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AdamR

Leaked Beta

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The beta was leaked. You can find it in all big torrent websites.

Of course it was leaked by a backer, yet it doesn't make any sense.

Why would a backer, who probably supports the developers and wants them and the game to succeed, would crack and leak the game?

To make it clear; leaking a beta probably does more damage than cracking a released game. Potential buyers may just download the beta illegaly, because currently there is no other way for them to get the game, and when the game is finally available they might just skip and won't buy it because they will have already finished the game.

It's true that because of this two-part release some people may still have enough motivation to buy the game to get the update when it's available; this won't be the case when Act II is released...

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Pirates are gonna pirate, you can't really stop them. It's unfortunate that a backer put it up on torrent sites, but with this many backers, it was inevitable, as all it takes is one person out of ~90,000.

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Just because they're a backer doesn't mean they have any ethics or morals, sadly. They undoubtedly like the idea of being "first" to crack and release the beta of the game, and don't give two flying monkey's about the future of DF.

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There are scene release groups out there that actually get jobs at major retailers or bribe CD duplicating factory workers to be able to leak games early.

Don't you think pretty much any release group could muster measly 15$ just to be able to leak it later? :)

This was inevitable, and I'm glad Double Fine did not waste their time adding any kind of DRM into beta release.

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I'm of the belief that piracy affects nobody. Or at least very little. Usually people who pirate wouldn't buy anyway, and those who would end up buying it eventually anyway.

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I'm of the belief that piracy affects nobody. Or at least very little. Usually people who pirate wouldn't buy anyway, and those who would end up buying it eventually anyway.

While I generally agree, there IS probably a grey area (don't know how large) of people who WOULD have bought something if it was available for them (or if it was less expensive, for that matter) OR if there wasn't a pirated version of it --- but resort to pirated versions otherwise.

I can give the example of my country, Israel, where the TV show Game of Thrones not available UNLESS you are a subscriber of a specific satellite company. If you have cable, for example, you don't get the show. And you can't get the show legally on HBO website or Netflix (they block anything outside the U.S.)... so this leaves piracy as the only option.

It might be that ITunes now has GoT available for Israel too, not sure. But for many years you couldn't buy anything in ITunes that was produced in the U.S. if your country is Israel.

So - to conclude --

ya - generally I suppose a lot of the people who downloaded pirated versions wouldn't have bought legit versions, but there ARE people who would have....

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I'm of the belief that piracy affects nobody. Or at least very little. Usually people who pirate wouldn't buy anyway, and those who would end up buying it eventually anyway.

Well, the dangerous part of pirating unfinished game is the potential for bad word of mouth based on how unfinished it may be. Luckily DF held off until things were almost completely finished, so the number of problems were nominal.

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I'm of the belief that piracy affects nobody. Or at least very little. Usually people who pirate wouldn't buy anyway, and those who would end up buying it eventually anyway.

Agree with this.

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I think Lars Doucet's Gamasutra article best describes why people will pirate something (outside of just those whom pirate pretty much no matter what.)

http://gamasutra.com/blogs/LarsDoucet/20120222/91144/Piracy_and_the_four_currencies.php

The problem with most piracy debates is that the only "cost" they discuss is money-dollars. So, the problem is framed somewhat like this:

"Buying the game from us costs money-dollars. Pirating it costs zero money-dollars. Therefore, most people will pirate the game if they have the choice and we must do everything we can to physically stop them."

This is wrong because there are at least four currencies involved here, not just one (money-dollars).

I propose the following:

($M) Money-dollars

($T) Time-dollars

($P) Pain-in-the-butt-dollars

($I) Integrity-dollars

Whether a player buys or pirates a game depends on how much each service - not product! - "costs" in terms of these four currencies, as well as how much the player values each one.

4_currencies_oatmeal.gif

If DF doesn't give out a DRM-free copy of the Act 1 release to backers, would you blame them for going on to the torrents to get a copy that doesn't require Steam, especially if it's for a computer that doesn't have regular internet access? Someone probably could say they were doing a service for the backers. Steam has made me so tempted to get cracks for my games from there. It's technically illegal, but on the other hand, thanks to Steam's broken offline mode, I don't get access to games I bought and should have the right to play whenever I want. In fancy legalese, they can probably technically do that thanks to TOS. They haven't been in any hurry to overhaul it.

