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Cryocore

Not happy, and Tim needs to explain why the game is in this state

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Puzzles were not only very easy, they were not very creative at all.

...

The dialogs, I thought they were ok, but I did not like the fact that one could exhaust all dialog options with a character in a quick rush.

...

Except for the end of the chapter twist, everything is too straight forward.

...

I did not think it was very funny, I did not think it was insightful about the theme.

A little over-critical, my friend. Your criticisms are exaggerated.

Sure, many puzzles were straight-forward, but others were clever. I liked the way Shay had to break out of his cycle of tedium. The head shrinking puzzle was a little tricky. Plus I found it profoundly satisfying to spray a couple of overdressed and narcissistic girls with fish chum.

The dialog was more than OK, it was great! Agree that I'd like more of it, especially when returning to an interesting character. Some of the Meriloft characters were begging for some witty conversation!

Too straight forward? I don't know. Merrick was quite intriguing. The whole purpose of the Shay Trek is still vague. There's the whole Sugar/Steel Bunting question of how and why they changed. And Project Dandelion? Still many questions that need answering.

Not very funny? I dare you to not to laugh as Curtis passes you his stool.

Finally, the most important point, the game is not finished yet. Let's see what happens in the second Act.

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For the amount of money and time, as well as the promises made the first half of the game is a disgrace and the fact I paid for a limited collectors edition just makes me extremely angry.

Tim "I designed too much game" Schafer, you lied. Unless of course Act II is more than 3 times the length of Act I. You make a game using the legacy of Monkey Island, and Grim Fandango, and produce a childish game with simplistic puzzles and limited interaction. The length is bad enough, but to treat everyone like a special needs child is insulting, and Tim you flat out lied. This is no homage to the Lucasarts legacy, this is the same childish drivel vomited out for ADHD 9 year olds, and you should be ashamed for whats been released.

I completed Act I in 2 hours, so we're looking at a 4 hour game! Well that is pathetic based on the time and money given to this project.

Utterly pathetic.

Hey sixposts, you must be devastated, dont let rip so soon, act II may be 3 time's longer! your rant is over. and you say Tim is a lier, so to that all i can say is 'HE LIEEEEEDDDDD A DONATION TO MAAAAAASIVE CHALICE OUUUTTTT OF YOUUUUUUUUUU'

and btw, dont pretend that wasn't hilarious.

i bet you missed out on the Guybrush Threapwood conversation montage in the 7th bird's nest!

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A little over-critical, my friend. Your criticisms are exaggerated.

Sure, many puzzles were straight-forward, but others were clever. I liked the way Shay had to break out of his cycle of tedium. The head shrinking puzzle was a little tricky. Plus I found it profoundly satisfying to spray a couple of overdressed and narcissistic girls with fish chum.

I found the shrinking puzzle to be no puzzle at all, it was completely obvious what had to be done you just had to find your way around the spaceship, a very, very easy puzzle for classic adventure games, I solved it immediately. You can't say it was not clear what needed to be done and how... About the "shallow" girls depiction... seen that a 1000 times... nothing remotely new there.

The dialog was more than OK, it was great! Agree that I'd like more of it, especially when returning to an interesting character. Some of the Meriloft characters were begging for some witty conversation!

Don't agree. Nothing stuck with me. I'd like to know your list of favourite lines and how many are they.

Too straight forward? I don't know. Merrick was quite intriguing. The whole purpose of the Shay Trek is still vague. There's the whole Sugar/Steel Bunting question of how and why they changed. And Project Dandelion? Still many questions that need answering.

There are questions, but the game itself so far was very straight forward. A room in the ship you can't enter? ok, but nothing to do about it, not even dialog options from shay about it!!... he rolled with it as he rolled with many things.

Vella had everything WAY too straightforward. I cannot think of a single interesting puzzle or situation.

The riddle was ruined with grotesque hints!

Not very funny? I dare you to not to laugh as Curtis passes you his stool.

No, I'm not super tough on comedy but did not find curtis funny. Plus alll characters were used for something specific once and for a story about 2 teenagers with "initiative" their dialog options were pretty flat.

I found the game "nicy", lacking punch. Not enough darkness explored with the wolf (worst on Vella's side). No clever puzzles. It is clearly made for a wider audience a not for old timers.

