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k0SH

A game you could enjoy a lot? YES! A classic adventure game? NO!

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The important thing is the level of quality, and it should be apparent that with broken age its very high.
Is it?

Sound-wise 100% agree!

Music and speakers are awesome!!!

Graphic-wise 70% agree.

It has its own look which I like!

But it looks a bit "cheap" and the animations are far from superb.

Controls-wise 40% agree

It´s 100% designed for mobile gaming!

Wouldn´t call it innovative at all. It´s simple. As said optimized for mobile gaming.

And I´m missing the "look" on the second mouse button!

The world BA takes place in is so rich of details and stuff. I would love to click dozens hot sports and get information about everything. But no, we don´t get that much additional info.

Puzzle-wise 15% agree

WTF??? So far there are no puzzles at all.

Or at least no challenging puzzle that I would call a real puzzle compared to the adventure games in the olden days!

Story-wise 60% agree

Main plots are interesting. Humor is ok.

BUT the wasting of minor characters is a shame!

They didn´t get any space to develop their story, which is a waste of good speakers too.

Overall impression (so far)

It´s a nice designed click-through child book on a very high level!

But length, controls and few to zero puzzles let me hypothesizes that BA is 100% designed for mobile gaming.

Don´t get me wrong.

Is it a game you could enjoy a lot? YES it is!

Is it a classical adventure game with huge puzzles (both mentioned before by Tim/ DF. Like on steam: "A whole bunch of awesome PUZZLES")? NO it isn´t. In my eyes not even close.

I´m not regretting my $100 pledge for the box and the great documentary!

But I´m disappointed bit by bit from a classic adventure-pint of view because I didn´t get what I had hoped for.

And I hoped for much more (classic adventure game-like) because present-day companies focussed on making adventure games (like Daedalic in Germany) develop "more adventure" for 1/5 of that budget.

And to be honest, I don´t think that Act 2 will change anything!

It was too often said that Episode 2 of whatever will be more challenging, longer, more of everything: marketing bushwa.

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Btw: Am I really the only one who would love to see a new classic adventure game that you´re not able to finish in one short run?

I love to get stuck and love to be forced to rethink different things and stuff.

And it´s a relief if I´m able to solve it later without any or only a very limited push in the right direction.

I mean, seriously, Act 1 was released and 2,5 hours later you found the first "I´m through" posts everywhere :(

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Well, as I said in the "no puzzle"-thread next door (http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/12003/):

.

Right. You couldn't make them [= old school adventure games] nowadays.

But that, as I understood, was exactly the reason Tim went to KS, wasn't it? He wanted to make an "old school" adventure game. I think even those exact words popped up. So yeah, I agree with the people before me. There should be weird, strange, bizarre puzzles that make you give up for half a day while you mull over the problem in your head. After all, the new, softer, stream-lined version of adventure games is something I can still buy today elsewhere.

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Yeah! Agree!

The adventure scene is still big in Germany and there are a few companies who produce high standard games.

Plus there are a lot indie developers who releases really great classic story-driven adventure point and click games.

That´s why I was hoping we would see another one from DF.

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Agree with you guys here. Lovely setting, lovely voiceacting ... BUT ... why can't I look at anything? Examine? Push, pull, kick, lick ... ?!? Such a rich world and nothing to explore. And so eeeeeaaaaaaaasyyy. Hell, I mean, you had the chance to really GIVE IT TO US, Tim. You took your time, you took our money....

Don't get me wrong. Lovely game. I'm liking it. I was hoping for deep love though, not just warm sympathy *sigh*

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Graphic-wise 70% agree.

It has its own look which I like!

But it looks a bit "cheap" and the animations are far from superb.

I agree with the criticism of the puzzle and control part but not with this one, mainly because of two things:

I guess by cheap you mean that it's looking too plain or simple to you, doesn't it? But if you followed the updates you should know that there is actually a lot more to it and at least I think it's definitely showing in the game, from texturting to lighting to movement to small animations, it's actually more complicated than you think, definitely not "cheap" in my opinion.

The other things is how packed with characters and other animated objects the game is, I really can't point to a recent (adventure game) example where this is the case. It creates a really unique atmosphere and makes up a bit for shortness of the game, at least for me.

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Great summary of concerns. I totally agree with you...

I enjoyed it, but not as a pointnclick adventure.

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So far this has had everything I love about adventure games in it, and that's speaking as someone who started playing them in 1990.

