Jump to content
Double Fine Action Forums
Sign in to follow this  
iprigg

Are you satsified with the game's controls?

Are you satsified with the games controls?  

333 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you satsified with the games controls?

    • Yes
      227
    • No
      106


Recommended Posts

Then again, you can configure your own controls, so...

Also, Act II is supposed to be harder...lets reserve final judgment until after that point. I think we've made it clear by now that Act I was terribly easy. Whether it was as easy as they wanted it or far more than they anticipated remains to be seen. Either way, I believe our feedback was seen. Now lets see what happens.

I just don't see any way that they can ramp up the difficulty enough to appease a lot of these hardcore PnC fans. The first game was pretty easy, I think it would be a good difficulty for the first 1/3 of a game, so unless act 2 is twice as long as the first act I doubt it will meet people's expectations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also reserve some doubt based on what we have, but we can't know for sure until it's out and it wouldn't be right or fair to choose one side or the other at this point. I'm happy to wait for now. Hopefully further statements from the team or future documentary episodes might shed some light on their intentions with the difficulty more specifically for the second Act.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Simplicity is not always good. It makes life easier, yes it is true, but also makes people lazy!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, they function and while a one click system isn't what I'm used to I don't feel the game loses anything through its implementation. I have two minor complaints.

One the mouse-over circle is a little too large, especially when there are some things close together, when placing objects the hotspots are highlighted which works fine but when simply clicking it feel a little inaccurate.

Two, the more irritating, is that one has to drag the inventory items to each individual hotspot in a scene, opening the inventory each time. I imagine this works fine for touch controls but it feels awkward with mouse controls. Could there be a way to implement a 'use previously selected item' button, even if just for the non-touch release?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don’t think that argument makes a lot of sense. I doubt there are any real downsides, i.e. it’s all in your head. Dragging and dropping is not an onerous task. Also, a combine-button would be confusing, especially since the game eschews verbs otherwise.

Anything in an UI that makes it harder to perform a certain task is unnecessary.

Take for instance an example for a use-case regarding this feature:

I am in a room with 5 hotspots and want to knife 5 items to see what the knife has to say.

A somewhat optimal UI would allow me to go into the inventory once, pick the knife and then click on the 5 items in sequence with it. An even better UI wouldn't even require me to enter the inventory, since I could bring up the knife by scrolling the mouse wheel and doing the same.

The current control scheme requires you to: Click the button at the bottom left (or alternatively the inventory button), ClickDrag the knife from the inventory on the first item, listen to what is being said, click the button at the bottom left again, ClickDrag the knife on the second item, listen to what is being said, click the button at the bottom left again, ClickDrag the knife on the third item, listen to what is being said, click the button at the bottom left again, ClickDrag the knife on the fourth item, listen to what is being said, and finally click the button at the bottom left once again, ClickDrag the knife on the fifth item and listen to what is being said one more time.

See how that might get annoying quick and how the other option might just be a tad better?

In the first case you just have the item sticky to your cursor and go from item to item, the mouse movements required to do so are minimal at best, once down left to open the inventory (preferrably no click required), once over the item and click (or skipping even that by using the scrollwheel) then just the way it takes to each item.

The alternative requires you to go to the bottom left, click, pick the item in the inventory by navigating right, then ClickDragging it onto an item all across the screen and repeating the whole process as many number of times as it requires.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(In fact, the more simplistic the interface, generally the better it's considered to be.)

Just take a look at Dexter's explanation above this post how pointing and clicking (especially when combined with other features) is, in fact, more simple than dragging and dropping.

Finally: More hints? This game didn't need any more hints!

Who said anything about more hints?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wanted a point and click adventure and I got a drag and drop adventure game.

Didn't ruin anything, but I don't understand the change in control scheme that has worked perfectly for 3 decades

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RolandBurnum... I see what you and the enviably optimistic SurplusGamer are saying and agree that excessive verb usage should be eliminated. However, you (RB) can't argue that most often times resulted in the "I can't do that" dummy response and that there is a lot of money wasted (4x over) on every response. Obviously, there isn't money wasted when the dummy response is applied since it's a copy/paste approach.

