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Greg Rice

Project Update 19: 1/25/14

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Considering Part 2 is supposedly due in April and we haven't really hear boo (apart from production statistics) since the last episode about the game, it doesn't fill me with confidence that everything is going swimmingly.

It's not due in april anymore. Hasn't been for some time - and actually that was just the earliest they expected it to be out.

Recent interviews have confirmed that it'll be out a bit later in the year, and also that they've raised enough money to fund part 2 development now. So there's no issue.

Where are these "recent interviews" ?

I don't see any update regarding the April release date issue in "DFA: From Double Fine and 2 Player Productions". At least not any clear one. Isn't this the place where we get our most direct information?

Just seems like there's no enthusiasm in this project anymore.

I know you're the DF white knight who comes to their defence whenever you can, but you have to admit that the momentum of DFA has completely disappeared.

So to say that there's no "issue" when we're not hearing anything at all - that IS the issue, for me at least.

"For me at least"

Okay, so you have your panties in a wad so the rest of the community should, too?

Let's put it into perspective: They just spent two full weeks creating completely new games from scratch while broadcasting NEARLY EVERYTHING while they did it. Did you watch the twitch streams? Did you pay attention to the updates? They did a lot of work to create new and unique titles that will probably become their full time projects in the coming years.

I think Doublefine as well as the community could put up with a little break in between that and Broken Age part 2 considering the over saturation of content.

Besides, do you really think Doublefine is just twiddling their thumbs and wasting time? Have you WATCHED the documentary episodes?? They of all people know that time is limited and I'm sure they are using it as wisely as they possibly can.

I'd get a grip if I were you and enjoy what they produced from Amnesia Fortnight while you wait for an update.

Edit: And everywhere says "Later this year." Did you even try to google your information before you started to complain? Obviously it is not April.

I'm the one with my panties in a wad?

The whole idea of DFA was it was an open look at development of a game. That's not happening right now.

I don't care about Amnesia Fortnight, I donated a bit, but none of the games I was interested in and voted for got up, so why should I care? I backed DFA and it was successful, so I'm interested in that.

And no, I didn't try and Google my information. Do you know why? Because I was told that the most direct way to get information was through the Backer Forums. Which I'm not getting.

Some people on here feel like it's their sworn duty to stick up for Double Fine at any given opportunity. Do you think they're gonna invite you over for a legendary high five for doing so? We haven't heard anything about Broken Age since it was released apart from production statistics that were just raw stats and didn't offer anything "new", just information on things that had already happened.

I'm just expressing my disappointment that Broken Age news has gone cold for a while now. I don't see why that should be a problem for you.

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Why did you assume Part 2 is coming out in April? April sounds like a situation where Double Fine didn't get a lot of money from release, and Amnesia Fortnight had to be delayed just go get Part 2 done quickly. But, from what I can tell, Broken Age is a success and allowed Double Fine to take their Amnesia Fortnight and get done Part 2 in their own time. Maybe May, maybe later.

Last year, Double Fine went through a similar situation where information was corked up for a while in the new year. However, we have already had an a Documentary in January and Amnesia Fortnight took up a couple weeks. I expect the next update will be mid April.

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Why did you assume Part 2 is coming out in April? April sounds like a situation where Double Fine didn't get a lot of money from release, and Amnesia Fortnight had to be delayed just go get Part 2 done quickly. But, from what I can tell, Broken Age is a success and allowed Double Fine to take their Amnesia Fortnight and get done Part 2 in their own time. Maybe May, maybe later.

Last year, Double Fine went through a similar situation where information was corked up for a while in the new year. However, we have already had an a Documentary in January and Amnesia Fortnight took up a couple weeks. I expect the next update will be mid April.

When they first announced they were splitting the game in two and had the release date of January for the first part, April was mentioned as the goal for releasing the second part. All I could find on here as an update to that situation was:

"We’re already hard at word on Act 2, so you’ll still be getting great documentary episodes and sidequests and behind-the-scenes posts from the team. We’re not sure exactly when Act 2 will be out, but we promise to release it the second it’s awesome."

So, we haven't gotten any great documentary episodes. Or sidequests. Or behind-the-scenes posts from the team. It's been over two months.

There was no concrete update on the release being pushed back from April, so I was just assuming it wouldn't be too far after it if that was the original goal.

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There has been confirmation that there will be Broken Age act II docs and they are in development. Well, by confirmation I mean one of the 2PP guys said they were working on it 12 days ago, as well as getting all the finishing touches for the Amnesia Fortnight Blu-rays done, which I'll take for confirmation. I think at this point Amnesia Fortnight might have thrown off official communications off by more than just the two weeks of the event, though if I remember correctly we went through a dry spell during December as they finished up the first act of the game. And for what it's worth GDC is happening now as well.

