Sign in to follow this  
serjay

What would you prefer for Act 2... longer game or earlier delivered?

What would you prefer for Act 2... longer game or earlier delivered?  

247 members have voted

  1. 1. What would you prefer for Act 2... longer game or earlier delivered?

    • Longer game (more puzzles, for example), but later release date
      241
    • Same length as Act 1, but earlier release date
      6


Recommended Posts

Tim said in an interview that people might not like a longer Act 2 because it would delay the release date. What do you think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Needs a 'don't mind, whatever they think would be better' option. That's what I'd pick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The time needed for this project, as long as DF can afford to do it is non-issue for me. The documentary can keep us entertained until the final arrives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Needs a 'don't mind, whatever they think would be better' option. That's what I'd pick.

If you had to choose?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd go for a longer Act 2, as long as it is ultimately delivered rather than going the way of vaporware.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2014, less animations, more puzzles, finally making an adventure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you don't care either way, just don't vote :)
You can't see the results without voting. (Unless I am wrong)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

how MUCH longer though, i almost went along with the other guy just because i needed to know stuff plus if you did bang it out quicker then the geniuses would be able to crack onto the next project quicker! (so WTF did i say longer?) that dude was right!

Im a F***ing Moron.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We waited 23 months for part 1. A few extra months for part 2 wouldn't be a bother.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder how relevant our preference about this is to DF.

Their question is probably wether they'll earn their money back by spending more time on it.

I personally think that Act 1 in it's current form, short but strong story, great cliff hanger, two characters you could identify with and easy puzzles, might bring in a lot of new adventure gamers.

But it is still a big bet.

I could imagine that for DF's own good the best option would still be to make Act 2 not too much longer and quite a bit harder and let it end with another great twist, in order to let people come back for the sequel.

Which they could produce cheaper - with a lot more tools and experience at hand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably one of the best examples I can think of is from leisure suit larry 7. One bit that impressed me heaps was that in one room of the ship, once you had finished everything there, they then had in the game bill clinton (impersonator) doing a stand up comedy routine.

The thing that was really good about it was that I listened to it for quite a while (approximately 1 hour), and it didn't repeat the same jokes. You can watch it on youtube.

When I look back now, that was a clever way of adding more content into the game, which otherwise didn't really do anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wonder how relevant our preference about this is to DF.

Well, if they want to build a smaller, easy ACT II because of whatever reason, they at least can't put the "blame" on backers because "backers would be pissed if the game was delayed". What the survey seems to indicate is that most backers wish they take as long as they need and people would strongly prefer a longer game.

(Of course there are money restrictions, but this only DF can manage and the backers have little to say).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Needs a 'don't mind, whatever they think would be better' option. That's what I'd pick.

If you had to choose?

If I absolutely had to choose. It's really difficult. Let me elaborate:

The game is designed now. It's much harder to arbitrarily lengthen a game than it is to shorten it. Sure, they had to cut stuff out, but the fact is that Act I is out there now, so I think it would be a mistake to now add stuff into Act Two willy nilly. It would risk making the thing really unbalanced in the way it's paced.

(spoilery bit below)

Reveals like the one at the end of act 1, from a storytelling perspective, I think are best placed around the midpoint of a story. Quite commonly they occur around 2/3 of the way through a story, actually, and I think that's for good dramatic reasons.

(end of spoilery bit)

So I think there are legit storytelling reasons why they wouldn't want Act 2 to come out significantly longer than Act 1.

On the other hand, I don't know exactly what they have in mind for Act 2, so my instinct about the pacing of the story is based on a lot of partial information. And I personally would like to be immersed in this world for as long as possible because I really have enjoyed exploring it. So there are some selfish reasons for me wanting a longer Act 2, as well.

So it's really too difficult to call. My instinct says that lengthening Act 2 is not as trivial a decision as just deciding to add more stuff. They have to think about how it services the storytelling as a whole and how it affects the major story beats. But the Double Fine fan in me just wants as much game as possible.

So I don't know how to answer the question. If you held me at gunpoint I might say make it longer, because even though I think it is risky for all kinds of reasons, I think they're good at solving those types of problems.

But I'd rather stick with 'I don't know'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Longer game (more puzzles, for example), but later release date
Missing a third option:

Longer game with real puzzles delivered at beginning of summer rather than at the end of 2014!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was going to vote that I don't mind waiting, but that would be a lie. I don't want it rushed either.

I trust the people working on the game to decided where the point of diminishing return will be. At some point, it will satisfy the needs of the story, not be dragged out, and not be contrived or so overblown that it makes a mockery of the first act.

