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mudd1

Is the extremely low resolution of some textures normal?

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Also I think allot of the pixilation are just style choice because you often see like rampant brush strokes with some pixels what i'm sure is meant to be like that.

I'm almost certain it isn't but if it was, it would be a horrible decision. Especially in Vella's world, pixels just aren't a thing. Even right angles aren't really a thing. It's different for Shay but still, why normal objects should look like they are made out of Lego eludes me even in a sci-fi setting, as does your argument about brush strokes and Lego somehow being related in a way.

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Yes the fountain and especially the Cloud Shoes backdrop stood out like dogs bollocks. I'm assuming because it's just a zoom of the main scene which is the Meriloft crossroads and there can only be so much resolution. But still, DF really need to sort that out because it's not nice to look at and the press will hammer it in their reviews. Need to implement some kind of background LOD system or mipmapping or something.

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Wow, if this is NOT a bug, then it really spoils the game for me. It's downright painful to watch, and weird since it's not consistent. The whole cloud colony seems to be full of it though.

I mean, really?

100% agreed.

I thought this was a beta problem, but judging from DF Bert answer it looks like this was intended to be final...

I'm sorry but most of the Cloud Colony, as well as almost every background in the game is just embarassing (see attached screenshot)

Schermata 2014-01-15 alle 19.33.45.jpg

578d005a9d2ed_Schermata2014-01-15alle19.

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Also I think allot of the pixilation are just style choice because you often see like rampant brush strokes with some pixels what i'm sure is meant to be like that.

I'm almost certain it isn't but if it was, it would be a horrible decision. Especially in Vella's world, pixels just aren't a thing. Even right angles aren't really a thing. It's different for Shay but still, why normal objects should look like they are made out of Lego eludes me even in a sci-fi setting, as does your argument about brush strokes and Lego somehow being related in a way.

The pixelation was definitely not a stylistic choice. But the brush strokes were. It probably wasn't intentional to have the scale of the brushstroke marks vary relatively as much as they do, but a lot of that is unavoidable.

As for why the pixelation is there, there are 2 possible reasons. 1, it was not originally intended to be zoomed in on and there is no more resolution in the original painting files.

Or 2, they are working within a certain max resolution for their textures.

With either issue, the solution would involve placing pieces of art in top of the backdrop that are higher resolution to specifically accommodate the presentation of the close ups. Likely involving painting new art for those pieces, or at minimum taking a higher sampled copy of the art from the original background, eleminating the pixelation, however leaving very large brush strokes. That's the quicker answer, and would help, but won't look as nice as repainted sections specifically for the closeups

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Also I think allot of the pixilation are just style choice because you often see like rampant brush strokes with some pixels what i'm sure is meant to be like that.

I'm almost certain it isn't but if it was, it would be a horrible decision. Especially in Vella's world, pixels just aren't a thing. Even right angles aren't really a thing. It's different for Shay but still, why normal objects should look like they are made out of Lego eludes me even in a sci-fi setting, as does your argument about brush strokes and Lego somehow being related in a way.

The pixelation was definitely not a stylistic choice. But the brush strokes were. It probably wasn't intentional to have te scale of the brushstrokes vary as much as it does but a lot of that is unavoidable.

As for why the pixelation is there, there are 2 possible reasons. 1, it was not originally intended to be zoomed in on and there is no more resolution in the original painting files.

Or 2, they are working within a certain max resolution for their textures.

With either issue, the solution would involve placing pieces of art in top of the backdrop that are higher resolution to specifically accommodate the presentation of the close ups. Likely involving painting new art for those pieces, or at minimum taking a higher sampled copy of the art from the original background, eleminating the pixelation, however leaving very large brush strokes. That's the quicker answer, and would help, but won't look as nice as repainted sections specifically for the closeups

I agree that using higher resolution assets is the preferred solution, but I still think a better implementation of their blur filter would go a long way towards cleaning up the presentation. If there's not enough detail anyway I'd rather see an impressionistic wash of color than a bunch of ugly pixelated artifacts.

Also, weren't the majority of the backgrounds painted digitally? If they were done at a fixed resolution (likely) then there's no way to resample —it's not like these are scans of physical artwork (?)

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My mind could be playing tricks on me, but I seem to recall when watching Bagel painting Meriloft specifically he was zooming in on the image to at least a finer detail than what is available in the game, if not enough detail for every zoom. It seems when they exported the assets for use in the game, they only exported at the resolution for the most zoomed out view of the set, when they should have included some chunks of the levels that appear in close up at a higher resolution to use during just those close up shots.

I could see people who have spent the last several years working in 3d forgetting that 2d assets don't afford camera zoom in the same way textured polygons do. One expects a bit of texture degradation when getting really up close and personal with textured polygons, but the always sharp, hard edges of the polygons help mitigate that. In 2d you need a new asset at a new resolution for every different zoom. You just can't reliably scale up 2d assets. The detail for those zooms just don't exist.

