Jump to content
Double Fine Action Forums
Sign in to follow this  
Jethro

The 1.0 Release: Lack of Communication and Disappointment

Recommended Posts

Yes, I aslo share a deep sadnes and disapointment... They had so much great plans and abitions at the begining and now they are simply dumping the project... I thought that tihs will never happend with the Double Fine, they have reputation and everything, but well... I feel betraied... Want anyone ask why people choose to go to the torrents?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's the nature of Early Access though. You're not buying a complete game. By paying for the product early before development is done you accept the risk that the final product might not turn out to your liking. The Steam Early Access FAQ clearly states:

Its up to the developer to determine when they are ready to 'release'. Some developers have a concrete deadline in mind, while others will get a better sense as the development of the game progresses. You should be aware that some teams will be unable to 'finish' their game. So you should only buy an Early Access game if you are excited about playing it in its current state.

The Spacebase team had a set of features they wanted in the game. Some of them didn't make it into the game, but as the blog post stated they reached a point in development where they feel like they're getting ready to release. Maybe it hasn't reached its "full potential", but Double Fine has to weigh development costs versus potential sales and isn't some AAA studio that can keep piling money onto the project indefinitely.

You're all still getting a game, even if it's not everything you wanted it to be. No broken promises, but perhaps a few broken dreams.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, when the game hits, 1.0 i'd like to be offered a refund so that i can purchase the retail version, or not purchase the retail version like every other consumer that will see the Retail v1.0 experience of the game, and decide that way.

best idea ever

but what about games that just have no updates ever, I've experienced a few like that on Desura, games like Project Stormos and Rawbots are nice examples of betrayal. Would love a refund from those scams. Will settle by making videos on my youtube channel shaming each dev of these ridiculous games, keeping a list and making sure we don't buy from any of them again. they can always make a new compnay name which is why their names are more important. to release a game on steam you should provide your birth name to avoid people changing their name in order to not be on the blacklist anymore. I'm serious about this. once someone is on the list of betrayers they need to release a free game that is fun, like many other developers do simply to get noticed. It doesn't need to be large it just needs to be fun. Yeti Hunter by Vlambeer is more fun than SpaceBase :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
With respect to kestrelpi, ananemoneinanonymity, j_c the first and et al,

Are you employees of Double Fine?

Are you getting paid by Double Fine to defend the company?

Are you authorized to speak on their behalf?

If the answer is in the negative, I would rather that you stop posting here, trying to pad your post count and giving answers that are not authorized by Double Fine.

Most of the posts here have been requests/demands for explanations or a show of displeasure.

If you are not currently a paid employee of Double Fine why would you even attempt to stand on their side representing them?

I personally am not pleased at all and am waiting for answers from Double Fine.

If you are happy with the situation why are you even on this thread?

What? What stupid notion is this? I have just as much right to tell my opinion about this than the ones who bash DF. And I'm not pleased about the turn of events, but DF didn't betray anybody. They didn't promise that they can implement every feature on the feature list. They specifically said that because of the limit of time and resources, they probably won't be able implement all of them. And if the game will be a polished even though not as ambitous as promised, I will be happy.

Damn, I spent 20 great hours with Banished, which was a great town management game. It had a solid core, intersting mechanics and nothing else. You could see what the game offers in a dozen hours, and it didn't provide anything new after that, because it had features missing. It was still a fun game, and it costs as much as Spacebase.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These forums are open to everyone and no one wants to stifle discussion. We only ask that you keep the "Guide to Decency" in mind, which among other things states:

So be nice on the forums. Let the DFAF be an oasis of niceness in a mean, mean world. We encourage lively debate, but please don’t be rude, insulting, or make personal attacks. Treat each other with respect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
With respect to kestrelpi, ananemoneinanonymity, j_c the first and et al,

Are you employees of Double Fine?

Are you getting paid by Double Fine to defend the company?

Are you authorized to speak on their behalf?

If the answer is in the negative, I would rather that you stop posting here, trying to pad your post count and giving answers that are not authorized by Double Fine.

Most of the posts here have been requests/demands for explanations or a show of displeasure.

If you are not currently a paid employee of Double Fine why would you even attempt to stand on their side representing them?

I personally am not pleased at all and am waiting for answers from Double Fine.

If you are happy with the situation why are you even on this thread?

Guess somebody hit the spot. Since there is no answer from the devs yet I assume that they are either working on it or they are just planning to say nothing and to not respond at all to let this drop under the table...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hum. I wonder why they keep the studio at a place that is that expensive. When I visited San Francisco I didn't think it looked that great there... but I haven't seen all of it... so... yeah
Having a game company in the San Francisco bay area is a double edged sword. On one hand, it's Silicon Valley, so it's great to have a game company there since you're right in the middle of everything and can easily make contacts and promote your game. On the other hand, because it is Silicon Valley, it's really expensive to run a company there.

