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felipepepe

To the DFA staff: Can I get a refund?

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Way to go, Felipepepe.

Now that it has been condoned by Tim, I just want to say you're all jerks for defending this level of puzzle difficulty, and making fun of/dismissing/ignoring all the more reasonable threads and discussions on these subjects. But I guess we'll get new outfits in Act 2, so it's fine.

Haven't watched the latest ep yet but i'm assuming this thread is referenced and watching it will make it more clear who you're referring to?

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People on the Codex pointed this out for me... what a joke. I get bashed for being "uncivil" in asking for a refund, but it's ok for Tim to go on video calling me a jerk.

But it's ok, call me names, hide from criticism, avoid reading bad comments, consider those like me a vocal minority, ignore feedback and then seek comfort among your circle-jerking fanboys... at the end of the day, you'll still have to face those pathetic sales numbers. Karma is a bitch, eh?

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No one is a jerk for merely offering criticism.

Someone IS a jerk if they donate $100 to a cause thinking they are making a purchase, and then when they don't like how the cause is going, asks for their money back and tries to somehow make their error the cause's fault.

It's like, sure, I'll donate $100 to save the whales. Hey, you guys aren't saving whales in exactly the way that I was expecting. Therefore f*** the whales and give me my money back.

To be fair, you are not the only person who has done this. Even mainstream game journalists took way too long to figure out that Kickstarter is not a store. Some of them probably still haven't figured it out.

ALSO TO BE FAIR: I think a lot of people were probably jerks in this thread. Not just you.

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Yeah yeah, we've been through those retarded arguments over and over again... you say they are still saving whales, I say they moved to save dolphins, and it's something none of us can prove. I say I funded a old-school adventure game, you say I donated to Double Fine do whatever game they wanted to make, or that their game IS old-school... None of us has teh truth in this, only differing view points on a subjective matter that has no clear definitions or rules.

That's why I never demanded a refund or threatened to sue them, just asked about it, and then left when they denied it. If that alone was enough to make Tim so butthurt, he clearly isn't confident in his work...

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On the plus side, you(r online persona) got immortalized in the documentary. And isn't that worth the price of admission by itself?

Better to be reviled than forgotten, right?

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That's why I never demanded a refund or threatened to sue them, just asked about it, and then left when they denied it. If that alone was enough to make Tim so butthurt, he clearly isn't confident in his work...
By that logic, if you were so confident in your viewpoint, you wouldn't have been bothered by what Tim said. And yet here you are.

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By that logic, if you were so confident in your viewpoint, you wouldn't have been bothered by what Tim said. And yet here you are.

Nice try, but I have a thick skin and was never bothered by being called bad names. The only thing that annoys me is the hypocrisy of Double Fine, with all this restrictive moderation, censorship and "be civil" bullshit, but then calling others "jerks" and "shit" in their videos.

Tim can call me a jerk as much as he want, as long as I can also call him for the shitty con artist he became.

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Double Fine has restrictive moderation? If you think that's the case, check my post history.

You're a boring rabble-rouser and a drama queen. This game and this company have a ton of faults, but for fuck's sake, he called you a "jerk". Get over it, sweetie.

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I get the OP point but just came to say this:

Your notion of "old school adventure" and "classic point-and-click adventure" are completelly distorced. LucasArts weren't the only ones doing adventure games, with many classics not using verbs. What defines a old school adventure is not the use of verbs for sure.

And jerk isn't that bad, don't over react.

ps: CARA, BRAZIL VAI PERDER NA FASE DE GRUPOS DA COPA uheUheuheUhehu

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Tim can call me a jerk as much as he want, as long as I can also call him for the shitty con artist he became.

This is all I can imagine when you say stuff like that:

CFgGvbB.jpg

You really think he's out to con us or something? Really? You've watched this whole documentary and the thing you've gotten from it is that Tim is a "shitty con artist." Uh.. huh...

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can we get this guy out of this forum and close this thread ? sure we can all attack him but hes just a troll and ruining the good experience the forum actually offers.

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Nice try, but I have a thick skin and was never bothered by being called bad names. The only thing that annoys me is the hypocrisy of Double Fine, with all this restrictive moderation, censorship and "be civil" bullshit, but then calling others "jerks" and "shit" in their videos.

