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RekoOne

Easy puzzles was a good thing

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Parallel stories works best if they communicate like in Day of the Tentacle. So you have to do things in one story to help the character in the other story. Big design-error to keep the two stories separated. Vellas story is a classic tale. A hero going on a journey to fight a monster. Extremely common story, but it works!! Still the cloud colony and the beauty queens is not fun parts. But it had the most fun character of the game, the Tree! Shays part was much weaker. How could they think a spoiled teenager would make a good character? And don't get me started on the yarn robots. They should have followed Straczynski rule "No Cute Kids, No Cute Robots. Ever!". Imagining running around the yarn ship for hours trying to solve puzzles! It would have been torture!

You can't just add hard puzzles to a bad story and expect it to become good. A story like Shays gets better when the puzzles is easy so that you can move forward fast.

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It's....not a bad story. Also, if the two stories were combined that would ruin the whole surprise for how the stories connect. You're not MEANT to know how they connect until later on. That's the whole mystery and intrigue of the game.

Overall you seem to have a pretty narrow view of the game and your reasons aren't very thought-out therefore your thoughts are not very credible. I'm sorry you didn't like it, but I doubt you'll find many who share your opinion of the story.

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yeah the story is great, what are you on about? you think its good that its easy so its just over quicker? why are you even playing then? back under the bed you forum goth

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I'm going to agree with MusicallyInspired on this one. Though, in my opinion, the puzzles were way, way too easy and did not live up to the promise Tim made to all of us of making an "old school point and click adventure" in terms of difficulty, the very best thing about it was the way the story tied together at the end. In the scenario RekoOne created, this revelation at the end would not have been possible. Besides that, we still have half a game to go in which, now that we have a unified story, those types of interactions perhaps can occur (not sure if they will, but we can hope). I just pray that we are given some more difficult puzzles like in the old days. This game was easier than the early TellTale games (ToMI, Sam and Max).

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In my opinion there should be an easy mode (current) and a hard mode (with extended puzzles).

Or, if that's too hard to do... have a harder game with an option to get a hint at any time.

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No... easy puzzles do not mean a better game experience. If anything, more difficult puzzles— that typically require more dialogue options, conversations, puzzle pieces, and objectives— add to the overall length of the game. This game was piss easy, and I didn't enjoy that.

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MusicallyInspired It’s….not a bad story. Also, if the two stories were combined that would ruin the whole surprise for how the stories connect. You’re not MEANT to know how they connect until later on. That’s the whole mystery and intrigue of the game.

Yes, but it also have to be fun in the beginning, middle and end. You can have a glorious idea for a story, but the quality is in the details.

MusicallyInspired Overall you seem to have a pretty narrow view of the game and your reasons aren’t very thought-out therefore your thoughts are not very credible.

We are talking about art, right? And art is emotions. How can a emotion be narrow? How can emotion be thought-out? How can emotions be credible?

MusicallyInspired I’m sorry you didn’t like it,

One part was good and fun (Vellas). One part was bad(Shays). So "didn't like it" is not that I think. It was uneven, some jokes was fun. Some parts was painful. I guess I would give it 3/5.

MusicallyInspired Oh I agree that it was far too easy.

So do I. But the Shay story just can't carry difficult puzzles.

If we had time for a total redesign I would cut the Shay part and make a game out of the Vella parts. Because what story is fun and would not be painful to have hard puzzles there. But we do not have that time

danfri Though, in my opinion, the puzzles were way, way too easy and did not live up to the promise Tim made to all of us of making an “old school point and click adventure” in terms of difficulty, the very best thing about it was the way the story tied together at the end. In the scenario RekoOne created, this revelation at the end would not have been possible

I do not understand. My opinion is that one story(Vallas) was good and one story(Shays) was bad. How does that make it impossible for the two stories to tie together in the end?

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It's not just that puzzles are to easy, but there is to few.

I imagine look at it this way. They spend all this time making these backgrounds these locations right; thats our levels in point n click.

But instead of walking around finding stuff, doing puzzles, discovering stuff. you pretty much plow right through them in a straight line. I mean it just seems like a waste, instead of using the locations.

I have played a lot of point n click games, to my knowledge this is one of the games, ive played that use each location the least, just one straight line right through pretty much, very very little actual gameplay, searching for stuff, finding stuff out, learning stuff from characters, there is very little depth here, i very sad to say.

Its just seems like if this was an FPS game, you make this big singleplayer level, you dont just make a straight path right through it, all that work you put into it. You try and use every inch of that level more or less and keep the player entertained and focused.

Doom is a good showcase of this, i know again FPS terms, but still applies, where as modern shooters call of duty, is a to b straight line. Where doom had you going all over the damn place, to find keycards, secrets, back and forward, and around around.

