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EdenCrow

What prototype should be a full game and why?

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Definitely Mnemonic for me. Gave me that rare feeling of a game that does its own thing entirely. Very excited to see more unique puzzles like the skyline key, had a real "wow" moment when i figured it out. Not to mention the awesome sound design and sweet noir look.

I also feel like it can have really varied gameplay since it uses dream logic and things only have to make sense within that context. I'd imagine a full game could have you use stuff like sound, emotions etc in super cool ways, not just restricted to pattern matching.

You've got a real unique idea here DF, make it happen!

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I would really love to see Mnemonic as a full game. I didn't vote for it as one of my three favorites, but I had such a great time playing the prototype and I just need to know how that story continues. Derek Brand, you might indeed be a genius and you fully convinced me of your game.

But I would also buy all the other games if they would be made. Dear Leader is beautiful and very addictive. Also Anna seems to be born to be a team leader. Steed is not really my kind of game, but it looks gorgeous and you can tell that it was made with so much love, which just makes it feel somehow special. And Little Pink Best Buds ... well, that prototype was absolutely crazy. And I love crazy. I would be very interested to see that game with a longer story, more weird twists and turns and a better polished gameplay.

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Mnemonic is artsy, and cool, and creative, and unique, and all the things that don't sell well... ever.

I don't think you're right. I mean, you are right for AAA console games, but for indie digital download game those are exactly the games that sell the most

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I think I'll probably feel better about Mnemonic in full game form, since I've found the prototype frustrating. Agreed on the skyline puzzle, that's absolute genius, but unfortunately it won't work for me, no matter where I stand or how I line it up :( Anyhow, Mnemonic's great and I think it'd be a good change of pace for DF.

Overall, though, I think Steed would be the best product for the company in the end. It's a perfect mix for DF's aesthetics and humour, is actually really fun and unique (I don't know why people think it's derivative), and really needs to be fleshed out. The team nailed the feeling of playing as a horse, not the rider, and I'd really love for the horse combat to be fleshed out, and for the multiple riders to be added in, that was my favourite feature of the pitch. DF has proved they can rock and open-world with BL, I'd adore a storybook set world with some twists where I can gallop around and pick up heroes to finish quests, with main missions involving Twig taking on those characteristics to uncover the mysteries mentioned in the pitch.

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Steed is my number one choice.

I believe the story of Steed would be truly captivating. To see Belle and Twig slowly become friends and grow together would make a great narrative.

Although the prototype may have shown a limited view of the full game I think it was still very enjoyable and achieved the feeling of being the horse and how the combat can work.

I love the idea of the reversed roles between horse and rider and showing that the unsung heroes, from games like the Legend of Zelda and Shadow of the Colossus, were the horses and this game would be a love letter to those brave beasts.

What I hope to see if Steed was a full game would be a world filled with plenty of characters and diverse situations. That players can feel a part of and spend time exploring. Just like the Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time but you play as Epona and have your own quest to accomplish, like saving the world or saving a part of the world for the animals to be free.

I would choose Mnemonic second as I loved the art style and how the puzzles can be incorporated with the unique aesthetic.

When the prototype ended I was left wanting to find out more about the story.

Mnemonic reminded me of Gone Home, and I found it to be much more interesting, since the player is more involved as they have to work out the puzzles to progress.

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1 - Steed - Great looking, fun to play, with a massive open world sprinkled with some quests the replay value would be massive. Even at just 2 weeks there was a framework for a setting and continuing story. I loved playing and my kids loved playing it. I can also see some multiplayer possibilities with this one. Get this one done up. Full retail purchase, probably multiple so I can play against the kids.

2 - Mnemonic - Again for the time they had the mood and story were all there waiting to be fleshed out. I loved the interface. The time spent on the lighting was worth it. Full retail purchase.

3 - Dear Leader - Great graphics and a game style. Not as much replay as Steed though.

4 - LPBB - I really wanted to like this game. As a story being told it works as a one off. As a game, it just wasn't there. I understand that the chat functions did not pan out right and the time crunch had them strip away the elements that would have made the game way more playable. AI of the type I think they were going for would be amazing in a story telling game, maybe tie up responses with those from other players in real time so the game AI grows as it is being played across players....but I did not see any of that in what I played. PW's Zombie pitch would have been a better game.

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Mnemonic for me. I wasn't expecting to like it as much as I ended up liking it. Plus, I'm a fan of VR and think it could be a big hit in 1-2 years when the Rift becomes available to the public... maybe even the "killer app"!?

That said, any of these games would be great IMO, and I hope Pen and Tim team up on something if they are up for it...

