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Quinn

German dub for Grim Fandango Remastered please!

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Hi there Tim and Team!

I just had to open up a new thread for this, first to say thank you, because Grim Fandango is my favorite adventure of all time and I can't wait to play the remastered version.

Still, I need to to beg you, please release this with it's original german dub (in german speaking countries). So much nostalgia and charm was in this dub back in the day, and if I play it again it has to be with its original german voice cast.

So, I hope you guys will confirm this soon! Thank you so much,

all the best,

Quinn

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Can i ask why Germany and France dont like English ? its always wierded me out.

I mean specially i would never play games or watch movies in Danish, its just horrible. Having someone else speaking.

Maybe just me.

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It has nothing to do with not liking. In fact many germans prefer to have an "original" version, because some dubbed version of games or movies are bad, or they fear they miss some jokes, etc. But not everybody is fluent in english. Also it's not really fun to play a game with a dictionary next to you when you have look up every second word.

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I can't imagine that they'll change and voice acting or story in any region. We'll just have to wait and see how much of a graphical overall it gets.

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Can i ask why Germany and France dont like English ? its always wierded me out.

I mean specially i would never play games or watch movies in Danish, its just horrible. Having someone else speaking.

Maybe just me.

Oh actually I really like the english language and most games are way better in English. But Grim Fandango had a great iconic dub (as did many LucasArts games back in the day, especially the Monkey Island games). I want to have the same expierence again that I had when I first played it. And the german dub was a big part of that.

Considering that the german dub already exists I doubt it would be to much work to include it.

But I fear nonetheless since Kingdom Hearts also had a fantastic german dub filled with all the childhood nostalgia and they just did not include it in the HD remasters (which was followed by a shitstorm of pissed fans).

Anyway, I really hope Double Fine will hear their german fans out and include it. (They already know german people love adventures right.... even though I'm Austrian ^^ and I think it had a lot to do with great dubs back in the day)

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It has nothing to do with not liking. In fact many germans prefer to have an "original" version, because some dubbed version of games or movies are bad, or they fear they miss some jokes, etc. But not everybody is fluent in english. Also it's not really fun to play a game with a dictionary next to you when you have look up every second word.

I think it's mostly something that they are used to, as all their media is dubbed. They are very consistent with it, for example every movie star has their own voice actor for dubbing. They then prefer the dubbed version of movies in general, because for them that's the correct voices with the faces.

Other countries use subtitles. I'm from the Netherlands, and most of us would prefer subtitles over dubbing, because that is what we are used to. Although more and more shows and movies for children are getting dubbed now.

I'm not sure, but maybe the use of dubs or subtitles has something to do with proficiency in English. I figure if you live in a country that only uses dubs for movies and tv, you never hear any different language than your own, so learning English in school might be more difficult, because you are not used to hearing the language. Where I'm from, most of our media is English, so even though we read the subtitles, we hear English all the time. I really believe this is a big factor in the fact that some countries have better English speakers than others.

When I played the old adventure games as a kid, I had no other option but to play them entirely in English, and it was pretty educational. I actually remember playing Grim Fandango like once or twice a year, and every year my English would have improved, so every time I understood new little things I missed before. It kept the game fresh!

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It has nothing to do with not liking. In fact many germans prefer to have an "original" version, because some dubbed version of games or movies are bad, or they fear they miss some jokes, etc. But not everybody is fluent in english. Also it's not really fun to play a game with a dictionary next to you when you have look up every second word.

I think it's mostly something that they are used to, as all their media is dubbed. They are very consistent with it, for example every movie star has their own voice actor for dubbing. They then prefer the dubbed version of movies in general, because for them that's the correct voices with the faces.

Well, that's a little biased.

Actually, most of my friends don't watch dubbed movies, they watch all the english movies in english. I do too, most of the time.

But the truth is, Germany really dubs all foreign movies, and since they do that and did that for many years, they actually have build up a whole "industry" of great voice actors. This means, that sometimes the german version is even better than the original, because they have such great voice actors. Still, that is just true for some voice actors and some movies/games.

The Last Of Us for example is a million times better in English, but many other games sound pretty great in German as well.