I do understand being disappointed at not getting the news straight from here, because I am too somewhat, but at this point I guess I've mellowed on a lot of things concerning Broken Age and this is one of them :/. KestrelPi if you have sources that confirm the game is being pushed out and can share them that would be lovely, because I also didn't realize that until you said it.

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Why did you assume Part 2 is coming out in April? April sounds like a situation where Double Fine didn't get a lot of money from release, and Amnesia Fortnight had to be delayed just go get Part 2 done quickly. But, from what I can tell, Broken Age is a success and allowed Double Fine to take their Amnesia Fortnight and get done Part 2 in their own time. Maybe May, maybe later.

Last year, Double Fine went through a similar situation where information was corked up for a while in the new year. However, we have already had an a Documentary in January and Amnesia Fortnight took up a couple weeks. I expect the next update will be mid April.

When they first announced they were splitting the game in two and had the release date of January for the first part, April was mentioned as the goal for releasing the second part. All I could find on here as an update to that situation was:

"We’re already hard at word on Act 2, so you’ll still be getting great documentary episodes and sidequests and behind-the-scenes posts from the team. We’re not sure exactly when Act 2 will be out, but we promise to release it the second it’s awesome."

So, we haven't gotten any great documentary episodes. Or sidequests. Or behind-the-scenes posts from the team. It's been over two months.

There was no concrete update on the release being pushed back from April, so I was just assuming it wouldn't be too far after it if that was the original goal.

I don't know why you think I was leaping to the defence of Double Fine. You said things in your post that were not correct. You weren't lying; you didn't know. I corrected you.

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"Recent interviews have confirmed that it’ll be out a bit later in the year"

“We’re already hard at word on Act 2, so you’ll still be getting great documentary episodes and sidequests and behind-the-scenes posts from the team. We’re not sure exactly when Act 2 will be out, but we promise to release it the second it’s awesome.”

That's ok, we can wait but KestrelPi, you're talking about interviews that doesn't exist. I could be wrong of course, but you're making reference to "interviews", where are they ?

EDIT : Sorry for my stinky english.

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Why are you knitpicking his words? Who cares if it's been stated in an interview or not - which I'm very sure it has been - it says so on their

STORE PAGE:

"Act 1 is available now, and the act 2 conclusion will arrive as a free update later this year! " (http://store.steampowered.com/app/232790/)

BLOG POST:

"The Act 2 conclusion of Broken Age will ship later this year as a free update for all owners of the game." (http://www.doublefine.com/news/comments/broken_age_playable_for_backers_now_preorders_open_for_non-backers/) *Published in early JANUARY

Aso: Why would you use assume April? How can you get mad a developer over a date that you pull out of your butt?

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"Recent interviews have confirmed that it’ll be out a bit later in the year"

“We’re already hard at word on Act 2, so you’ll still be getting great documentary episodes and sidequests and behind-the-scenes posts from the team. We’re not sure exactly when Act 2 will be out, but we promise to release it the second it’s awesome.”

That's ok, we can wait but KestrelPi, you're talking about interviews that doesn't exist. I could be wrong of course, but you're making reference to "interviews", where are they ?

EDIT : Sorry for my stinky english.

Mostly video interviews from around the release of Act 1. I can't remember exactly where they all were but I have a feeling one of them was Rock Paper Shotgun. Look it up. But seriously, accusing me of lying about interviews? How old are you, 2?

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"Recent interviews have confirmed that it’ll be out a bit later in the year"

“We’re already hard at word on Act 2, so you’ll still be getting great documentary episodes and sidequests and behind-the-scenes posts from the team. We’re not sure exactly when Act 2 will be out, but we promise to release it the second it’s awesome.”

That's ok, we can wait but KestrelPi, you're talking about interviews that doesn't exist. I could be wrong of course, but you're making reference to "interviews", where are they ?

EDIT : Sorry for my stinky english.

Mostly video interviews from around the release of Act 1. I can't remember exactly where they all were but I have a feeling one of them was Rock Paper Shotgun. Look it up. But seriously, accusing me of lying about interviews? How old are you, 2?

Sorry if you felt accused of lying, but it was not my intention. I was worried about the term "interview" that felt inadequate. There was a statement from Double Fine about the delay (at the time when they announced Act 2 was fully financed) that was quoted by some websites including RPS. Like Skankityspence said above I was knitpicky about the choice of word and that was kind of childish I must admit. No offence.

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"Recent interviews have confirmed that it’ll be out a bit later in the year"

“We’re already hard at word on Act 2, so you’ll still be getting great documentary episodes and sidequests and behind-the-scenes posts from the team. We’re not sure exactly when Act 2 will be out, but we promise to release it the second it’s awesome.”

That's ok, we can wait but KestrelPi, you're talking about interviews that doesn't exist. I could be wrong of course, but you're making reference to "interviews", where are they ?

EDIT : Sorry for my stinky english.

Mostly video interviews from around the release of Act 1. I can't remember exactly where they all were but I have a feeling one of them was Rock Paper Shotgun. Look it up. But seriously, accusing me of lying about interviews? How old are you, 2?

