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      These Forums are closing!   10/04/2019

      After more than a decade of serving this community well, these forums have finally run their course and it's time to close them down. That doesn't mean we want to close the doors on our community, quite the opposite!
      Our discord server grows ever busier by the day, and we encourage all Double Fine fans to meet us over there www.discord.gg/doublefine In a short time these forums will become a read only archive and will remain that way until they become needed again.
      You never know, it might happen.  There is... a prophecy. Thank you all for being part of these forums, and remember that the fun is definitely not over - so please join us on Discord! Love ya, Spaff, Tim, Info Cow, and all of Double Fine.
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The_Typer

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I don't feel that an games are worth full price at the moment. Except Broken Age of course, but that was different. Its just too easy to just wait for prices to drop in a sale. I think a lot of savy gamers (and what kind of adventure game player isn't, right?) think like this too. Once it goes on sale I predict they will make their goal, if not before.

Didn't Tim say that Brutal Legend made more money once it was on steam than it ever had before? I know that is a false analogy, but it does go to show how a cheaper product sells well if it is a quality project, regardless of time.

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I don't feel that an games are worth full price at the moment. Except Broken Age of course, but that was different. Its just too easy to just wait for prices to drop in a sale. I think a lot of savy gamers (and what kind of adventure game player isn't, right?) think like this too. Once it goes on sale I predict they will make their goal, if not before.

I don't know how these things are calculated but targeting x sold copies doesn't make much sense if the price doesn't matter, does it? I don't know if their target figure meant full-priced copies or if there is some standard factor but either way, just saying "don't worry, if we drop the price enough, we'll hit our target" is not a way to get DF to be independent :)

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Didn't Tim say that Brutal Legend made more money once it was on steam than it ever had before? I know that is a false analogy, but it does go to show how a cheaper product sells well if it is a quality project, regardless of time.

I don't remember that, at least not clearly, but he may have said that Double Fine made more money off of it then than they had before. That would have more to do with the fact they now own the game and get all of the profits, rather than the scraps the publisher tossed their way (developers working for a publisher can get very little of the money made off of a game they make).

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I don't feel that an games are worth full price at the moment. Except Broken Age of course, but that was different. Its just too easy to just wait for prices to drop in a sale. I think a lot of savy gamers (and what kind of adventure game player isn't, right?) think like this too. Once it goes on sale I predict they will make their goal, if not before.

I don't know how these things are calculated but targeting x sold copies doesn't make much sense if the price doesn't matter, does it? I don't know if their target figure meant full-priced copies or if there is some standard factor but either way, just saying "don't worry, if we drop the price enough, we'll hit our target" is not a way to get DF to be independent :)

I'm not sure I get what you're saying, or maybe I just wasn't clear in my original post. Obviously the number of actual units sold doesn't matter if it is a penny each. I mean that, according to what I recall which may very well be wrong, the lower priced Brutal Legend on steam made them a lot of money. Lower selling games sell more, which should (theoretically of course) offset the price change and make them MORE money total. The guy above me has a good point though that it could have been more that they had the full rights to Brutal Legend and that was the reason why they made money.

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You just proved MichaelM's point.

How so? He seems to think its a bad thing if it goes on sale, I'm saying its a good thing (probably).

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How so?
In so far as it's a scary thing how (little) video games are valued these days. That was what he meant. I happen to agree -- video games used to cost more, and you'd get something like "sales" only after years. Today, you don't even want to pay this lowered full price because you know there'll be a sale with 50% off after a few months, and if it's a game for a mobile device, people can't even demand more than a few bucks in the first place.

A consequence of that is that games have gotten shorter and perhaps it also gave rise to the whole casual thing. I'd honestly prefer if games became longer again, cost $50 - $100, had that price for a couple of years (and shipped in boxes). But I guess those times are over.

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Well, no, the market is much bigger as well. Games cost millions to tens of millions to make these days, and they have extremely high production standards (on the whole). Simple supply-and-demand economics tells you that a larger market will enable a retailer to sell at a lower price.

Moreover, digital delivery removes a lot of the middle-man costs: no boxing, no manual, no CD printing, no shelf-space, often no publisher. Just a retailer with a virtual store and cheap bandwidth. This lowers the total cost of production (indeed, it makes the marginal costs almost zero), resulting in a lower sale price.

I think you're missing a lot of the picture if you're "scared" by the "low price" of games.

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Ah well of that's what he is saying then I was mistaken. As a pretty casual gamer I guess it just doesn't bother me much.

