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Mnemonic Feedback

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If I have one comment on the negative side about Mnemonic, it is that there is a kind of positioning in 3D space equivalent to old time 2D pixel hunt for the lighting up of the alley, where you need to try to interact with the alley from a distance and don't necessarily realise it is even interactable then, but if you get closer you can't interact with it. That problem took me at least 10 min to figure out, and that's longer than I needed for thinking time in Broken Age (there was no go figure out where to get item/pixel hunt/trying everything out at random in that game for me) for all the puzzles combined.

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Spoilers in the entire post below:

If I have one comment on the negative side about Mnemonic, it is that there is a kind of positioning in 3D space equivalent to old time 2D pixel hunt for the lighting up of the alley, where you need to try to interact with the alley from a distance and don't necessarily realise it is even interactable then, but if you get closer you can't interact with it. That problem took me at least 10 min to figure out, and that's longer than I needed for thinking time in Broken Age (there was no go figure out where to get item/pixel hunt/trying everything out at random in that game for me) for all the puzzles combined.

I think there's a good reason for the specific alley example:

What is the main character trying to remember?

The look of the skyline.

It doesn't really make sence for him to look at (think about) a part of the sceen that doesn't include the skyline, and then remember how it looks. The ally scene doesn't really equate to pixel hunting, because the location where you have to use the photo is the location where the photo covers the actual mural exactly.

It's more about figuring it out, than just trying to find the right spot.

I think the whole dream-logic would probably have to be tutorialised (or just set in context more clearly) in a full game, because it's a bit hard to get used to, but it really does make sense.

I think taking those element away from the game (by for example make the spots all light up) would actually hurt the concept a lot.

Edit: my lack of english skills are really making this difficult to express.

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How dark is the game suppose to be? I can hardly see anything and I'm not sure if it's just my computer or how the game is suppose to be! I pick up the (what I think is) newspaper but it's completely black and can't read if there is anything on it!

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*spoiler post*

SimonCle: That you can't use the postcard on the alley when you are a bit closer than it covering the entire alley is strange to me. I should be able to look at a part of the mural and do it, there is no reason to have the postcard exactly match the size. It feels contrived to me that an item in a match-item-with-target adventure game not just needs to be correct item and correct target, but also while standing in a specific spot, when you have already figured out the actual match of item to target. This doesn't feel like a positional puzzle when you are in there.

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*spoiler post*

SimonCle: That you can't use the postcard on the alley when you are a bit closer than it covering the entire alley is strange to me. I should be able to look at a part of the mural and do it, there is no reason to have the postcard exactly match the size. It feels contrived to me that an item in a match-item-with-target adventure game not just needs to be correct item and correct target, but also while standing in a specific spot, when you have already figured out the actual match of item to target. This doesn't feel like a positional puzzle when you are in there.

*spoiler post*

Strange, it feels that way to me :D

It's not about use x on y, it's about triggering the main characters memory in the right way.

One thing that did confuse me, though, is the key.

In dream-logic why does it matter if the key looks right?

Shouldn't be more like: "oh yeah, there was a key in that drawer"?

The puzzle was still cool though.

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I also stood in the alley a long time cursing the puzzle that I thought I had solved but wasn't able to complete because as it turned out I was standing to close. The other puzzles just flew by though so I can't decide if that was a good or a bad thing.

The prototype definitely showed some potential. Especially the car scene used the fact that it's set in first person really well. I agree with those that have said that it felt like the notes didn't have any function in the prototype but can obviously be a great feature in a full length game.

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This is the game I was most looking forward to. The game had a fantastic atmosphere to it. You guys really hit it out of the park! Those transitions into each memory looked amazing. The main room of doors looked just like the original concept! I also loved the rorschach-type thing when you teleported. It all just looked at felt great.

I felt like I was flying through the game, then I got stuck and couldn't figure out what the hell to do. I hardly understood what was meant to be accomplished. I was just wandering around "focusing" on things, but I didn't feel like I was solving anything. I think I only knew items could be combined (like the key) because I watched the docs.

I love games where you uncover the storyline yourself, and it isn't spoon fed to you. But I just felt so lost. There was nothing leading into the gameplay, I was just suddenly doing things. I'd love to see a full game with some kind of opening cutscene, then I better way to introduce the mechanics of the game.

I would be super excited to see this game as something much bigger. With a fully fleshed-out story line full of mystery and twists and all that, I think there is loads of potential for something great.

EDIT: I managed to beat the game finally! Damn that took me a while to figure out. I think the game as a whole took about 30 minutes. Once I got the hang of things it was really fun. I would acquire one thing and instantly think, oh man! That must match together with X. It felt great to have those sorts of revelations! The ending was pretty strange. I don't have a clue what the hell happened... Overall this was pretty great! Definitely my top choice to see be made into a full game.

