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mudd1

Why did you vote for Steed/Mnemonic?

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* Bring out chains and a huge feather *

Will this work for ya?

There's yet another corner of the Internet I'm glad I didn't even know about ... ;)

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I get that, and I want the prototypes to be as fun as possible, but if I were to let the scope of the full game (and how much can be implemented in the prototype) get into the way of my choices, I'd just pick the games which seem to have lowest budget requirement, I'd always pick linear games and I would not pick any experimental pitches.

To me, it is important that games like Derelict and Reentry get a chance. Derelict for its focus on a new technology, and Reentry for being very very far from what DF usually does (Reentry is basically a First-Person Physics-based Skill "Platformer" with little plot and no character development). It's not just about me getting the most for my money (e.g. great prototypes, as close as possible to the finished products).

Those are fair points.

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For me this perfectly highlights just how different everyone's interests are! Out of that top 10 I would only have really had Breach, Ether and maybe Eras/white witch (subject to me actually making a top ten and figuring out if I have room) - there really is no way we would have all been totally happy with the final 3 :) Anyway for me AF is all about the process and getting an extended look behind the scenes at DF - especially since I don't even have windows installed these days so i can't even play the final prototypes.

Sure. I still think a preferential voting system would have done a better job at maximising overall happiness than this two ballot system could have hoped to achieve. And even if the result would have been exactly the same, it would at least have meant that it's really what people want and not some fluke of the system and the available choices. That's not to say that there weren't a lot of people who really, really wanted Steed and Mnemonic. That much was clear even before the results were announced just from following the forum.

Yeh man agree with you on that - 3,2,1 voting system would probably work better - just like my football (soccer) team's players player votes!

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While we're playing the "why did you vote for X" game, can someone explain their enthusiasm for Dear Leader? I mean, I'm okay with that game being picked, it's a game I'd play and I look forward to seeing Anna lead, but I don't really get why it's quite as popular as it is.

It reminded me of King of the Dragon Pass, one of my favorite games ever.

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While we're playing the "why did you vote for X" game, can someone explain their enthusiasm for Dear Leader? I mean, I'm okay with that game being picked, it's a game I'd play and I look forward to seeing Anna lead, but I don't really get why it's quite as popular as it is.

To be honest, I think two major contributing factors were "Anna" and "Soviet propaganda art style". Personally, I think I voted for Dear Leader because it reminded me of the Junta board game which I adore (I also suck at it). And I generally dig such political/intrigue themes. But as to why it was that hyped I think I'll refer back to my first sentence.

Junta was exactly what I was thinking when I saw the pitch too. That mixed with a bit of the original Patrician. Neither of the three finalists were among my top five or ten or something but I can definitely see the appeal to Dear Leader. I think I'll get excited about the all three finalists once I experience more of the hype around them too, so thanks for creating this thread.

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Yeah, wow. Steed and Mnemonic both look like content-heavy story-focused gimmicky shit. Really disappointed, because I was expecting What Could Go Wrong.

Good luck making Mnemonic in 2 weeks. I:m expecting another abortive White Birch-like experience.

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Unless I'm totally off base - i think that some people have misunderstood the purpose of AF prototypes? Somewhere along the way it appears that people have adopted the idea that the teams are supposed to make the best possible complete game in two weeks? I always understood the goal to be a somewhat complete (read self contained) slice of what could be made if the game went into production. Limiting AF to concepts that could be totally completed in 2 weeks really nerfs exploring a lot of different game types I feel.

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While we're playing the "why did you vote for X" game, can someone explain their enthusiasm for Dear Leader? I mean, I'm okay with that game being picked, it's a game I'd play and I look forward to seeing Anna lead, but I don't really get why it's quite as popular as it is.

This is easy. I looooooove political simulators. I love government and social management. This game strives to parody/"simulate" one of the most characteristic government types of the 20th century in a way that has never been done.

Basically, I got all hot and bothered by Republic: The Revolution and it ended up sucking. This game is not even attempting to be similar, but it will let me do the interesting parts. I'm thinking Tropico without the building and Papers Please on a grander scale, full of choices.

I guess it might come down to how enchanted you are by the idea of government.

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Yeah, wow. Steed and Mnemonic both look like content-heavy story-focused gimmicky shit. Really disappointed, because I was expecting What Could Go Wrong.

Good luck making Mnemonic in 2 weeks. I:m expecting another abortive White Birch-like experience.

The scope of Spacebase DF9 as a full game is much bigger than The White Birch was. DF does not need to make Mnemonic in 2 weeks, all they have to do is to prove the gameplay mechanics are fun.

Also, what's more story-based, in general, open world games or adventure games?

Have an open mind, accept that making full games in 2 weeks is not the goal of AF and have fun with it.

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one can only hope that is the first of many horse puns :)

It's going to be neigh impossible to avoid them.