From what I heard, Grim Fandango is pretty good in English, but that doesn't change the fact that I grew up with the german dub of Grim Fandango. When I played it, I was still too young to understand English, so I played the german dub of course.

And know what, it was just very very well done.

And when you play games from your past, you actually want to get that nostalgic feeling, right? You want to feel like you felt when you first played Grim Fandango. I want to say "Oh my god, that's so great, I recognize all those characters again (also because of their voices of course) but they look so pretty now. I can't wait to experience this story again".

Seriously, I doubt I would buy it if the german dub is not included. That may sound dumb, since I speak English, but it's just not the feeling I want to get when I play this. If I would play this again but in another language that I knew it, I would just think about how much I miss the german voice actors all the time. It would not be a good experience for me.

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I fear that Disney doesn't even own the copyright to the German dub. It probably belonged to Softgold back then, the company who localized Grim Fandango into German. According to Wikipedia Softgold was bought by THQ. Who knows what happened to those rights after THQ got torn into pieces...

But yeah, the German localization of GF is excellent. I really would like to hear it in the remastered version, too. :)

But rights issues will most likely prevent this, unless efforts by fans save the day, of course. :/

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I fear that Disney doesn't even own the copyright to the German dub. It probably belonged to Softgold back then, the company who localized Grim Fandango into German. According to Wikipedia Softgold was bought by THQ. Who knows what happened to those rights after THQ got torn into pieces...

But yeah, the German localization of GF is excellent. I really would like to hear it in the remastered version, too. :)

But rights issues will mostly prevent this, save for efforts by fans maybe. :/

If true, that would really be a deal breaker for me. :(

I just want to make sure Double Fine knows that this is going to be a big deal for many german fans, so I hope you guys do everything to get the rights to the dub. I count on you! :D

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And when you play games from your past, you actually want to get that nostalgic feeling, right? You want to feel like you felt when you first played Grim Fandango. I want to say "Oh my god, that's so great, I recognize all those characters again (also because of their voices of course) but they look so pretty now. I can't wait to experience this story again".

Oh man, I totally get that. Grim just wouldn't be the same without the voices each of us is used to. Alongside the music, the voices are an incredible source of nostalgia! So yes, I do hope for you guys that all the original localized voices will be in there. Or else they'll just have to call all the original voice actors in and do it again. :P

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Can i ask why Germany and France dont like English ? its always wierded me out.

I only can speak for me, but in this case (wich is not so often =P) the german version was very good. Tommi Piper is great :)

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I wouldn't have thought LucasArts would give up copyright in their dubs. The localization companies have nothing to gain for having copyright of localised dialogue when they don't own the copyright in the game itself. They would have been doing work for hire, and the dubbed audio would be fully owned by LucasArts (and now Disney)

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I wouldn't have thought LucasArts would give up copyright in their dubs. The localization companies have nothing to gain for having copyright of localised dialogue when they don't own the copyright in the game itself. They would have been doing work for hire, and the dubbed audio would be fully owned by LucasArts (and now Disney)
It's not unheard of for localized versions to be owned by the localizer. They pay a royalty back to the original owner on sales but are the ones who actually own it in that particular country. No idea if Grim was that way though. (This is also why you get Robotech/Macross confusion in America for example.)

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Yeah, as far as I know that was common practice back then. It makes sense since the foreign/local publishers had to pay for the localization themselves. I'm not sure how that has changed.

They pay a royalty back to the original owner on sales but are the ones who actually own it in that particular country.

I think you're right. Grim Fandango was still sold in Germany just a few years back. Amazon.de says that this edition was released in 2007.

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I wouldn't have thought LucasArts would give up copyright in their dubs. The localization companies have nothing to gain for having copyright of localised dialogue when they don't own the copyright in the game itself. They would have been doing work for hire, and the dubbed audio would be fully owned by LucasArts (and now Disney)

It depends on the contract they made. Some of the localized versions were done by the distributer. They payed for the rights to sell the game in their territory and also payed for the localization. It's not like game companies always payed a localization company to do the other voices and translations.

DF/Disney has to sort this out, but would be a shame if they could not use the dubbed versions.