But was anyone truly deluded enough to imagine that they'd be able to satisfy 90k out of 90k backers? If you weren't totally happy that's a real shame for you, but you don't speak for everyone. Also, while some of your comments are a matter of opinion, which is cool, it seems rather unfair to comment on the story when it's only half done. We don't know how much the characters you claim were underdeveloped feature in the next part.

And also, you have some reasons to be hopeful: If harder puzzles are a thing you yearn for, there's still part 2 which we already know from the doc will be significantly harder, and based on feedback I'm sure the team will be quite committed to that goal.

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Yeah! Agree!

The adventure scene is still big in Germany and there are a few companies who produce high standard games.

Sort of. Most adventure games out of Europe are shovelware, and pretty awful. Daedalic has made one game (Chaos on Deponia) which I think measures up to the classics. Everything else they've done has been middling.

Plus there are a lot indie developers who releases really great classic story-driven adventure point and click games.

This is very true. Wadjet Eye has done some great work recently, and I'd call them (well, the people making games published there) the inheritor of the Lucasarts tradition more than anyone.

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Btw: Am I really the only one who would love to see a new classic adventure game that you´re not able to finish in one short run?

I love to get stuck and love to be forced to rethink different things and stuff.

And it´s a relief if I´m able to solve it later without any or only a very limited push in the right direction.

I mean, seriously, Act 1 was released and 2,5 hours later you found the first "I´m through" posts everywhere :(

Maybe you should check out some Wadjet Eye games! They may be more up your alley if you're looking for a puzzle-heavy classic-style game.

Totally agree that the lack of substantial puzzles and lack of a verb wheel are disappointing. The game is very charming and fun, but it doesn't live up to its promise of returning to the roots of the genre. Needs a verb wheel hardcore.

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But was anyone truly deluded enough to imagine that they’d be able to satisfy 90k out of 90k backers?
Sure thing that THIS would never be accomplishable!
If you weren’t totally happy that’s a real shame for you
I am very happy. But not from a classic adventure point of view. That is my main message/ opinion.
, but you don’t speak for everyone.
Never intend to do so. And aware of that.
it seems rather unfair to comment on the story when it’s only half done.

Hey, all above is just my opinion for the moment. And it was DF that deceided to deliver it in two parts ;-)

We don’t know how much the characters you claim were underdeveloped feature in the next part.
100% agree on that!

And I really love to be wrong in the end!

there’s still part 2 which we already know from the doc will be significantly harder
To be honest. I don´t think so! But again, love to be wrong again.
and based on feedback I’m sure the team will be quite committed to that goal.
like they´re all comitted to the goal to deliver a classic point and click adventure game? ;-)

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Daedalic has made one game (Chaos on Deponia) which I think measures up to the classics. Everything else they’ve done has been middling.
I think they did a pretty good job with more games than just CoD.

And for sure there are a lot of things to complain about their games too, but in my eyes the adventures from Daedalic are probably as close as it gets talking about classic adventures.

Maybe you should check out some Wadjet Eye games!
Did. Played and enjoyed them, a lot.

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Btw: Am I really the only one who would love to see a new classic adventure game that you´re not able to finish in one short run?

I love to get stuck and love to be forced to rethink different things and stuff.

And it´s a relief if I´m able to solve it later without any or only a very limited push in the right direction.

I mean, seriously, Act 1 was released and 2,5 hours later you found the first "I´m through" posts everywhere :(

I haven't played it yet, but I was also suprised to see what you mention: People claiming that they solved it in a few (2-3) hours.

Of course, I remember, that in old days, games also had a slow build up on puzzle difficulty. For example Monkey 2, which for me is the benchmark, for both length and difficulty. But, I am sure that by the middle of the game, there were already 1 or 2 moments, where I have been stucked, and spend much time, I had even quit the game, and come again another day with a fresher mind, to be able to overcome them. So, if puzzle difficulty hasn't become hard enough already in the end of Act 1, I doubt that it will build up later on, in Act 2.

Unlikely, nowadays, the challenge factor, has diminished a lot in the gaming sector. There are few to zero games, that can claim, that they are challenging. In my opinion challenge has become the victim of the disire of companies to increase the market potential of their games. Gamers, today are more casual than they used to be. Most of them, want to pass their time playing, without the need to twist their mind. I once have seen, a video of what Doom would be if it was released today, where every single second, there was a blinking arrow on the screen, telling the player, Go here, shoot here, press this button, etc. It is a shame, that this has happened but it is true, and is hugely accounted to the belief (mainly from the publisher's perspective) that an easy game, will have increased sales, and broader appeal to the masses.

