. It just doesn't work that way.

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Just to chip in, as far as I know you can easily buy a game on Steam for any supported system from any other system. You just can't download and run a game which doesn't have support for your current system, just like you can't install a PC game on a Linux system off of a disc. But if a game works on multiple systems, you can download it and run it on those systems. Anyway, if you absolutely must download another OS version of a game, you can always run a simple VM to download those versions. Easy for Windows (use Wine) or Linux (it's free) - a little harder for OSX.

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There used to be (probably still is) a list of Steam games on the Steam forum that can be run outside of Steam (doesn't require Steam). But some of them might require other clients instead.

The problem with that list was; many of the games (basically all the non-indies, and then some) used Steam's old form of DRM before the current iteration of CEG. Well, they decided last year to go over and update the security of those games (replace old DRM with current CEG.) Now you need to be logged in to play them. Believe me, I know. KOTOR 1&2, Civilizations 3 and Puzzle Quest 2 got hit on me, and all of a sudden I couldn't play them two weeks after I brought my computer in to put Shadowrun on it. I bought those specifically on Steam just after I found out that its offline mode was buggy so I could play them after it lost my login info. I was pissed.

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Ok, than I'm kinda misinformed about that part, but doesn't change anything for me - (also the argument "because others do so", isn't the strongest one).

It's to protect the intellectual property. Because if you owned the game itelf instead of the license to use it, you would have been entitled to copy, rent, lend and distribute. You could also have taken assets from it (ex. the sprites from a 2D game or the backgrounds) and used them to create and sell another game, thus damaging the rightful creators and profit from their work.

The problem is when companies use that as an excuse to just sell you a "service" and strip you of your rights (like what happened with dragon age 2, where bioware locked out of their game some legitimate customers because of their forum posts).

the eula on the install.

Just nitpicking... the eula is worth, legally speaking, absolutely nothing in many civilized countries.

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He's not here to help. He's here to derail the discussion into poop flinging, which in turn makes all participants look like idiots, in the strange hope that people would leave the thread only with an impression about Steam opposers, yet not about the fans of the service.

I'm here to remind you guys that you have no reading comprehension skills, because what's happening was clearly outlined well in advance, and then laugh at how you inexplicably think Steam is going to eat your children in the night. There's nothing wrong with Steam other than your own demented paranoia that somehow it's an evil plot to rob you and ruin your things. If you really can't handle installing Steam to play half of one game, you're a sad, strange little man.

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you have no reading comprehension skills, [...] what's happening was clearly outlined well in advance [...] you inexplicably think Steam is going to eat your children in the night.

"We guys" at least make an effort at reading comprehension.

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"We guys" at least make an effort at reading comprehension.

Your violent and inexplicable hatred of Steam is well known, Vain. You aren't here for any reason but to toot your "OMG STEAM SUCKS AND IS TAKING OVER THE WORLD AND RUINING PC GAMING" horn, for about the 20,000th time.

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From today's update:

DRM-FREE RELEASE

We always planned for the backer beta to be a Steam-only release, as Steam makes it really easy for us to issue updates and bug fixes that we're confident all players will be able to easily receive—especially when we're managing the game on three platforms simultaneously. We also think Steam provides a great system for seamlessly tying in Act 2 once that's ready to go out.

However, we've also been taking to heart all the feedback from folks who want to download the game in a DRM-free format as soon as possible. So we're getting that prepped! Once we're fully comfortable with the state of the build and have all our ducks in a row, we'll ship that out. We don't have a release date for that just yet, but expect it in the next month or so. Stay tuned!

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I just received the update email with the good news about DRM-free, thank you to the team at double fine, i look forward to playing it !

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I just received the update email with the good news about DRM-free, thank you to the team at double fine, i look forward to playing it !

Thanks! The DRM build was something we were excited about and we've been working hard to figure out all the logistics to get it to you! Hopefully we can deliver it even sooner than promised!

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I just received the update email with the good news about DRM-free, thank you to the team at double fine, i look forward to playing it !

Thanks! The DRM build was something we were excited about and we've been working hard to figure out all the logistics to get it to you! Hopefully we can deliver it even sooner than promised!

Great!