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About the blurring jbartee (or someone else, sorry) is talking about...

the scene from which the two screenshots in this thread are from:

http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/12117/

(that is, a closeup while speaking with Marshall Dune in Shellmound) is the only instance in the whole game when I noticed the background blurring...

is that what everyone else has been experiencing or did background blurring not work as intended for me?

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im all for the blurry backgrounds for close ups, as long as the blur is nice and soft rather than low-res looking like many examples here display. hope to see some of the obvious cases like the cloud shoes screenshot (above) to get treated better though.

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About the blurring jbartee (or someone else, sorry) is talking about...

the scene from which the two screenshots in this thread are from:

http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/12117/

(that is, a closeup while speaking with Marshall Dune in Shellmound) is the only instance in the whole game when I noticed the background blurring...

is that what everyone else has been experiencing or did background blurring not work as intended for me?

Interesting. This would imply that perhaps there is an actual bug at work here, in which the filter is failing to produce the desired amount of blur at the various zoom levels. Even the "correct" shot you link doesn't look fantastic to me, but it's certainly better than the pixelation on the "incorrect shot" (which is how the majority of closeups looked for me during my playthrough)

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Why do you complain about visible pixels? This is the "old-scool" part that Tim promised. :-P

Just kidding. It really bummed me too and distracted me so much that my mind completely left the game for a moment to think about pixels, memory and budgets. That's bad.

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I just played a section at 640x480 res and it's wonderful... I just wish they let me force 4:3 aspect ratio on that resolution, and then it would look like the MOST BEAUTIFUL 90's adventure game ever.

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About the blurring jbartee (or someone else, sorry) is talking about...

the scene from which the two screenshots in this thread are from:

http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/12117/

(that is, a closeup while speaking with Marshall Dune in Shellmound) is the only instance in the whole game when I noticed the background blurring...

is that what everyone else has been experiencing or did background blurring not work as intended for me?

I did not experience any blurring filter as your one example shows. I only saw the blown up background with visible pixels and compression artifacting throughout the game.

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About the blurring jbartee (or someone else, sorry) is talking about...

the scene from which the two screenshots in this thread are from:

http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/12117/

(that is, a closeup while speaking with Marshall Dune in Shellmound) is the only instance in the whole game when I noticed the background blurring...

is that what everyone else has been experiencing or did background blurring not work as intended for me?

I did not experience any blurring filter as your one example shows. I only saw the blown up background with visible pixels and compression artifacting throughout the game.

I saw very effective blurring in some shots, and horribly pixelated backgrounds in others.

Hopefully it's a bug and the blur can be applied to those ugly ones, too.

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I didn't notice a blur filter either, it'd definitely help but those backdrops could still do with a resolution bump.

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The Shay part was just amazing and gorgeous at every level.

Vella's is the one that has many of those low resolution issue.

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I didn't notice a blur filter either, it'd definitely help but those backdrops could still do with a resolution bump.

Meriloft hub really needs a hi def upgrade. The shoe shop in particular looks just bad, as if it had some compression artifacts (not saying that it does, but that's how bad it looks).

I don't even know what's going on with the flat fountain. Either it's supposed to be a joke or it's a placeholder. :0

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About the blurring jbartee (or someone else, sorry) is talking about...

the scene from which the two screenshots in this thread are from:

http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/12117/

(that is, a closeup while speaking with Marshall Dune in Shellmound) is the only instance in the whole game when I noticed the background blurring...

is that what everyone else has been experiencing or did background blurring not work as intended for me?

Interesting. This would imply that perhaps there is an actual bug at work here, in which the filter is failing to produce the desired amount of blur at the various zoom levels. Even the "correct" shot you link doesn't look fantastic to me, but it's certainly better than the pixelation on the "incorrect shot" (which is how the majority of closeups looked for me during my playthrough)

I noticed the close ups looking a lot better in Shellmound as well. It would make sense that this blur was supposed to be applied in every closeup, especially considering how obvious this issue is and how much attention to detail is paid in every other aspect of the game.

I agree that higher res art would be the best option, but it'd be huge if they just got this blur working. It would remove the distraction.

Except for in Meriloft. The fountain and the shoe store really need resolution since they don't feel like close ups as much as locations within the meriloft hub

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Hey all,

We are working on fixing these issues. Some of the low resolution props and blur not being quite right in some areas are bugs that are being addressed.

In some cases, like the boom arms scene, the camera was moved in significantly towards the end of development for gameplay reasons, leaving the scene looking low-resolution. To address things like that, we are having to scale some of the scenes up and re-paint them.

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Hey all,

We are working on fixing these issues. Some of the low resolution props and blur not being quite right in some areas are bugs that are being addressed.

In some cases, like the boom arms scene, the camera was moved in significantly towards the end of development for gameplay reasons, leaving the scene looking low-resolution. To address things like that, we are having to scale some of the scenes up and re-paint them.