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Broken Age back near the top of the charts because apparently Steam sent out a TON of coupons for 25% off last night, seemingly to people who had bought other DF games. Kinda weird though, according to twitter some people got one, some people got up to about 7 of them, all giftable, so yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they got a healthy number of sales out of that. I didn't get any coupons, oddly!

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Normal random Steam sales promotion?

Regarding the lower costs of digital distribution, I wonder why companies don't usually offer their games directly at their own sites, maybe for 5-10% less than Steam until the idea catches on. Assuming Steam takes 30%, skipping them the companies can probably gain an extra 10-15%, after expenses on bandwidth and some local admin/support.

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Normal random Steam sales promotion?

Regarding the lower costs of digital distribution, I wonder why companies don't usually offer their games directly at their own sites, maybe for 5-10% less than Steam until the idea catches on. Assuming Steam takes 30%, skipping them the companies can probably gain an extra 10-15%, after expenses on bandwidth and some local admin/support.

I don't know about you, but I feel very relucatant to use a webstore I don't know about. Even in cases where a dev offers a game cheaper from his own site I've gone to GOG or Steam just because I don't want the hassle of creating a new account or I just don't trust their store.

I am a bit paranoid that way, but I don't use a webstore before I do my due diligance about them. I woldn't even buy anything directly from DF (if I wouldn't be a member already).

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For me the issue is multi fold: I want my games to be in tidy locations, so GOG or Steam key is a must and secondly I don't want to create yet another account to a site I don't use ever again. And then there's the question of how my date will be stored, can I trust the site to keep my mail etc. info. There's a lot of variables.

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While Schafer wouldn't discuss sales figures, the good news for Double Fine fans is that the plan to split the game in two as a way of funding the final stretch of development worked.

"We've made enough that we can make the second half of the game for sure," Schafer said

- http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-02-21-tim-schafer-how-to-stay-afloat-in-a-pool-of-internet-twitter-hate

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He can't decide what he wants either, can he? In various interviews during the release, he denied that the revenue of the first part would be needed to fund the second one. That made the decision to split the game rather strange, but still, it was what he said.

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Either way, I think this finally puts to bed the notion that some people wanted to put around that somehow splitting the game was making this big financial risk about the future of the project. When they can confidently say after 3 weeks of release that they have the funds they need for part 2, it's pretty clear that they went into the decision confident that the finances would add up, even in a worst-case-scenario.

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Hmm, nice to hear, somehow ..., but it also feels kind of sad how things evolved.

It all started so damn fine, like a dream coming true, but then dunno, the project once felt perfect and then disillusion kicked in step by step, a lack from Gilbert, the stupid name of the game, a loss of transparency (f.e. budget related, hearing about news on some sites instead of here, ...), the teenage kids theme, the split of the game, the terrible

release, the rather disappointing game itself and the lack of an interesting adventure for adventure gamers at all, i'm still so confused about the lack of creativity, the DRM and privacy issues (you know friends don't treat each other this way), the interface, ... these things summed up and absorbed a large part of the joy you normally should feel about the game.

It's nice and certainly good for DF that the game is doing fine but i would have preferred paying more but being treated differently and also getting an adventure i could enjoy instead of this casual thing. The excitement from the beginning stepped into the background and got replaced by annoyances here and there. Oh well, the game industry is full of such stories, sadly.

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@taumel: Don't believe in dreams but in reality, and you won't end up disappointed. It's as simple as that.

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Nope, i prefer to be driven by passion and emotions with all the consequences, may they be positive or negative.

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Nope, i prefer to be driven by passion and emotions with all the consequences, may they be positive or negative.

Well my passions and emotions are telling me you're a fuckin idiot.

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Woah, hey, no need to get heated in here.

Hmm, nice to hear, somehow ..., but it also feels kind of sad how things evolved.

It all started so damn fine, like a dream coming true, but then dunno, the project once felt perfect and then disillusion kicked in step by step, a lack from Gilbert, the stupid name of the game, a loss of transparency (f.e. budget related, hearing about news on some sites instead of here, ...), the teenage kids theme, the split of the game, the terrible

release, the rather disappointing game itself and the lack of an interesting adventure for adventure gamers at all, i'm still so confused about the lack of creativity, the DRM and privacy issues (you know friends don't treat each other this way), the interface, ... these things summed up and absorbed a large part of the joy you normally should feel about the game.

It's nice and certainly good for DF that the game is doing fine but i would have preferred paying more but being treated differently and also getting an adventure i could enjoy instead of this casual thing. The excitement from the beginning stepped into the background and got replaced by annoyances here and there. Oh well, the game industry is full of such stories, sadly.