Tim can call me a jerk as much as he want, as long as I can also call him for the shitty con artist he became.

Keep massaging reality buddy :) I guess it takes a con artist mentality to interpret obviously honest people's actions as being con artists...

can we get this guy out of this forum and close this thread ? sure we can all attack him but hes just a troll and ruining the good experience the forum actually offers.

Why? He is a backer just like you and me, and participation in backer forum was one of the rewards.

He can say whatever he wants, he actually payed DF to be able to troll here :)

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Is this post still going? I'm off the forum for a month and it still here? Wow!

How do you know Tim was calling you a jerk? He didn't mention your name, so how do you know it was you?

Oh wait!

Were you the only person to ask for a refund for your donation?

Hmmm, now let's think about that.....

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Now that it has been condoned by Tim, I just want to say you're all jerks for defending this level of puzzle difficulty, and making fun of/dismissing/ignoring all the more reasonable threads and discussions on these subjects.

Well that's a jerky thing to say.

I agree though.

But I guess we'll get new outfits in Act 2, so it's fine.

We'll all be jerks in new outfits!

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I think the OP has 'old school' confused with 'hardcore.' The devs tried to make a charming accessible game, coming back to the genre after so many years Tim has been out of it. I feel they've done a great job so far, and we've only seen half the game as it stands.

I also find what the OP suggests about demanding a refund for a kickstarter donation to go against the spirit of kickstarter. Double-fine not only delivered on their promise, they exceeded what their original intention was. But that aside, kickstarter is something you don't go back on or demand refunds over except in cases of outright consumer deception - they definitely didn't deceive here. The OP seems to have had in their head a very different vision of what would satisfy them than what the myriad of other people who donated had in mind.

If the OP wants to make a positive difference, they should be making suggestions about what they'd like to see in the second half of the game. The 'the puzzles are too easy' issue is a totally legit criticism, and something that the second half is supposedly going to address. This would be an opportunity to still make suggestions there as the game still isn't finished and there's still some time.

As for the OP's more inflammatory posts, I suggest that they make more constructive criticism because negativity helps no one - it doesn't help the dev team make a better game, and it doesn't prompt a constructive discussion among forum posters. However, based on the individual's pattern of posting thus far, I feel that they're only being inflammatory for the negative attention it brings, not for any serious reasons related to the game. This is how negativity can undermine one's credibility, as I am apt to feel this way based on such unbecoming conduct.

I would also further like to add: The adventure gaming genre of the 'old school' in general had several universal problems associated with it. Sometimes its puzzles would be either too hard or too easy for its games, causing either head-pounding frustrating or making the game basically an interactive movie. The sweet spot of balancing discovery & puzzle solving with keeping the pace of the game flowing is a tough tightrope to walk. I feel double-fine is off to a good start with the first half of broken age in that the puzzles didn't slow down the narrative thus far (thus meaning that people new to adventure game 'logic' will enjoy themselves) but do feel that they could have been slightly more challenging - I am hoping this will be addressed in act 2.

Additionally, the adventure gaming genre often had the problem of games being shorter than counterparts of other genres - due mainly to the nature of adventure games being multi-layered in their storytelling and design, with the folding space of narrative & puzzle-solving making games like "Full Throttle" for all their complicated scenes be a fairly short experience.

There's also other genre limitations like how asinine the interface of some of those 'old school' games were - a drawback that was gradually addressed over time as interfaces got simpler and got the clutter out of the way of the interaction with the world.

The point I'm trying to make with this though, is that it isn't helpful to have a rose-tinted view of the adventure gaming genre. There are certain limitations and potential pitfalls associated with the genre that we have to bear in mind even now.

That said, I feel like Broken Age thus far is a decent step forward for the genre - it taps into a great 'starting point' of accessibility, charm, and 'training' its mostly-new audience in adventure gaming logic. If the first act could be considered a warm-up for the second, then all the better.

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What's the point ?

You've finished the game (personnaly, I've never finished a game that I didn't like...).