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Little Pink Best Buds for me. I like where they were going with the idea, and the talking thing sounds really cool.

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LPB if they ditched the chat box and made it more of a selection of different chats so it was more manageable.

Otherwise Steed I'd inordinately have the most fun with if it was expanded into a full game.

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In order of Stand-ups:

- Steed: This game need an enormous amount of content, so will be heck of an expensive thing. But it is probably the most viable game for a broader audience. but the first and foremost thing it needs is a large open world. There should be some award for exploring, so more side quest focused than main quest line focus - which the story needs to make clear. The Bumbling heroes should be cool, but the Grexen (which I seriously think needs to change to a better name, Uglum was better) can't be the only enemies, more like 7-10 main types would be good, and those should be able to switch equipment and style a bit so that they can make up maybe 20-30 total enemy types. Lso good if there were some critters and so on in the game, I can just see Bella stopping to have a chat with the neighbour's sheep... I also want more horsey stuff to do, like jumping, gallop and trot competitions or maybe even circus arcobatics from the horse-being-in-right-place-and-have-movement-to-keep-acrobat-where-they-should-be-and-be-going-to. Things like jousting where you help your hero by positioning etc. so that he hits his enemy knight who is riding the evil mastermind Ardennais who is the true antagonist of the main game etc. It's got awesome feel already but that needs to be expanded on for the full game. It needs more varied environs to roam through and can't be going without a good character customisation screen! I see two possible ways to do this: get a regular publisher to sponsor it for $20 mil or so... or make a smaller much more limited world at first, but just as much horsing around, and kickstart it. Then kickstart expansions that build the world into the larger expansive open world we'd like it to be.

- Dear Leader: This game could easily be a hit. It needs to be made, and could probably made with relatively small budget during a 6 month period or so. It needs to feature a little more response to your actions so that consequences of your actions are more visible, and expanded time span. Probably branch the underlying systems out a bit so that you can do more varied things and see a little more environs than your desk and the balcony. How about actually going to party meetings, international meetings with other rulers, more foreign politics and so on. I definitely see this game going somewhere and within a much shorter time span than the others.

- Mnemonic: This could be a short and sweet linear game concentrating on lore and narrative, or a larger and more fleshed out noir investigation agency type thing (nor sure how well that would mesh with the dream world setting) where you have several cases to take in some form of branching tree or object graph and so on. Or it could be a much more fleshed out single storyline where you have more exploration of several different memories that are each at least as large as the entire prototype, and where you start with a few locations and solve puzzles in a way that makes traversing back and forth and returning to settings and so natural, where some events unlock more memories, and where you finally tie it all together to a comprehensive whole. Just need to be able to design it so well that you avoid getting stuck on single puzzles for long times, basically resorting to the use everything on everything everywhere problem where you maybe don't even notice that something is interactable or even a world element.

- Little Pink Best Buds: This needs very much R&D work - the chat scripts need to be much more extensive, answers need to be snappier, the system and smarter. They should be able to chat or bicker in between themselves and talk to other buds instead of always turning to you, including animation wise. The player interaction is really clunky and needs to be developed to be less so. There needs to be a HUGE amount of voice acting in it, and if the grass area is as huge portion of the game as it is in this prototype, then I see it getting boring instead of really replayable. So, there needs to be bigger sets of environs outside the grass and house, probably linked to which bud you choose. I see this project needing way more money for development than it will ever get from sales.

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Steed was my favourite from the pitch and the prototype only cemented that choice. I honestly think it would make a great AA title - the pitch doesn't feel like it would work as an indie game. It's a great twist on a classic genre that needs a big game.

For the indie vote I'd go for Best Buds, because it's the most unique. Kinda reminds me of Noby Noby Boy.

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I think the problem with Pink Best Buds is, that it propably is way, way too expensive game to be produced against possible profits. Do be done properly it would need a huge budget and research that spans over several years. Hell, it would actually beneift from and could be used as an AI research project. And yet I still think it wouldn't work that well as a game, but more as a curiosity piece.

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While I feel like Dear Leader and Mnemonic are really promising, I can't help but vote for Little Pink Best Buds.

I NEED more Dog Guy.

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for me, winner of the best prototype goes to Mnemonic. It had the best art aesthetic and showed the most potential with its mechanics. I still want to see what comes from the little best buds... but it didnt translate great in the prototype. I also like the concept of dear leader, but so far the gameplay had me getting bored and wanting somthing more from the mechanics. Theres no way i could take hours of just making edict dialogue choices.