This is not a dig a you Jenni, but any company that thinks it needs to operate from the most expensive place because all the big boys are there deserves to fail. We have the internet now, you don't need to be down the road from someone to tell them about your product and clearly there was a good community here. Seems to me like an ego thing, I suppose if you can spend money fast enough then you feel like one of the big boys, the problem with that is a lot of those larger companies are loosing customers everyday for the same reasons.

Anyway they fed us lies and bull@!*# on the forums, then tried to pass off pulling the plug as a great gift from them to the community, and now they have to be aware of everyone's feelings on it and STILL they don't communicate with us. Bunch of crooks, I honestly don't care what they come up with next I wont give them my money again.

I'm not going to let this whittle away my faith in other developers, but I will for sure think twice in future and do more research/wait for longer. There are loads of great EA developers out there, probably cos they're not trying to punch above their weight, lets go and support them where its appreciated and they make sure we know it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the DFA would be as funny as the Guide to Decency then it could have been a hell of a game.

Btw. some user mods are about to ruin what is cool about the DF forum. Don't turn it into another TTG forum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anyway they fed us lies and bull@!*# on the forums, then tried to pass off pulling the plug as a great gift from them to the community, and now they have to be aware of everyone's feelings on it and STILL they don't communicate with us. Bunch of crooks, I honestly don't care what they come up with next I wont give them my money again.

There's a difference between telling a lie telling the truth and having a situation change. Unless you know for absolute certain what the situation was here, I suggest avoiding presenting those kinds of assumptions as fact.

I would love to see more communication. A quick response to the community's reaction would definitely be a good idea. Any response is going to require thought and planning, though (having a dev come in and say stuff that the company isn't behind would only make the situation worse, right?). Getting grumpy that nobody has made any statements so soon after the announcement is probably premature - give it another week and then complain that there's no communication.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It likely would've been a better PR move to have something prepared about this when the news broke, than to allow the community to throw around all the information back and forth. But hopefully those interested will get a response sooner rather than later.

As I said earlier, while I did not back or purchase Space Base, this all reinforces my mindset that for anything that is not a complete finished and released game with reviews out -- I'll only throw monetary support into such projects if I think the experience of doing so will allow me to recoup any dollars I may have invested.

I backed Broken Age and Massive Chalice primarily for the experiential desire to follow those projects, and the money I've invested has been recouped in terms of the enjoyment I've reaped either through the Development Doc or through Team Streams, even if either game product doesn't totally meet my perfect expectations. I wasn't sure if Hack 'N' Slash and Space Base would be worthwhile from my own perspective of experiential enjoyment, so I held off on purchasing the early access. I'll continue to make these sorts of assessments likely as well.

But I can understand how those that did back can feel disappointed. Just a good reminder to always consider caution if you aren't sure you are going to recoup your enjoyment vis-à-vis your dollars input.

Smiles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if this was mentioned before (curse you short attention span), but how many video games haven't dropped some/a lot of features due to financial/time constraints? Most game developers tend to be very closed doors regarding development, so fans don't know what was dropped. Just because the DF devs are more open about what they would like to put in the game, but then decided later that they can't get it in doesn't mean the "pulled the plug". From what it sounds like, they are honestly trying to make this a "real" game before 1.0; the two crucial bits IMO are killing as many bugs as possible and adding the tutorial.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You're all still getting a game

We are? Does all it take to constitute a valid finished product a window that launches and being able to click on things? There are no objectives. Not a single system in the game works in a nearly flawless state. There is nothing to do besides construct a layout and watch as various bugs kill your base. How many updates did we go through and something as basic as powering rooms still doesn't function correctly? Research is completely broken. Personalities don't matter. That's a full game? I disagree.

We had months between updates with zero information released and when something came out, it consisted of something a few people could do in a week and was still broken to all hell requiring several hotfixes each time just to keep the application from crashing and burning. I hope whatever project at Double Fine we were actually funding instead of this benefits from the money. It sure wasn't used here.

I purchased into this when I read the activity on the game's website and planned features for the future. I purchased assuming we had a team dedicated to actually implementing the features they planned and one that had the competence to do so. I was wrong on both counts. I sure am glad you guys posted those cutesy reactor sabotage stories instead of telling us with the most basic effort what was going on with the game and how you were killing it very soon. Thanks for that. At least it was prophetic in that the developers were the ones with the wrench breaking the reactor all along. But hey, on good days it powers some lights and we didn't all die of radiation poisoning, so be happy, we got a finished product.