Taumel, for the most part Tim has been very dedicated to making sure we know information first before the press, especially in the creation of the game.

Post-release he can't promise that we know and hear everything first as press wants to talk to him more about the game, it's release, and what the public non-backers think of it. And he's made such promises in the backer forums.

And all that you're talking about has been talked about more than once in the production of this game, directly to us through the documentary or news posts: The promise of infinite possibilities down to the one concept.

Tim wanted to make a graphic adventure game like the old days, and he wanted to show us the whole process of its creation. And so there are difficult things in the development of a game (see this thread and his post) or his message at the bottom of the first post in this thread.

I appreciate your fantastic vision of what this game is or could be.

However you must realize that no matter what vision you have, it's never going to be exactly the same as someone else's. And no matter how high an expectation you set of a game and what is going to be able to be done in it, unless there's enough money to reach those possibilities, it's not going to happen.

Dream all you want, but unfortunately reality is real. If you want to escape it I suggest you play some more video games and continue to enjoy them for what they are.

Now let's not get on this tangent again, this is about the success of the game, not about what were expecting vs. what we were promised.

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Sure but such things, if i remember things correctly, already happened during pre-release times. I don't mind if non backers get infos about the same time as backers but i also expect backers not to get them later on, so, DF should communicate news (f.e. a thread with related links as soon as they're available) about articles and interviews they stated somewhere else here on the forum too.

I don't think that the documentation covered every interesting aspect about the production (without spoiling the game) because then we would have had a better understanding about how the game really was shaping up. How, why and when an what was supposed to be a LucasArts point & click adventure turned into a casual only story driven game. The mix the docu represents is entertainig but also not always this informative when it comes to the real state of the project.

The pitch video plus the first updates painted an image which was easy to understand and motivated you to participate. Schafer wanted to make an old skool point & click adventure, not some story driven casual game for a maybe bigger/younger audience with all the compromises in the first place. It was quite clear what we will fund but we ended up with something different. Apart from some hints here and there, i don't remember such important moments of changes being highlighted in the docu.

I wouldn't have minded this much if he really would have tried making an adventure for adventure gamers (you know a reasonable percentage of those who gave him their money) and somehow failed but looking at the result this feels more like he was heading into a different direction by intention from a certain point on.

So, expecting an adventure when funding one, getting it for conditions where the importance was pointed out during the Kickstarter campaign already and adding some common sense and trust certainly involves some goodwill but i wouldn't put this into a category which qualifies for dreamy.

It feels to me like i was ordering a big yummy pizza and whilst i heard that there was some trouble in the kitchen i'm still surprised and disappointed that i ended up with getting some cold soup.

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It feels to me like i was ordering a big yummy pizza and whilst i heard that there was some trouble in the kitchen i'm still surprised and disappointed that i ended up with getting some cold soup.

Guess I ate all your yummy pizza.

SORRY, DUDE.

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Hmm, nice to hear, somehow ..., but it also feels kind of sad how things evolved.

It all started so damn fine, like a dream coming true, but then dunno, the project once felt perfect and then disillusion kicked in step by step, a lack from Gilbert, the stupid name of the game, a loss of transparency (f.e. budget related, hearing about news on some sites instead of here, ...), the teenage kids theme, the split of the game, the terrible

release, the rather disappointing game itself and the lack of an interesting adventure for adventure gamers at all, i'm still so confused about the lack of creativity, the DRM and privacy issues (you know friends don't treat each other this way), the interface, ... these things summed up and absorbed a large part of the joy you normally should feel about the game.

It's nice and certainly good for DF that the game is doing fine but i would have preferred paying more but being treated differently and also getting an adventure i could enjoy instead of this casual thing. The excitement from the beginning stepped into the background and got replaced by annoyances here and there. Oh well, the game industry is full of such stories, sadly.

My own eagerness to follow BA sales info stems from a similar sentiment:

On the one hand, I am so happy for DF that they got to make the game THEY wanted that I actually cried tears of joy playing BA for the first time; it's a beautiful game in so many ways. On the other hand, I wish they had wanted to make something else, something cooler and more appealing to my own tastes -- which I honestly BELIEVED were congruent with their tastes before this game took shape. So I am looking for another company to make me feel the way that Full Throttle, Grim Fandango, and Psychonauts made me feel: all crazy good games in a similar vein. I just can't categorize BA in that same vein from my perspective. I'm happy for all the people who love it, and I'm itching to see the long- and short-term sales confirm that lots of people loved it, but I have to admit BA just cannot be a part of my life and my psyche the way Tim's previous games were. Mood: Comfortably Bummed.

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