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JelDeRebel

zero punctuation review

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I really liked the game, but i think some of his points are valid, like the fact that most of the characters aside from Vella and Shay are a bit limited, and stuck in the same place; it's nice when do things in an adventure game and notice how the world also changes around you (characters move, do more than one action etc). They're beautifully animated and all but look more like a part of a puzzle than characters by their own merits... Other than that and the really weird lack of a Look At button, its a very good game!

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I find Zero Punctuation reviews pretty funny, even when he doesn't like one of my games! :)

But, obviously, since he didn't like Grabbin' Gary, I think that pretty much invalidates his whole review because of math.

He calls Gary "...an object who's existence makes no sense within story context...Its only purpose is to provide a witheringly contrived solution to a blitheringly specific problem later on. "

...and then goes on to say how the 90s games wouldn't do that.

Okee doke. :)

tumblr_lqo2hwA0Lv1qkkr5io1_400.png

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You're only ever going to be compared to people's MEMORIES of the old games... and that's a tough act to follow.

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Semi-relevant trivia: Yahtzee made his own series of freeware point-and-click adventure games some years ago - from memory the first two were pretty sweet for freeware AGS games, but the latter two were just damn good in their own right. Assuming I'm not just "wallowing in a nostalgic comfort zone like a dolphin in mother's homemade custard" and forgetting their weaker points.

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I disagree with most of his points, but I didn't expect him to like this game, he rarely likes ANYTHING.
Actually, he enjoys quite a bit. His humor comes from pointing out the flaws though. Even in the things he enjoys. You can kind of "read between the lines" a bit with his videos and tell when he actually enjoys something.

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Exactly Leroy. I would swear some of his top 5 games of the past years were ones he seemed to "hate" at the original times of review. :P

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I find Zero Punctuation reviews pretty funny, even when he doesn't like one of my games! :)

But, obviously, since he didn't like Grabbin' Gary, I think that pretty much invalidates his whole review because of math.

He calls Gary "...an object who's existence makes no sense within story context...Its only purpose is to provide a witheringly contrived solution to a blitheringly specific problem later on. "

...and then goes on to say how the 90s games wouldn't do that.

Okee doke. :)

tumblr_lqo2hwA0Lv1qkkr5io1_400.png

LOL!! That gave me a good freakin' laugh.

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"There's a very schaferian juxtaposition going on with the lights and colorful chocolate box playroom environment lined with the unexpected coffee creams of sinister undertone...

It's cohesive...a univerversal story for the ages..." - Yahtzee, Zero Punctuation.

Thats a nice review!

But yeah, he says stabbing the blowup clown is a high point of adventure game logic, so yeah. No press is bad press I guess.

I love ZP, I've been watching since before it had a themesong and had much better stolen music, so glad to see him cover BA.

pps. The rubber chicken with the pulley in the middle! Now the forums can go to hook island. Thanks Mr. Tim! Seriously, already you guys were questioning adventure game logic in like 1990, so I don't think anyone is surprised anymore. The question is, is it a flaw or part of the charm of the genre?

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I don't know who takes Zero Punctuation videos seriously any more, or as "reviews" at all, to be honest.

They're not "reviews", they're just funny videos. A lot of people watch them because they're amused by his fast speech and witty analogies (regardless of how properly applicable they really are) and that's all there is to it, imho.

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It's not that he doesn't make valid points. It's just that he often exaggerates them to try to be more entertaining. He wins whether you think he's right, entertaining or both.

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These are the kind of reviews you watch to learn what he thinks of the game, not the kind that you go to for consumer advice.

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I think that this is the most entertaining, most accurate review I've seen out there. Granted, most of the reviews are boring and devoid of elucidation, so it's not a big competition.

Does anybody actually disagree with any part of the review? I know that some goobers think Vella's side of the story was better, to the point that they actually think Shay's side was merely tacked on -- but I'm pretty sure those are mostly Russians and other ESL types who missed some of the depth of the Shay tale.

It seems dead-on otherwise.

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I find Zero Punctuation reviews pretty funny, even when he doesn't like one of my games! :)

But, obviously, since he didn't like Grabbin' Gary, I think that pretty much invalidates his whole review because of math.

He calls Gary "...an object who's existence makes no sense within story context...Its only purpose is to provide a witheringly contrived solution to a blitheringly specific problem later on. "

...and then goes on to say how the 90s games wouldn't do that.

Okee doke. :)

tumblr_lqo2hwA0Lv1qkkr5io1_400.png

I can think of of a couple obvious differences...

1) The rubber chicken with a pulley in the middle is HILARIOUS because it's so bizarre and specific. Grabbin Gary is cute, but it's specific in a much more boring, forced way (four knobs? four arms! thanks, mom!)