I sure hope they can add more puzzles else its gonna be a very short game.

But im sad, but its the risk i took to back it, so i wont complain about that, i sure knew what i was getting into with kickstarter, nothing is set in stone.. I just wish for more depth and complexity. So i definitely dont hate doublefine or anything.

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What makes you say Shay is a "spoiled teenager?" His life is planned out for him and he decides to take control of it. That's also a pretty classic tale. The yarn characters are obnoxiously cute because they were made to entertain the child he no longer is. They're a parody of the cute characters that Straczynski quote refers to. I feel like your take on his story is missing some of the layers which may be why you didn't enjoy it as much.

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Hard in point and click adventure games all too often means hiding an item where it's difficult to find or asking the player to run through every permutation of interactive objects until they stumble on a nonsensical solution. I never liked that aspect and didn't find the difficulty in this game worked against my enjoyment of it at all.

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OP, I really don't know what crawled up yer butt. At any rate, I suppose I'll go ahead and say Shay's half was my favourite part of the game. It was dripping with irony and the cutesy atmosphere contrasted beautifully with the very dry and sterile setting. It was an original twist on space.

Also, I don't know about you, but I think a lot of us can identify with Shay. His situation is extraordinary and extreme, but his emotions are all emotions that we've had in our lives. He is simply ready to be a man.

The characters on the spaceship were also my favourites. Marek ought to have been even DARKER, in my opinion. He was still too silly -- flying hairs and shit. He should have been even creepier and more solemn.

My favourite line in the game is spoken by the knife after you use him on the hatch and he flies into space, free to cut up the infinite void for all eternity... I just lol'd even remembering it...

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OP, I really don't know what crawled up yer butt. At any rate, I suppose I'll go ahead and say Shay's half was my favourite part of the game. It was dripping with irony and the cutesy atmosphere contrasted beautifully with the very dry and sterile setting. It was an original twist on space.

Also, I don't know about you, but I think a lot of us can identify with Shay. His situation is extraordinary and extreme, but his emotions are all emotions that we've had in our lives. He is simply ready to be a man.

The characters on the spaceship were also my favourites. Marek ought to have been even DARKER, in my opinion. He was still too silly -- flying hairs and shit. He should have been even creepier and more solemn.

My favourite line in the game is spoken by the knife after you use him on the hatch and he flies into space, free to cut up the infinite void for all eternity... I just lol'd even remembering it...

I felt similarly. Shay's half had the best lines, in my opinion. The knife and the spoon provided a large amount of chortling joy.

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Hard in point and click adventure games all too often means hiding an item where it's difficult to find or asking the player to run through every permutation of interactive objects until they stumble on a nonsensical solution. I never liked that aspect and didn't find the difficulty in this game worked against my enjoyment of it at all.

Why is it that people who feel the need to complain about difficulty in adventure games only refer to the bad examples of 'artificial' difficulty?

There are plenty of examples to name of truly challenging and well designed puzzles in adventure games.

Some of the puzzles in the Myst series come to mind. No pixel hunting, all the pieces are laid bare in front of you, but it's up to you to figure out how they interact and what purpose they could serve, often with very alien aspects requiring you to think outside the box. All of these puzzles had a logical solution, and the times when I felt the need to brute-force my way through them or look up the solution, was when my brain had to throw the towel in the ring, not that the game was cheating on me.

Remember that people who like challenging puzzles don't like pixel hunting or random solutions either.

To come back to my initial question: is it perhaps because complaining about hard puzzles that are fair would make you look stupid?

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For me I also don't buy into the "puzzles were too easy" argument - as long as they get more challenging in Act2. ;)

It actually was a very nice "flow" through the game. With the hint system in form of "comments on obvious but false uses" so effectively put into place, that none of the ranting reviewers seems to have noticed it enough to criticize it. I guess they all were just too good to notice that they were gently pushed into the right path... ;)

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I think they should just lock in these puzzles and solutions as "Easy" difficulty, and just update the game with a more challenging normal difficulty. That way everyone can be happy.

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For me I also don't buy into the "puzzles were too easy" argument - as long as they get more challenging in Act2. ;)

It actually was a very nice "flow" through the game. With the hint system in form of "comments on obvious but false uses" so effectively put into place, that none of the ranting reviewers seems to have noticed it enough to criticize it. I guess they all were just too good to notice that they were gently pushed into the right path... ;)

Actually, there is plenty of criticism to be found on these forums on:

- hints in dialogue and in item descriptions being way too obvious and coming too soon, sometimes you already know the exact solution to a puzzle you haven't even encountered yet (whipped cream propulsion device anyone?).