Sorry if you felt accused of lying, but it was not my intention. I was worried about the term "interview" that felt inadequate. There was a statement from Double Fine about the delay (at the time when they announced Act 2 was fully financed) that was quoted by some websites including RPS. Like Skankityspence said above I was knitpicky about the choice of word and that was kind of childish I must admit. No offence.

Apology cheerfully accepted!

Incidentally, I'm not blaming people for not realising the information I posted. It was stuff I got from following everything that was going on at the time if release and in fact could probably be communicated a little better to backers.

I'm sure we'll get an episode or a post soon. Indeed, Broken Age is the only project that continued development during Amnesia Fortnight, so if anything it has been the most active project. And remember we did get that post-release documentary episode.

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Why are you knitpicking his words? Who cares if it's been stated in an interview or not - which I'm very sure it has been - it says so on their

STORE PAGE:

"Act 1 is available now, and the act 2 conclusion will arrive as a free update later this year! " (http://store.steampowered.com/app/232790/)

BLOG POST:

"The Act 2 conclusion of Broken Age will ship later this year as a free update for all owners of the game." (http://www.doublefine.com/news/comments/broken_age_playable_for_backers_now_preorders_open_for_non-backers/) *Published in early JANUARY

Aso: Why would you use assume April? How can you get mad a developer over a date that you pull out of your butt?

Cos I didn't pull it out of my butt? As I explained earlier in this thread?

They originally stated they were aiming for January with Act 1 and April with Act 2. It's in one of the documentary episodes from last year. The only thing that has changed is it's changed to "later this year" in January, which could still have meant April.

There hasn't been any updates, even though the last update which is over 2 months ago now said: "We’re already hard at word on Act 2, so you’ll still be getting great documentary episodes and sidequests and behind-the-scenes posts from the team."

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Why are you knitpicking his words? Who cares if it's been stated in an interview or not - which I'm very sure it has been - it says so on their

STORE PAGE:

"Act 1 is available now, and the act 2 conclusion will arrive as a free update later this year! " (http://store.steampowered.com/app/232790/)

BLOG POST:

"The Act 2 conclusion of Broken Age will ship later this year as a free update for all owners of the game." (http://www.doublefine.com/news/comments/broken_age_playable_for_backers_now_preorders_open_for_non-backers/) *Published in early JANUARY

Aso: Why would you use assume April? How can you get mad a developer over a date that you pull out of your butt?

Cos I didn't pull it out of my butt? As I explained earlier in this thread?

They originally stated they were aiming for January with Act 1 and April with Act 2. It's in one of the documentary episodes from last year. The only thing that has changed is it's changed to "later this year" in January, which could still have meant April.

There hasn't been any updates, even though the last update which is over 2 months ago now said: "We’re already hard at word on Act 2, so you’ll still be getting great documentary episodes and sidequests and behind-the-scenes posts from the team."

Right, no, they did say April or May, back in July. They haven't said those dates for a while, and they were probably set on waiting for how well Act 1 was selling before fixing the schedule for Act 2 entirely, but we know from various interviews that they have the money for Act 2 (and have had for a reasonable while now) and from some video interviews around the release that it's looking like a bit later in the year for the release of Act 2.

It would be nice if that had been clarified on the forums, but it'll probably come in a future documentary update, once their surer of their schedule. So, for now, consider yourself informed.

If letting you know the facts, based on things I have watched and read, is being a 'white knight', then... I don't know, have fun calling me that if you like.

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Why are you knitpicking his words? Who cares if it's been stated in an interview or not - which I'm very sure it has been - it says so on their

STORE PAGE:

"Act 1 is available now, and the act 2 conclusion will arrive as a free update later this year! " (http://store.steampowered.com/app/232790/)

BLOG POST:

"The Act 2 conclusion of Broken Age will ship later this year as a free update for all owners of the game." (http://www.doublefine.com/news/comments/broken_age_playable_for_backers_now_preorders_open_for_non-backers/) *Published in early JANUARY

Aso: Why would you use assume April? How can you get mad a developer over a date that you pull out of your butt?

Cos I didn't pull it out of my butt? As I explained earlier in this thread?

They originally stated they were aiming for January with Act 1 and April with Act 2. It's in one of the documentary episodes from last year. The only thing that has changed is it's changed to "later this year" in January, which could still have meant April.

There hasn't been any updates, even though the last update which is over 2 months ago now said: "We’re already hard at word on Act 2, so you’ll still be getting great documentary episodes and sidequests and behind-the-scenes posts from the team."

Right, no, they did say April or May, back in July. They haven't said those dates for a while, and they were probably set on waiting for how well Act 1 was selling before fixing the schedule for Act 2 entirely, but we know from various interviews that they have the money for Act 2 (and have had for a reasonable while now) and from some video interviews around the release that it's looking like a bit later in the year for the release of Act 2.