One can hide behind excuses about 'early access' or whatever other clause they think means they delivered what was expected, but the customers and the product we have in our hands disagrees. This was a colossal mismanagement of time and money and those responsible should be embarrassed they were associated with this trainwreck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not sure if this was mentioned before (curse you short attention span), but how many video games haven't dropped some/a lot of features due to financial/time constraints? Most game developers tend to be very closed doors regarding development, so fans don't know what was dropped. Just because the DF devs are more open about what they would like to put in the game, but then decided later that they can't get it in doesn't mean the "pulled the plug". From what it sounds like, they are honestly trying to make this a "real" game before 1.0; the two crucial bits IMO are killing as many bugs as possible and adding the tutorial.

Ideas gets dropped on all projects I'm sure. It's a healthy process when developing something.

To be fair we have not been promised all things on the dev plan and can not demand they get implemented.

It's not about that in this case but a game feeling incomplete in its current stage being rushed from a development stage to finished in 5 weeks (counting oct 31). It's also about lack of communication during the last couple of months towards fans & customers backing this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's the nature of Early Access though. You're not buying a complete game. By paying for the product early before development is done you accept the risk that the final product might not turn out to your liking. The Steam Early Access FAQ clearly states:
Its up to the developer to determine when they are ready to 'release'. Some developers have a concrete deadline in mind, while others will get a better sense as the development of the game progresses. You should be aware that some teams will be unable to 'finish' their game. So you should only buy an Early Access game if you are excited about playing it in its current state.

The Spacebase team had a set of features they wanted in the game. Some of them didn't make it into the game, but as the blog post stated they reached a point in development where they feel like they're getting ready to release. Maybe it hasn't reached its "full potential", but Double Fine has to weigh development costs versus potential sales and isn't some AAA studio that can keep piling money onto the project indefinitely.

You're all still getting a game, even if it's not everything you wanted it to be. No broken promises, but perhaps a few broken dreams.

Well, dear Sir, witth all the respect, don't be supprised if I announce that I'm not going to pledge to any early access nor any sort of preorder from Double Fine any more from now on. I lost my confidence and beviele in the compapany.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
With respect to kestrelpi, ananemoneinanonymity, j_c the first and et al,

Are you employees of Double Fine?

Are you getting paid by Double Fine to defend the company?

Are you authorized to speak on their behalf?

If the answer is in the negative, I would rather that you stop posting here, trying to pad your post count and giving answers that are not authorized by Double Fine.

Most of the posts here have been requests/demands for explanations or a show of displeasure.

If you are not currently a paid employee of Double Fine why would you even attempt to stand on their side representing them?

I personally am not pleased at all and am waiting for answers from Double Fine.

If you are happy with the situation why are you even on this thread?

Yeah, no, I'm not going to shut up just because you want to. I don't need to 'pad my post count,' I've been posting here for years, in many of the subforums. What I've posted here is the tiniest drop in a lot of posting... what even is the point you're trying to make.

As for why I would make points, I don't get why I'm not allowed to have an opinion on this too?

As for why I would attempt to 'represent them' firstly, I never said or even implied my views were representative of Double Fine's, that's your invention.

That said, I have, in past situations, been given reason to believe that DF appreciate my input. Not that this even matters, because I'm just giving my opinions.

If you can't handle that, then I don't even know, are you new at the Internet?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@jeffsceu: Why would I need Double Fine's authority to defend them? Heck, most of the time I'm not even posting opinions, just corrections of falsehoods.

We're not the extended arms of DF's PR, though we may be perceived as Double Fine's defense brigade. I can't do anything about perception, but you're not the one to tell anyone here what we can or can't do.

I'm not letting obvious nonsense stand just because people are upset.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that Double Fine probably learned valuable lessons about using Early Access, and what that can do to sales and development, throughout this process. I think it's important to remember that they are trying out relatively new business models, and they are trying them with absolutely the best of intentions, part of those intentions being keeping their employee's jobs intact. These attempts have not all seemed to work out, but I think we can be sure that they are looking at what went wrong, and if they ever do another Early Access, they will be better prepared to deal with the pitfalls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So to you fine people that are writing in defense of Double Fine,

you are basically saying you are happy with the situation and Double Fine has done nothing wrong,

that your money is worth more than mine,

that I can not complain as in YOUR personal view everything is fine and dandy.

Thanks for telling me how much my money is worth to Double Fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Early access can work just fine.