2) The rubber chicken "puzzle" was merely one small, easy, funny joke-puzzle in a much larger constellation of puzzles. Grabbin Gary is just another too-easy, too-obvious puzzle in a game full of too-easy, too-obvious puzzles, and it wasn't funny.

It was presented in this atmosphere of extreme danger, as well, where Shay is first heading out into space -- yet the whole thing is trivialized because all you have to do is use the obvious-item on the obvious-problem. Not really comparable to the joke-as-puzzle of the rubber chicken.

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Maybe you could be a little more specific about what you disagree with and we could have a discussion!

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I find Zero Punctuation reviews pretty funny, even when he doesn't like one of my games! :)

But, obviously, since he didn't like Grabbin' Gary, I think that pretty much invalidates his whole review because of math.

He calls Gary "...an object who's existence makes no sense within story context...Its only purpose is to provide a witheringly contrived solution to a blitheringly specific problem later on. "

...and then goes on to say how the 90s games wouldn't do that.

Okee doke. :)

tumblr_lqo2hwA0Lv1qkkr5io1_400.png

I was actually talking about this to one of my friends and I think he was a little harsh here. I know that's his schtick, but even so, I thought that it was the whole joke of Grabbin' Gary that there are loads of things he would potentially grab but always some excuse not to, until the end. I found it funny to use him on everything, there are some great custom responses.

(spoiler territory below)

But also, I think that there's a very good story reason, in Shay's world specifically that he always seems to be given the EXACT tools and information that he needs to carry out his tasks.

I don't think anything in Shay's story is a convenient coincidence, even Marek. I don't think it's supposed to be a luck that there happens to be a knife just lying around, or just a happy coincidence that he's given Grabbin' Gary as a gift, which is the exact thing he needs to operate the boom arms, and so on. He's being cut loose enough to feel like he's breaking the rules, but nothing is accidental.

That's why Marek's whole demeanour changes as soon as any genuine danger appears, at the end. He tells Shay he has to get to safety, selflessly shoves him out of the way of falling debris and then says 'No!' when Shay says he's going outside.

I have the feeling that the stuff Vella finds in the ship won't be as immediately obvious in it's use for just this reason. Up until the end, the ship was playing to script. Then Vella happened, and now all bets are off.

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Maybe you could be a little more specific about what you disagree with and we could have a discussion!

After looking at some of your other posts, I regret to inform you that I will respectfully decline.

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but I'm pretty sure those are mostly Russians and other ESL types who missed some of the depth of the Shay tale.

Wow, that was completely unnecessary. Had you just watched the video and thought you could try to pull off some offensive provocative joke yourself?

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Yahtzee's justification for focusing his review around comparisons to older games doesn't really hold much water. This is a pretty clear sign that he's scraping the bottom of the barrel to criticise something (Yahtzee's reviews which are positive seem to get worse reception, and having watched his stuff from the start, it seems clear that he's learned to avoid glowing reviews like the ones he gave Psychonauts and Portal).

All up, I'd consider this to be about as positive as a Yahtzee review is likely to get these days.

Tim's ability to come up with a witty retort or amusing remark on short notice never ceases to amaze me. +5 internets to Tim for the rubber chicken zinger!

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but I'm pretty sure those are mostly Russians and other ESL types who missed some of the depth of the Shay tale.

Wow, that was completely unnecessary. Had you just watched the video and thought you could try to pull off some offensive provocative joke yourself?

6N20lKC.jpg

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I don't know who takes Zero Punctuation videos seriously any more, or as "reviews" at all, to be honest.

They're not "reviews", they're just funny videos. A lot of people watch them because they're amused by his fast speech and witty analogies (regardless of how properly applicable they really are) and that's all there is to it, imho.

I hear this kind of thing all the time, but from the "reviewers" on the web I think he is one of the most accurate and trustworthy (although he can often be somewhat off in the past few years) despite sometimes thinking that he is *wrong* especially with genres he can't really do much with like RPGs. Who do you "trust"? IGN? GameSpot? Polygon? They're usually part of a well-oiled Advertisement machinery and their words aren't worth the page space they are scribbled on. They wouldn't know how to be honest about something and have a proper opinion nowadays if they tried to.