It would be nice if that had been clarified on the forums, but it'll probably come in a future documentary update, once their surer of their schedule. So, for now, consider yourself informed.

If letting you know the facts, based on things I have watched and read, is being a 'white knight', then... I don't know, have fun calling me that if you like.

Telling me there's "no issue" isn't letting me know the facts, it's trying to downplay my grievances - hence the white knight call. The issue I had still remains - the issue was never the April release date, it was the lack of information being given.

There's still that lack of information, and because another forum member could give me more information than I could get directly from Double Fine, that kinda makes it worse.

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Why are you knitpicking his words? Who cares if it's been stated in an interview or not - which I'm very sure it has been - it says so on their

STORE PAGE:

"Act 1 is available now, and the act 2 conclusion will arrive as a free update later this year! " (http://store.steampowered.com/app/232790/)

BLOG POST:

"The Act 2 conclusion of Broken Age will ship later this year as a free update for all owners of the game." (http://www.doublefine.com/news/comments/broken_age_playable_for_backers_now_preorders_open_for_non-backers/) *Published in early JANUARY

Aso: Why would you use assume April? How can you get mad a developer over a date that you pull out of your butt?

Cos I didn't pull it out of my butt? As I explained earlier in this thread?

They originally stated they were aiming for January with Act 1 and April with Act 2. It's in one of the documentary episodes from last year. The only thing that has changed is it's changed to "later this year" in January, which could still have meant April.

There hasn't been any updates, even though the last update which is over 2 months ago now said: "We’re already hard at word on Act 2, so you’ll still be getting great documentary episodes and sidequests and behind-the-scenes posts from the team."

Right, no, they did say April or May, back in July. They haven't said those dates for a while, and they were probably set on waiting for how well Act 1 was selling before fixing the schedule for Act 2 entirely, but we know from various interviews that they have the money for Act 2 (and have had for a reasonable while now) and from some video interviews around the release that it's looking like a bit later in the year for the release of Act 2.

It would be nice if that had been clarified on the forums, but it'll probably come in a future documentary update, once their surer of their schedule. So, for now, consider yourself informed.

If letting you know the facts, based on things I have watched and read, is being a 'white knight', then... I don't know, have fun calling me that if you like.

Telling me there's "no issue" isn't letting me know the facts, it's trying to downplay my grievances - hence the white knight call. The issue I had still remains - the issue was never the April release date, it was the lack of information being given.

There's still that lack of information, and because another forum member could give me more information than I could get directly from Double Fine, that kinda makes it worse.

You mean the grievances that were based on incorrect information? Yes, I guess I downplayed those. If by downplayed, you mean 'corrected'. Again, once more, with feeling: yes, I agree, this could have been conveyed better on the forums (I figure they're just waiting to nail down the full production schedule, but whatever, sure, they could have said something by now). But it wasn't, they didn't. Nevertheless, I have now informed you. Let me repeat your 'grievance':

"Considering Part 2 is supposedly due in April"

No longer true, corrected.

" and we haven’t really hear boo (apart from production statistics) since the last episode about the game,"

Half true, there have been plenty of interviews and things, and we have as much access to those as everyone else. It's been made VERY clear in updates to us that as the game gets released to the public there are going to be fewer backer exclusive updates and more public news stories, etc, but sure, I get your point. They could have 'addressed' us directly, I suppose.

"it doesn’t fill me with confidence that everything is going swimmingly."

We have every reason to think it is, what with the recent many news stories that part 2 was quickly funded, so I informed you on this too.

So, two corrections, and one half-acknowledgement. We done here?

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Where are these "recent interviews" ?

I don't see any update regarding the April release date issue in "DFA: From Double Fine and 2 Player Productions". At least not any clear one. Isn't this the place where we get our most direct information?

Just seems like there's no enthusiasm in this project anymore.

I know you're the DF white knight who comes to their defence whenever you can, but you have to admit that the momentum of DFA has completely disappeared.

So to say that there's no "issue" when we're not hearing anything at all - that IS the issue, for me at least.

Here you go, Bernie.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/02/22/broken-age-act-ii-already-funded-claims-double-fine/

No idea what everyone is being so hostile towards you. Everything you've said is perfectly reasonable.

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No idea what everyone is being so hostile towards you. Everything you've said is perfectly reasonable.

Come on, Thunderpeel, you know I'm not unreasonably harsh. When he first put up his question, I replied, quite reasonable. This is my reply, and I don't think it's hostile at all. All I do is correct on a couple of matters:

"It’s not due in april anymore. Hasn’t been for some time - and actually that was just the earliest they expected it to be out.

Recent interviews have confirmed that it’ll be out a bit later in the year, and also that they’ve raised enough money to fund part 2 development now. So there’s no issue."

'There's no issue' was of course in reference to his worry that "it doesn’t fill me with confidence that everything is going swimmingly."

His reply to that was:

"Where are these “recent interviews” ?

