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Bad Golf: Community Edition

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So, the links to the ircs appear to be wrong, someone please fix it... there are many fake ones going around

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I think "Cheeseness" is taking the lead, he was the one doing the initial contacts and stuff.

I think "Cheeseness" also proposed to make the github account in the DF game club account and irc channel.

I can setup an initial base unity project if given access = ].

Alrighty, I've just set up a github repo.

Can anybody who wants admin access give me their github account details? Note that not having admin access doesn't stop you from contributing, it just means that you're responsible for reviewing/merging pull requests, so if you don't feel comfortable merging, don't put your hand up :D

The idea is that to develop, you'll "fork" the project to your own github account, make your changes, and then when you're happy, open a "pull request" to the main repository. This sends a notification to admins who can look over your changes and then add them to the main project.

People without a github account can still download the repo as a .zip file or can clone it, but won't be able to push changes. Github accounts are free, and more details can be found here (if you're new to git, read all four articles in that series, there are links at the bottom).

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I think "Cheeseness" is taking the lead, he was the one doing the initial contacts and stuff.

I think "Cheeseness" also proposed to make the github account in the DF game club account and irc channel.

I can setup an initial base unity project if given access = ].

Alrighty, I've just set up a github repo.

Can anybody who wants admin access give me their github account details? Note that not having admin access doesn't stop you from contributing, it just means that you're responsible for reviewing/merging pull requests, so if you don't feel comfortable merging, don't put your hand up :D

The idea is that to develop, you'll "fork" the project to your own github account, make your changes, and then when you're happy, open a "pull request" to the main repository. This sends a notification to admins who can look over your changes and then add them to the main project.

People without a github account can still download the repo as a .zip file or can clone it, but won't be able to push changes. Github accounts are free, and more details can be found here (if you're new to git, read all four articles in that series, there are links at the bottom).

Ill create an account latter :P

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Congrats to Cheese for being team lead. No pressure or anything. :P

Also, judging from the github repo am I right in assuming you plan to make this a 2D game? A sidescroller or possibly a top-down game?

I've got a few ideas (if the game is in 3D) which I'll sketch out and post when I have enough free time.

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Once I get some work out of the way today, I'm going to look at creating a basic task list as issues on GitHub (they'll probably be broad to start with, but we can put more granular issues up and make them dependencies of the less specific issues).

bobsayshilol has popped a base Unity project in the repo, in which you can drive a blue box from a third person perspective around a grey plane. As silly as it sounds, this is a great starting point.

I've started a couple of pages on the repo wiki, one which contains Patrick's comments from the forum thread here (it's going to be easier to read them in once place for anybody who comes across this thread when it's 10 pages long), and another for brainstorming technologies that we might want to make use of.

I am also going to attempt to write daily summaries of IRC conversations where I can (today's will come later this evening - or at least, what will be later this evening for me).

Many thanks to the DF devs who've popped in to show support. You are all wonderful people ^_^

Edit: Now that I think of it, something fairly important that we should consider before using anything from the asset store is to double check whether our public sharing of the project's source on GitHub is likely to conflict with individual licences of any third party bits and pieces that we're looking at making use of.

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Here's some concept sketches I did for the player model based on our dear Patrick:

tumblr_n0viukMgLy1r0r8weo3_r1_500.jpg

Cheese thought big silly heads would be fun so I messed around with the proportions for a bit. Wanted to do some more with the player driving a golf cart but I'm rubbish at machinery so that's for another time. This was done in my generic style so any tweaks/feedback would be much appreciated. I'll try to look into a more distinct style.

If anyone wanna art jam stuff out (cart/environment) feel free hit me up :D!

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Allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllrighty! As promised, here's a summary!

KEY PROJECT CHANGES

When I made the GitHub repo, I opted for Bad Golf: Community Edition with the rationale that it helps us be clear about what we're doing and not conflict with and possible future Bad Golf projects that Patrick or Double Fine might look towards. Everybody in IRC seemed supportive at the time, so now we have a new name. Huzzah!

TODO LISTS

First up, there's a whole stack of issues (think todo items) up on the github repo based on Patrick's notes now. These aren't very granular and are just a start to get things rolling. As people pick up individual parts, we can make additional issues for them so that the work can be divided up nicely. Yay.