Compare this game to DOTT, FTT or GF. Compare, characters, dialog, and puzzles, do you think they aimed at something like those games?

I do not think so.

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Compare this game to DOTT, FTT or GF. Compare, characters, dialog, and puzzles, do you think they aimed at something like does games?

I do not think so.

I DO! Guess we're at an impasse.

Also, I could share with you my list of favourite lines, but I'm worried I'd break the forum.

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You really mean that about puzzles could be compared?

In terms of:

1. Creativity? (name the 3 top puzzles of this game interms of creativity)

2. Difficulty? (name the 3 most diffcult puzzles of this game)

I challenge you to compare those with the ones in DOTT.

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You really mean that about puzzles could be compared?

In terms of:

1. Creativity? (name the 3 top puzzles of this game interms of creativity)

2. Difficulty? (name the 3 most diffcult puzzles of this game)

I challenge you to compare those with the ones in DOTT.

I challenge you to enjoy yourself and stop comparing Broken Age to everything else.

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Why dou I feel that not even polite criticism is welcome?

This is a feedback forum...

I really tried to enjoy and I did to an extent... finished it quickly and was not impressed.

BA like every game, every, movie, book, etc., is subject to fair equivalent comparisons

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You really mean that about puzzles could be compared?

In terms of:

1. Creativity? (name the 3 top puzzles of this game interms of creativity)

2. Difficulty? (name the 3 most diffcult puzzles of this game)

I challenge you to compare those with the ones in DOTT.

No, I just really don't care that they're not as hard and I don't think the puzzles being a bit easier constitutes a broken promise. Also yes, I do think they are about as creative as the puzzles in DOTT. I'm not going to play your silly 'name 3 puzzles' game, but for example I thought the head shrinking one was creative. I didn't find it hard, but I thought it was creative and fun to solve. I think the star map puzzle was creative, too. I'm sure we'll get more in Act 2, as well, doesn't it seem a LITTLE unfair to compare act one of a game with a complete different game?

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Eh, well since I had some time...

Lines I liked, both jokes and half-jokes and lines I just thought were cool:

"I'm always the centre of any room I'm in."

"Centre of MASS, maybe."

...Everything the spoon says, but especially his monologue at the start if you don't pick him up...

...the knife's responses, too...

"Help me! I'm lactose intolerant!"

"This is a terrible thing to happen to us! Especially because it seems SO PREVENTABLE!" (I just love the delivery of this line)

"If only there were a HEROIC GENIUS on the train!"

"Wolf costumes don't knit themselves, you know."

The names of all the cereals. Especially Nebulumps. And Crispy Bunches o' Space.

"Stay on the twigs or you'll... eat a pig!"

"No freestyling, Ch't."

"Heck, let's just call a death ray a death ray."

"Humiliation! Humiliation!" meltdown

"I'msurehehadhisreasons!"

"You can hear everything I say?"

"Yes. Try not to say anything embarrassing."

"I guess I'll just leave you alone."

"Just like Mog Chothra did. Yeah, don't worry, I'm used to it."

I really like how all the systems Marek was getting you to go to had exaggeratedly dangerous names like "Danger System 5" and "Prima Doom"

the call back to "Small things.... can surprise you!" and similarly the callback of "time to split THIS cupcake!"

"I'm Dead Eye Dawn. And this is Dead Eye Courtney."

The various responses you can give when you first run into Curtis and he thinks you're a tree.

"Vella, don't make this any harder than it already is" - found that line kind of heartbreaking, hinting that deep down they know how messed up the situation is.

I could go on and on and on with lines I really liked in this game, but suffice to say I liked a LOT of them.

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No need to play my game, no need to call it silly... its a pretty valid proposal anyway.

I wrote already aboy the head puzzle... nothing to add to prevoious description of it and arguments.

The starmap was also straight forward... no curve balls there. You just had to place "x" in the right spot!!! How is that creative???

The hardest part for me was doing it quickly due to the awkward way inventory items are used... I clicked it and got the description, and had to open invetory again in order to drag it out.

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No need to play my game, no need to call it silly... its a pretty valid proposal anyway.

I wrote already aboy the head puzzle... nothing to add to prevoious description of it and arguments.

The starmap was also straight forward... no curve balls there. You just had to place "x" in the right spot!!! How is that creative???