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They knocked this one out of the park. I went in not expecting much from it (it wasn't one I had voted for and 2PP had been portraying it as troubled) and came away really enjoying it. Now I gotta just hunt down that damn turkey leg....

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Hey you guys!

This is all terrific feedback - keep it coming! One of the constraints of Amnesia Fortnight is that there is literally NO time for any focus testing or really any play testing at all, which is why there are some puzzles that aren't tweaked so that they are as satisfying as they might be. Usually every game you play goes through rigorous testing that would identify these types of issues, but in this case you guys are the VERY FIRST focus testers this game has had. So you get it warts and all. But you also help us make the game as cool as it can be down the road, so thanks for that!

In short, we should def. tweak the postcard and key puzzles!

So glad you are enjoying Mnemonic and all the other prototypes! Thanks for your support and feedback!

Dan

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I also loved this prototype. As some others have already said, it already feels like a first chapter for a full version of the game. The atmosphere is amazing and it almost looks like an exact copy of Derek's concept art in 3D with awesome lighting and audio.

The puzzles were quite good as well and I really liked the idea of solving them to unlock further memories: it gave you this natural incentive to progress. I would imagine that it's going to be hard to design a full game with puzzles that make sense and logically tie into the story, though. It would probably be best to write a big design doc before starting anything of development ;-)

The only issues I had with solving the puzzles of the prototype resulted from the somewhat confusing control scheme, as has already been mentioned several times. For me it wasn't really clear why you'd need a focus ability: would always showing the interactive hotspots mess up the visuals too much? I'd say that, with some different visual effects, they could also fit in nicely with the concept of amnesia.

If getting rid of the focus ability is not an option, I'd definitely consider making it a toggle. When you are stuck, "hotspot hunting" is not a lot of fun when you have to continuously press the left trigger.

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I very rarely post to message boards (here or otherwise), but I felt compelled to write this message somewhere I thought it might be seen:

PLEASE make this into a full game. I would throw my money at it. I would Kickstart it to death. This is the point and click adventure game I've been waiting for. The premise is wonderful, and really allows the puzzles to get really clever and abstract and out of the box in a way that made them both challenging and immensely satisfying to solve. I'm also a huge fan of the choice to forego dialogue options and talking scenes and focus on full time puzzle solving - there really was confusion and mystery seeping out of every part of this game. The atmosphere - from lighting to use of color to music - was just about perfect. I'm a sucker for noir, and this felt built for me. It's also such a great tone for an adventure game... I really could not get enough of it.

The one thing I didn't immediately love was the steampunk mad science horror element, but the more I thought about it the more that grew on me too. Now I can't stop thinking about this world you guys built and where the story was going and would happen next. I spent a good long time on this game and enjoyed every second of it, and I've spent a good long while thinking about it since I stopped playing. For all the entertainment I've already gotten out of it, I really just want more!

Great job guys. And to repeat: PLEASE MAKE THIS A FULL GAME PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

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great playthrough experience, i think the absence of heavy hand holding was great, and i would love to see more puzzles within this game world. lighting is great, love the look of the character models and how they felt with their animation, somehow the models and bg really felt married together despite the two being kind of different stylistically. there came a point where i was running through the hub and the doors a lot trying to figure out stuff, and i think with focus testing that could be streamlined a bit more, but definitely would not want to to see more watered-down puzzles resulting from trying to accommodate the player's experience too much.

since this game is another adventure game where all these assets are used generally just once, i would love to see some fitting story elements that would allow for reuse of locations/memories again later in the game. maybe the idea of experience the same memory from someone else's perspective, where things are skewed and distorted but based on the same locations...or something like that!

and a yellowish focus light rather than blue one would have felt a little more appropriate to keep it feeling b/w, but maybe the blue was just too saturated. very great stuff, super glad derek stuck it out like a champ ! the whole team did a great job

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Spoilers in the entire post below:
If I have one comment on the negative side about Mnemonic, it is that there is a kind of positioning in 3D space equivalent to old time 2D pixel hunt for the lighting up of the alley, where you need to try to interact with the alley from a distance and don't necessarily realise it is even interactable then, but if you get closer you can't interact with it. That problem took me at least 10 min to figure out, and that's longer than I needed for thinking time in Broken Age (there was no go figure out where to get item/pixel hunt/trying everything out at random in that game for me) for all the puzzles combined.

I think there's a good reason for the specific alley example:

What is the main character trying to remember?

The look of the skyline.

It doesn't really make sence for him to look at (think about) a part of the sceen that doesn't include the skyline, and then remember how it looks. The ally scene doesn't really equate to pixel hunting, because the location where you have to use the photo is the location where the photo covers the actual mural exactly.

It's more about figuring it out, than just trying to find the right spot.

