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Cryocore

Not happy, and Tim needs to explain why the game is in this state

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@mops

A matter of taste and higher/different excpectations what i consider being an enjoyable adventure. Currently i don't see a single adventure out there being made which could get me as excited as the old LucasArts adventures were able to. The games lack budget/art/complexity/maturity/style/focus/the right mindset/... related. No idea how Tex and Armikrog will end up and they might turn out just nicely but they also aren't what i'm really after. The DFA was the big chance making it right but so far DF sadly wasted the chance.

Yeah, we as well as them put money into the game but the result, whilst trying to attract more people, just isn't convincing anymore. I would have preferred a different kind of game, one for adventure gamers only. So, maybe act 2 will be more the game i was funding, maybe an adventure coming after the DFA, we'll see but so far it's still sobering, looking at the genre or the DFA specifically.

On the bright side there is more room for other activities but honestly after so many years one great adventure wouldn't have hurt at all.

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@mops

A matter of taste and higher/different expectations what I consider being an enjoyable adventure. Currently I don't see a single adventure out there being made which could get me as excited as the old LucasArts adventures were able to.

Sorry to hear that taumel; this kind of reaction is what I consider my main issue with Broken Age - if it turns out as just another underwhelming game gameplay-wise (for the challenge seekers) that went with streamlining instead of expanding, so be it, wouldn't be the first one, won't be the last one.

But if it turns people like You (or those that consider Tim the be-all-end-all of the genre) away from adventure gaming, that would be a shame, because the last thing we need right now is people leaving the genre. I think it's a very important time for adventure games, with all these experienced developers coming back (and many more indies following), and have high hopes that at least some of them will deliver.

Sure, they don't have the budget DFA had, but I really believe Jane Jensen, Chris Jones & Aaron Conners, Scott Murphy & Mark Crowe, Cyan and all these other ladies and guys are capable, focused and passionate enough to create mature and complex games that won't be afraid to challenge the player. "Maybe I'm a dreamer", but I think there's a lot to look forward to, and hope at least some of these games will surprise You in a positive way ;)

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@mops I share your view! It's an interesting time for the genre we love so much: adventure games.

And now I want MORE of them. Also because I like/partly love Broken Age.

I have to say for 30$ I got so far 13 episodes of this great documentary, and a great game experience, a Linux version, a DRM-free Linux version (later in 2014), I really can not complain that the delivered product wouldn't be OK. It is. More than that. But it's not what I wished for. It is too much mainstream-lined, too much the UI like an IOS or Android port (sales numbers are fine with me, but not too much compromise on the main platforms).

So, Tim loves doing adventure games, doesn't he?

I present (to you the idea of): *thx.mp3* DFA2: DFOA - coming 2015.

Double Fine Adventure 2: Double Fine Oldschool Adventure

To come back to my first sentence. I believe there is a market and I believe it's possible. I remember I had to pay ~54$ for a game like Half-Life 2 around 2005 (yeah, that's another genre). And I had to pay around ~61$ for Monkey Island 3 (in the late 90s). And so around $60 for The Dig, for Full Throttle, and etc. 30$ is NOTHING for an adventure game. 30$ is really damn OK for a Kickstarter.

I'm in with more than 30$ for a new Kickstarter in 2015 to make a DF Oldschool adventure. But there should be rules: 3-verb-grid minimum (incl. Look at/Examine option!). Less focus on graphics and art, spend most of the money on the purely amount of time. Time it costs to develop tricky but clever and great real puzzles! Tim can do it. But it was rushed and too much other focus on art, style, I guess. (I LOVE the style of Broken Age though.) Puzzle design is expensive. So money should go that primarily. And platforms only: Mac, Linux, Windows. If it's portable to tablets, fine, but don't compromise it. And: It should run perfectly smooth on a five years old PC. And: They should get at least one of the following (as co-designer etc.): Dave Grossman, Noah Falstein, David Fox, Ron Gilbert. I prefer Grossman because he already worked with Tim. But all of the named are such huge names for me. They all could act as playtesters for sure! ;-)

And: oh yeah, playtesting. Far less of it. If playtesters gets frustrated that is a GOOD thing. If they don't know what to do for an amount of time, if they don't find the correct item in the first run, that -again- is a good thing. I think problem with modern playtesting like DF does it, is that for those who watch other people play, times runs a lot slower than for the the actual player. So, analyzing other people testing the game, you will get very shortly the impression that they playtester might be "frustrated" but in reality he's not. And: Puzzles. It has to have puzzles which will cost you days. If you use online walkthroughs after one day getting stuck that is your decicision, or fault, or whatever. It is not a flaw in game design.