The hardest part for me was doing it quickly due to the awkward way inventory items are used... I clicked it and got the description, and had to open invetory again in order to drag it out.

Look, what you're doing here is arguing with the FACT that I enjoyed the puzzle, as did many other people. This is a ridiculous thing to do.

You don't get to have an objective opinion on how enjoyable the puzzles were. Sorry that you think you do, but you don't. I found many of the puzzles in Broken Age creative and enjoyable. That's a fact. I'm not lying. You're not lying either, but the point is all that's going to happen if I play this (YES) silly game of naming all the puzzles I liked is that you're going to come along and say 'no, they're not good'.

What's the bloody point? You don't have a monopoly on the view of whether the puzzles were creative or not.

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well I guess we do have a different taste on humor... for example "the humiliation" meltdown I did not find it funny.

I hated all the lines of the small wool beings in the simulated missions... the obvious hints were not funny tome.. then again maybe taste... BUT I can argue it follows that pattern over and over again... in fact I found it more irratating than anything... wanted to burn those fluffy wool beings...

The other thing I disliked about dialog is that everybody (girls and their families) were happy, eager, and content with the sacrifice..

I would have expected at least a big portion of them doing it out of fear... but some of them found the idea of putting up a fight even mean to the monster

I mean I would have expected a better job at depicting the two sides of the story... plus Vella just keeps suggesting they should fight using the same frase, no counter argument... never points out how can they enojoy and cheer watching the girls devoured... I don't know I found it immersion breaking

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Never though to refute the fact you enjoyed them you miss read me there (which by the way I am glad, believe it or not... good for you). I was discussing creativity. How it is elaborated, presented, if it has twists, etc, out of the box thinking, clever ways of pointing towards the solution.

Shay, for example, says right away "I should try changing the pattern with needle thext time we are about to travel" HE told me the solution to an easy puzzle!! thats lacking a creative way of hinting.

Again, no need to play the game, but I think even though taste is a part of it there are common elements that can be depicted about something intelligent and creative... Otherwise there would't be so many people earning their money by writing reviews and the success of the puzzles of games would be totally random.

Adventure gamers always speak about the puzzles and anaylize them etc. Again don't do it, but propossing it is not ridiculous.

And of course I do not thing I am the universal judge of fun.

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Broken Age looks and plays like a game that has had several million dollars and some hopes and dreams invested in it.
Sorry, can´t agree on that.

Speakers and Music -> YES!

Graphics -> Not really!

Story -> Not really!

Puzzles -> Which puzzles? Didn´t find real ones!

Overall -> In the style of classic point and click adventure games -> total fail.

It´s without a doubt enjoyable.

But it´s not a to be taken serious adventure game (as "promised", better as shown credibly during the ks campaign).

Just my opinion and just judging act 1.

Even if act 2 will be 100% different I would be still disappointet because the casual introduction (act 1) is way to long for a real classic adventure.

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Yeah at least we should be able to agree that it is not an old school game AS PROMISED (even if some loved the game anyway).

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Yeah at least we should be able to agree that it is not an old school game AS PROMISED (even if some loved the game anyway).
No, we don't all agree with that so please get over yourself already.

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Also I've seen a few people who said it was never promised that it would be "old school" in style.

Let me quote from the actual kickstarter page

Other than that it will be an old school adventure, we're not sure.

It *was* promised it would be oldschool in style. Broken Age is a decent game, but it certainly isn't old school at all.

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Also I've seen a few people who said it was never promised that it would be "old school" in style.

Let me quote from the actual kickstarter page

Other than that it will be an old school adventure, we're not sure.

It *was* promised it would be oldschool in style. Broken Age is a decent game, but it certainly isn't old school at all.

Yeah it is.

See how we can all assert things? Some people claimed it wasn't old school because it didn't have retro-pixelly graphics. Some people claim that the puzzles have to be some unspecified threshold of difficulty before it gets to be old school. Some people think it's about verbs. I think an old school adventure game is a story-driven game where you walk around locations and interact with characters and solve puzzles which are mostly to do with dialogue or using items in your inventory.

So there.

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You don't get to have an objective opinion on how enjoyable the puzzles were. Sorry that you think you do, but you don't. I found many of the puzzles in Broken Age creative and enjoyable. That's a fact. I'm not lying. You're not lying either, but the point is all that's going to happen if I play this (YES) silly game of naming all the puzzles I liked is that you're going to come along and say 'no, they're not good'.