I think the whole dream-logic would probably have to be tutorialised (or just set in context more clearly) in a full game, because it's a bit hard to get used to, but it really does make sense.

I think taking those element away from the game (by for example make the spots all light up) would actually hurt the concept a lot.

Edit: my lack of english skills are really making this difficult to express.

I do think the idea of positioning being important as well as just combination of things is a cool one, and could set it apart, but I think in the final game there should be more done to prepare you for this, e.g. towards the start of the game a couple of easier puzzles where the idea of positioning and distance is conveyed, and then later harder puzzles where you really have to think about how to interact.

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I do think the idea of positioning being important as well as just combination of things is a cool one, and could set it apart, but I think in the final game there should be more done to prepare you for this, e.g. towards the start of the game a couple of easier puzzles where the idea of positioning and distance is conveyed, and then later harder puzzles where you really have to think about how to interact.

Exactly. If paced well it would not be an issue.

Also if there are too many doors perhaps they could add a hint option where if you push a key it tells you what room you need to be in to progress.

But if this is made into a full game I certainly hope the puzzles will be more complex than Broken Age, for example.

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I thought this was an outstanding prototype, and I'd buy a full game in a heartbeat!

I did wish there was more to the mystery revealed, but this was a prototype afterall- and in way, that was kind of the point- to get us intrigued enough in the whodunnit to demand a full story. I definitely liked the B/W film-noir art style and mechanics of the game- feels really original and compelling. The transitions were fantastic- loved those Rorschach smears! Reminded me of Donnie Darko!

The prototype really demonstrated the potential for puzzles that could be implemented as well as to the story telling. That certain printed text are smeared and photographs of faces blurred- but would clear up as more of the story is uncovered is an awesome idea! I have my theory as to who the killer is.. or could possibly be in the cool scenario that maybe the identity of the killer depends on how you piece the memories back together! :coolhmm:

[potato]Not sure how I felt about the beating human heart inside the device. That seemed more sci-fi than film noir, but I wasn't sure if that was just a figment of the narrator's imagination (like in a dream), or if that was really what the mystery involved. Not to say that a sci-fi element would necessarily be bad. I just think it should fit within the realms of film-noir era sci-fi- like the Philadelphia Project perhaps. [/potato]

Whatever the story Derek was planning, I really hope we get a full game of this!

Thank you, Team Mnemonic!

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That seemed more sci-fi than film noir, but I wasn’t sure if that was just a figment of the narrator’s imagination (like in a dream), or if that was really what the mystery involved.

It's all in his head.

Doesn't have to be one or the other, though -- tech noir does exist as a distinguishable genre. It could very well be something akin to period appropriate X-Files or 60s Outer Limits.

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really liked this, as I knew I would. youve really captured that dreamlike mood that just made me zone out! good work derek and team!

I didnt really understand the story but maybe that was intentional? it felt good and mysterious at any rate. this could be an awesome full game and I hope you make it at some point!

spoilers ahead:

I had no problem with the picture puzzle, although I was stuck there for a few minutes (which is just right).

if you want to make it more apparent that youre supposed to align it up, one thing you could do is that when you "hold" that object, you actually hold it up over the scene. making it transparent over the scene is probably too obvious, maybe holding the "use" button would hold it up more full-screen?

however the underlying logic of this puzzle doesnt sit completely right, even if actually solving it felt logical - Im not sure I like that a picture of the skyline triggers "how it looked". shouldnt it rather have been something suggestive of the shapes or something like that? something more vague? and the location should have mattered to the memory in that case?

*same goes for the key, it also felt a little combination-gimmicky and not like youre exploring a memory. I felt like that puzzle should have revolved around remembering what happened next (ie something that triggered the rest of the memory. "how did she find the key?") / what was on the other side of the door, instead of literally combining together a key. the exact shape of the key had presumably nothing to do with the memory of breaking into that office.

(also I had trouble finding the exact right spot to stand to combine the key with the skyline, maybe that was a bug? that one shouldnt be that exact at any rate. also that it says skyline on it is a bit much)

*the light puzzle was fair enough, but would have perhaps been even better if you picked up the more specific combination of two lights. single lights exists in other places, and two are more symbolic of an approaching car.

*isnt it strange that youre supposed to combine the heart-sound with the flying machine, but not in the balcony scene where it is also present? or is that part of the hint?

*the alley and the car the first time around are also very quickly over. even in the first playthrough, since the triggers really draws the eyes. maybe looking at the blood could be direction-sensitive (they only trigger the "right way up") and the brooch could have been more obscure / not visible at first?

*this isnt really feedback but Im not sure I think the hub is that necessary...? would also be cool to navigate the world purely on triggers back and forth, which could also be used as a narrative device to trap or guide the player...