Concering old school puzzle design, I find the lack of most people's faith in it disturbing. ;-) But really, if someone takes a walkthrough/hint solution because he gets stuck, that is that player's decision. Game designers are no nannys to players to protect them from doing that. Most often it's a bad decision a player makes. Far less it really is bad puzzle design. Talking about LucasArts, Schafer, Gilbert, etc! (Other example: Sierra had really bad puzzles. I just say Goblins 4: Woodroof and the Schnibble of Azimuth)

Enough for now. But DFA2: DFOA (2015+) would be a WIN-WIN for Double FIne, for Backers, for the genre, for everyone.

And -last but not least- making a respectable amount of $$$.

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kringel: You got my money already for your imaginary DF old school adventure game. Plus though I really, really loved the documentary (that alone was worth my money and more) the next game should use the documentary money in designing puzzles.

Hell you should create a survey regarding this idea of yours to see how many people out there are really into it.

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@mops I share your view! It's an interesting time for the genre we love so much: adventure games.

And now I want MORE of them. Also because I like/partly love Broken Age.

I have to say for 30$ I got so far 13 episodes of this great documentary, and a great game experience, a Linux version, a DRM-free Linux version (later in 2014), I really can not complain that the delivered product wouldn't be OK. It is. More than that. But it's not what I wished for. It is too much mainstream-lined, too much the UI like an IOS or Android port (sales numbers are fine with me, but not too much compromise on the main platforms).

So, Tim loves doing adventure games, doesn't he?

I present (to you the idea of): *thx.mp3* DFA2: DFOA - coming 2015.

Double Fine Adventure 2: Double Fine Oldschool Adventure

To come back to my first sentence. I believe there is a market and I believe it's possible. I remember I had to pay ~54$ for a game like Half-Life 2 around 2005 (yeah, that's another genre). And I had to pay around ~61$ for Monkey Island 3 (in the late 90s). And so around $60 for The Dig, for Full Throttle, and etc. 30$ is NOTHING for an adventure game. 30$ is really damn OK for a Kickstarter.

I'm in with more than 30$ for a new Kickstarter in 2015 to make a DF Oldschool adventure. But there should be rules: 3-verb-grid minimum (incl. Look at/Examine option!). Less focus on graphics and art, spend most of the money on the purely amount of time. Time it costs to develop tricky but clever and great real puzzles! Tim can do it. But it was rushed and too much other focus on art, style, I guess. (I LOVE the style of Broken Age though.) Puzzle design is expensive. So money should go that primarily. And platforms only: Mac, Linux, Windows. If it's portable to tablets, fine, but don't compromise it. And: It should run perfectly smooth on a five years old PC. And: They should get at least one of the following (as co-designer etc.): Dave Grossman, Noah Falstein, David Fox, Ron Gilbert. I prefer Grossman because he already worked with Tim. But all of the named are such huge names for me. They all could act as playtesters for sure! ;-)

And: oh yeah, playtesting. Far less of it. If playtesters gets frustrated that is a GOOD thing. If they don't know what to do for an amount of time, if they don't find the correct item in the first run, that -again- is a good thing. I think problem with modern playtesting like DF does it, is that for those who watch other people play, times runs a lot slower than for the the actual player. So, analyzing other people testing the game, you will get very shortly the impression that they playtester might be "frustrated" but in reality he's not. And: Puzzles. It has to have puzzles which will cost you days. If you use online walkthroughs after one day getting stuck that is your decicision, or fault, or whatever. It is not a flaw in game design.

Concering old school puzzle design, I find the lack of most people's faith in it disturbing. ;-) But really, if someone takes a walkthrough/hint solution because he gets stuck, that is that player's decision. Game designers are no nannys to players to protect them from doing that. Most often it's a bad decision a player makes. Far less it really is bad puzzle design. Talking about LucasArts, Schafer, Gilbert, etc! (Other example: Sierra had really bad puzzles. I just say Goblins 4: Woodroof and the Schnibble of Azimuth)

Enough for now. But DFA2: DFOA (2015+) would be a WIN-WIN for Double FIne, for Backers, for the genre, for everyone.

And -last but not least- making a respectable amount of $$$.

Can't tell if the posts here are being sarcastic or not, anymore.

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