Correct.

Also he's wrong cause the puzzles in Broken Age are A LOT more creative and a LOT bigger. Just take a screenshot of a broken age puzzle and a screenshot of a DOTT puzzle and you will see that the BA puzzle has a lot more pixels which makes it more creative and bigger. Even if a pixel of BA would only be 50% as enjoyable as a DOTT pixel BA would still win!

For example: The maximum any given BA screen can achieve is 2.073.600 pixels of creativity (given a Full HD resolution), the maximum enjoyment capacity of DOTT is just 64.000 Pixels! That means a pixel in Broken Age only has to be about 3,1% as funny as a pixel in DOTT and it would still win.

Can we please stop now with trying to apply objectiveness to a completely subjective thing?

It is completely OK if one is disappointed with the game but in the same way it must be OK if one is disappointed it must be OK if one likes the game.

I am somewhat torn and consider some other contemporary adventures better than Broken Age which is sad but still my subjective point of view.

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Never said it was noy ok to like it, read my above post. I eve said I am honestly happy some people enjoyed it a lot.

And I don't telle them to get over themselves as some have told me.

And I do not think puzzles are COMPLETELY subjective.

Tim doesn's think so (he tackles the subjecvt about puzzles in the documentary).

If puzzles were completely subjective then chances of making a good puzzle game would be completely random and I don't think you are willing to take it that far, are you?

Thinngs are not 100% subjective or objective.

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I may have to agree, it's subjective.

Some people will find amusing to use some feathers shoe on a ladder to access a nest to replace an golden egg with another that you, literally, fell on to, use the same ladder to acquire another golden egg from another nest, place them (or a fruit hidden in a distant corner of some scene) on nest like spots so you can walk up a ladder to talk to a bearded man that gives you yet another golden egg that you have to place in the remaining nest like spot so you can climb down that ladder... hmmmm I see some repetitions here.

Others would prefer to get some sense of accomplishment switching a decaf pot with a regular coffee pot so the crazy scientist would sleep and sleepwalk and open a safe that you wouldn't be able to open by yourself if you haven't found a left hand hammer to give to the right character in the past so he can change the arms positions on a statue in the present, so a crazy nurse won't be able to hold on to it once she is kicked away the security camera room, so you can place a VHS tape and record a scene where the crazy scientist is opening the safe, play the recording in slow motion so it would reveal the code that you would use to open the safe and get the contract that you would have to mail in the past using the stamp you've acquired dumping some invisible ink in the crazy scientist's son's stamp collection, so the crazy scientist family would be entitled 1 million dollars in royalties for the previous game, which you would use to buy an imitation diamond using the family's account number that you've found in some office desk drawer to finally restore a time machine that would rescue some friends from the past and future if they had also done their part somehow.

Wait. Maybe it's not that subjective...

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I may have to agree, it's subjective.

Some people will find amusing to use some feathers shoe on a ladder to access a nest to replace an egg that you, literally, fell on to, use the same ladder to acquire another one from another nest, place them (or a fruit hidden in a distant corner of some scene) on nest like spots so you can walk up a ladder to talk to a bearded man that gives you another golden egg that you have to place in the remaining nest like spot so you can climb down that ladder... hmmmm I see some repetitions here.

Others would prefer to get some sense of accomplishment switching a decaf pot with a regular coffee pot so the crazy scientist would sleep and sleepwalk and open a safe that you wouldn't be able to open by yourself if you haven't found a left hand hammer to give to the right character in the past so he can change the arms positions on a statue in the present, so a crazy nurse won't be able to hold on to it once she is kicked away the security camera room, so you can place a VHS tape and record a scene where the crazy scientist is opening the safe, play the recording in slow motion so it would reveal the code that you would use to open the safe and get the contract that you would have to mail in the past using the stamp you've acquired dumping some invisible ink in the crazy scientist's son's stamp collection, so the crazy scientist family would be entitled 1 million dollars in royalties for the previous game, which you would use to buy an imitation diamond using the family's account number that you've found in some office desk drawer to finally restore a time machine that would rescue some friends from the past and future if they had also done their part somehow.