You can make more than 100 $ just selling on ebay your special limited edition game box of the game as soon as you receive it (it's an item who is a part of videogame history, a lot of people complain about being to late to back it a this level).

You had a product you paid for (and act I costed as much as the money gained on kickstarter).

If you don't like it, you shouldn't have paid for it in the first place. Kickstarter works that way, you takes the risk. Plus, you should have left the boat earlier (when they gave refunds after they announced splitting the game in two).

It's all your fault, not double fine. :)

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I wouldn't be so hasty to declare 'caveat emptor' over this - Double Fine EXCEEDED what their original promise with the kickstarter was.

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I wouldn't be so hasty to declare 'caveat emptor' over this - Double Fine EXCEEDED what their original promise with the kickstarter was.

I don't know if it was explicitly stated but I backed the documentary and "whatever game they managed to make"... not any specific game or a specific quality.

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@Spacedad, carefully reading my OP should answer everything you posted, but since you went through the trouble of writing all this, I'll reply.

I think the OP has ‘old school’ confused with ‘hardcore.’ The devs tried to make a charming accessible game, coming back to the genre after so many years Tim has been out of it. I feel they’ve done a great job so far, and we’ve only seen half the game as it stands.
Subjective, we can't agree on a definition of old-school, but the games we're talking about were played by many of us as kids (and with no guides). I hardly would call something like Monkey Island "HARDCORE", especially when compared to Sierra's titles around the same time, that were games you could actually die, fail or get stuck in a impossible situation.
I also find what the OP suggests about demanding a refund for a kickstarter donation to go against the spirit of kickstarter. Double-fine not only delivered on their promise, they exceeded what their original intention was. But that aside, kickstarter is something you don’t go back on or demand refunds over except in cases of outright consumer deception - they definitely didn’t deceive here. The OP seems to have had in their head a very different vision of what would satisfy them than what the myriad of other people who donated had in mind.

For the nth time, I never demanded a refund, only asked if it was possible, and then left when it was denied. Also, don't act as if you're a spokesperson of what "the myriad of other people" that backed this project wanted. We're talking about more than 90k people from all over the world, so speak only for yourself.

Besides, Kickstarter is a new thing, that has no clear rules. You're telling me that it is "against the original intention" to ask for a refund, but that's your belief & moral compass, not a hard rule or anything like that.

If the OP wants to make a positive difference, they should be making suggestions about what they'd like to see in the second half of the game. The 'the puzzles are too easy' issue is a totally legit criticism, and something that the second half is supposedly going to address. This would be an opportunity to still make suggestions there as the game still isn't finished and there's still some time.

Heh, you say that after this recent episode showing DF's staff telling they don't like to read negative feedback? Even the 2PP guy interviewing talks about feedback for a harder Act 2, but Tim just dismiss it and says that "everyone but the hardcore people are satisfied"... and we all know "you can't please everyone".

As for the OP's more inflammatory posts, I suggest that they make more constructive criticism because negativity helps no one - it doesn't help the dev team make a better game, and it doesn't prompt a constructive discussion among forum posters. However, based on the individual's pattern of posting thus far, I feel that they're only being inflammatory for the negative attention it brings, not for any serious reasons related to the game. This is how negativity can undermine one's credibility, as I am apt to feel this way based on such unbecoming conduct.

No, fuck that pathetic ad hominem. The points myself and other people like me are posting about the game stand by themselves, they don't need to come from "a respectful member of this community" to be more valid.

This "credibility requirement" leads only to retarded circle-jerking. A bug report coming from a troll or the most active poster here has the same value, and so should any other kind of feedback. Debate the argument, not the person behind it.

I would also further like to add: The adventure gaming genre of the 'old school' in general had several universal problems associated with it. Sometimes its puzzles would be either too hard or too easy for its games, causing either head-pounding frustrating or making the game basically an interactive movie. The sweet spot of balancing discovery & puzzle solving with keeping the pace of the game flowing is a tough tightrope to walk. I feel double-fine is off to a good start with the first half of broken age in that the puzzles didn't slow down the narrative thus far (thus meaning that people new to adventure game 'logic' will enjoy themselves) but do feel that they could have been slightly more challenging - I am hoping this will be addressed in act 2.