I'd like to get on the whatever Tim does is without a doubt for the best bandwagon (and in most cases, I actually do), but a one click solves all approach does take away from the classic adventure game aspect (this simply cannot realistically be debated), which is a key aspect that I believe is at the root of most backers (at least the nostalgic adventuring type) fundamental value in the kickstarter funding. As stated by others, if this is simply a result of fitting the game into an android based model, then there are going to be a lot of disappointed people. So.. I pray that this is not a snapshot of things (sacrifices made in overall game development) to come.

Bottom line: All you need is "look" and "use" and all will be well, but look is a HUGE piece of the puzzle. Pun intended.

Though I almost never post comments, I read the posts daily and feel that DF, Tim, Broken Age and all of it's backers would benefit by voicing their opinions more often in hopes that backer opinion somewhat helps to craft the game. No offense, but taking the SurplusGamer approach of relentlessly defending planned development does nothing to help DF gauge the public/backer opinion.

Lastly, i wanted to note that I absolutely agree with SurplusGamer 95% of the time and am amazed by his intelligence and accuracy in his posts, but good-lord that remaining 5% along with the 1000+ makes me think you are paid by DF. Seriously, with over 1100 posts, is this not a full time job for you? I can't be the only one thinking this?

Wow, really ranted longer than anticipated. Apologies for all of the (). Wiggitty wiggity wack.

I'm going to have to refer to what I posted about 8 months ago on this one. It was easy to see coming. If only more people would have paid attention and spoke up when it mattered, I think we would've ended up with more of what we were hoping for. That said, I'm not sure I ever really truly believed that DF would pander to the masses like they eventually did. I'm sure I'll get over it, but the realization was quite disheartening. On the bright side of things, I was really entertained by the documentary work and think DF did cause more adventure games to be made by other developers. Though I guess companies like Daedalic have been doing some great things (Deponia) all along.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For PC, it'd be awesome if it were easy to add hotkeys. Keyboard 'i' for the inventory, Keyboard 1-0 to select an item, and then to be able to click w/o having to do the drag and drop. Or implementing classic point and click (selecting an inventory item lets you use it for a click).

For me, the bigger UI niggle was the space bar skipping the entire scene. I'm so used to just being able to advance single lines of dialogue - I'll need to go back and replay the game at some point because I accidentally skipped some lines. It'd be great if "skipping" went back to lines vs entire scenes (maybe add a separate key like escape to allow full skipping but I'd guess in most cases, people just want to fast forward instead of completely skipping things?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The level of polish to the UI is great. Tim's adventure games have increasingly tried to make the UI transparent so you can interact with the game environment instead of wrestling the UI. It just lets you play the game instead of trying to be the game and I think it's a great achievement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was obviously developed with tablet users in mind however it is sleek and easy to use. I am satisfied.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The controls were slick, unobtrusive, and perfect for the job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We were aiming for a simple design that could work across all our platforms. That said, we do have some ideas of ways to address this feedback for PC. Still deciding which will be acted on, but we'll let you know when we do!

That's good to hear!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We were aiming for a simple design that could work across all our platforms. That said, we do have some ideas of ways to address this feedback for PC.
Would be great!

So far it´s only optimized for mobile platforms.

Drag and Drop is nothing I would like to have in a PC (!) adventure game!!

This has nothing to do with innovative and stuff.

But what would be really an enrichment would be "look" on second mouse button with countless more hot spots in every single screen.

This low number of hotspots is again only optimized for mobile platforms and due to that we miss so much information about the world.

What a bummer!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never thought there was an issue in the first place. Played it practically without having to think about them.