Wait. Maybe it's not that subjective...

Gee, that's fair, comparing multiple puzzles constituting a large portion of the game to a single (albeit 3 part) puzzle. For your next trick maybe compare the whole of full throttle to the head shrinking puzzle.

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I may have to agree, it's subjective.

Some people will find amusing to use some feathers shoe on a ladder to access a nest to replace an egg that you, literally, fell on to, use the same ladder to acquire another one from another nest, place them (or a fruit hidden in a distant corner of some scene) on nest like spots so you can walk up a ladder to talk to a bearded man that gives you another golden egg that you have to place in the remaining nest like spot so you can climb down that ladder... hmmmm I see some repetitions here.

Others would prefer to get some sense of accomplishment switching a decaf pot with a regular coffee pot so the crazy scientist would sleep and sleepwalk and open a safe that you wouldn't be able to open by yourself if you haven't found a left hand hammer to give to the right character in the past so he can change the arms positions on a statue in the present, so a crazy nurse won't be able to hold on to it once she is kicked away the security camera room, so you can place a VHS tape and record a scene where the crazy scientist is opening the safe, play the recording in slow motion so it would reveal the code that you would use to open the safe and get the contract that you would have to mail in the past using the stamp you've acquired dumping some invisible ink in the crazy scientist's son's stamp collection, so the crazy scientist family would be entitled 1 million dollars in royalties for the previous game, which you would use to buy an imitation diamond using the family's account number that you've found in some office desk drawer to finally restore a time machine that would rescue some friends from the past and future if they had also done their part somehow.

Wait. Maybe it's not that subjective...

I also enjoyed the puzzles in DOTT more than in BA - a whole lot I might say. That's (I think) partly because I liked the weird DOTT-style better and partly because of the fond memories that of course re-inforce over time. So that's a hard combination to beat. If I had a say I would crank the puzzle-meter in Broken Age WAY up. So I agree with you in your subjective view of the puzzles. But that was not my point:

The enjoyment you (or anyone) get out of it is still completly subjective. Other people might say they are more happy with more "logical" puzzles and think DOTT's are too cryptic. That would be their subjective view then.

So yes, it's still subjective. It's fair to say you did not like the puzzles, it's fair to give reasons for that (which I share!) and voice your opinion but I think it's nonesense to try to convince people that they should also be disappointed if in fact they are happy with the puzzles the way they are - especially using objective means like comparing the complexity (which you did in your post).

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Also I've seen a few people who said it was never promised that it would be "old school" in style.

Let me quote from the actual kickstarter page

Other than that it will be an old school adventure, we're not sure.

It *was* promised it would be oldschool in style. Broken Age is a decent game, but it certainly isn't old school at all.

Yeah it is.

See how we can all assert things? Some people claimed it wasn't old school because it didn't have retro-pixelly graphics. Some people claim that the puzzles have to be some unspecified threshold of difficulty before it gets to be old school. Some people think it's about verbs. I think an old school adventure game is a story-driven game where you walk around locations and interact with characters and solve puzzles which are mostly to do with dialogue or using items in your inventory.

So there.

Yes, except that's not how it works. By your definition, every single adventure game ever released is an old school adventure game. Hell, according to your definition even a lot of games in other genres like some RPGs, sidescrolling games & platformers count as old school adventure games. Hell, Fallout 2 or Ultima VII would count as old school adventure games - in both games you " walk around locations and interact with characters and solve puzzles which are mostly to do with dialogue or using items in your inventory", are story driven, etc.

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Also I've seen a few people who said it was never promised that it would be "old school" in style.

Let me quote from the actual kickstarter page

Other than that it will be an old school adventure, we're not sure.

It *was* promised it would be oldschool in style. Broken Age is a decent game, but it certainly isn't old school at all.

Yeah it is.

See how we can all assert things? Some people claimed it wasn't old school because it didn't have retro-pixelly graphics. Some people claim that the puzzles have to be some unspecified threshold of difficulty before it gets to be old school. Some people think it's about verbs. I think an old school adventure game is a story-driven game where you walk around locations and interact with characters and solve puzzles which are mostly to do with dialogue or using items in your inventory.

So there.