I don’t see any update regarding the April release date issue in “DFA: From Double Fine and 2 Player Productions”. At least not any clear one. Isn’t this the place where we get our most direct information?

Just seems like there’s no enthusiasm in this project anymore.

I know you’re the DF white knight who comes to their defence whenever you can, but you have to admit that the momentum of DFA has completely disappeared.

So to say that there’s no “issue” when we’re not hearing anything at all - that IS the issue, for me at least."

That is what I took objection to, and that he then continued to misunderstand what I'm saying despite me repeatedly saying that stuff could have been communicated better on the forums, but that his concerns about the progress of the project appear to be unfounded.

I'm more than happy to be civil, but I tend to become a little bit grouchy when I'm given snark simply for providing information someone didn't have previously.

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My personal problem is all I hear about is the other things they are doing. "Distractions" like: Costume Quest 2, Space Base DF9 in early access, Massive Chalice a.k.a Kickstarter 2.Then they publish Escape Goat 2, and do Amnesia Fortnight.

I fear that this might be a bit much in the end.

Only part of Doublefine actually works on Broken Age. The other games are developed and lead by completely different people.

And Amnesia Fortnight is done every year. I agree with you on that -- it's annoying when anticipating such a game like Broken Age, but it's part of their process...

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I don't know. I think that Double Fine are much more canny planners than they're made out to be. And if at any point I'm 'white knighting' then this is it - but really I'm just listing some stuff:

They somehow have a reputation for not releasing stuff, yet since the start of 2013 they've released new: The Cave, Dropchord, the Leap Motion version of Autonomous, the Playroom DLC, as well as Steam Early Access DF9 and Part 1 of Broken Age.

And ports: Stacking (Linux), Brutal Legend (Windows, Mac, Linux).

Which is to say they have a lot of irons in a lot of fires, and I don't think it's any sign that they've been overstretched to the point of delaying games. Broken Age was clearly delayed because of increased scope/self funding rather than resources being put into other projects, and I think everything else they released came out more or less on schedule.

This suggests to me a company that is more than aware of how much work it is able to take on - and I think much better at it since Justin came on board to handle the business side.

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You mean the grievances that were based on incorrect information? Yes, I guess I downplayed those. If by downplayed, you mean 'corrected'. Again, once more, with feeling: yes, I agree, this could have been conveyed better on the forums (I figure they're just waiting to nail down the full production schedule, but whatever, sure, they could have said something by now). But it wasn't, they didn't. Nevertheless, I have now informed you. Let me repeat your 'grievance':

"Considering Part 2 is supposedly due in April"

No longer true, corrected.

" and we haven’t really hear boo (apart from production statistics) since the last episode about the game,"

Half true, there have been plenty of interviews and things, and we have as much access to those as everyone else. It's been made VERY clear in updates to us that as the game gets released to the public there are going to be fewer backer exclusive updates and more public news stories, etc, but sure, I get your point. They could have 'addressed' us directly, I suppose.

"it doesn’t fill me with confidence that everything is going swimmingly."

We have every reason to think it is, what with the recent many news stories that part 2 was quickly funded, so I informed you on this too.

So, two corrections, and one half-acknowledgement. We done here?

And this is the reason why I called you a white knight. You go out of your way to defend Double Fine when there's any post that might be negative towards them. Even now, you're trying to downplay my grievances by saying they were based on incorrect information.

No, they were based on the information provided by what Double Fine has described as the most direct way to receive information on Broken Age - the backer forums. Direct from Double Fine.

The fact that I am not hearing anything directly from them is my issue. I've already clarified this. You're going into meticulous detail to try and tell me I have no issue. I don't know why you're doing that or what you hope to achieve by doing that, but it hasn't changed my mind even slightly.

You seem to have fun "correcting" me in the most condescending manner possible, but I still don't think you have "corrected" me at all. I believe I said "supposedly", as that was the last time frame I heard from Double Fine. I didn't say "definitely". People focussed on the April thing as if it was the biggest part of my post, that it was a grievance I had... it was merely the last I had heard directly from DF, and part of the reason why I wanted more direct updates from them. I don't care if it comes in April or June or whenever, it's just the last I had heard from DF.

"Correcting" the April release date isn't actually telling me I'm wrong, because it was the last solid idea they had given directly (through a documentary episode). At most, you informed me that this was no longer the case due to interviews they had given elsewhere. Excellent, reinforcing the issue I have.

Then you go on to tell me it's "half true" that we haven't heard anything, because we have just as much access to those as everyone else? So, I paid to become a backer for the behind the scenes development of a game, and even though I haven't heard anything from them - I had the ability to scour the net for interviews that the public gets? So I shouldn't be upset that I'm not hearing anything from DF because of this? That's weak. The only gaming site I actually visit in any regular capacity is IGN and there haven't been a host of interviews about Broken Age on there. In fact, it hasn't been mentioned since it's release.