GITHUB ACTIVITY

As mentioned earlier, bobsayshilol and invadererik have set up our base project to work from. People can now fork this and start poking around with particular bits that they're interested in. If there's something you want to do or work on, leave a comment on the relevant issue (hunt through the list here) and let people know what it is you plan to do so that we can avoid doubling up unnecessarily.

It's not a bad thing to have multiple people working on a single thing (in fact, this can be really helpful!), but it's important to communicate and to understand that even if something doesn't get used, it's still valuable to the project to have a choice. Everybody who contributes anything regardless of whether or not it makes it into the game in the end should be included in the credits, so don't worry about that.

Klink and invadererik have active forks at the moment, experimenting with some bits and pieces which are outside of the scope of what we immediately want to accomplish. Once we've got a good sense of where we are and we're comfortable that we've got some focus and direction, we can revisit them and see how they fit and what we can take from them to improve the project as a whole.

IRC DISCUSSION

Today there's been all sorts of buzz as people have come in asking what they can work on and expressing excitement about the project. Unfortunately, I wasn't quite on the ball with setting up a task list before people needed it, but we've got something up now, and that should help people stay focused.

The main topics for today have revolved around trying to get a sense of scope - what is worth aiming for in the short term and what is worth putting off for later once we have something that we can balance and test for "the fun factor" against.

It looks like people are most interested in pursuing Patrick's vision as he's described it to us, and I think that's a very good short to mid term focus. By sticking more or less to what's been described, we can stay focused and ward off scope creep (which is doubly dangerous for community projects like these!). This means we'll have a turn based "tee off" as players make their first shot (which should give some good player spread so that each game has a unique feel), then real time mayhem until the hole is finished, and all players must be ready before the next hole can start.

Taekon has done some neat player model concept art based on Patrick which you can see in the post above.

AgentTom has started putting together some menu concepts which revolve around the idea of representing UI widgets as embroidered text/shapes on polo shirt material.

bobsayshilol looks keen to tackle some of the networking aspects of the game.

badashhh suggested that we keep most of our asset paths and system/mechanic variables in a global config (read from file at start up) to allow for easier tuning and custom game modes without rebuilding the game.

Goldenheaven has been looking at getting an intro video happening.

jason_d seemed interested in doing some sound design.

aaronscientiae is having a try at modeling a cart.

Music was discussed briefly. Patrick's pitches give the sense that he was aiming for a "metal" vibe, which most agree with. The idea of some silly "yackety sax" style ukulele music was also tossed around.

We briefly talked about the idea of using rigs/animations to deform carts into crumpled, damaged states vs swapping out mesh portions with damaged portions. No outcomes there, but interesting stuff to think about!

There was a bit of discussion regarding on-foot gameplay, but I think we've managed to decide to put thinking about that off until after the cart driving and golf sim aspects are in the game to an extent that we can have playable matches (this gives us something to compare the impact of having on-foot gameplay against). If our first goal is to target what Patrick described/suggested down as a base upon which to expand, then on foot gameplay is out for the moment.

The obvious short term implementation would be to be required to drive close enough to your own ball before being able to hop out (Brutal Legend Style) and land ready to swing as described by Patrick earlier. This makes running over balls and ramming carts out of the way the primary means for keeping other players from making a shot (but also prevents you from making a shot since you're driving around like a mad person), and should be fairly easy to tune/balance.

All in all, a great first day! I'll be offline for the next 8 hours or so, so I won't be able to do a chat summary for that period, but hopefully everybody will be communicative and I'll be able to catch up when I get up!