Luck happened to be with me in this case, as I've been keeping my computer at a friends house while we play SW:TOR. It was no problem for me getting my access to the beta, and am content until the final game comes out. If it wasn't, would it have been the final straw for me? Who knows.

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If you did just transfer the whole Steam folder. Problem solved.

Doesn't work for Windows version of Broken Age, I actually tried to copy it this way to my notebook.

Solved with a torrent, frankly don't see anything wrong with this since I backed the game.

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So I actually looked at the torrents people are uploading that say it's Broken Age and everyone is complaining that it's a virus... so there's that.

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Wait, why are you guys bothering to torrent at all? Are you just trying to avoid installing Steam on moral grounds, or is there actually some problem with it?

It's completely unsurprising that this game is being pirated, but there's really no practical reason for backers to be pirating (unless you can't use Steam for religious reasons, which I can respect).

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Well atleast we got the game before pirates, broken sword was almost a hour late on giving out keys so friends was playing the pirated version before i got the key for steam that just sucked, hopefully second half wont have that problem.

But you cant stop piracy no matter which drm you put on a game they find away around unless its 100% online games ofc.

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There is a practical reason - to have a version that is guaranteed to work offline without steams quirky offline mode.

As for viruses - launch it in a sandbox (for example sanboxie.com). If it does anything fishy it won't affect your computer.

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I'm of the belief that piracy affects nobody. Or at least very little. Usually people who pirate wouldn't buy anyway, and those who would end up buying it eventually anyway.

That's a convenient sentiment. I'm not sure what that last phrase means.

I'm not sure about games, but I can tell you for a fact that plummeting music sales have made it difficult for mid-tier to smaller bands to support themselves except through touring. And it still causes some pretty major problems for creators in the world of comic books, sales are WAY down compared to the pre-internet era.

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By the last phrase I meant, many of those who pirate only do so because they can't afford it at the time and want to play it ahead of time, but end up buying it later on anyway, which is not a lost sale. By the way, I'm undecided on whether I agree that internet piracy is stealing. Since there are an infinite number of copies of the product in the digital realm, there is no real loss of revenue if it is "stolen". No more money needs to go into producing a new copy of the product to replace the one that was lost.

Regarding the music industry, artists haven't made much money off of their albums anyway. Even before the internet. The record companies get most of it and what little percentage is left for you goes to pay off you deficit that you owe for getting the album done in the first place. The percentage of album sales that goes to you is around 5-10%. Artists have only ever made the majority of their money on live shows. That has never changed. The only people who are making a lot less money off of album sales are the record companies, and that's why the RIAA has been trying to smash down on internet piracy. They're not concerned with making artists money, if they were they would be giving them more money. They're concerned about making themselves money. Artists get next to nothing for album sales unless they're superstars. And even then it's nothing compared to concerts. So it's always been the record companies that have been making it extremely difficult for mid-tier to smaller bands to support themselves. As far as I'm concerned, the record companies are reaping what they've sewn. It's a better age now anyway where anyone can sell their music independent of the over-controlling record companies.

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These music sales?

2912sales.jpg

An industry that made over 90% of revenue by habitually packaging 1-2 decent tracks with 8-10 tracks of filler was bound to run into major problems sooner or later. Not to mention them wasting more than a decade waging war against their own customers with more and more ridiculous DRM instead of building proper infrastructure to use new delivery methods.

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The problem with that chart is that it only shows how they get their revenues, as opposed to the hit they took post-Napster. On the other hand, unless it was a brand new CD, they were running up over $20. I think I paid $24 for a They Might Be Giants cassette once. That had to change.

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These music sales?

2912sales.jpg

An industry that made over 90% of revenue by habitually packaging 1-2 decent tracks with 8-10 tracks of filler was bound to run into major problems sooner or later. Not to mention them wasting more than a decade waging war against their own customers with more and more ridiculous DRM instead of building proper infrastructure to use new delivery methods.

That graph doesn't show what you think it does. You might want one that shows sales, rather than a percentage, if such a thing exists.