Yes, except that's not how it works. By your definition, every single adventure game ever released is an old school adventure game. Hell, according to your definition even a lot of games in other genres like some RPGs, sidescrolling games & platformers count as old school adventure games. Hell, Fallout 2 or Ultima VII would count as old school adventure games - in both games you " walk around locations and interact with characters and solve puzzles which are mostly to do with dialogue or using items in your inventory", are story driven, etc.

No it wouldn't I wouldn't say that some of those games you described are 'story driven' and even fewer of them have any focus at all on interacting with characters and solving puzzles mostly to do with dialogue or using items in the inventory. A few of them might be borderline cases...

But before we get into an entirely tedious side discussion about definitions of adventure games, I don't need to be able to come up with a perfect, watertight definition of adventure game to know what one is.

I can't even come up with a perfect watertight definition of 'table' without running into difficulty. But I still know what one is, and Broken Age is an old school adventure game in every way I've EVER considered important. I've been a fan of the genre since 1991. So what am I a liar, deluded or just someone with a different opinion about what's important (one which is largely shared judging by the high level of satisfaction with the game)?

I expect you think I'm deluded. Well, good luck with that childish notion.

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... I think it's nonesense to try to convince people that they should also be disappointed if in fact they are happy with the puzzles the way they are - especially using objective means like comparing the complexity (which you did in your post).

I'm trying to convince. I'm trying to show why this game isn't par to old adventure games. Because I know that if there isn't more unsatisfied people with game, it won't be repaired properly.

From what I've been reading here and from what Tim has been saying, they are pleased with a toned down disconnected puzzles short game.

The least I can do is try to show some arguments and convince more fellow backers that the game can be (much) better.

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Also I've seen a few people who said it was never promised that it would be "old school" in style.

Let me quote from the actual kickstarter page

Other than that it will be an old school adventure, we're not sure.

It *was* promised it would be oldschool in style. Broken Age is a decent game, but it certainly isn't old school at all.

Yeah it is.

See how we can all assert things? Some people claimed it wasn't old school because it didn't have retro-pixelly graphics. Some people claim that the puzzles have to be some unspecified threshold of difficulty before it gets to be old school. Some people think it's about verbs. I think an old school adventure game is a story-driven game where you walk around locations and interact with characters and solve puzzles which are mostly to do with dialogue or using items in your inventory.

So there.

Yes, except that's not how it works. By your definition, every single adventure game ever released is an old school adventure game. Hell, according to your definition even a lot of games in other genres like some RPGs, sidescrolling games & platformers count as old school adventure games. Hell, Fallout 2 or Ultima VII would count as old school adventure games - in both games you " walk around locations and interact with characters and solve puzzles which are mostly to do with dialogue or using items in your inventory", are story driven, etc.

No it wouldn't I wouldn't say that some of those games you described are 'story driven' and even fewer of them have any focus at all on interacting with characters and solving puzzles mostly to do with dialogue or using items in the inventory. A few of them might be borderline cases...

But before we get into an entirely tedious side discussion about definitions of adventure games, I don't need to be able to come up with a perfect, watertight definition of adventure game to know what one is.

I can't even come up with a perfect watertight definition of 'table' without running into difficulty. But I still know what one is, and Broken Age is an old school adventure game in every way I've EVER considered important. I've been a fan of the genre since 1991. So what am I a liar, deluded or just someone with a different opinion about what's important (one which is largely shared judging by the high level of satisfaction with the game)?

I expect you think I'm deluded. Well, good luck with that childish notion.

Your definition of "old school adventure game" is just any game that's story driven, focuses on puzzles and character interaction and is dialogue & inventory oriented mechanically.

That's every single adventure game ever released. Meaning under your definition, every single adventure game is old school.

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Also I've seen a few people who said it was never promised that it would be "old school" in style.

Let me quote from the actual kickstarter page

Other than that it will be an old school adventure, we're not sure.

It *was* promised it would be oldschool in style. Broken Age is a decent game, but it certainly isn't old school at all.

Yeah it is.

See how we can all assert things? Some people claimed it wasn't old school because it didn't have retro-pixelly graphics. Some people claim that the puzzles have to be some unspecified threshold of difficulty before it gets to be old school. Some people think it's about verbs. I think an old school adventure game is a story-driven game where you walk around locations and interact with characters and solve puzzles which are mostly to do with dialogue or using items in your inventory.

So there.