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After what I saw going in, I'm surprised that I'd probably say Mnemonic. Surprised me the most with its puzzles and design, was like old school adventure game fever dream. The first person field of view was low enough that it made me sick after a few minutes, though. I bet I would be puking all over if I had an Oculus Rift. :P

I liked all of them for different reasons, it's kind of hard to choose. Dear Leader has a lot of flavor and potential, Steed has some mechanical fun and a pleasant setting, and LPBB is just insane, even without the chatbot stuff working as you hoped it would.

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It's hard. Here's what I would suggest if I DIDN'T have to just pick one:

Drop Steed - it's a fine prototype and a good idea, but I think it's also a big idea that'll need considerable investment to do justice.

Make Dear Leader - even the little slice of gameplay we got was suggestive of how interesting this game could get if it was fleshed out. It would need a small team and could easily release multiplatform - this seems to me to be the no-brainer of the bunch.

Make Mnemonic - This one is buzzing with possibility. It already looks great and it relatively little work they could develop the style into something really striking. I think this could make an excellent 2-4 hour story/puzzle game without outstaying its welcome.

Work with Pen Ward on another game, but not LPBB - I'd love to see Best Buds in a more fully realised form that was impossible to achieve in 2 weeks, but it's kind of lessened when the main potatoes are revealed. So unless they can come up with brand new potatoes, I'd just love to see Pen working with them on some other project. It's quite clear to me that his unhinged storytelling methods are suited to Double Fine's style, so I think they should work on something else, something new.

--

For the Poll I picked Dear Leader, since I think they'd be crazy NOT to make that one.

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A finished LPBB would have a unique ending for each path taken with one of the buds. I don't think it's too far of a stretch to presume that each path would reveal a bit more of the back story, a piece of a larger puzzle. So I doubt we have even seen half of the potatoes yet! :)

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A finished LPBB would have a unique ending for each path taken with one of the buds. I don't think it's too far of a stretch to presume that each path would reveal a bit more of the back story, a piece of a larger puzzle. So I doubt we have even seen half of the potatoes yet! :)
Mm, if that's the path they went down, I'd just be worried about the scope. I think I'd still rather see them try a smaller game idea with Pen.

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Well, let's see... I couldn't play Mnemonic at all, because its interface isn't compatible with my mouse. (I can left click, right click, and scroll, but only one at a time, not two or three simultaneously.) Dear Leader just ... trailed off to nothing, and I'm pretty sure I never got to Era 2 (It would let me know, right?) but instead just reached a point where there were no more calls from ministers, nothing left to do but keep re-surveilling all my staff & leaking new discrediting stories to the press about the missing revolutionary... I passed three or four days that way. At one point I got to re-name a city, but I just named it "Boring" because I'd long since run out of things to do. I really wanted to like it, and I'll probably try again; I guess the game is more interesting if you play it badly? Steed was sadly little more than a tech demo for 'playing as a horse' and gave me no more idea what the full game would be like than I had during the 30-second pitch. LPBB (and yes, I got to the credits) was ... just as much a mess as I expected when I was pleading to be able to pay/vote for another DFer slot.

Still, I think my votes would go to:

1) Mnemonic (because I'm sure they can work out their interface limitations, if given more time, and the concept is still my favorite of the prototypes),

2) What Could Go Wrong (my favorite of the pitches), and

3) Dear Leader (because, again, with more time they could more thoroughly cover the possibility space to prevent people from making a country so successful its leader has nothing to do)

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Well, let's see... I couldn't play Mnemonic at all, because its interface isn't compatible with my mouse. (I can left click, right click, and scroll, but only one at a time, not two or three simultaneously.) Dear Leader just ... trailed off to nothing, and I'm pretty sure I never got to Era 2 (It would let me know, right?) but instead just reached a point where there were no more calls from ministers, nothing left to do but keep re-surveilling all my staff & leaking new discrediting stories to the press about the missing revolutionary... I passed three or four days that way. At one point I got to re-name a city, but I just named it "Boring" because I'd long since run out of things to do. I really wanted to like it, and I'll probably try again; I guess the game is more interesting if you play it badly? Steed was sadly little more than a tech demo for 'playing as a horse' and gave me no more idea what the full game would be like than I had during the 30-second pitch. LPBB (and yes, I got to the credits) was ... just as much a mess as I expected when I was pleading to be able to pay/vote for another DFer slot.

Still, I think my votes would go to:

1) Mnemonic (because I'm sure they can work out their interface limitations, if given more time, and the concept is still my favorite of the prototypes),

2) What Could Go Wrong (my favorite of the pitches), and

3) Dear Leader (because, again, with more time they could more thoroughly cover the possibility space to prevent people from making a country so successful its leader has nothing to do)

Man, sounds like you ran into bugapalooza.