*a little sad that dereks idea of looping gif memories didnt make it in, but you probably had your reasons.

the UI was totally okay, although for some reason using left click "putting away" inventory objects felt a little unintuitive. also didnt really like that an object becomes inactive with a time-out. I think I would have preferred if one option IN the inventory roll would be "nothing". (however that would break down in a full game with more items)

middle click = cancel?

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I finally got to the end of the Prototype!

Damn Cliffhanger! DAMN YOU CLIFFHANGER!

What does it all mean? What does it ALL mean?

If this game isn't developed with maybe much more puzzles and craziness... I will be very upset.

We never even got Derek's Wolves in Suits!

or that devious looking squareheaded business man!

All of Derek's concepts need to be fleshed out.

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Today I finally found some time to write some feedback on the prototypes. I will also add responses to the other corresponding threads. It was really interesting to see the games come together and it is really impressing what you did in two weeks. Also sorry if some of the things I write already were mentioned. I did not have time yet to read the rest of the feedback.

I did not vote for Mnemonic, but I really enjoyed what you created here and I would buy a full version. I like the music, the art style and general atmosphere of the game. The story was also interesting, even if many parts are only told by things you find in the environment and you have to piece it together mostly by yourself. The controls could probably still use some work, but it was good enough for a prototype, and i dont actually have any better ideas. The puzzles were intersting but quite abstract sometimes, but I think there were enough hints to solve these. The only puzzle I would criticize is the postcard puzzle in the alley (where you have to stand in the right place). Perhaps it would have been better to just give some hint like "that does not look right there" if you are not standing in the right place instead of not reacting at all. Oh, and please add an option for subtitles.

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I didn't vote for Mnemonic (actually Dear Leader was my only voted game out of the tree pitches), but i must say it was absolutely brilliant.

Watching the development diary i thought the whole project may fail at some point, but it came together pretty nicely in the end. Which is awesome really, considering Derek had no previous experience as a designer and that Brad kept saying that he had no idea how to make a graphic adventure game. Good job.

Would definetely buy a finished product. Hope DF would seriously think about it.

EDIT: A little more feedback: I got stuck at the picture puzzle as other people did. Not nearly as badly as i got stuck in other, full finished, highly praised, point-and-click adventures, tho, so it's perfectly fine. Just took me about half an hour to nail it.

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Nice AF-reference easter-egg if you let the credits loop for a bit :P

I did it for half an hour and nothing happened. Am i missing something?

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Man this was great! The prototype really carried the idea of reconstructing fragmented memories.

It was very satisfying to get to see more of each scene bit by bit, and figuring out the connections.

Given the cryptic nature of the plot, the puzzles often where less than clear, though. (I don't know if that can be improved?) For example, I don't think i would have ever used the light on the windshield, if I hadn't seen Tim do it at play day. Later, I had a moment of like 5 Minutes, where I furiously used everything with everything until I figured out what to do with the postcard. Modern Adventures try to avoid this, but it felt really nice and nostalgic for some reason, especially once I got the solution. it was much more satisfying because I was stuck for a bit.

I would really love a full game like this, I really want to know what Ni Corp is up to and why I lost my memory!

DEREK BRAND, YOU'RE A GENIUS! :D

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Nice AF-reference easter-egg if you let the credits loop for a bit :P

I did it for half an hour and nothing happened. Am i missing something?

It doesn't have to happen there. If you stop for a sufficient long time for example in the hub world, the comment will come there too. It's just a short comment about how it's been just two weeks, but feels like forever.

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Nice AF-reference easter-egg if you let the credits loop for a bit :P

I did it for half an hour and nothing happened. Am i missing something?

It doesn't have to happen there. If you stop for a sufficient long time for example in the hub world, the comment will come there too. It's just a short comment about how it's been just two weeks, but feels like forever.

I see. Nice reference indeed.

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From the Game Club interview I did with Tim on the 22nd:

And I think Mnemonic turned out to be one of the most successful of the prototypes - just really fun to play and really promising.

Fingers crossed that we see more of Mnemonic in the future :D

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After a brief hiatus away from Gaming, I finally got around to tackling that back log of doom on Steam and today I played through all the 2014 Amnesia Fortnight games and I have to say, i liked Mnemonic the best (Dear Leader a surprising second considering I wasn't interested at all in that but I still had fun being Legendary Leader MAX VIOLENT and handing out public execution orders!) , anyway yeah, the atmosphere, the music, the nice gameplay and actual old school style puzzle elements it had going, for a short prototype I want more of this! You can't just hint at this huge back story and events and then just end it like that, I'm assuming the main character we play is the same guy on the Wanted/Missing posters in the alley when the skyline gets drawn out? Can we at least get the soundtrack somewhere, the few tracks in this prototype are actually pretty good to listen, I sometimes just left myself standing in the door room just to listen to the music.

edit: Just noticed the thread a few slides down where Paul O'Rourke linked to his soundcloud for the music, Thanks!

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