I backed this game, with the belief that DF and Tim Schaffer, having banished the publisher from the game development chain, would do what he used to do back in the 90s. Alas, I was wrong, it seems, that Broken age, become also a victim, of DFs need for more money. The simplistic interface, the easy puzzles, indicates clearly that the game was developed in the perpsective of selling good between casual gamers, playing through their tablets, rather than satisfying old school adventurers. Which is a pity, since, what was promised was the second rather than the first. And if a company with a 3.3 millions funding given from the right begining, without any comprimises, can't achieve this simple, I doubt that it will ever happen again.

Of course, there is Act 2, to be delivered yet, but usually things do not change dramatically between 2 acts of a game, which was initially desinged and developed seamlessly. And I doubt that, even, if DF do consider the backers comments on difficulty, act 2 could change in the perspective of adding more challenge, since the design of puzzles are more or less in place, and probably what remains to be done, are some animation and artistic issues.

I would like to close my extensive comment with a wish and a urge at the same time. I hope that developers (and especially indie, which I think DF belongs), would one day realize, that casual gamers are passing by all the times. They do not loose them. But loyal adventurers are more difficult to be gained, and very easy to be lost for ever.

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But was anyone truly deluded enough to imagine that they’d be able to satisfy 90k out of 90k backers?
Sure thing that THIS would never be accomplishable!
If you weren’t totally happy that’s a real shame for you
I am very happy. But not from a classic adventure point of view. That is my main message/ opinion.
, but you don’t speak for everyone.
Never intend to do so. And aware of that.
it seems rather unfair to comment on the story when it’s only half done.

Hey, all above is just my opinion for the moment. And it was DF that deceided to deliver it in two parts ;-)

We don’t know how much the characters you claim were underdeveloped feature in the next part.
100% agree on that!

And I really love to be wrong in the end!

there’s still part 2 which we already know from the doc will be significantly harder
To be honest. I don´t think so! But again, love to be wrong again.
and based on feedback I’m sure the team will be quite committed to that goal.
like they´re all committed to the goal to deliver a classic point and click adventure game? ;-)

Your comments make sense until the end (even if I disagree with the opinion). Tim specifically talks about in the most recent episode how he is deliberately making Act 2 harder. They also have the luxury of responding to backer feedback. So what, he's lying or you just don't think they're capable of delivering a harder act 2? Don't get it.

I think they have delivered a classic point and click in every single way that's important to me - so while I understand what you're saying, I can't really relate to it.

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Controls-wise 40% agree

It´s 100% designed for mobile gaming!

Wouldn´t call it innovative at all. It´s simple. As said optimized for mobile gaming.

And I´m missing the "look" on the second mouse button!

The world BA takes place in is so rich of details and stuff. I would love to click dozens hot sports and get information about everything. But no, we don´t get that much additional info.

100% agree on this point. I think the controls are pretty damn bad for PC.

I never really (through my 5 hour playthough) got used to the stupid drag and drop inventory, and the right-click to inspect item.

The rest of you points, though, I disagree with.

While the game was not a completely old-school adventure. What excatly is that anyway?

Monkey Island (1/2), Day of the Tentacle, Full Throttle and Girm Fandango were all really very different games, which each evolved the genre in their own way. Broken age is the same, only the time difference is a lot longer.

A larger change is natural.

Overall I think Broken Age is a really good modern classic adventure.

[Edit] Typo

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The simplistic interface, the easy puzzles, indicates clearly that the game was developed in the perpsective of selling good between casual gamers, playing through their tablets, rather than satisfying old school adventurers.
Word!
So what, he’s lying or you just don’t think they’re capable of delivering a harder act 2? Don’t get it.
I just don´t believe it (yet).

And I reason it because everything looks and feel so tablet-like.

You don´t find (that much) hardcore adventurer playing on tablets.

If this is the main focus group DF won´t torture them with real puzzles ;-)

But again, hope I´m wrong! Looking forwardt to Act 2!!

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Unfortunatley, I have to agree. From the moment it didnt have an intro sequence I should have known something was up. The puzzles are basically tell tale level, not old school at all. The joy of being stuck, coming away and thinking about things was missing. Furthermore, there was no build-up to the feast at all and i'm sure much more time could be spent at the cloud colony - even jack black said it "is that it?" Whats the rush? You have all these art assets and characters and the game just lets you basically walk though them.

