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chapmanb

4 Hours to Complete Act 1... really?!

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I've seen games that cost way more than a few million dollars last way less than 8 hours.

8 hours is a pretty standard length for an adventure game. Maybe it could be elongated with a few more head scratching puzzles, but that's down to the design, not the length itself.

So? Entire Telltale seasons aren't THIS long.

To be fair I'd put a standard Telltale season at just under 10 hours. The nature of the storytelling in those require them to be a bit longer than you'd expect though altogether. There's essentially 5 stories each with a mini-three act structure.

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The Curse of Monkey Island and Grim Fandango were much, much longer and much more difficult. The puzzle this time around were simply too obvious.

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Especially when the Description on Steam says:

A whole bunch of awesome PUZZLES

This one really hard puzzle that you won't get but you'll look it up online and not tell anybody

I'm curious what the really hard puzzle was? Or the multitude of puzzle.

I guess I was expecting puzzles with layers. Not one item to solve one puzzle. They lacked complexity and inter-item manipulations. Example, Monkey Island having to find needle, cork, magnet, water, etc and put them all together to make a compass was not nearly as obvious as using a spoon to eat...

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I guess I was expecting puzzles with layers. Not one item to solve one puzzle. They lacked complexity and inter-item manipulations. Example, Monkey Island having to find needle, cork, magnet, water, etc and put them all together to make a compass was not nearly as obvious as using a spoon to eat...

Probably like 1% actually enjoy puzzles that extreme. I mean sorry that that's you, but still.

I'm super happy with this Act. I'm thrilled actually, having finished it. Makes me feel good to support creative stuff like this.

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100% happy with this act, especially by the end, and while a few harder puzzles in the second act would be welcome, it boggles my mind that someone could play through that first and fail to smell the roses.

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The 2 stories of broken age is not connected but still good
Is this a question or statement? (Not actually sure, given the threads context.)

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Finished it in 3 as well but I really enjoyed myself just want some harder puzzles in the second part since I was not stuck on anything really

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It doesn't compare to playthroughs of, say, Monkey Island games in length, no. Is that because I played the originals when I was much younger and so it took me longer? Maybe.

Does that mean that I think this should compare in length? Not at all.

I'd love for this game to be never ending, but for the first half to last me 4 hours of solid enjoyment ... I'm more than happy with that

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Don't get me wrong, I thought the visuals were compelling, the score is magnificent and the story is awesome! I do not regret buying at all. I guess I overestimated the difficulty and length this game would be. Maybe there will be an option in the final version like in Monkey where you could choose to have the more difficult puzzles.

Truth is, I probably didn't want to stop playing so I got butthurt because 4 hours was a tease ;)

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I beat it in three hours and I also stopped to smell all the roses. I was saddened that it was and easier sort of game, but I also expected that. If the end of Act 1 marks an exact midway point between it and Act 2, I hope that Act 2 has some much stronger puzzles. Either way there's at least the same amount of experience left to the game. I don't regret backing.

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Don't get me wrong, I thought the visuals were compelling, the score is magnificent and the story is awesome! I do not regret buying at all. I guess I overestimated the difficulty and length this game would be. Maybe there will be an option in the final version like in Monkey where you could choose to have the more difficult puzzles.

Truth is, I probably didn't want to stop playing so I got butthurt because 4 hours was a tease ;)

Actually you weren't alone. I posted a separate thread about my disappointment so far. In any Adventure game, you will have groups of people who think it's too hard, and others who think it's too easy. It's hard to hit that sweet spot of just right, so you've satisfied the most and disappointed the least.

But this was the first Kickstarted computer game, based on reviving an Adventure game for those who loved the classics. I would have thought Double Fine would have taken the opportunity to make a game reminiscent of the classics, rather than make a visually stunning game with a thin story and super obvious puzzles. If this had come out in the 90s in the Adventure game heydays, pretty sure no one would remember it. Here's hoping Act 2 kicks it up a few notches.