Saying I don't have confidence that everything is going swimmingly is not something that can be "corrected". So you're hanging your hat on the fact you think telling me the second half of the game was funded is going to change my mind on the confidence I have with the game going forward... when the confidence issue I had was that we haven't heard anything from DF? "Here, you're low on confidence due to radio silence... I'll let you know a fact that has nothing to do with that and problem solved!"

To make it simple, my original issue:

We haven't heard anything from Double Fine in two months.

Your response:

I'm gonna break down every part of your post and "correct" you and tally up the statistics of my corrections, so I have 2 corrections and one half correction so therefore you shouldn't have any issue.

I mean seriously? Why would you do this? I can't believe I've wasted so much of my life even responding, but it's just... I can't comprehend what could possibly drive you to put this much effort into telling me I shouldn't be upset that DF are completely silent on Broken Age right now?

Anyway, I'm out. This is just silly.

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And this is the reason why I called you a white knight. You go out of your way to defend Double Fine when there's any post that might be negative towards them. Even now, you're trying to downplay my grievances by saying they were based on incorrect information.

No, they were based on the information provided by what Double Fine has described as the most direct way to receive information on Broken Age - the backer forums. Direct from Double Fine.

The fact that I am not hearing anything directly from them is my issue. I've already clarified this. You're going into meticulous detail to try and tell me I have no issue. I don't know why you're doing that or what you hope to achieve by doing that, but it hasn't changed my mind even slightly.

You seem to have fun "correcting" me in the most condescending manner possible, but I still don't think you have "corrected" me at all. I believe I said "supposedly", as that was the last time frame I heard from Double Fine. I didn't say "definitely". People focussed on the April thing as if it was the biggest part of my post, that it was a grievance I had... it was merely the last I had heard directly from DF, and part of the reason why I wanted more direct updates from them. I don't care if it comes in April or June or whenever, it's just the last I had heard from DF.

"Correcting" the April release date isn't actually telling me I'm wrong, because it was the last solid idea they had given directly (through a documentary episode). At most, you informed me that this was no longer the case due to interviews they had given elsewhere. Excellent, reinforcing the issue I have.

Then you go on to tell me it's "half true" that we haven't heard anything, because we have just as much access to those as everyone else? So, I paid to become a backer for the behind the scenes development of a game, and even though I haven't heard anything from them - I had the ability to scour the net for interviews that the public gets? So I shouldn't be upset that I'm not hearing anything from DF because of this? That's weak. The only gaming site I actually visit in any regular capacity is IGN and there haven't been a host of interviews about Broken Age on there. In fact, it hasn't been mentioned since it's release.

Saying I don't have confidence that everything is going swimmingly is not something that can be "corrected". So you're hanging your hat on the fact you think telling me the second half of the game was funded is going to change my mind on the confidence I have with the game going forward... when the confidence issue I had was that we haven't heard anything from DF? "Here, you're low on confidence due to radio silence... I'll let you know a fact that has nothing to do with that and problem solved!"

To make it simple, my original issue:

We haven't heard anything from Double Fine in two months.

Your response:

I'm gonna break down every part of your post and "correct" you and tally up the statistics of my corrections, so I have 2 corrections and one half correction so therefore you shouldn't have any issue.

I mean seriously? Why would you do this? I can't believe I've wasted so much of my life even responding, but it's just... I can't comprehend what could possibly drive you to put this much effort into telling me I shouldn't be upset that DF are completely silent on Broken Age right now?

Anyway, I'm out. This is just silly.

You don't seem like a stupid guy, so I don't get why you're saying so many things that are so incredibly misleading about what I was actually saying, not to mention insulting.

1) Did I not, several times, above, clarify, in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that when I said there was no issue, I was saying there's no issue with the development of part two, based on what we know about the funding situation and the release dates from sources other than this website? Was that not clear enough, despite me saying it again and again?

2) Did I not ALSO acknowledge that I sort-of agree that it could have been communicated better here although I'm not so wound up about it because it's not as if it's secret info being hidden from us, my feeling is that they're just waiting to make an official forum announcement when they have something more definite to say. I could be wrong, but I suspect they're planning to talk more when the net episode comes out, which according to Tim's twitter is pretty soon now. I do think it wouldn't have hurt to say something here, too, totally get that, I'm just chilled out about it. That's why I say y'know, I half agree on that. Personally I'd rather get occasional bigger updates at this stage in the development than lots of little updates, so while I see the value in the little updates, I'm kinda ambivalent.

As for 1) they WERE corrections, there's no getting around it. I'm not calling you a liar, I'm not calling you dumb. YOU DIDN'T KNOW. Because of 2), you had a good reason for not knowing. That's FINE. But I still corrected your assumptions/worries that a) it's supposed to be coming in April and b) that must mean there's a problem with the development if we didn't hear anything yet. There was nothing hostile in what I said.