Additionally, the adventure gaming genre often had the problem of games being shorter than counterparts of other genres - due mainly to the nature of adventure games being multi-layered in their storytelling and design, with the folding space of narrative & puzzle-solving making games like "Full Throttle" for all their complicated scenes be a fairly short experience.

With a guide yes, but it took me days to get through the game when I first played it, thanks precisely to the puzzles "slowing down the narrative". Amusing, no? It's almost as if they were designed that way...

There's also other genre limitations like how asinine the interface of some of those 'old school' games were - a drawback that was gradually addressed over time as interfaces got simpler and got the clutter out of the way of the interaction with the world.

You say it made interaction easier, I say it reduced the possibilities of interaction. Both of us are correct, but to you it's worth it, while for me it isn't.

The point I'm trying to make with this though, is that it isn't helpful to have a rose-tinted view of the adventure gaming genre. There are certain limitations and potential pitfalls associated with the genre that we have to bear in mind even now.

Think a bit about how hypocritical you're being here. I have no problem with people enjoying Broken Age, for it's accessibility and "effortless storytelling", but people like you seem bent on telling me that I can't enjoy the old games and their "limitations & pitfalls" exactly as they were... instead I have to hear how it's all nostalgia and rose-colored glasses.

That said, I feel like Broken Age thus far is a decent step forward for the genre - it taps into a great 'starting point' of accessibility, charm, and 'training' its mostly-new audience in adventure gaming logic. If the first act could be considered a warm-up for the second, then all the better.

Cool, but wasn't this kickstarter about old fans finally getting a classic adventure from the guy that made several of the classics? Take the money from the old fans and use it to make something for the new ones, is that what you're approving here? Do you think that was the people that never heard of Tim Schafer before, or never cared about adventure games, that came in to give him money?

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For the nth time, I never demanded a refund, only asked if it was possible, and then left when it was denied.

Please don't play dumb. It makes you sound like the schoolkid in the teacher's office who goes 'I was just playing' when you get caught hitting the kid in front of you. There's no way you couldn't know how inflammatory your choice of thread topic and request in the OP was - downplaying it by splitting hairs over the language only shows that you want to abdicate responsibility for your antagonistic actions.

Heh, you say that after this recent episode showing DF’s staff telling they don’t like to read negative feedback? Even the 2PP guy interviewing talks about feedback for a harder Act 2, but Tim just dismiss it and says that “everyone but the hardcore people are satisfied”... and we all know “you can’t please everyone”.

The person who was saying that had more to say about it than you're making it sound - it's understandable during a game's launch to want to ride the game's high for a bit after it launching, and being reluctant to bring down that high by reading a few of the negative reviews is pretty normal for anyone really. The same guy even said that he DOES read the negative reviews later, when he's psychologically prepared for it, a detail that I notice you neglected to note. They're also talking about article comments rather than reviews alone - people making 'this is shit' type comments and the like that aren't very valuable and a general let-down. Meanwhile - if you don't believe that double fine listens to feedback from its customers, then you really don't know double fine.

As to the rest of your post - though there are some legit criticisms in some of your points, you seem bent on pitching things a certain way no matter what is said to you, so I'm going to disengage with you for the time being. I will be happy to chat with you again if you return with constructive feedback regarding the game, but I've said all I care to say about this topic, as the 'meta' discussion of paranoid speculation about intentions is not terribly valuable in any form. What I find particularly insulting is that you are quick to accuse others of hypocrisy and ad-hominem but you yourself pepper your posts with loaded statements like calling Tim a 'con artist' which are not helpful and quite frankly boring to read. (Which is the kind of pointless negativity I was referring to in the segment where YOU accused ME of ad hominem.) This is very transparent projection, and not really fooling me. I'll be back when you have something serious to say pertaining to how the game might be improved, or what you might like to see in act 2. Otherwise, I'm not really interested in feeding you the negative attention you apparently seem to crave.

I also wouldn't waste your time if I were you replying to this post since I won't read it unless it pertains strictly to serious constructive feedback about act 2, and doesn't include inflammatory nonsense. If you feel you need to take me down a peg in another lengthy paragraph-by-paragraph post, then you're really not posting here for the right reasons. If you want to cast that insultingly as a 'circle jerk' then go ahead and be my guest - antagonizing fans of the game rather than reasoning with them as equals is an almost certain way to never get anything accomplished.