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I had a couple ideas that might work and also save some time:

1. After cart segment, simple fade-to transition into golfing. The Brutal Legend Style hop will be tricky to implement well, I guess, and is not a huge priority IMO

2. Instead of modeled cart damage, you have a indicator, perhaps like the doom-guy face, or just slowly turn the color red as it nears death. Then, the cart explodes when it dies, or slowly tips-over like a sad elephant (maybe the music changes to mozart's requiem and the cart makes the sound of an elephant groan mixed with a pitched-down collapsing janga tower)

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I had a couple ideas that might work and also save some time:

1. After cart segment, simple fade-to transition into golfing. The Brutal Legend Style hop will be tricky to implement well, I guess, and is not a huge priority IMO

2. Instead of modeled cart damage, you have a indicator, perhaps like the doom-guy face, or just slowly turn the color red as it nears death. Then, the cart explodes when it dies, or slowly tips-over like a sad elephant (maybe the music changes to mozart's requiem and the cart makes the sound of an elephant groan mixed with a pitched-down collapsing janga tower)

1 and 2 were sugested already by patrick and we are trying to do it as close as possible but to further enlighten you patrick said along with the cart the player should also be damaged, and 1 unless you went to the irc and said it i pretty much think the exact same was mentioned almost if not word by word " Brutal Legend Style hop.

Anyways if you did at least im sure the second one he sugested we'd do a damaged model golfer ( although i don't think he wants to see himself damaged as on of the golfers is in homage to him :P )

P.S: i could be wrong in meantioning what he said so keep that in mind but as i am realizing more and more, i tend to put words on peoples mouths when im excited, i do most with duncan on his project xing but he isn't / wasn't bothered by that (that i know of, or until now... =) )

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Day 1 Screenshot:

B8lTJ61.png

From humble beginnings...

We have a "cart", you can drive it and the camera stays on it.

EDIT: Day 1 Bonus:

A pic of a cart model (by xexano) from the first dev stream (sorry for the blurriness):

TPiiO5a.png

Golfer model coming together (by invadererik):

673f23cc-9431-11e3-82fe-afa0f861d4b2.jpg

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Last one for Day 1 (at least on my part):

4-player local splitscreen mayhem (all the carts still move with same keys, but hey):

6fqkiCY.png

I should probably figure out how to do gifs.

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Some more stuff:

Female playable character I attempted to model after our dear (leader) Anna and details of the male hair model. Still in a generic style but I guess that's ok for the prototype (?). Also the argyle sweaters could be used to show a player's colour/team.

KR3ElC5.jpg

Some course layouts I brainstormed (dotted areas are sand dunes, striped areas are hills and spiky thingies are plants/objects):

vWAscYp.jpg

The first one is just the generic "objects spread evenly everywhere" kinda map. I'm leaning towards expanding the second one where the middle area is a wide-open free-for-all brawling location. The surrounding is decorated with objects that create routes for chasing - such includes:

- Bushes/low plants/foliage to conceal yourself in.

- Tall, thin trees to mess with a player's ball trajectory. Serving the same functions are boulders of various sizes.

- Small and medium hills that act as ramps for epic golf cart flying action. Tall or steep hills act as solid walls (maybe there could be a tall strategic hill where you could see a large portion of the map, but also reveals your own location?)

- Sand dunes that decreases a player's speed.

- Small rocks or objects that a player could hit like they would a golf ball to aim at and damage others.

Feedback and suggestions are more than welcomed! Much love for everyone who came to support us in the chatroom! You know who you are ;)

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Taekon: Looking awesome!

For anybody who wants to poke around with course stuff, there's the "Test Course" ticket. Poke some comments on that.

I think that if we're going to try for a race-to-the-hole feel that there should be a lengthy lead up to a "brawling area" around the green.

Some of the decorative map elements/obstacles are mentioned in the "Course Doodads" ticket. If anybody wants to try their hand at that sort of stuff, throw some comments in there.

1. After cart segment, simple fade-to transition into golfing. The Brutal Legend Style hop will be tricky to implement well, I guess, and is not a huge priority IMO

To start with, we can just make the player appear next to the ball (perhaps with an accompanying cloud and pop). Since the game is meant to be fast paced, keeping track of what's going on is going to be pretty key. I expect that a fade in and fade out would undermine that.

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Do we need to have players appearing outside the carts at all?

I was picturing players whacking at balls while leaning out of the carts (maybe even using some of the carts momentum in the shot). The controls for this could be tricky, but it could be WASD/arrows to drive the cart, space to wind up a shot, and shots automatically aimed in the direction the camera is pointed (although I'm a fan of oldschool racing and minigolf games, so I'd personally really like a control scheme with a top-down view where shots are aimed by positioning the mouse relative to the cart; this sounds more complicated than it actually is, I can sketch it out if it's something we'd consider). We'd need to be pretty forgiving with how close you need to be to actually make contact with the ball, but as long as the cart is within a certain distance of the ball, I think it would be good to have all shots magically connect.