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Thanks for going the extra-mile, Greg -- that was exactly what I hoped you would do. Looking forward to play it :)

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Yeah, have just received the update. Thanks for changing the release plan to include a DRM-free Act 1. :)

I'm not trying to say 'told you so' but ... well, the reason that I trust Double Fine isn't blind faith or wishful thinking, it's because they've consistently gone out of their way for the backers. Anyway, I'm glad you're getting the thing you want soon :)

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Whilst this is good, it's also not good enough.

The way the DFA evolved it was obvious that you need to offer the first part of the game DRM free as well. But if you're doing this right, you offer both the Steam and the DRM version from day 1 on without delaying the DRM version as a second class option.

Otherwise backers who once funded this game and who are interested in a DRM free version are those who can access the game as the last ones and that's really not the way it should be.

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Whilst this is good, it's also not good enough.

The way the DFA evolved it was obvious that you need to offer the first part of the game DRM free as well. But if you're doing this right, you offer both the Steam and the DRM version from day 1 on without delaying the DRM version as a second class option.

Otherwise backers who once funded this game and who are interested in a DRM free version are those who can access the game as the last ones and that's really not the way it should be.

Never happy, are you?

Be glad they didn't ignore the requests.

taumel.

Seriously.

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The project still offers room for improvements on quite some aspects and the way they deal with the DRM free release is one of them.

Feel free to disagree though.

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The project still offers room for improvements on quite some aspects and the way they deal with the DRM free release is one of them.

Feel free to disagree though.

I shall. Also I urge you to start a new thread about the aspects in need of improvement, I'm interested. (Not sarcastic)

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Nope, i voiced my opinion in different threads already, this one is DRM related, therefore it's stated here.

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It's good enough for me. As far as I'm concerned, DF has done a good job responding to backers' concerns, especially at a stressful time like this. Not only the community manager and the producer, but other team members as well.

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Could things have been better? Sure.

But I think under the given circumstances this is a good solution - and better solutions were probably just not possible on such a short time. If we still had some months before public release, then maybe it would be possible. But I think we can't seriously expect DF to have an instant solution.

And at least I think that DF will plan better in the future. And if that is the case, I'm fine with waiting a few weeks. It would still be much better (for all!) if the problem wasn't there in the first place, but that ship has left the bay long ago.

(The only thing that I find a bit nebulous it that ongoing talk about the Beta. Somehow I just read it in a way that Beta=Act 1=Public Release, which doesn't make any sense to me. But I'm just going to pretend that it doesn't mean anything relevant or that I just misunderstands what DF tries to say with that.)

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So the problem is solved? Treating early customers like sh*t is now something you have to thank for? Are the Steam losers here are free of any self-confidence, that you could do with them whatever you like?

The point still is: DF betrayed their customers. Nothing changed about that. The betrayal just became a little bit smaller. And there is not one point to argue bout that. The question is not, how fast could they change to DRM free, but the question why have they tried to betray their paying customers at all? Thats the point. Their never have been a DRM free second strategy at all, cause it was nothing else then betrayal of paying customers.

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I've said over and over, their past statements don't apply to the present scenario that played itself out. There was no betrayal, a new situation asserted itself which required new action and new statements. You can't argue at all that they owed you a DRM free Act 1 anymore than you could argue they didn't owe you a DRM free Act 1. They didn't plan in this new scenario to offer a DRM free Act 1, but they are doing so anyway it's just going to take some time.

Some people just aren't happy with anything. Seriously, it's difficult to find a DRM free solution to this problem and harder to squeeze the logistics into the schedule. Be more understanding. They're accomodating your DRM free lifestyle and philosophy at their own expense.

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Indeed they owe me a DRM free version. That was part of the buyers contract at the time of payment. So it doesnt matter at all what DF thinks. They cant change any conditions after that point in time, cause otherwise the buyers contract isnt valid anymore and they have to return the money. Its really simple. There never was any new scenario. It was a buyers contract, that they deliver DRM free when the game is released. and it was released on January 28th. And we still got nothing hat we paid for.

And DRM free is no esoteric lifestyle. Theres simply no other way to buy games. And it isnt nice from Df to offer a DRM free version, cause instead it was simply part of the reason to give them any money at all. No DRM free, no money. Its that easy. Im not stupid enough to give money for not getting anything at all (like all thos Steam morons).

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