Yes, except that's not how it works. By your definition, every single adventure game ever released is an old school adventure game. Hell, according to your definition even a lot of games in other genres like some RPGs, sidescrolling games & platformers count as old school adventure games. Hell, Fallout 2 or Ultima VII would count as old school adventure games - in both games you " walk around locations and interact with characters and solve puzzles which are mostly to do with dialogue or using items in your inventory", are story driven, etc.

No it wouldn't I wouldn't say that some of those games you described are 'story driven' and even fewer of them have any focus at all on interacting with characters and solving puzzles mostly to do with dialogue or using items in the inventory. A few of them might be borderline cases...

But before we get into an entirely tedious side discussion about definitions of adventure games, I don't need to be able to come up with a perfect, watertight definition of adventure game to know what one is.

I can't even come up with a perfect watertight definition of 'table' without running into difficulty. But I still know what one is, and Broken Age is an old school adventure game in every way I've EVER considered important. I've been a fan of the genre since 1991. So what am I a liar, deluded or just someone with a different opinion about what's important (one which is largely shared judging by the high level of satisfaction with the game)?

I expect you think I'm deluded. Well, good luck with that childish notion.

Your definition of "old school adventure game" is just any game that's story driven, focuses on puzzles and character interaction and is dialogue & inventory oriented mechanically.

That's every single adventure game ever released. Meaning under your definition, every single adventure game is old school.

Remember that thing I said where I don't have to come up with an extremely precise definition of adventure games to be able to talk about them? Your pedantry is a distraction.

The reason that I don't think, for example, The Walking Dead is an old school adventure game is because there are hardly any inventory puzzles and dialogue is used to advance plot rather than as a puzzle solving device.

On the other hand, a very large amount of the interaction in Broken Age is inventory based and dialogue is regularly a part of puzzle solving. The line is fuzzy, but it's pretty clear to me that Broken Age has old school sensibilities and The Walking Dead is doing something different (which I also quite like, but I'm not nostalgic about.) On the other hand, I would describe some of Telltale's earlier game series as Old School.

The Cave definitely has inventory puzzles, but very little dialogue or character interaction, which I think hints at old school, but I think the absence of very much dialogue puts it in the not-old-school category. Also, I think only one item at a time isn't a true inventory, so in that way it isn't old school . If it had lots of characters with dialogue trees, and inventory for characters, I'd say it was an old school adventure but with a platform interface. It'd be a weird case.

Machinarium is a weird middle ground because there are lots of inventory puzzles but also lots of other kinds of puzzles, and while there's dialogue of a sort, it's delivered in a very strange way. So I consider it an edge case but there's a lot that's old school about it.

Samorost isn't old school because there is no dialogue and it's not really story driven and the puzzles are mainly not inventory based.

Myst, I guess is from a different adventure game tradition, so is old school in its own way, but isn't what I think of as old school because I come from a background of playing games like Monkey Island with inventory items and dialogue puzzles.

It seems pretty easy to me, to figure out...

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... I think it's nonesense to try to convince people that they should also be disappointed if in fact they are happy with the puzzles the way they are - especially using objective means like comparing the complexity (which you did in your post).

I'm trying to convince. I'm trying to show why this game isn't par to old adventure games. Because I know that if there isn't more unsatisfied people with game, it won't be repaired properly.

From what I've been reading here and from what Tim has been saying, they are pleased with a toned down disconnected puzzles short game.

The least I can do is try to show some arguments and convince more fellow backers that the game can be (much) better.

Yes, and I agree that the game could be a lot better for ME and YOU with more puzzles. And given the recent poll a LOT of backers already think the puzzles were way too easy. But voicing this opinion and rallying support for it is different from trying to disproove that some people are satisfied. You won't change their view that way.

So just assemble your thoughts on how to make the game better in a productive way and you might gain support. And be realistic! A complete re-vamp is never going to work as is a change of the art style (which is subjective again, I would prefer pixel-art for that matter...) or setting or story. But I think some things can be done without hurting the games design:

For example:

I would like the game to not give hints in dialog and/or responses until a certain threshold of time and puzzle-solving-attempts has been reached. I clicked some spoilers simply by accident because I am/was used to goo thru all dialog options but I was baffled that the game offered my tips and help before I event tried to solve the puzzle myself.

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