The main reason I'd prefer this approach is that it would make for a faster paced game than hopping out of carts to hit the balls. It would still be easier to aim shots if you came to a stop, but the ability to golf while moving means that you could still make shots while chasing or being chased. We also wouldn't have to worry about the hop out animation and we'd get that awesome visual of golfers dangling out of carts to make shots. I think the inclusion of the cart's momentum in shot physics (and the simplification of the other shot dynamics down to power and direction) would also give the golfing part something unique so it wouldn't just be a task you're obliged to do that impedes your cart rampage.

I could see it being a little more challenging to animate the swing from the golf cart than from a standing position, particularly if we need to accommodate balls at different angles/distances from the cart, but I think we can cheat a lot there if necessary (the swing doesn't need to actually connect as long as it looks moderately close to connecting; we could also throw up a dust cloud around the ball as it's hit if the swing is way off).

Anyway, I don't know if that's a crazy idea. What were all your thoughts on ball/swing control?

P.S. The work you guys are doing so far is intimidatingly good. Keep it up! :D

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Do we need to have players appearing outside the carts at all?

I was picturing players whacking at balls while leaning out of the carts (maybe even using some of the carts momentum in the shot). The controls for this could be tricky, but it could be WASD/arrows to drive the cart, space to wind up a shot, and shots automatically aimed in the direction the camera is pointed (although I'm a fan of oldschool racing and minigolf games, so I'd personally really like a control scheme with a top-down view where shots are aimed by positioning the mouse relative to the cart; this sounds more complicated than it actually is, I can sketch it out if it's something we'd consider). We'd need to be pretty forgiving with how close you need to be to actually make contact with the ball, but as long as the cart is within a certain distance of the ball, I think it would be good to have all shots magically connect.

The main reason I'd prefer this approach is that it would make for a faster paced game than hopping out of carts to hit the balls. It would still be easier to aim shots if you came to a stop, but the ability to golf while moving means that you could still make shots while chasing or being chased. We also wouldn't have to worry about the hop out animation and we'd get that awesome visual of golfers dangling out of carts to make shots. I think the inclusion of the cart's momentum in shot physics (and the simplification of the other shot dynamics down to power and direction) would also give the golfing part something unique so it wouldn't just be a task you're obliged to do that impedes your cart rampage.

I could see it being a little more challenging to animate the swing from the golf cart than from a standing position, particularly if we need to accommodate balls at different angles/distances from the cart, but I think we can cheat a lot there if necessary (the swing doesn't need to actually connect as long as it looks moderately close to connecting; we could also throw up a dust cloud around the ball as it's hit if the swing is way off).

Anyway, I don't know if that's a crazy idea. What were all your thoughts on ball/swing control?

P.S. The work you guys are doing so far is intimidatingly good. Keep it up! :D

That's definitely something to consider. I'll add my two cents of an idea I've been shooting back and forth with Cheese (although I do agree with him that we should focus on the driving aspect first before attempting any on-foot section).

My idea is primarily inspired by Happy Gilmore. You drive around in your cart, position yourself just right and when you get in range of your ball, you press a button/key to LEAP out of your cart, RUN towards the ball, whack it and jump back in again. It's important to note that during this sequence your cart is 'ghost riding' by your side. The entire sequence is automated or possibly having a button-mashed sequence to increase your speed. The further away from your ball the more 'Max' potential power you have at your disposal. There's a small cone to steer the direction of the ball in this sequence but it's largely dependent on the angle you drive at it with your cart.

As to why you would want to leave your cart at all, it increases the risk of being run over by other players. After all, the goal of the game is to sink your ball while doing anything to stop the other players. It also adds a small layer of strategy - the further away from your ball the longer you're exposed to other players. There's nothing like the looming fear of being run over to force a player to make a quick decision. This idea keeps the game fast-paced while also adding a layer of strategy and several layers of chaos. :P

I keep saying I'm going to sketch it out to help everyone visualise the camera angles and stuff but I just haven't found the time. I'll definitely get around to it while also attempting to add a few vocal files (mostly grunts, cheers and pain effects).