On topic, though, I don't really see why I should justify my votes for either Steed, Mnemonic or Dear Leader, but suffice it to say that I liked the concepts and I thought the pitches were good in conveying the vision for the project.

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one can only hope that is the first of many horse puns :)

It's going to be neigh impossible to avoid them.

Stop horsing around with those nightmarish puns!

On topic, though, I don't really see why I should justify my votes for either Steed, Mnemonic or Dear Leader, but suffice it to say that I liked the concepts and I thought the pitches were good in conveying the vision for the project.

You really misunderstood the intent of this thread.

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Unless I'm totally off base - i think that some people have misunderstood the purpose of AF prototypes? Somewhere along the way it appears that people have adopted the idea that the teams are supposed to make the best possible complete game in two weeks? I always understood the goal to be a somewhat complete (read self contained) slice of what could be made if the game went into production. Limiting AF to concepts that could be totally completed in 2 weeks really nerfs exploring a lot of different game types I feel.

I might be wrong here but I think it was discussed in one of the 2012 episodes that the nature of the Amnesia Fortnight changed when it became public just because the expectations changed as to how complete a game should be the end result. Before that, a technical prototype or proof of concept was fine. Now people expect something they can play and enjoy.

I'm not judging this either way, I'm just saying that's how it is.

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You really misunderstood the intent of this thread.

I get it that it's about convincing you to like these prototypes, but this is kind of what it comes over as. We all know that you're not going to come to a sudden realisation that "Oh no, these are great after all".

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You really misunderstood the intent of this thread.

I think you might have as well. You frame it as an interest in hearing why other people want certain prototypes but this whole thing reads as sulking pessimism. It comes out in all of your [implications].

"I’m kind of down after this result since two games won that I personally wouldn’t even have voted into the top 10"

[I think these ideas are so bad they shouldn't have even had a chance as finalists, I'm upset]

"Anyway, since these games are going to get made whether I like it or not"

[I do not like that these games are being made]

"I’m looking for someone who can hype me up for them. Why did you vote for Steed besides “yay, horses”? Why did you vote for Mnemonic besides “yay, noir”?"

[Engage me to try to argue away my emotions after I belittlingly reduce these pitches and the interest in them to single word concepts, even though I later say:

Can't change the fact that I never felt particularly excited about two thirds of the games that got picked. I don't think you can expect me to feel totally different about that and go all "ah, now I see it"
(emphasis mine)]

"And the twist is that you’re the horse. Huh. So it’s like the boring Zelda riding sequences only that you can’t finally get off Epona and move normally. Sorry if I sound too negative here but that’s where I’m coming from ..."

This wasn't even an implication just outright cynicism.

"That makes my vision of running around on an endless prairie, hoof-kicking at enemies and throwing knights at them look somewhat less bleak"

[I still think the idea is bad, but will relent that it sounds somewhat less bad now]

"Sure, but it should be a viable game in itself, shouldn’t it? You can’t just fill the world with placeholder “Here be interesting content” signs."

[I expect you (this was to the project lead) to be unable to produce something interesting]

I'll stop with the rephrasing, I know it's not your words but I wanted to let you know how it comes across, at least to me. You later expand your discontent to take shots at Massive Chalice, the livestreams, the voting process, and list a slew of prototypes you'd rather see. I think you can safely assume that we understand you're disappointed.

Double Fine is full of such creative folk that I think there are always more intriguing ideas than there are teams to produce them, and regardless of my personal votes, I'm excited to see any of the concepts built up into prototypes. Expecting a "viable game" out of this is perhaps a little unrealistic. My understanding of Amnesia Fortnight is that it is an exploration of pitches for potential longer term projects, not designing a small scale game to fit the bulk of development inside of a gamejam window. I think it is a fortunate and hopefully mutually beneficial thing that the studio is operating as transparently as it is, and it is wonderful that employees are engaging with the spectating fans. But if one of my projects was selected and I had to read through a thread like this, I'd be bummed :( As developers obviously they are adaptive and used to opinion, but whether they're thick-skinned or not, I don't see the point to this dwelling 'convince me' negativity. Maybe the projects won't develop smoothly enough to go all the way, maybe they will. I think part of the fun of AF is to relieve the higher pressure of the usual development and foster more experimentation!

I'm sorry if this feels like an attack. I think maybe we are all just passionate fans and naturally had favourites we were hoping to see developed by a cool studio. But remember that it might be unfair to heap on this much doubt and vocal grief when the process has barely started. Usually I just lurk the forums but I didn't really like the direction this thread was continuing in

Yeah, wow. Steed and Mnemonic both look like content-heavy story-focused gimmicky shit. Really disappointed, because I was expecting What Could Go Wrong.

Good luck making Mnemonic in 2 weeks. I:m expecting another abortive White Birch-like experience.

Come on Sue, that's just rude!