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Unfortunatley, I have to agree. From the moment it didnt have an intro sequence I should have known something was up. The puzzles are basically tell tale level, not old school at all. The joy of being stuck, coming away and thinking about things was missing. Furthermore, there was no build-up to the feast at all and i'm sure much more time could be spent at the cloud colony - even jack black said it "is that it?"

I don't think it's Telltale level. It's somewhere in between old Telltale (Sam & Max, Monkey Island), which had puzzles that were almost as tough as classic adventure games, just less obscure, and new Telltale (TWD, TWAU), which doesn't even attempt to be a puzzle game and isn't fit for comparison.

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Unfortunatley, I have to agree. From the moment it didnt have an intro sequence I should have known something was up. The puzzles are basically tell tale level, not old school at all. The joy of being stuck, coming away and thinking about things was missing. Furthermore, there was no build-up to the feast at all and i'm sure much more time could be spent at the cloud colony - even jack black said it "is that it?"

I don't think it's Telltale level. It's somewhere in between old Telltale (Sam & Max, Monkey Island), which had puzzles that were almost as tough as classic adventure games, just less obscure, and new Telltale (TWD, TWAU), which doesn't even attempt to be a puzzle game and isn't fit for comparison.

What? Easier than Tales of Monkey island? Now I am really dissapointed. I imagined, that it would be at least on par with it, given the feedback from people that have played it. But you say it is even easier. Damn! Telltale for me is the the company which first ressurected adventure gamess, then travestied them and burried them even deeper than before. So is DF the new Telltale then?

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So is DF the new Telltale then?
Wouldn´t say so :-)

Telltale found a way of creating games with a great story-telling but a lack of puzzles.

Their success proves them right, which is totaly fine with me.

I liked TWD too, but only for a budget price ;-)

And they don´t call the games adventures games.

That is my main point of criticism here.

The ks campain with its message and a lot of things that Tim has said focused on core adventures games of the late 80s and early 90s.

It´s an adventure game without a doubt.

But "just" another casual one as you see them 85% nowadays!

Only judged by mechanics and puzzle depth etc, not by story or characters..

And I really really hoped that they would have used the trillions of dollars to do something more "classic".

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Even toward the end of the "classic adventure game" era, the games were starting to evolve closer to one-button control schemes like this. See the later King's Quest games, for example (IIRC). So it came as no surprise to me whatsoever that this was a one-click game, and I have no problem with it.

I'm excited that this game is already perfect for tablets, and I don't think the controls were bad on PC.

The whole mess of verbs at the bottom of the screen was definitely fun and cool in the 90s, but what did they actually add to the game? In reality, very few verbs were ever used. It was almost all Look, Pick Up, Use, and Talk, all of which are completely contextual and don't need to be separated. The few times you needed Pull were just gimmicks.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be just fine with going back to that old system, and it definitely has nostalgia value, but I really don't see what's gained by it.

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Man, i hope most of these comments are wrong and that there are many enjoyable challenging puzzles, lots of things to explore for hours and that the interface was reworked, ... otherwise, wow, it can come around like a scam for adventure gamers. There is still hope for the final game but reading through some of the threads on the net currently makes me feel sad, disillusioned and reminds me of TTG. :o(

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I, for one, was completely satisfied by not having to go through every room verbing every noun four or six times, just to see/hear all the 'funny' reactions. Dragging the spoon/knife onto everything was good enough. I've been playing some of the Daedalic games lately, and getting very bored/frustrated with having even just four verbs instead of a streamlined interface like the one in Broken Age, something aware of context which helps me get on with the stories and the puzzles rather than drawing everything out.

And yes, I did play point-and-click adventure games back in the LucasArts/Sierra days. But just because it was done a certain way before doesn't mean that's the best way, even if you are trying to bring back "classic adventure gaming"—it doesn't mean you have to bring back the bad with the good.