About Dear Leader, did you not ever receive a summary screen of any kind? Did you just force-quit or something?

It's not about playing well or playing badly -- it sounds like you must have done something that upset a trigger. Just a bug.

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No, it's quite easy to run Dear Leader into a nothing you do gets any game response scenario. When that happen I found I could actually get life back into the ministers by doing development project edicts (or whatever they are called) and then propaganda edicts (or whatever they are called). Also, if you do surveilance and searches you find the data hidden among the lot in the reports book and you need to dig through that.

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Man, sounds like you ran into bugapalooza.

About Dear Leader, did you not ever receive a summary screen of any kind? Did you just force-quit or something?

It's not about playing well or playing badly -- it sounds like you must have done something that upset a trigger. Just a bug.

Nope, no summary screen, I gave up and quit, like I said. Having to pass a meaningless edict to move the hour forward, then having to repeat that many, many times to move the day forward, then moving forward several days without anything but that ... and I knew it was a bug and I quit. Clearly, they did not mean for me to run out of things to do.

But from reading other forum posts, it sounds like, for example, having a traitor is based on a combination of starting values and how you treat your ministers—where by treating them well, you may simply not have a traitor. And being overthrown doesn't happen if you've already killed the revolutionaries—and I killed my revolutionary so quickly (through what, if the wording of the edicts was to be believed, was a legal and just process), I had ministers asking me days later whether I wanted to assassinate them in secret. And by synchronizing my 5-year-plans with my propaganda, the people seemed to stay happy, and ... then I didn't have anything else to do.

It seemed like the scenarios they planned for were all predicated on things going badly, rather than well.

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My vote goes to Mnemonic, it has the most promise for me and I love the noire feel to the world.

I agree with an earlier comment that Dear Leader would make an awesome Tablet game, but it isn't the sort of thing I'd play on my computer.

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I'd recommend Dear Leader to be done as a tablet game as well. It's simple enough to work very nicely on touch screen, as the UI doesn't have any fancy special needs.

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I voted for Dear Leader - great visuals, music, gameplay, etc. I'd prefer a PC version though as I'm not really into handheld gaming (and I don't have a tablet).

Mnemonic would be my second choice. It had a nice style to it and felt surprisingly polished, given the production troubles early on.

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I'd probably dig Dear Leader the most. But Steed and Mnemonic are pretty cool, and seem within DF's wheel house.

Smiles

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Dear Leader has to be done IMO, it's a safe bet and could turn great.

I hope Mnemonic will have a chance too because I think we only scratched the surface of what could it be with the prototype, and that suface was so good

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Man, sounds like you ran into bugapalooza.

About Dear Leader, did you not ever receive a summary screen of any kind? Did you just force-quit or something?

It's not about playing well or playing badly -- it sounds like you must have done something that upset a trigger. Just a bug.

Nope, no summary screen, I gave up and quit, like I said. Having to pass a meaningless edict to move the hour forward, then having to repeat that many, many times to move the day forward, then moving forward several days without anything but that ... and I knew it was a bug and I quit. Clearly, they did not mean for me to run out of things to do.

But from reading other forum posts, it sounds like, for example, having a traitor is based on a combination of starting values and how you treat your ministers—where by treating them well, you may simply not have a traitor. And being overthrown doesn't happen if you've already killed the revolutionaries—and I killed my revolutionary so quickly (through what, if the wording of the edicts was to be believed, was a legal and just process), I had ministers asking me days later whether I wanted to assassinate them in secret. And by synchronizing my 5-year-plans with my propaganda, the people seemed to stay happy, and ... then I didn't have anything else to do.

It seemed like the scenarios they planned for were all predicated on things going badly, rather than well.

I dunno, everything went pretty well for me and the only problem I ran into was that some person I arrested kept on coming back for some reason, even after executing him. There were one or two spots where I had to pass some edics just to trigger something, but that's okay, that's just because there's not that much stuff in the prototype. In a full version of the game it's easy to see how they could make it such that you never run out of things to do, or have other things to occupy the nothing-to-do space (such as the tantalising hint of interaction with family members)

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Mnemonic and Dear Leader. both great games on their own. I wont doubt on pre-order, kickstart, indiegogo both of them

of course Breach should also be made :D

EZ 8-D

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I voted for Steed. I felt it had a ton of potential and looked beautiful. I spent more time running around the beautiful world than most of the other prototypes combined. Plus, if they add in the mega-poops from the Day 10 stream, you could have a best seller.

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