Saying that, it would be nice to have a just "look at" option e.g. right mouse (though I'm guessing that would require extra dialogue which is probably not possible), left click to select item to use with something and maybe even number key bindings for inventory items. I certainly wouldn't consider them must haves, nor things that make the controls crap or broken.

I certainly don't want a 9 verb interface. Those were a pain the arse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tablet users... how many people do actually play games like those on tablets? Can someone make a poll for that? :D

Well it was okay for me. I would have loved a right-click-look-at and more hotspots to take a look at and get funny remarks, but I guess that isn't solely about the controls. So I voted for "yes".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We were aiming for a simple design that could work across all our platforms. That said, we do have some ideas of ways to address this feedback for PC.
Would be great!

So far it´s only optimized for mobile platforms.

Drag and Drop is nothing I would like to have in a PC (!) adventure game!!

This has nothing to do with innovative and stuff.

But what would be really an enrichment would be "look" on second mouse button with countless more hot spots in every single screen.

This low number of hotspots is again only optimized for mobile platforms and due to that we miss so much information about the world.

What a bummer!

Where did you find all the tin foil for that hat?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He has perfectly valid points.

Not really, the controls are totally fine. There are some old men who stopped playing computer games in the 90s who expect controls to be the same but they are a minority I think. The controls work perfectly fine, not once did I feel that the controls impeded me in any way.

Then he goes on about some grand conspiracy about how the "true" game is actually being made for phones and tablets and it is absolutely absurd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But it is. Even Tim said as much in the Joystiq interview. His idea of adventure games was always to appeal to the people who would never play games. Extending that to tablet devices was exactly his thought process to continue achieving that goal.

And just because you're alright with the new controls doesn't mean everyone else is. And that's not wrong. Maybe he expects the same control style because the control peripherals are still the same (mouse & keyboard). If the interface hasn't changed, why should the control scheme? But really the interface has changed. In the form of tablets. Compatibility with multiple platforms was the exact reason for the design. Greg said so as well. It's not a conspiracy, it's fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But it is. Even Tim said as much in the Joystiq interview. His idea of adventure games was always to appeal to the people who would never play games. Extending that to tablet devices was exactly his thought process to continue achieving that goal.

And just because you're alright with the new controls doesn't mean everyone else is. And that's not wrong. Maybe he expects the same control style because the control peripherals are still the same (mouse & keyboard). If the interface hasn't changed, why should the control scheme? But it has, in the form of tablets. Compatibility with multiple platforms was the exact reason for the design. Greg said so as well. It's not a conspiracy, it's fact.

That isn't what he said, this game isn't designed for tablets. It is designed for PC.

I can prove this argument false with one sentence and it should never be brought up again. Tablets can click too.

End of argument. It was a design decision that had nothing to do with phones/tablets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Played about half of the game on my windows tablet just using touch input and the controls don't actually work very well on it:

1. Touch doesn't work at all in full screen, this is an issue with a lot of games, don't actually know why

2. Very easy to accidentally leave a conversation because I accidentally touched above the dialogue (also managed to do this with the mouse once too)

3. Some of the scene exits are very close to the edge of the screen, which makes them harder to touch, especially when you don't get the icon change until you touch the screen.

4. About half the time I went to open the inventory I also started walking to the bottom left hand corner of the screen, most frustrating when it also lead to a scene exit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sorry, but I have to take umbrage with this. Dragging and dropping is not an intuitive feature in point and click adventure games. Having to click on a button to open the inventory instead of having it open on mouse-over is not better. Using the scroll wheel to cycle though inventory is an excellent feature. Lastly, what's wrong with an option to look at things? It's great for delivering hints and as a tool for the player to explore the world.

Dragging and dropping has been 'use these together' since *at least* Windows 3.0, probably earlier. Why is it that people insist on forgetting everything they know the moment a new program starts?

I do agree that hovering the inventory popout should pop it up, but I really do not get the hate for dragging.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dragging and dropping has been 'use these together' since *at least* Windows 3.0, probably earlier. Why is it that people insist on forgetting everything they know the moment a new program starts?