I haven't finished Vella's part, yet (I'm playing on our HDTV so my wife can watch, and she got sleepy about 3/4 of the way through), but my current impression (pretty sure I figured out the Act I ending in my first hour of play) is that the "puzzles" throughout Shay's Act I story were meant to be childishly-easy, for story reasons. Everything he needed was just laying around, easy to find, because it was all part of the show for him to think he was accomplishing something on his own—without ever really removing him from the scripted routine planned for him from an early age. (Much like Zion in The Matrix movies; the computers let them think they're fighting back, breaking out, rebelling, doing dangerous things for noble causes, but it's all part of the computers' plans, all part of the model—everyone is playing their part, even when they don't know it.) If Vella's part ends the way I expect, then hopefully, freed from the straightforward constraints of what the computers/model expected for Shay's life, his storyline will present more opportunity for complex/deep puzzles.

tl;dr: I think the ease of the puzzles in the first act is as much for story reasons as it is for learning-curve reasons.

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I, for one, was completely satisfied by not having to go through every room verbing every noun four or six times, just to see/hear all the 'funny' reactions. Dragging the spoon/knife onto everything was good enough. I've been playing some of the Daedalic games lately, and getting very bored/frustrated with having even just four verbs instead of a streamlined interface like the one in Broken Age, something aware of context which helps me get on with the stories and the puzzles rather than drawing everything out.

And yes, I did play point-and-click adventure games back in the LucasArts/Sierra days. But just because it was done a certain way before doesn't mean that's the best way, even if you are trying to bring back "classic adventure gaming"—it doesn't mean you have to bring back the bad with the good.

I haven't finished Vella's part, yet (I'm playing on our HDTV so my wife can watch, and she got sleepy about 3/4 of the way through), but my current impression (pretty sure I figured out the Act I ending in my first hour of play) is that the "puzzles" throughout Shay's Act I story were meant to be childishly-easy, for story reasons. Everything he needed was just laying around, easy to find, because it was all part of the show for him to think he was accomplishing something on his own—without ever really removing him from the scripted routine planned for him from an early age. (Much like Zion in The Matrix movies; the computers let them think they're fighting back, breaking out, rebelling, doing dangerous things for noble causes, but it's all part of the computers' plans, all part of the model—everyone is playing their part, even when they don't know it.) If Vella's part ends the way I expect, then hopefully, freed from the straightforward constraints of what the computers/model expected for Shay's life, his storyline will present more opportunity for complex/deep puzzles.

tl;dr: I think the ease of the puzzles in the first act is as much for story reasons as it is for learning-curve reasons.

Yeah I liked the fact that there were some intuitive puzzles to get you warmed up. This will make the game seem shorter to big adventure game fans, but it'll also broaden the appeal.

And yeah, Vella's part is a little harder, but not that much. There were a couple of those obscure adventure game outside the box-thinking of combining or using items, (I especially liked how not helpful the hint to try and get you to use the plum was, but it was hilarious in retrospect) which we definitely didn't have in Shay's part. I'm looking forward to Act 2 a lot :D

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@k0sh: I wonder: Wouldn't you consider Loom to be a classic adventure game?

I thought about Loom too, while I was playing this. Loom was a classic. To me, it feels like it is somewhere between Loom and the original Monkey Island, in terms of difficulty, but without the trickier puzzles of MI (well, I was only about 11 when MI came out, and some of it seemed outrageously hard at the time).

I really like it, I think they've created a really good adventure game, even if it isn't quite the same as the games we used to play in the 90s. It would be nice to have more locations, more items and more puzzles, but the old adventure games never had stories like this (well, except maybe Grim Fadango, but that only took a long time to complete the puzzles because of walking everywhere...). It took me (and most other people) about 5 hours to play through Act I, and if Act II is similar in size, that's a decent size game, all in all.

And to have such great story telling! I think this game has slightly elevated the craft of game making in some way. The story is amazing - I can't think of many other games that I've played with such a great story line (though if only Ron Gilbert had been able to complete Monkey Island...)

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I'm totally with you k0SH. Shared almost the same thoughts about the game in another thread a few hours ago. And after completing it for the second time I'm even more disappointed...

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I think the biggest issue with people being disappointed with the way Act 1 ends and plays is pretty silly at this point in time. This game was and still is designed to be part of a larger whole. In order to do this, there should be a learning curve wherein you start easy and gets harder as you go along. While it would be understandable for you to be unsatisfied with the game as it is now, not until Part 2 will we know for sure if the game meets anyone's expectations. We don't know how long or hard the second act will be, but if it's a little longer and harder I'm sure most people's opinions will change: either from liking it to hating it, or vice versa (or somewhere in between). As with most things, the ending is paramount!

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I feel like a jerk for bringing this up, but I can't help but wonder how things would have gone if grumpy Ron was working on it too. Didn't it use to be Ron doing puzzles and Tim writing dialogue?

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