- too easily finding the required items for puzzles, several times just by asking an npc.

- puzzles which you can accidentally solve, that's a first in the adventure genre for me. In other genres this is criticized as faceroll gameplay.

So no, the help/hint system is not too subtle, or too gentle to notice, it is absolutely the opposite. It is applied to everyone automatically, even to those who don't need/want it, and as a result their game enjoyment is ruined, at least the puzzle aspect which is (to generalize slightly) an important aspect of adventure games for old school fans of the genre.

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sasquatch What makes you say Shay is a "spoiled teenager?" His life is planned out for him and he decides to take control of it. That's also a pretty classic tale. The yarn characters are obnoxiously cute because they were made to entertain the child he no longer is. They're a parody of the cute characters that Straczynski quote refers to. I feel like your take on his story is missing some of the layers which may be why you didn't enjoy it as much.

Parody is the right world. But it was not fun, so I will call it a failed parody. I have never been impressed with layers. If you take a bad joke and put on a lot of layers, the joke will still not be fun.

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sasquatch What makes you say Shay is a "spoiled teenager?" His life is planned out for him and he decides to take control of it. That's also a pretty classic tale. The yarn characters are obnoxiously cute because they were made to entertain the child he no longer is. They're a parody of the cute characters that Straczynski quote refers to. I feel like your take on his story is missing some of the layers which may be why you didn't enjoy it as much.

Parody is the right world. But it was not fun, so I will call it a failed parody. I have never been impressed with layers. If you take a bad joke and put on a lot of layers, the joke will still not be fun.

I dunno, it was one of my favourite parts of the game. Good luck with your campaign to convince everyone it wasn't fun :/

Is English your native language? I tend to wonder if that's why some people didn't think it was funny.

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I dunno, it was one of my favourite parts of the game. Good luck with your campaign to convince everyone it wasn't fun :/

I have no campaign. And this is a matter of taste, how can one convince another about taste?

My point is really more about game design. You can be in a boring area for one-two times without it getting painful. But if you have hard puzzles you would be forced to run around the boring part a lot, it would be painful. To make this a great game you would be forced to remove or redesign the Shay part and add hard puzzles. People talks like puzzles are all that is missing from the game.

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I dunno, it was one of my favourite parts of the game. Good luck with your campaign to convince everyone it wasn't fun :/

I have no campaign. And this is a matter of taste, how can one convince another about taste?

My point is really more about game design. You can be in a boring area for one-two times without it getting painful. But if you have hard puzzles you would be forced to run around the boring part a lot, it would be painful. To make this a great game you would be forced to remove or redesign the Shay part and add hard puzzles. People talks like puzzles are all that is missing from the game.

Nah, hard puzzles alone would have been enough, because Shay's area was fun and interesting.

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I humbly disagree with both you and Straczynski. MORE kids! MORE robots! If there's a writer who can pull it off, it's Schafer.

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The game is beautiful and funny with an interesting story. Yet I still felt that something was missing and that was the feeling of accomplishment while playing the game.

Much like Shay’s world the entire game is much to safe with far too easy missions. I remember being terrified of meeting Nurse Edna or LeChuck when I played those games. Yeah, I got older but in Broken Age even the horrible monster is kind enough to let you solve the puzzle without bothering you. You are never punished, thrown into jail, robbed your items, or forced to replay part of the game.

I'm pretty sure that my humble slacker backer donation does not entitle me to expect any more of you guys but if you got any sap left please take this kindly advise:

“DJ you know the score we want some f***ing hardcore”

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Yes, the puzzles were a bit easy, for me and for a few others, but people who didn't know Tim's previous works might have find them hard. My wife found them difficult enough (she had never played the genre before).

As for the story, personally I liked the boy's story more, it has loads of meaning in it, you have the over protective mother, the absent father (moon always away), you have the wolf representing the rebel friend that takes you away from the nest, etc.

And if you pay close attention you will notice that the wolf is also a test in itself, it's the boys emancipation, it is trying to make him think about consequence, risk (you can't save them all, you have to choose, choice is hard, you have to live with it).

But the wolf is in the know, he knows you are not saving cute little creatures, he his testing you all the time.

That's why I liked Shay part more than Vella's one.

I find the game beautiful, I find the story great and I can't believe I have to wait months to get part 2. :)

And yes, I would like it to be a bit more difficult, but I can understand why it's not.

As for the interpretation that each of us gives to each character and story, it has to do with past experiences, age, gender, life style, etc.

Try reading the book "little Prince" when you are 6, then at 12, then 18 and then 40 (my current age), each read will yield different results, because we as humans evolve, learn and understand things differently.

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