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One gaming review site on the game said that it was intended to be a "celebration" of the genre rather than a "successor". I rather think this makes sense. The game isn't a masterpiece, but it doesn't have to be. It's not "self-important" (another term the review used). It's simply a stroll through how things used to be, and it was a very enjoyable one. I think it hit a good medium of easy and challenging, bringing groups of people who appreciate both together. I do hope Act 2 is harder, though. ;)

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First - I just want to say (since I haven't said it anywhere else yet) that I absolutely love this game -- it exceeded my expectations. In the beginning I was a bit skeptical about the art-style that was chosen but it made the whole game very unique and I'm totally a fan of it now.

Also - I should probably state that I have yet to finish the game (only played for approx. ~2.5 hours so far), so my impressions are probably relevant to gameplay which is only half-way through.

Now, regarding the issue at hand --- my impression so far regarding the actual gameplay and difficulty level of the puzzles etc. --

I believe I can describe what's causing the "problems" (IMHO):

It's not so much that the puzzles themselves are too easy (perhaps they are) - but rather that there are not enough "red herrings" or things to distract you and lead you in pointless directions. Given a limited set of items, and a (rather) limited set of objects to interact with, it's obvious that the puzzles would be rendered "easy" simply by virtue of them being able to be solved by "brute force" (exhausting all possible combinations, of which there aren't many).

In other words, it's not so much that logic involved in solving the puzzles is too straightforward or obvious (which is not necessarily a bad thing, imho), but the fact that there isn't much around to hold you back from exhausting all your options very quickly.

I believe even the addition of a FEW "useless" items (or items which have uses but don't progress the game but only lead you to exploring the world) would have solved this aspect.

ANOTHER issue that I'm seeing (which probably also adds to the issue of time spent playing) - is that it's too easy to (unintentionally) skip-over pure-story elements (like "useless" dialogues), which serve an important part of creating the game experience.

For example:

############!!!!!!!!!!!!! WARNING: SLIGHT SPOILER AHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!####################

[del]In Vella's first "room", all the interactions you can do with other characters are concentrated in that specific room, and by sheer CHANCE - you can happen to interact with the one object/character that is needed to progress to the next "room", thereby eliminating all the possible interesting/funny dialogues you could have had with the characters in that room... That's a bit of a shame - the way to prevent it is to somewhat HINDER progress by hiding plot-progressing actions behind a "wall" of other interactions (like, having to move to another room first , or having to perform some series of actions - mundane and meaningless as they might be...[/del]

###############################################################

So - to conclude,

It's a combination of the ease of missing out on dialogues/interactions - in combination with lack of distractions/red-herrings etc... which makes the gameplay experience perhaps a bit TOO streamlined...

Those are just my 2 cents

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4 hours? I finished the guy's part in one hour so unless Vella's is much longer then I'm a bit underwhelmed with the length, but the quality? Excellent.

So? Entire Telltale seasons aren't THIS long.

I'm guessing you've played different Telltale games from me? That's about the same length as a Walking Dead/Wolf Among Us episode.

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It's not so much that the puzzles themselves are too easy (perhaps they are) - but rather that there are not enough "red herrings" or things to distract you and lead you in pointless directions. Given a limited set of items, and a (rather) limited set of objects to interact with, it's obvious that the puzzles would be rendered "easy" simply by virtue of them being able to be solved by "brute force" (exhausting all possible combinations, of which there aren't many).
Absolutely this. Not just red herrings, but what we can do with objects. Take for example Full Throttle's pad lock chain puzzle. It's not just a logical leap, it uses a separate target. BA uses huge target zones, the BA style on Full Throttle, the whole wall would be one object then the character would put the lock in the right place. This is a good thing early on (when we are just getting started) but BA didn't really ramp the difficulty up. Although we can't discount the fact that we are adventure game veterans (and I have been playing a lot in SCUMMVM in the last week to get psyched for BA), so things like what to do with the

golden eggs

are going to spring to mind much more readily to us than for a beginner.

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I'm guessing you've played different Telltale games from me? That's about the same length as a Walking Dead/Wolf Among Us episode.

Those are 2 hours max per episode. That's 10 hours total.

That's not my experience, but then I do take my time wandering around exploring the environments and bantering with everyone.