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I wouldn't have thought LucasArts would give up copyright in their dubs. The localization companies have nothing to gain for having copyright of localised dialogue when they don't own the copyright in the game itself. They would have been doing work for hire, and the dubbed audio would be fully owned by LucasArts (and now Disney)

It depends on the contract they made. Some of the localized versions were done by the distributer. They payed for the rights to sell the game in their territory and also payed for the localization. It's not like game companies always payed a localization company to do the other voices and translations.

DF/Disney has to sort this out, but would be a shame if they could not use the dubbed versions.

A royalty deal doesn't imply copyright ownership, nor does being a distributor. Distributors usually operate under a distribution licence, but the copyright will remain with the publisher. Once te deal expires I would expect the publisher to own everything, including localisation assets. It's possible there's some sort of royalty involved, but those things usually have a lifespan.

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Why should LucasArts have received the copyright to the German dub when Softgold paid for it? Makes even less sense to me from a business perspective.

I can't buy The Dig in German on Steam, which I should be able to if LucasArts owned the rights to the German dub, so either it doesn't or it doesn't care to make use of it. We can only speculate, I guess.

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Why should LucasArts have received the copyright to the German dub when Softgold paid for it? Makes even less sense to me from a business perspective.

I can't buy The Dig in German on Steam, which I should be able to if LucasArts owned the rights to the German dub, so either it doesn't or it doesn't care to make use of it. We can only speculate, I guess.

Definitely an interesting topic. Would be great to get some clarification on that by Tim or someone else involved.

Although I know it's probably a bit early to tell in regards to the Grim Fandango Remake. Haven't even seen a single screenshot of it yet.

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Italian fans are already worrying about our dubbing too! :-P

And I must say, even if the original English voices are top-notch, our version was pretty good, featuring great professional performances.

I don't think the dubbings were copyrighted by foreign publishers, because in 2007 the Italian version of Grim Fandango was re-published by Activision, the LucasArts "European branch" at the time. CTO, the original Italian publisher, went out of business in 2004, but that didn't seem to affect that limited re-release.

So... I really think LucasArts was the ultimate owner of international versions.

The real question is: all voice-overs in Grim should be 22Khz, which I don't think is acceptable in 2014. I still hope they'll leave foreign dubbings in the game, regardless of their sound quality. Unless they manage to get all the masters (both English and international): that would be awesome.

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The real question is: all voice-overs in Grim should be 22Khz, which I don't think is acceptable in 2014. I still hope they'll leave foreign dubbings in the game, regardless of their sound quality. Unless they manage to get all the masters (both English and international): that would be awesome.

Well, if the original recording exists, I bet there would be a way to enhance them. Still, I would even take them in it's original quality, I just want to have them back. :)

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Why should LucasArts have received the copyright to the German dub when Softgold paid for it? Makes even less sense to me from a business perspective.

I can't buy The Dig in German on Steam, which I should be able to if LucasArts owned the rights to the German dub, so either it doesn't or it doesn't care to make use of it. We can only speculate, I guess.

If just talking about localization, LucasArts would have paid for the localization work, not the other way around, unless this is a really CRAZY deal (I work in the area of rights and license agreements and I've never seen anything of that kind).

If it's a distribution deal, LucasArts would have sold distribution rights, in the form of a license, the distributor would have either paid LucasArts a flat fee for the right to distribute for a limited period, or more likely there was an advance and some sort of royalty arrangement.

The nature of the deal could be that along with distribution rights, the distributor has localisation rights, and it's true that sometimes this can cause copyright issues, and maybe it did in this case, but even then that's usually due to exclusivity - if the distributor has an exclusive distribution deal for the localised version, that would prevent the publisher from using that version even if they held the copyright. I've seen that a few times. But most of the time there'll be a clause in there to say that the publisher retains copyright in the recordings or that it reverts, because otherwise you end up with crazy situations where you don't own bits of the foreign versions of your game.

I would think a more likely reason you can't by The Dig in German on Steam is probably purely because they haven't provided it.

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The real question is: all voice-overs in Grim should be 22Khz, which I don't think is acceptable in 2014. I still hope they'll leave foreign dubbings in the game, regardless of their sound quality. Unless they manage to get all the masters (both English and international): that would be awesome.