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Do we need to have players appearing outside the carts at all?

I think that golf polo sounds neat, but maybe it's not Bad Golf.

This is something to come back and address once we've got the core golf/cart driving gameplay solid and playable.

I haven't done it yet, but I was thikning that we should make a wiki page to store longer term ideas so that they don't get lost whilst we focus on getting our short term goals happening. I'll try to get that up today if nobody beats me to it! :D

Also, yay, Greg beat me to posting. I got confirmation from him and Patrick this morning that we have the official thumbs up of approval for this project. Huzzah! :D

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wut, this is so cool! I was the one of the people in chat suggesting we should do a game jam alongside AF2014 for bad golf 2 and the pitches that didn't make the top 3, and now I see this. You guys are amazing! ;D

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I feel like I've already posted this a bunch of times, but for anyone who's stumbling into this thread without keeping an eye on the Github repo, I made this thing last night as an idea for what the intro music could be like:

Alright, I'm going to stop spamming you all with this ten second clip now.

Bidiotbales, how's your own take on the music going?

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Inspired by several "Brad Golf" remarks in the twitch chat right now, I sketched another possible character:

bradgolf.png

(Body would be roughly the same as Little Patrick, perhaps a bit bulkier?)

If someone did a Tim, we'd have a full set of four characters for ultimate diversity in the 4-player mode :D

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This is amazing you guys! Can't wait to see what you guys come up with! Good luck! :D!

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I'm not skilled enough or have enough time to even try to get the hang of any of this in two weeks to be able to help, but I think it's a cool idea. Since this is almost a 4th Project during Amnesia Forthnight that I would like to follow the progress and result from, would it be possible to give this it's own section in the Amnesia Forthnight forum?

That way it would be possible to split up the progress a bit in different parts, like art, code etc.

Not sure if everyone Thinks its a good idea though, or if Doublefine would feel right showing it off that much.

Anyway, just thought I'd voice my interest in this Project also, and see what happens.

Best of luck to you all.

//Slimline

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Sorry for the late (and short) summary, guys!

Today was fairly quiet to begin with. We had a little bit of discussion here and there on a few topics, mostly revolving around how to organise/reuse assets, what sort of courses we'd like to have.

Taekon has (as we've seen) done some more player model concept art, which looks great. He's also done some colour tests which can be found in the relevant github issue.

Taekon is also working on some course concepts to flesh out what we've seen earlier in the thread, and he's done a golf cart design, which Lasd has been modeling.

Goldenheaven has been looking at getting config loading working, poking around with menu stuff and has also made a flag model.

bobsayshilol is rewriting the network stuff to be a bit more robust (this is still in progress).

Lasd is tweaking up camera control (this just got merged and is in the main repo), and is planning to look at starting to implement ball physics.

klink said he'd like to have a try at fiddling with some of the driving controls and recording some initial player sounds.

Lokno is looking at getting carts to respect terrain gradients.

bales has been working on some interface sounds.

majugi has put together an intro concept video.

invadereric has been rigging up the player model and poking around with menu stuff.

meeps has been looking at animating the player model.

aaronscientiae has been poking around with a cart model.

keozo is looking at hud design.

I've put together an asset sources repo for storing the source files for our assets (the .blend files, .psd files, .xcf files, etc. that we don't want cluttering up the main repo). It's empty now, but I'm envisioning that we'll try to sort everything into their own folders underneath "music", "sounds", "models" and "graphics" folders.

I've also put up a "Longer Term Ideas" page on the wiki. This is where we should stow things that don't fit with our short term goals for the project so that we can come back and reassess them later once the game itself has taken form.

Another great day!

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That way it would be possible to split up the progress a bit in different parts, like art, code etc.

Not sure if everyone Thinks its a good idea though, or if Doublefine would feel right showing it off that much.

Awesome! Feel free to join the discussion - you may find there's something you can contribute :)

So far as splitting things off into separate forum threads go, I'd sort of like to keep most discussion confined to here, github, or the IRC channel. DF have the advantage of having everybody in the same building, and it's naturally easier to communicate/keep track of everything. If we start breaking things off into more locations than we already have, it's going to be harder for us to coordinate, if that makes sense.

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