Windows 3.0 was a terrible adventure game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I loved how you guys kept the double clicking to skip the walk up between areas. That made me able to travel much faster between screens. I loved how I could skip the parts of the dialogue that I have already listened to. The inventory was quite nice and super functional. Well done!!!

To me, the real problem was the cursor that really limited the game under many aspects. I understand that this game had to be working on touch screens as well but the large size made it impossible for the artists that designed the world to place many little items next to each other. This made all the key items in the game really stand out and made the game very simple to figure out.

Also I liked the old idea of having the mouth, the eye, the hand and some other actions available to the player. The option to blow something up with my mouth or kick a door with my foot instead of just "use it", in my past experiences, gave me plenty of laughters and chuckles.

Having re-played all the Mankey Island on a touch screen I think that another way to tackle the UI could have been found.

To me, the new controls, were very functional for anyone that played the game on a touch screen but this was a great disadvantage for the regular users. I understand that we all need to embrace the new technologies but I believe that we should add the "new" to the old instead of bowing to the latest and scrap what has been refined for many years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That isn't what he said, this game isn't designed for tablets. It is designed for PC.

I can prove this argument false with one sentence and it should never be brought up again. Tablets can click too.

End of argument. It was a design decision that had nothing to do with phones/tablets.

You haven't proven anything. Tablets can't right-click. If they could, they would have kept the old tried-and-true control scheme. The entire game is designed around one mouse button. That's it. You can play the entire game with one button. If that's not striving for tablet-compatibility I don't know what is. There's a lot you could have done with a right click function, be it a dedicated separate look interaction or something else. Now you can set the RMB to do one of the other actions like bring up the inventory or skip dialog, but that is entirely optional and not required to play the game. The only required control is the LMB.

Tablets only have one button: your finger. To drive this point home, the reason you have to drag around the inventory items is because that's what people do on tablet devices to move things around. You don't tap the object and then tap its destination, you tap+hold and drag then release. Again, Greg has said that the controls were designed for compatibility across multiple platforms. That is, multiple platforms that may not have a keyboard or mouse. iOS and Android are listed in Broken Age's supported platforms list along with Mac, Windows, and Linux. Those five are the main platforms. Seeing as Windows, Mac, and Linux all support mice, the only other platforms that would give reason for cross-compatibility would be iOS and Android. That means these two are DIFFERENT from the former three. Tablets can click, but they only have one button which severely limits the possibilities compared to two.

So you're wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BA is absolutely fine under many aspects but it was just too quick and simple. The story is there and the quality is through the roof, the only problem is the simplicity of the game itself.

The UI and the depth of the story would not be so influential if the game was a bit more challenging and a bit longer.

All these discussions feels like people arguing about a boat that has the interiors decorated to perfection, the bridge designed by the most amazing architect and the engine of a moped. It is not so important to discuss and try to fix what is not broken. The UI of BA is absolutely functional (could be better but it is not a big deal), the art is stellar, the first half of the story is super well written and the animations is perfect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

we don't NEED verb coins or anything like that, but playing on PC with no functions beside LMB feels like it's a smartphone port, which is less than ideal. i liked the game and the controls were totally servicable, but the inventory would've been better if you opened it with RMB, closed it by hovering outside that window, examined stuff with RMB and selected them with LMB. using the edge of the screen is too much like using an operating system. i never liked how sierra had their verb-icons at the top either, always rightclicked to cycle through them instead.

really liked how many recorded messages there were for offering items to people or using them in the wrong place, kudos for that. would've been even better if there were RMB "look at" options for everything as well as interacting/talking, just so you'd instantly know what a click would do. but we can live without that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, I never got completely used to having to drag inventory items. Even toward the end I still found myself trying to click on the item once and then on the thing I'm trying to use it with, because that's what I've always done in adventure games.

For me, having to click to bring up the inventory was fine. I just had that one problem (dragging) with the controls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...