Well, if the original recording exists, I bet there would be a way to enhance them. Still, I would even take them in it's original quality, I just want to have them back. :)

The original recordings were done in 44khz and LucasArts got them. If they still have them on a backup, that's the real question.

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The original recordings were done in 44khz and LucasArts got them. If they still have them on a backup, that's the real question.

Do you think the foreign voice overs were in 44Khz too? I suppose so.

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The original recordings were done in 44khz and LucasArts got them. If they still have them on a backup, that's the real question.

Do you think the foreign voice overs were in 44Khz too? I suppose so.

Yes.

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To the people who have fond memories of the localised dubs, could you tell us some more about them? Why did they stand out from others at the same time? How did they deal with the Mexican lingo and accents? Any other interesting stuff you could tell us? Thanks! It's not something I really thought about, outside of the Robert Frost change thing (which I always thought was a little unnecessary, actually!).

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If SoftGold actually did own the rights to the dub, and it carried over to THQ, and they sold it in the auction, it would most likely have ended up with Nordic Games (as they "acquired 'substantially all' of THQ's remaining intellectual property". If this is true, Nordic and Double Fine have a relation through Stacking and Costume Quest, so it could happen. Of course this is all speculation, but who knows?

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To the people who have fond memories of the localised dubs, could you tell us some more about them? Why did they stand out from others at the same time? How did they deal with the Mexican lingo and accents? Any other interesting stuff you could tell us? Thanks! It's not something I really thought about, outside of the Robert Frost change thing (which I always thought was a little unnecessary, actually!).

Well, LucasArts games were the first games that had voice acting to begin with. I don't know why, but today many games are being dubbed in german with amateur voice actors because it's cheap. (although it's getting better, especially Ubisoft is giving us more and more high quality dubs)

I can't say if it was much better back in the day, I only know that there were some games, especially LucasArts adventures that were done really good. In Sam & Max, the voice actress of Max was actually the same that voices Bart Simpson in the german version of the Simpsons.

And Tommi Piper, who voices Manny in Grim Fandango is actually the standard german voice of Tony Danza. xD

So it always was like watching a high quality movie or tv show because you knew some of the voices from TV. It's like when today Jack Black is voicing a character in Broken Age. A voice you recognize and love.

It's hard to explain, but the main reason is of course that I know the game with the german voices. It was a well done dub with good actors and I just want to experience it again the way I know it, just with updated graphics and controls. ;)

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I can't find it, but one of Tim's tweets from the other day said that the situation with localisations is something they still need to research, but also that he would have thought the copyrights were retained by LEC - which is what I would have thought, too.

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To the people who have fond memories of the localised dubs, could you tell us some more about them? Why did they stand out from others at the same time? How did they deal with the Mexican lingo and accents? Any other interesting stuff you could tell us? Thanks! It's not something I really thought about, outside of the Robert Frost change thing (which I always thought was a little unnecessary, actually!).

Well, LucasArts games were the first games that had voice acting to begin with. I don't know why, but today many games are being dubbed in german with amateur voice actors because it's cheap. (although it's getting better, especially Ubisoft is giving us more and more high quality dubs)

I can't say if it was much better back in the day, I only know that there were some games, especially LucasArts adventures that were done really good. In Sam & Max, the voice actress of Max was actually the same that voices Bart Simpson in the german version of the Simpsons.

And Tommi Piper, who voices Manny in Grim Fandango is actually the standard german voice of Tony Danza. xD

So it always was like watching a high quality movie or tv show because you knew some of the voices from TV. It's like when today Jack Black is voicing a character in Broken Age. A voice you recognize and love.

It's hard to explain, but the main reason is of course that I know the game with the german voices. It was a well done dub with good actors and I just want to experience it again the way I know it, just with updated graphics and controls. ;)

That's pretty interesting. And I can definitely get the desire to hear it the way you heard it before, for sure.

But for someone with English as a second language, I must say it's worth hearing the full English voices, too. The whole cast does such an amazing job on that game, that I would say it would be worth a run through with the english voices even if the German ones are the ones you know and love.

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