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Please don't play dumb. It makes you sound like the schoolkid in the teacher's office who goes 'I was just playing' when you get caught hitting the kid in front of you. There's no way you couldn't know how inflammatory your choice of thread topic and request in the OP was - downplaying it by splitting hairs over the language only shows that you want to abdicate responsibility for your antagonistic actions.

Yes, I should have know that Double Fine is so special and sensitive that simply asking for a refund in their appropriate forum would spark a massive drama and turn me into a inflammatory, antagonistic jerk. How evil I am, I even went away as soon as they replied.

And don't say that I am the one splitting hairs over language, when you are the one clearly replacing my words for loaded ones.

As to the rest of your post - though there are some legit criticisms in some of your points, you seem bent on pitching things a certain way no matter what is said to you, so I'm going to disengage with you for the time being.

"I don't like your tone, so I'll ignore you and whatever valid criticisms you raise." No wonder you fit so well here... have fun with all your wonderful constructive criticism, while your beloved developers curse and blame everyone else for their own failures.

But don't worry, you won't have to see me here anymore... unless Tim decides to call me again, that is.

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I knew you'd leave if someone called you out on your BS and backed you into a corner.

23mqyaa.jpg

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

PS - THIS is the "appropriate" place to ask for a refund: support@doublefine.com

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I knew you'd leave if someone called you out on your BS and backed you into a corner.

Oh, what happened to "you have some valid points, but I have no more interest in this"? As soon as I turn my back, you suddenly regain interest and start gloating, as if you had won anything? Such a man... you guys deserve to be fucked over by such a shitty developer.

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Hey, look at who still has to get the last word in, in spite of saying they were on their way out.

Yes yes, we all know by now you're only here to troll and insult the people here for attention. Thanks for more evidence there.

You had an opportunity to be civil, but based on your previous inflammatory posts, I seriously doubted you would go for it. You're seriously incapable of making a post that doesn't involve some kind of rash insult to the other backers or the devs. That you're playing dumb about how toxic you are is typical troll BS. Excuse me while I don't even pretend to take you seriously anymore.

Also - Once again, if you genuinely want to pursue a refund, THIS is the appropriate place for it: support@doublefine.com

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guys really, what the hell is wrong with you people. Sure the guy might have been a bit too direct with his critique for comfort, but you can hardly say he's trolling! He does make a point which plenty of other people also made. I don't agree with the way he made his point, but nonetheless, he backed for 100$, so you can bet he's a real fan of Tim's work. Now when a fan is disappointed with your game, it's in your own intrest to at least listen to his point. DF won't gain anything at all from people just saying how stellar they are, nothing improves a product/company/whatever like constructive criticism, you need to stay in touch with reality and every interpretation of your game can be a meaningful one! The community gets a say in the project for good AND bad, we shouldn't be afraid af saying what we think. Some people take al this way too personal! it's only a game, people are dying in syria for christ's sake!

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Hey, look at who still has to get the last word in, in spite of saying they were on their way out.

Only you can do it, eh? Only Tim Schafer can be uncivil, eh?

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^^^

Edit: Hey look, he's still here. Again, not surprised.

There's constructive feedback and then there's asking for a refund on a backer-donation forum, followed by insulting posts about the 'hugbox' of people here, and insults hurled at the dev team.

If he'd made a point by point thread about his criticisms of the shortcomings of the game, everything would be fine and dandy and we might have gotten a worthwhile discussion out of things. But the toxic negativity helps no one and solves nothing.

What am I supposed to do with someone who automatically thinks I and other backers are idiot fanboys for not sharing their opinion? What are the devs supposed to do with someone who asks for a refund and calls the lead dev a 'con artist'? Nothing positive can come from that.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy of negativity to boot because his suspicions about us being idiots and the dev being being evil are 'confirmed' by the negative reactions that are automatically stirred up by being inflammatory - all I can really do is call him on his BS until he either decides to be civil or he leaves.

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