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Can't change the fact that I never felt particularly excited about two thirds of the games that got picked. I don't think you can expect me to feel totally different about that and go all "ah, now I see it"
(emphasis mine)]

I won't comment on all your rephrasing but I really want to say that this half-quote was probably the most unfair since you make it look as if I said "I won't ever change my mind anyway" when in fact I never said or meant that.

Anyway, for the record, as I had hoped after sleeping over it I do see things a bit more positively and there's a lot of merit in what you said about Double Fine. Thanks again to everyone who tried to cheer me up yesterday.

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I'm sorry for being unfair! In cherrypicking quotations and using my own interpretations that might mischaracterize you. My meaning was to illustrate how negative the thread felt to me, but I can only speak for myself, and worse I don't want to exacerbate any negativity. Let's be buds and reconcile :) It's actually great to hear that you're feeling more optimistic or at least less sad. And it's not a bad idea to ask questions about the projects and their goals because the team leads are undoubtedly excited and probably would have some good answers !

I hope as a community we bring enough positivity to the event to encourage everyone involved in Amnesia Fortnight. I'm sure they're excited, but maybe they're nervous too! Anyways, I take it as a good sign that there were so many interesting pitches that resonated so diversely with the fans. Maybe some of them will have a chance to grow next year or outside of this event.

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I'm sorry for being unfair! In cherrypicking quotations and using my own interpretations that might mischaracterize you. My meaning was to illustrate how negative the thread felt to me

I mean yeah, of course it felt negative. I was in a negative mood ;) No seriously though, no hard feelings. It was indeed interesting to see how different people's preferences were. I mean there were obviously some pitches that were more popular than others but even in the first round I think there was no thread that didn't have at least one "this is my favorite pitch!" comment :)

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I originally voted for Mnemonic in the first round before changing it to Erras of Avventa (Kennedy Edition). I already voted for Bad Golf 2, Dear Leader then Mnemonic/Erras before I clicked on Steed, which I originally intended to be a must vote.

Overall, thanks to the community Bad Golf game, I'm happy.

I'll still vote for Bad Golf 3 next time though in a heartbeat. Hopefully the community game gets more people excited for that one next time.

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I'll admit that I voted for Steed, not because of "yay, horses," but "yay, John Bernhelm!" Have you watched Massive Chalice team streams? John as project lead means that we will get an appropriate number of puns per AF episode. Plus, maybe Brad will be on team Steed and have to work under John for a change :D!

Edit: I started posting this before John replied. This is case in point.

i think i didn't vote for steed because i was subconsciously worried that if steed worked out well it might mean he would stop working on massive challice.

but now that it is being made, i think the good aspects of the game will be:

1) the comedy, i think the idea of a horse being the real hero and the "heroes" are just bumbling idiots being cajoled into succeeding in quests is a good and funny concept

2) the gameplay, horses are pretty strong and with the mind of a human (the player) could be badass, plus with a "hero" on their back to swing a weapon or cast a spell i imagine you could take on quite a few enemies in spectacular style

3) the story, the story has been explained a lot more in the recent stream, so along with helping bumbling heroes complete quests, there is the story of the horse whispering stable boy who we (the horse) secretly help in proving that he is a worthy hero, which i think makes for some interesting game play aswell

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Ok, today's longer pitch made Mnemonic sound pretty cool.

Glad to see you are warming up to these pitches, for me Mnemonic was the game that caught my eye and was a definite vote from me not just because of the noir setting but because of the promise of a great mystery/suspense story and having a protagonist that cannot rely even on his own memory, it gave me a real vibe of the movie Memento which is one of my favorites. So the idea of getting to actually play such a character with unique gameplay mechanics which I for one have not seen before like collecting memory fragments to solve puzzles with the story evolving layer by layer based on the information gained from particular memories is just really fascinating and exciting.

Now voting for Steed on the other hand was because of completely different reasons, all of which were explained by John in the extended pitch yesterday. The initial reason is the inspirations that John cited which are primarily Disney movies really hit home, particularly The Sword in Stone which has a special place in my heart because I have watched it atleast a dozen times in my childhood and still love that movie. When it comes to the gameplay it is a unique take, in the sense that the secondary character is now the primary character which in this case is a horse and the secondary character is the stable boy which in any other game would be the main protagonist. This simple flip opens up a whole new world of possibilities in terms of the setting and gameplay mechanics which really excited me. Then there is a promise of real heart in the central relationship between the horse and the stable boy. I am a real sucker for stories where the central theme is friendship that is why one of my favorite comedy movies is SuperBad not because of the raunchy humor but because of the theme of fear of alienation from your childhood friends. Furthermore, as these games start developing I am sure your enthusiasm and excitement will be raised by observing the process of all the highly talented, creative and awesome folks tackling these ideas at DoubleFine studios. The journey is just beginning and I for one can't wait to see it all go down. :)

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