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I'm always sure to do everything in Telltale games. I think the longest I've clocked an episode is 3 hours, and that's only when I get really stuck on a puzzle in Sam & Max or something.

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I'm always sure to do everything in Telltale games. I think the longest I've clocked an episode is 3 hours, and that's only when I get really stuck on a puzzle in Sam & Max or something.

Well I've played the first two episodes on Walking Dead on my PC (completed it all on console) and it's got me clocked in at 8 hours on Steam.

But this is besides the point really, we're talking about the length of Broken Age and whether or not that's alright.

I think it's probably fine.

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First - I just want to say (since I haven't said it anywhere else yet) that I absolutely love this game -- it exceeded my expectations. In the beginning I was a bit skeptical about the art-style that was chosen but it made the whole game very unique and I'm totally a fan of it now.

So - to conclude,

It's a combination of the ease of missing out on dialogues/interactions - in combination with lack of distractions/red-herrings etc... which makes the gameplay experience perhaps a bit TOO streamlined...

Completely agree. The style is super unique and I loved the different settings. I rarely found myself double-clicking to quick skip through the area, as I enjoyed looking at the scenery.

And Red Herrings are exactly what was missing. Things to throw you off would have been good. And it seemed there were less out of the box work arounds. For example (Just from watching the documentary) when Tim Schafer was playing old Point/Click's and they showed the puzzle trying to get into a warehouse but the door continuing to close. Putting the lock on the overhead door and using the chain to climb over the wall was unexpected. BA was missing unexpected solutions.

One gaming review site on the game said that it was intended to be a "celebration" of the genre rather than a "successor". I rather think this makes sense. The game isn't a masterpiece, but it doesn't have to be. It's not "self-important" (another term the review used). It's simply a stroll through how things used to be, and it was a very enjoyable one. I think it hit a good medium of easy and challenging, bringing groups of people who appreciate both together. I do hope Act 2 is harder, though. ;)

I think if this would have been advertised more as a reminiscent game, I would have had a much different approach. But looking at it through this perspective I would have expected more of a "stroll"

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It's not so much that the puzzles themselves are too easy (perhaps they are) - but rather that there are not enough "red herrings" or things to distract you and lead you in pointless directions. Given a limited set of items, and a (rather) limited set of objects to interact with, it's obvious that the puzzles would be rendered "easy" simply by virtue of them being able to be solved by "brute force" (exhausting all possible combinations, of which there aren't many).
Absolutely this. Not just red herrings, but what we can do with objects. Take for example Full Throttle's pad lock chain puzzle. It's not just a logical leap, it uses a separate target. BA uses huge target zones, the BA style on Full Throttle, the whole wall would be one object then the character would put the lock in the right place. This is a good thing early on (when we are just getting started) but BA didn't really ramp the difficulty up. Although we can't discount the fact that we are adventure game veterans (and I have been playing a lot in SCUMMVM in the last week to get psyched for BA), so things like what to do with the

golden eggs

are going to spring to mind much more readily to us than for a beginner.

obviously, more targets equals more complexity and more combinations.

However, I think (and I could be wrong) it's harder to add world elements (characters, interaction-target objects, locations, etc.) than it is to simply add inventory items.

The only problem with adding inventory items is that it requires to add voice reactions (although for most invalid interactions - generic comments like "This doesn't work" or "Huh?" or "Nah" or "Mmm...Mayber later" can suffice), and that you (sometimes) need to add unique animations for them (but only for the successful interactions).

Think about it --- adding a new static ( = background) "target" can theoretically only add a number of interactions that is equal to the max. number of items you have at that stage. But adding a new ITEM, can theoretically add a number of interactions that is equal to the total number of TARGETS (AND the total number of objects) that there are in the WHOLE GAME.

(and creating each MIGHT have almost the same "price", or - close enough to make the effort cost-effective).

I still think (and again, I could be wrong) they could have rather easily added a FEW items (thereby doubling X2 the number of items in the game at each stage), and it would only "cost" a small effort (creating the static graphics for them, adding some generic voice comments, some funny or specific voice comments, and some more dialogue options).