But the problem here is that there is almost zero gameplay in the game atm. I think honestly they released it too early.

Between the lack of gameplay beyond 30min and the bugs, thats the huge problem, everyone i ask, and why equally people are holding out not buying it yet or not playing.

Rooms needs 5-10 times more objects.

We need 10-20 more rooms.

Much deeper better research.

Better pirate / attack system with scaling difficulty.

Equally good defences and emergency systems.

Way to teach other people new skills.

Giving room more purpose, actually seeing people spending time in there, like say security forces dont have a room.

Lack of litter, everything is to neat and clean.

Janitors.

Random citizens / aliens just coming aboard your base, setting up shops in the hallways, trading and making a living.

I mean thats just the bare bones stuff, i could probably list another 100 things.

The shell of the game is here, but a game there is not. Even a one man Rim world project had more gameplay in its first release.

I just dont understand, how it could have taken so long to add to little to the game, saleries side.

There just seems to be a huge disparity between money, developers, time worked on game, and whats in it.

Its feels like the developers are actually only working on space base like the last few hours of the day at double fine. If it were 8 hours each day 6 days a week. i couldn have taken this long.

Those indie guys arent miracle workers, and there are only 24 hours in each day and yet they have some how surpased this. Even prison architech and thats only 2 guy working on that.

Im just generally confused. But hopefully we will get some honest response. I prefer that, we ran out of money, lack of focus, not good enough leadership. i can accept that. we will learn and make mistakes and try stuff we arent suited for.

If memory serves the first version we could buy was october was it, 2013, that means its been an entire year almost. i just dont understand how an entire years work is what we have atm. 8 hours each day, since its expensive to live in SF area, i imagine they work 6 days a week, thats fairly normal to make ends meat. so thats 48 hours each week.

Sure there is a lot of stuff in the game, but none of it, is refined in any shape or form, none of it. Its all half implemented. I just dont see how anyone can argue against this if you played it.

It makes me sad. because this game cannot possible fail to make a profit in the long run, if doublefine would accept some current loss, and invest 1 million dollars in this and developer it over the next 2 years. Once this is done you actually have a sandbox game with modding support , that would continue to evolve and sell in the long run. You gotta lose money to earn money, and cutting loses and shutting down, just because oh now all the money is gone, that doesnt make sense.

Im sure they have hoped this would have gone quiet, because of the low activity level, but as evident now, a lot of people actually care for this game, and this is gonna make a huge dent in Double Fines reputation. i wonder if they are prepared to take that.

When games like Prison Architech and Rimworld can make buckets loads, and i do mean bucket loads of money, and yet this fails to do something. It just seems like bad management, bad communication, overall low engagement in the product. all the criteria for success was there. This game has more experieced developers, is backed by a big company, looks better, and yet the other 2 games have run circles around this.

angry no? but very very VERY disappointed i sure am.

I hope they come out with some clear statement soon, before we gotta get total biscuit to do a video on this, that then gets 1-2million views, i mean that will do damage to the reputation no ?. he has already writen a lenghty post about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's fair to be disappointed. I'm guessing Double Fine themselves are disappointed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I honestly don't know what's going on at DF. It seems like somewhere along the way there is SERIOUS mismanagement of funds and resource distribution. They live up to very few of their promises, and often times simply don't live up to them at all. A 'monthly' documentary for the Broken Age game for instance, what happened to that ? What happened to actually releasing that game ? Almost a year goes by and we STILL don't have the 2nd part of that. Now they pull the plug on DF-9. What's next ? I'm surprised publishers trust them enough to give them funding at all anymore. Maybe you guys aren't angry, but I am, I feel like they are misleading and screwing over the very people who support their games. On top of being angry I'm also sad, sad that a company with so much potential, amazing programmers, artists, and great ideas is managed so badly.

Well, at least Massive Chalice is shaping up to be a good game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All this hassle convinced me to go buy the game, though my game budget was small this month. Gotta see for myself. My tastes in games have changed in recent years and the highly charged negativity in "gamer culture", especially against indies recently, is just something that I can't subscribe to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I honestly don't know what's going on at DF. It seems like somewhere along the way there is SERIOUS mismanagement of funds and resource distribution. They live up to very few of their promises, and often times simply don't live up to them at all. A 'monthly' documentary for the Broken Age game for instance, what happened to that ? What happened to actually releasing that game ? Almost a year goes by and we STILL don't have the 2nd part of that. Now they pull the plug on DF-9. What's next ? I'm surprised publishers trust them enough to give them funding at all anymore. Maybe you guys aren't angry, but I am, I feel like they are misleading and screwing over the very people who support their games. On top of being angry I'm also sad, sad that a company with so much potential, amazing programmers, artists, and great ideas is managed so badly.