Finally, you can basically just bugger the hell off with 'You go out of your way to defend Double Fine when there’s any post that might be negative towards them.' When someone says something which is incorrect - factually incorrect - I am MORE than happy to correct them on that matter. When someone says something which I think, subjectively, is a little unfair, I will regularly come in on that debate. But if you think that I shy away from being critical of Double Fine, then you simply don't pay enough attention.

This really bothers me, because I try my absolute best to be fair minded both in my praise and criticisms. One of the most legendarily long threads on this forum came out of a criticism I made towards Chris Remo's response to something I said during the Massive Chalice Kickstarter. Even though I love the first act of Broken Age Part 1, I've always been very clear which parts I think are weaker and could do with the most improvement. Not only have I stated those on the forum, but I've engaged in direct message conversation with a staff member where I voiced some of those concerns once, when I had the chance.

I'm not a white knight, I'm not a suck up, my opinions are considered, even if you disagree with them and I thoroughly resent the insinuation that they're anything but. My first response to you was brief, and polite. There was clearly a misunderstanding over what I meant by 'there's no issue' (again, to be clear, I meant there's no issue with the development, it would seem), and your response to that which basically contained an attack on my integrity annoyed me greatly. I think I'm being remarkably civil considering that you keep on making repeated, unfounded attacks on my character.

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I know you’re the DF white knight who comes to their defence whenever you can

I do know what you mean. It's an unfair and ill-considered statement directed towards you, and certainly uncalled for in this instance. You do, however, like to defend DF. The flipside is, I completely agree with your arguments!

Additionally, I was referring to skankityspence's responses as well, not just yours.

Unfortunately, since my post Bernie has turned into a massive internet troll. I'd suggest ignoring him.

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Sorry guys if I was being hostile. I'll admit to being a lame fanboy. I still honestly think it's being blown out of proportion, but I can understand the concern with no updates as of late. I think it sucks too.

I love you guys. I still love doublefine. I'm sure Doublefine will have an explanation eventually. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

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I know you’re the DF white knight who comes to their defence whenever you can

I do know what you mean. It's an unfair and ill-considered statement directed towards you, and certainly uncalled for in this instance. You do, however, like to defend DF. The flipside is, I completely agree with your arguments!

Additionally, I was referring to skankityspence's responses as well, not just yours.

Unfortunately, since my post Bernie has turned into a massive internet troll. I'd suggest ignoring him.

I don't know if he's turned into a massive internet troll or not, I just don't get the diatribe against me.

But yeah. I do like to defend Double Fine, I'd never deny it. I just don't ... defend indiscriminately into the crowd. I will offer criticism, but it's usually tempered by my generally optimistic outlook. Also, I don't mean to blow my own trumpet but, I guess one of the reasons that I persist is I have had a couple of people from DF and 2PP express gratitude that I've said things in their defence which they feel they couldn't say themselves, either because it would be too confrontational coming from then, maybe, or they need to take a more neutral stance when interacting on the forums. But anyway, that's by the by.

/talking about myself.

Tim said on twitter the episode is coming soon, which I guess means within the next week or two. That would put it at about 2 months, if you discount Amnesia Fortnight time. So the new episode is probably around about on schedule (they spoke a little while back about how they've been running every 2 months-ish for a while now, because they found that as the project got into development, that was a better timescale for releases. Judging on the most recent episodes, I'd agree).

This will be the first episode that looks forward to Act 2, while the last one was a wrapping up of Act I. So it seems very likely that at least part of the episode will be concerned with figuring out the production schedule for act 2, and getting back into the groove of development post act I and Amnesia fortnight. Once the episode is out then, we ought to have a much better idea of what's going on with the project.

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I know you’re the DF white knight who comes to their defence whenever you can

I do know what you mean. It's an unfair and ill-considered statement directed towards you, and certainly uncalled for in this instance. You do, however, like to defend DF. The flipside is, I completely agree with your arguments!

Additionally, I was referring to skankityspence's responses as well, not just yours.

Unfortunately, since my post Bernie has turned into a massive internet troll. I'd suggest ignoring him.

I did? Sorry for sticking up for myself when someone was being overly condescending towards me.

These forums have gone to hell ever since Double Fine released a highly anticipated game, it was average and everyone abandoned ship. It's a shame.

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KestrelPi : 07 April 2014 04:58 AM

I’m not a white knight[...]

KestrelPi : Posted: 07 April 2014 07:00 PM

I persist is I have had a couple of people from DF and 2PP express gratitude that I’ve said things in their defense which they feel they couldn’t say themselves[...]

Hmm. Contradiction anywhere? I am sorry – I couldn’t help myself.

I have a lot of respect and admiration for Tim as a writer and game designer, but a lot of the criticism is valid as this project seems to be mismanaged.