Thanks for the update! this is great news and pretty much the best-case scenario. So glad to hear that certain areas will be re-painted.

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Hey all,

We are working on fixing these issues. Some of the low resolution props and blur not being quite right in some areas are bugs that are being addressed.

In some cases, like the boom arms scene, the camera was moved in significantly towards the end of development for gameplay reasons, leaving the scene looking low-resolution. To address things like that, we are having to scale some of the scenes up and re-paint them.

:D

yay!

Well now I don't mind these being issues for the beta. I'm just glad it'll be fixed for the commercial release.

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In some cases, like the boom arms scene, the camera was moved in significantly towards the end of development for gameplay reasons, leaving the scene looking low-resolution.

Funny that you mention that, as it's the one scene where I hoped for the view to zoom out, so I knew where I was going...

But I guess you're supposed to explore it and a zoomed out view would spoil it or something?

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Hey all,

We are working on fixing these issues. Some of the low resolution props and blur not being quite right in some areas are bugs that are being addressed.

In some cases, like the boom arms scene, the camera was moved in significantly towards the end of development for gameplay reasons, leaving the scene looking low-resolution. To address things like that, we are having to scale some of the scenes up and re-paint them.

Hooray!

Though I kinda feel a bit of the pain for the art department, heh.

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Very glad to know the low-res is a bug.

I couldn't believe that was the intended output, considering how refined other parts of the game are!

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Hey all,

We are working on fixing these issues. Some of the low resolution props and blur not being quite right in some areas are bugs that are being addressed.

In some cases, like the boom arms scene, the camera was moved in significantly towards the end of development for gameplay reasons, leaving the scene looking low-resolution. To address things like that, we are having to scale some of the scenes up and re-paint them.

Sounds great.

I just want to add one more thing that is somewhat related.

There are colour compression artifacts in some of the zoomed in shots. I noticed it especially in certain scenes in the Cloud Colony (since cloud gradients are prone to those types of artifacts). It looked sort of JPEG-ish in nature (blocks, sudden wrong colours). I'm not sure how easy this is to fix, and I'm sure you guys on the art team are already aware of it. I thought I might mention it regardless, in case (at some point) a struggle between anyone arguing that "nobody will notice" and you art guys erupts (in which you can tell them with confidence that some people do notice.)

Thanks for the art. It's stellar.

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Using the blur filter you have already in place more often would also go a long way for many scenes. This is actually another bug but one that thankfully shows, what that filter can do. Here are two screenshots taken seconds apart, actually without a cut which makes the sudden onset of the filter look mighty weird.

?ACT=36&fid=60&aid=3509_pTWdIxuVtDGaGxdPyoEr&board_id=1

?ACT=36&fid=60&aid=3510_VBGeZIjaZzGdoktmqf7E&board_id=1

2014-01-16-104941_1920x1200_scrot.jpg

2014-01-16-104945_1920x1200_scrot.jpg

2014-01-16-104941_1920x1200_scrot.jpg.dd

2014-01-16-104945_1920x1200_scrot.jpg.d2

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Here are two screenshots from the same location on different times.

After doing some puzzles (at least the bucket hat, possibly others) the background becomes blurry, but the "outer" background stays sharp so it looks weird.

The other screenshot is from a different playthrough before the blur happens.

shellmound-sharp.jpg

shellmound-blurry.jpg

shellmound-sharp.jpg.b84f2a95dd026e3184f

shellmound-blurry.jpg.edf24779f3dc4e48bd

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Here are two screenshots from the same location on different times.

After doing some puzzles (at least the bucket hat, possibly others) the background becomes blurry, but the "outer" background stays sharp so it looks weird.

The other screenshot is from a different playthrough before the blur happens.

considering the blur effect never worked right, I'd assume that we're seeing another kind of glitch on the blur-enabled shot. The foreground was probably meant to be in focus and the background out of focus, but the reverse happened.

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Here are two screenshots taken seconds apart, actually without a cut which makes the sudden onset of the filter look mighty weird.
I think I noticed a few spots where the background suddenly changed, but it happened so quick before a transition I couldn't tell if it was a high-res pop-in or a blur effect being applied.

I get we are going for a more cinematic camera feel, but I agree with the above posters that some of the close-ups are simply too close given the resolution of the backgrounds. Solution would be to either pull back a ways or pop in a higher res block of art for that specific screen. The blur effect shown here looks good too, I just don't think I ever saw that much of it during my last playthrough (two nights ago)

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Here are two screenshots from the same location on different times.
IMO that is too much blur. The blur makes sense on closeup of characters, not on wide-shots. This is because with closeups we can imagine the camera actually being closer, which would make the background blurrier, as opposed to simply zooming in, which would retain any depth-of-field.

All IMHO of course, in this day in age any sign of low-res texture is like a sin! :)

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