Well, at least Massive Chalice is shaping up to be a good game.

I don't think that's fair. Yes, Broken Age's development has gone much longer than expected, but they are still releasing the game, and we've gotten much more from the documentary than I think anyone expected that we would. I would say that the way Spacebase turned out is really the first time that a game demonstrably turned south on them, and I'm sure they will learn from this experience.

In my mind, hiccups in development do not indicate, in any way, a breaking of faith by the developer, so I don't understand anyone feeling betrayed where Broken Age is concerned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After this kind of announcement, I don't have the same kind of faith that I used to. Who's to say they won't cut Broken Age short ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I imagine they are to say. I don't think they will, but I suppose it's possible. However, I don't think we should penalize them for things that haven't happened yet. I'm thinking that they expected Early Access sales of the game to be better, and they ran out of funds to produce the game. I doubt they are happy about this, and I would be surprised if we saw them use this model again any time in the near future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Double posting is bad, so I won't make a habit of it, but I wanted to add this:

Running a small business is extremely hard, and you often have to make decisions that are the polar opposite of what you want to do. If they continuously used a business model that ended in them not fulfilling the promises that they made, that would be an issue. But if they see what the issues are, learn from them, and adapt to them to better serve their customers in the future, well, that's how a good, conscientious company responds to its failings. Failures happen. What's important is whether or not they care that their customers are dissatisfied, and whether they are able to do better in the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So to you fine people that are writing in defense of Double Fine,

you are basically saying you are happy with the situation and Double Fine has done nothing wrong,

that your money is worth more than mine,

that I can not complain as in YOUR personal view everything is fine and dandy.

Thanks for telling me how much my money is worth to Double Fine.

What is this? I don't even.... How can you make up so much BS with a straight face? You were the one who said that we can not tell our opinions about this case, and we should leave the forum if we defend DF. And nobody from us said that we are happy with this. We are just not bringing the torches and pitchforkes, and we will have fun with Spacebase as it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
well, that's how a good, conscientious company responds to its failings. Failures happen. What's important is whether or not they care that their customers are dissatisfied, and whether they are able to do better in the future.

Considering they made the decision to dump the game out the door without saying a word to their customers beforehand, the answer to whether they're a good, conscientious company becomes rather apparent. It's cute to keep defending them as downtrodden laborers who really tried their best, but it doesn't mesh with the (lack of) results shown month after month.

As to whether they care their customers are dissatisfied, to put it mildly, look at thunderous amount of official comment addressing this trainwreck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's hard to know how to respond to this problem from the vantage point of a small business owner. It can seem very cut and dry from a consumer stand point. I paid x, expecting y, getting z, instead. I'm not saying that you are wrong to be frustrated, or displeased with the end result of this game. They made a decision, a decision that I'm sure they didn't want to make, but at the end of the day, you, and the other people that bought the game, didn't get the game that you expected. That doesn't mean that it was malicious, though. And it doesn't mean that they aren't reviewing the situation from every angle to make sure it doesn't happen again. It appears that this project failed, and the fault may lie with them, sure, and you are entitled to be upset about that, but most companies who have never had a major success experience a failure like this, sometimes worse, and are able to bounce back from them, having learned valuable lessons. The only point that I'm making is that failure is not indicative of lack of effort, or of conscientiousness, and it doesn't mean that future projects will suffer the same fate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm very disappointed to see the project being abandoned (my opinion). Even in alpha I found it incredibly addictive and could see a lot of potential or Double Fine to expand on what I see as the basic bones of the game which we currently have.

However I was fully aware of what I was getting into with an Early Access game. Development could be slow, features could be cut, bugs would be rife, and the eventual result would be a huge question mark. Honestly I also felt there was a strong chance that the game would never be finished, and be abandoned. I accepted that risk - and am still glad that I did.

If this was a case of 'sorry, the project is taking too much time' or 'we no longer feel the game will be profitable' I would have been disappointed, but I'd accept it. What I do take issue with is the labelling of the game as 'finished'. The release announcement is sudden and unexpected and I feel the current features do not constitute a full game, and have not been through the full development process. If I were someone buying the 'finished' game, I would feel extremely disappointed and cheated by what feels like a last-ditch attempt to ring a little more cash out of the game.

A little honesty would have preserved DFs reputation in my eyes. As it is, I don't think I'd trust this developer again - not because of the Early Access issues, but because I feel as if I couldn't trust anything they release as being 'finished' :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...