Maybe there is no future for adventure games -- but we asked them to make one, and gave them a bunch of money. Act 1 shows that they're serious about it. I'm comfortable letting them decided when they're satisfied with the end product.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Needs a 'don't mind, whatever they think would be better' option. That's what I'd pick.

Agreed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's much harder to arbitrarily lengthen a game than it is to shorten it.
Well, according to Tim the game was designed THEN cut back to fit time/budgets. So, if they decide to add more into Act 2 then it seems they could pick and choose from whatever they took out.

I doubt it'll be an issue to almost anyone if Act 2 has twice as much content as Act 1. Would it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad."

-Shigeru Miyamoto

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's much harder to arbitrarily lengthen a game than it is to shorten it.
Well, according to Tim the game was designed THEN cut back to fit time/budgets. So, if they decide to add more into Act 2 then it seems they could pick and choose from whatever they took out.

I doubt it'll be an issue to almost anyone if Act 2 has twice as much content as Act 1. Would it?

As I also mentioned in my post, it's not a simple matter of unshortening act 2. Aside from the things I posted about (i.e. there are story pacing considerations since Act I is already out there and not being changed) it's probably not a simple matter of putting designed stuff back in, because some of that probably depended on stuff that was in Act I but was taken out. Besides, I think most of the cuts were made to Act I, from what I remember. Act 2 was designed to be shorter, but less was cut, so I think now they're about even.

It's not going to be an issue for me either way because I don't think Double Fine will do what they think is best, but I don't think it's a trivial question of 'more is good, right?'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad."

-Shigeru Miyamoto

I wonder if Miyamoto has heard of "Duke Nukem Forever". ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wonder how relevant our preference about this is to DF.

Well, if they want to build a smaller, easy ACT II because of whatever reason, they at least can't put the "blame" on backers because "backers would be pissed if the game was delayed". What the survey seems to indicate is that most backers wish they take as long as they need and people would strongly prefer a longer game.

(Of course there are money restrictions, but this only DF can manage and the backers have little to say).

You would need a significant number of the ~90,000 backers to vote before you could argue "it's what the backers want/prefer". I don't think I've seen any polls on this forum get past 1000.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad."

-Shigeru Miyamoto

I wonder if Miyamoto has heard of "Duke Nukem Forever". ;)

That was a special case, though. George Broussard had no idea what kind of game he wanted to make. He didn't have a cohesive story or gameplay plan in place. He just kept wanting to copy the next popular gaming trend. The game kept being redesigned with these new trends in mind over and over (instead of breaking new ground) and went nowhere for almost 12 years.

I don't think Tim suffers from this lack of vision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think by "people" Tim meant all of those that made a ruckus over the budgeting/delay/splitting-in-half back when the drama happened. And after Act I and the initial guesstimates of the full release coming "a few months later", the Internet might implode from more delays.

I really don't see the issues KestrelPi brings up to be honest. I mean, the Act thing is just an artificial slice to get funding, after Act II is out, it's one game in effect. Modifying Act I to suit some of the added content in Act II would be a good thing in my eyes, would add some replayability to Act I to those that played it initially, and since it's so short and straightforward, it shouldn't be much of a hassle either.

The point about pacing and dramatic effect due to the ending of Act I, and any potential difficulties stemming from that... seems like over-thinking it to me, but maybe I'm just ignorant when it comes to storytelling.

Personally, it's a no-brainer; ideally I'd also love to see them redesign Act I, incorporating as much cut stuff as possible, but that's unreasonable at this point obviously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The same length as before would be just fine. Add one more task in each puzzle, and just do more of what you just did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

waiting longer would be fine with me, as long as they think they can take it...i'm a little afraid they could be running out of funding by failing the schedule again, though..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[snip]

So I don't know how to answer the question. If you held me at gunpoint I might say make it longer, because even though I think it is risky for all kinds of reasons, I think they're good at solving those types of problems.

But I'd rather stick with 'I don't know'

This whole post (#15) is brilliant.

I clicked longer because... you know... it's a Double Fine game. I'd like an infinitely long game. I already know I'm going to enjoy it so I'd like that to be the last $100 I ever have to spend to have a satisfying life. Of course practicalities come in and ultimately this is down to DF's budget, but the pacing/narrative point made by KestrelPi is fantastic.

Something you enjoy going on a lot longer is not necessarily better. You enjoy it, in part, because it ends. You enjoy a piece of music because every chord ends and gives way to the next. You enjoy a film because every scene, even ones you really like, end so the film can continue. I enjoyed Act 1 because each world was paced well, completed itself, and ended.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this