At least he has an opinion and doesn't mince words and embroids them in form of buzzwords like "immersive", "cinematic", "emotionally engaging", "streamlined/accessible", "acclaimed", "visceral" and the likes of bullshit that means nothing and has a clear opinion about the game that he shares. I actually think he went too easy on Broken Age. :P

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/01/24/translating-gaming-journalism-buzzwords/

Just for reference, this is how he acts when he actually *likes* a game and this actually got me to play Psychonauts in the first place back in the day since I missed when it was released and subsequently become somewhat of a fan of Double Fine: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/2-Psychonauts

As other people have also already remarked he even did a few of his own Adventure games resembling Maniac Mansion and probably knows more of what he is talking about in regards to the genre, I think I played the first two and remember liking them overall (they are free):

http://www.fullyramblomatic.com/games.htm

http://www.fullyramblomatic.com/5days/

http://www.fullyramblomatic.com/7days/

http://www.fullyramblomatic.com/notes/

http://www.fullyramblomatic.com/6days/

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I hear this kind of thing all the time, but from the "reviewers" on the web I think he is one of the most accurate and trustworthy (although he can often be somewhat off in the past few years) despite sometimes thinking that he is *wrong* especially with genres he can't really do much with like RPGs. Who do you "trust"? IGN? GameSpot? Polygon? They're usually part of a well-oiled Advertisement machinery and their words aren't worth the page space they are scribbled on.

Really now? May or may not be true, but either way completely irrelevant. (Though if you must know, I don't trust "Internet reviews". I trust people I know, which include both real-life and Internet friends, as well as things I see in videos like let's-plays and first impressions.)

Yahtzee's job is to make videos which are popular. I repeat, his job is NOT to make reviews, his job is to make videos which are as popular as possible, which as many people as possible will want to watch. His job is -- entertainment. And funny you should mention that Psychonauts review of his, because that one actually received quite a bad response from the viewership because he apparently didn't bash the game enough and, hence, the video was not entertaining enough. Getting the picture?

So no, I don't think he's "accurate" and "trustworthy". He's entertaining.

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I don't think anything in Shay's story is a convenient coincidence, even Marek. I don't think it's supposed to be a luck that there happens to be a knife just lying around, or just a happy coincidence that he's given Grabbin' Gary as a gift, which is the exact thing he needs to operate the boom arms, and so on. He's being cut loose enough to feel like he's breaking the rules, but nothing is accidental.

That's why Marek's whole demeanour changes as soon as any genuine danger appears, at the end. He tells Shay he has to get to safety, selflessly shoves him out of the way of falling debris and then says 'No!' when Shay says he's going outside.

I have the feeling that the stuff Vella finds in the ship won't be as immediately obvious in it's use for just this reason. Up until the end, the ship was playing to script. Then Vella happened, and now all bets are off.

I totally agree about Marek. I posted in another topic on the private backer forums with a similar theory (Marek is a "grown up" version of the saving helpless creatures games, although with real (unknown to Shay and us to the full extent) consequences). I hadn't thought about Vella's situation on the vessel yet, interesting conjecture!

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Well, since the thread is now on full spoiler mode, I must say I agree that the convenient finding of the Dead Eye God is a major writing weakness of the game.

I mean, Vela decides to kill the beast. First, she runs away from it then... runs right after it? Hoping she will find some kind of Death Ray along the way? How does that make any sense? Yes, whimsical conveniently placed resources are a staple of Adventure Games, but not for major plot points like that. There's nothing that remotely suggests she has any chance of ever finding an abomination killing weapon until... she does! Or Have I missed some foreshadowing?

They may even have lampshaded it ("Deus Ex Machina" -> Dead Eye God), but for me, it doesn't work well (For a otherwise nicely written first act). Hey Tim, is there any Dead Eye God foreshadowing left on your cutting floor?

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Well, since the thread is now on full spoiler mode, I must say I agree that the convenient finding of the Dead Eye God is a major writing weakness of the game.

I mean, Vela decides to kill the beast. First, she runs away from it then... runs right after it? Hoping she will find some kind of Death Ray along the way? How does that make any sense? Yes, whimsical conveniently placed resources are a staple of Adventure Games, but not for major plot points like that. There's nothing that remotely suggests she has any chance of ever finding an abomination killing weapon until... she does! Or Have I missed some foreshadowing?

They may even have lampshaded it ("Deus Ex Machina" -> Dead Eye God), but for me, it doesn't work well (For a otherwise nicely written first act). Hey Tim, is there any Dead Eye God foreshadowing left on your cutting floor?

(massive spoilers from here, obviously)

She's 14 years old. She doesn't have a plan, or a sense of realism about her quest, she just knows she wants to fight, and first she needs to get away to prepare.

While it is fortunate she found just what she needs, I think it's allowable because otherwise... well, otherwise the story stops, doesn't it?

But also, I think there might be more to this Dead Eye God business. You don't call someone a 'Dead Eye God' because they're blind. And besides, he obviously isn't. You call someone a Dead Eye God because ... Dead Eye is another term for 'very accurate shot'. And what does he do at the end of Vella's act? Well, he's responsible for running the death ray that Vella triggers.

I'm not quite sure what to make of it yet, but it almost makes me think that there's more to this Dead Eye story than meets the eye. So to speak.

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I find Zero Punctuation reviews pretty funny, even when he doesn't like one of my games! :)

The impression I got is that he enjoyed the game overall, especially the unfolding of the story and would play act 2

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