Some of the reasons for this mismanagement are:

Bottlenecks is slowing down the production. Tim did not complete the design phase before starting the production. If he worked with someone to complete all the puzzles and dialog within in the first 6+ months there would be less waiting for the entire production team (obviously programming and defining the art style would happen during this time as well) -and he could focus on polishing the design and managing the project. Another bottleneck is Bagel; they should have worked out his style and his tasks much earlier to get a better flow in the art production. I am pretty sure these bottlenecks have contributed to slowing down the production – and costed them a lot of money as the production team still need their paychecks.

Next is the budget; somehow they have spent all of the money – but found their ways to provide further financing of the project. The lack of money has forced them to remove content from the game.

The final reason for now: DF has made internal changes from working for publishers to becoming more independent – this has probably forced Tim to work more with the DF, and taken way some of his time from the project. However, becoming more independent is also “forcing” them to be successful with Broken Age – and I am pretty sure this has influenced Tim to make a more “mainstream” game.

As for this discussion. DF did promise open development of this game. To let people see how a company create a game from the idea, through the design and production to a finished product. They have failed on this point. There should have been a small update on what they have done once or twice a month – as they did for a short while (and they are doing for Massive Chalice). I am not expecting long videos or long posts, but a short summary to learn from them.

I did not know they extended the development and have also been frustrated over their lack of communication as well. For a while I was wondering if they felt no obligation to share more information with backers as they are now using money from sales, and not from kickstarter.

I assume one of the reason we haven't heard much is due to the fact Chris Remo left, and nobody really replaced him, and his tasks. Again something that could have been solved with proper project management. Something as simple as every discipline writing a short weekly or biweekly log on what they have done, problems they encountered and how they plan to solve problems - and they could just post this list as project updates.

I can easily understand how Bernie felt frustration with updates - just to be encounter people who usually defend DF to say Tim said they extended the delivery date in an interview. They should have told to us this as well, and not expect us to find secondary sources (and it is common to share sources when referring to secondary sources).

I am sure you guys defending DF are great people, wanting the best for this project – and so do people who share their criticism.

There are valid criticism.They have cut content, they have made it more mainstream to succeed with the game, and they are currently awful with their communication. I am pretty sure most of these are due to mismanaging the project and restructuring the companies goals.

Being a great game designer is not the same as being a great project manager. Maybe Tim should have been better at planning and delegating tasks, but I am sure its hard to write, design, being project manager and running a company.

I hope the final result will be great, even if there are some concerns to the final result now.

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KestrelPi : 07 April 2014 04:58 AM

I’m not a white knight[...]

KestrelPi : Posted: 07 April 2014 07:00 PM

I persist is I have had a couple of people from DF and 2PP express gratitude that I’ve said things in their defense which they feel they couldn’t say themselves[...]

Hmm. Contradiction anywhere? I am sorry – I couldn’t help myself.

No?

As for the rest of your post, I think some of the assumptions you make about the management of the project are faulty, for example, people like Justin were brought in to handle a lot of the business side of things so Tim doesn't have to. And the producer of the project is Greg Rice and has much more to do with the day to day management of the project than Tim, who leads on design. And actually, while cuts were made, those cuts were made quite early on in the project, and with the 2-part release they manage to find a way to release more game with fewer cuts, which strikes me as quite a shrewd project management move.

I think you're right that there have been some lapses in general day to day communication at some points in the project, and I think comments along those lines are pretty fair. But then again, I think the general level of communication on this project has been pretty much unprecedented in the amount of access it has given us. It's frustrating, sometimes, when things go quiet, but I don't think it's fair, when we've had this:

http://www.doublefine.com/dfa

To say things like: 'To let people see how a company create a game from the idea, through the design and production to a finished product. They have failed on this point.'

Something they have said on the forums, and in Kickstarter updates, is that as half the game is now released, and in the run up to release, talking about the game is going to become a more public and a less backers only affair. They need to talk about the game with people aside from backers now, I think that's to be expected, and they were up front about that. Here's a quote from around the time of the last episode:

"You're going to be seeing a lot more public coverage of the game, and fewer backer-only updates, which might feel weird at first, but I hope you all realise that its something we have to do to get the word out. It's time to sell this game!"

Doesn't mean they can't pop their head in occasionally, and I agree that even a couple of summary project updates would go a long way. Still, I do think it makes perfect sense for them (aside from the episodes), to do most of their talking about the game publicly now, and they were clear on that being their aim.

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A lot of the things people are calling mismanagement seem just management to me. For example, almost every even moderately complex software project has budget issues, because things always take more time than planned and are always more complicated than anticipated. This is known as Hofstadter's law and it's almost impossible to overcome, partly because you meet new and unforeseen challenges so often. In addition, it's a creative project, as opposed to something that "merely" needs to be functional. When you're building a house, you don't need to make a door that's fun to open and tear down the wall when it isn't.

As for bottlenecks, it takes time to establish a good workflow between different disciplines and that's just part of the process. And designing things in advance doesn't work as well as you'd imagine. For projects where there are a lot of unknowns and risks, you're far better off with some agile development methods.

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