This alone, IMHO - would have made the gameplay longer and the puzzles slightly less straightforward and immediate.

It comes down to a question of $$$ and what would be the "cost" of adding each such item.

By the way, not all red herrings have to stem from USELESS items, it could just be that an item you pick at room 1 of the game only becomes useful at room 9... this in itself would make the item a seemingly red-herring because you're carrying it along with you - and it appears to be useless (and you keep trying to use it on things to no avail), but in fact it isn't.

So far - in my gameplay - I got the sense that items tend to have (almost) immediate uses.

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I think 8 hours of play time is more than adequate. Portal 2 is a AAA game and that is only 10 hours long. It just seems short to people because they only got to play half of it, and because that time was divided between two stories.

Also, keep in mind that this Kickstarter was for a small simple adventure game. Double Fine was under no obligation to provide more than that despite raising 10x what they originally asked for. So we're lucky to get an 8 hour game with excellent artwork and animation and music.

Furthermore, for the money we didn't just get an adventure game, we also got an excellent multi-part documentary that is over 10 hours long.

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I think 8 hours of play time is more than adequate. Portal 2 is a AAA game and that is only 10 hours long. It just seems short to people because they only got to play half of it, and because that time was divided between two stories.

Also, keep in mind that this Kickstarter was for a small simple adventure game. Double Fine was under no obligation to provide more than that despite raising 10x what they originally asked for. So we're lucky to get an 8 hour game with excellent artwork and animation and music.

Furthermore, for the money we didn't just get an adventure game, we also got an excellent multi-part documentary that is over 10 hours long.

Personally I don't mind the time as much as I mind the fun and satisfaction (and frustration) of tricky puzzles.

Now, I think you can't really compare point-and-click adventure games to games like Portal 2 in that sense. When I was younger and played Loom, Sam&Max;, Monkey Island, Day of the Tentacle, Space Quest, Discworld, Etc. - I used to spend literally WEEKS playing the games. Sometimes I'd go to sleep and right before falling asleep I'd suddenly have an idea of what I could try to do to solve some puzzle I'm stuck on.

I haven't played Portal 2 yet but I doubt that it happens there... Portal is designed to be much more "streamlined" and (as far as I understand) you should be able to solve each puzzle you started in the same gameplay session.

Like I said, I think that just adding a few items would have helped a lot to make things more challenging and engaging (there's also some other issues - like people missing interesting dialogues by accidentally progressing through the game by solving the easy puzzles).

But - given the CHOICE between a new 256 color "old-fashioned" point and click adventure game with much simpler graphics and animations and even without voice acting at all --- but with intricate, funny, multi-layered complex puzzles (like the ones in Day of the Tentacle) ---

as opposed to a polished hand-painted, artistic. gorgeous 16-million colored world driven by modern engines - with simple straightforward puzzles -

I would have picked the 256 color option.

The reason for that is that today you can get EASILY beautiful art and animation if you want (plenty of movies and even video games with those features), but it's VERY hard to find a good and challenging adventure-puzzle game that keeps you entertained for a long time and immerses you in a world in a way that other games don't.

My impression is (and i could be wrong) that there is no need to be THAT drastic, and that the game difficulty could be significantly increased by just shifting the balance SLIGHTLY away from the visuals to the core gameplay - and I gave the example of just adding 4~5 items (to each POV) and how much more difficult it could make the game.

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I haven't finished it yet. But the thing that millions bought us was if nothing else the engine. They built a brand new engine to make these games easier to make. It is entirely possible that we'll see more of these games after Broken Age finishes.

As for the game itself, it's beautiful and not ridiculously difficult but at the same time not so simple its boring. Loving it.

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Long enough to tell a story with proper pacing is exactly how long an adventure game should be. Quality over quantity.

Its good when people QQ about game too short cuz it means they want more and remain a patron for future additions. The opposite is not as good.

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The 2 stories of broken age is not connected but still good
Is this a question or statement? (Not actually sure, given the threads context.)

Grammar Police! 'Are' not connected, and yes. Yes they are. Play until the end.

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