Personally I'd look at the number of platinum rates singles by year or something simple like that.

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So I actually looked at the torrents people are uploading that say it's Broken Age and everyone is complaining that it's a virus... so there's that.

A lot of cracked games are treated by antivirus software as viruses, but most of these alerts are false positives.

I download cracked games when I want to try it before buy it (and there is no playable demo).

I think that downloading pirated software/music/movies can be a habit of some (a lot of) people.

If there were no piracy they would buy some stuff.

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A lot of cracked games are treated by antivirus software as viruses, but most of these alerts are false positives.

I'm pretty sure thats the standard line the uploader posts.

Oh, for seriously, you think all of the virus companies got together and planned a false positive this quickly? I bet you get a lot of viruses, eh?

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So I actually looked at the torrents people are uploading that say it's Broken Age and everyone is complaining that it's a virus... so there's that.

A lot of cracked games are treated by antivirus software as viruses, but most of these alerts are false positives.

Actually that's because cracked software is usually bundled with software to patch the executable. It's such patching that flags a/v software. There's no need for any of that with Broken Age, and from what I've seen (from the other thread) it looks like a REAL threat.

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So I actually looked at the torrents people are uploading that say it's Broken Age and everyone is complaining that it's a virus... so there's that.

A lot of cracked games are treated by antivirus software as viruses, but most of these alerts are false positives.

Actually that's because cracked software is usually bundled with software to patch the executable. It's such patching that flags a/v software. There's no need for any of that with Broken Age, and from what I've seen (from the other thread) it looks like a REAL threat.

Exactly. And I don't know how it is with Broken Age, no need to download this :)

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The problem with that chart is that it only shows how they get their revenues, as opposed to the hit they took post-Napster.
That graph doesn't show what you think it does. You might want one that shows sales, rather than a percentage, if such a thing exists.

Sorry, should've been more explicit.

I used this graph as an example that music industry clearly served its customers poorly for decades, because even in purely legal channels percentage of full album sales sharply drops once record labels began introducing adequate ways to get single tracks.

So yes, piracy played the role in revenue decline, but the reason piracy became so popular - is because music industry screwed their customers for ages, and instead of correcting themselves quickly once it was obvious what people really want - they fought for implementing more and more ridiculous drm without creating viable alternative to napster,kazaa,etc as Valve did with Steam.

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I can tell you directly and personally that yes, music sales are and were a very important source of revenue for musicians, not just touring, and that yes, the huge drops in sales in the internet age impact them greatly.

The argument that the music industry was corrupt or mismanaged and therefore somehow deserved all the misfortune that befalls it is extremely cynical. At the end of the day, musicians are the foundation, and saying that its OK to steal their work because a record exec isn't managing distribution properly is almost sociopathic.

But anyway, that argument has been going around for years, and its easy to justify the morality of any action with a couple hours on google and a handful of stats. And the music industry doesn't matter, its a game here.

I will say this, if there's nothing wrong with piracy, then why is it even a concern that the game was leaked? Why doesn't DF just post the game on the website, and let people pay if they feel like it? If the argument that "pirates were never going to buy it anyway, and honest people were always going to pay" is true, then why do we even have retail distribution models in the first place? Its a self defeating argument, if piracy were OK, then there should be no games market. Anarchy is swell and all, but all those employees need to pay for rent and diapers, and several hundred employees workin' away in a development studio on the hopes that when they get done some nice consumer is going to opt to throw a couple dollars their way for being nice don't cut it.

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I never said that pirating music (or pirating anything) was a ok or a good thing and I'm certainly not condoning it. I hope you're not getting that impression. But record companies do take advantage of music artists. There are more than a few testimonies to that effect. And record companies had it coming when they fought online piracy with obtrusive DRM. I also never said that it never affected the livliehoods of musicians. I only pointed out that concerts were always the primary source of revenue for successful mid to low-tier music artists and that they never got much of a percentage from album sales to begin with.

Again, I'm not condoning piracy, it is a threat. Just not to the extent that game publishers would have us believe. It's the general consensus that piracy has an extremely negative effect on the games industry, but it's only so because they told us it was. Anyway, I'm no advocate of piracy, I'm just stating my thoughts on the matter.

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