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jasondesante

lets talk about moderators

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since theyre deleting posts moving them around making conversations impossible to follow

telling people to keep the conversation to this thread, and the thread is closed.

this is absolutely ridiculous

we are complaining about the seeming incompetence of Double Fine developing SpaceBase and the moderators (jenni) going on a power trip deleting posts telling people not to talk about the moderators

how about just stop being so crazy and stop going on a power trip.

you're going to consider doing something to this thread and if you do it will only make things worse and worse.

how about just leave this thread alone and then people will stop complaining about moderators going on a power trip

stop going on a power trip and we'll stop complaining about you going on a power trip

PLEASE

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I never said don't talk about moderators, I just said don't do it in topics that don't have anything to do with that subject. As I said, we're not deleting anything, we're just merging, moving, and sometimes locking topics to make the conversation about 1.0 all happen in one place so that it's easier for everyone to follow. We don't stifle conversation, but we definitely want to make sure that it's easy for everyone to follow along with.

In the future, if you have a problem with me personally, please PM me rather than taking it to the main forum (and please keep it civil in PMs as well). The most important part of the Guide to Decency is to be nice. Please don't insult anyone, including moderators and staff, and please keep the arguments off of the forum.

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Moving posts to locked topics and demanding others follow rules you do not choose to is rather stifling.

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No posts have been deleted as far as I'm aware. Only threads merged into one so that discussion doesn't get fragmented and we have a hundred threads all saying the same thing.

Jenni is not on a power trip. She can't close threads, only I or other admins can do that. I closed threads that have had repeating information or have been off topic for the forum. Technically this thread is also off topic, as this is a forum about spacebase, not about our volunteer moderators. I'll leave it open and here for a bit, but eventually it will be moved to a more appropriate forum.

My request for you: Remember that the moderators and the rest of us are human. None of the moderators were a part of the spacebase decision. Please do not take their enforcement of the forum rules and attempt to keep relevant discussion on topic as censorship.

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merging threads so replies that weren't quoted and just the next post below are now on a separate page and separated by a bunch of other posts....that makes it harder not easier to follow the conversation.

when someone tells you that and you don't listen and instead delete the post yeah things get a little difficult. I'm not insulting you but you're doing nothing to make anyone happier that's for sure. Criticism isn't an argument either.

If people aren't willing to listen or communicate normally and instead are doing whatever they want, things become difficult. Please I'm begging you stop making things extra difficult for everyone because it is only making it harder for people who don't have moderator status to post here.

Abusing your moderator abilities is wrong.

doing something that makes no sense and having a confusing pointless rationalization to back it up makes people confused, it doesn't justify what you did.

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when someone tells you that and you don't listen and instead delete the post yeah things get a little difficult.
As Justin said, none of the posts were deleted, they were just moved, merged, or locked. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, as long as they remain civil. Conversation is never stifled. The threads are just merged or moved because it's easier to follow discussion when the same topic is being discussed in one place rather than happening in several places at once.

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merging threads so replies that weren't quoted and just the next post below are now on a separate page and separated by a bunch of other posts....that makes it harder not easier to follow the conversation.

when someone tells you that and you don't listen and instead delete the post yeah things get a little difficult. I'm not insulting you but you're doing nothing to make anyone happier that's for sure. Criticism isn't an argument either.

If people aren't willing to listen or communicate normally and instead are doing whatever they want, things become difficult. Please I'm begging you stop making things extra difficult for everyone because it is only making it harder for people who don't have moderator status to post here.

Abusing your moderator abilities is wrong.

doing something that makes no sense and having a confusing pointless rationalization to back it up makes people confused, it doesn't justify what you did.

since jenni wants it in a seperat ethread, I have create done, also, jenni

Be nice. Double Fine is a nice company. We only hire nice people. We try to make nice games. And I think we have the nicest fans anywhere. So be nice on the forums. Let the DFAF be an oasis of niceness in a mean, mean world. We encourage lively debate, but please don’t be rude, insulting, or make personal attacks. Treat each other with respect. We reserve the right to delete any malicious posts, or to just re-edit them to make the original author look like a horrible person.

Don’t post stupid junk. For instance: Short, one word, meaningless posts. Multiple, repeated posts. Posts that say nothing. Posts that mean nothing. Posts that no one wants to read. Posts that say, “First post!” Irrelevant posts. Inappropriate posts. We know why you are doing this—You want to artificially bump up your post count and achieve new, incredibly-valuable and hilarious post count rankings. To combat this, we have made sure that the forum post count rankings are funniest at the lower ranks, and they get progressively less funny as you rank up. At the very top, they’re super boring. I think we grabbed the last five from the titles of old Perry Como albums. Do you really want your rank to be, “Como’s Golden?” No. So don’t spam.

Don’t post copyrighted material. If someone comes after Double Fine for money because you put up copyrighted material on our beautiful and pristine forums, then we won’t just give them your personal info, we will drive them to your house and carry them up to your door. And in case you try to run, we will let their bloodhounds sniff that sweater you left at our house once. We will not protect any thieves of intellectual property, no matter how dashing, or rugged, or exciting they are.

Do not Leak, or Promote Leakage. Our publishing contract states that the publisher controls the PR on our game. That means they, not Double Fine, decide what information is shared, and what is not. Posting a leak (i.e. Any unnannounced content about the game) on our forums, or even promoting someone else’s leak, puts us in violation of our publishing contract and could get us in big trouble. Please do not do that. We don’t like trouble, and we will ban any user who violates this rule. And also, leaking stuff about the game, or even drawing the public’s attention to a leak, is kind of a jerky move that only hurts the game makers. It lessons our ability to secure exclusives (like magazine covers) and makes it harder to get big news stories about our game in the press. The press isn’t interested in “old news.” So please don’t originate or promote leaks, even outside this forum!

Do not advertise. Baby Lovers care only about one thing: 2hb. They don’t want to hear about your pyramid scheme, hair tonic, or some other, inferior website. Not in the Action Forums, nor in private messages to members.

Be not profane. Keep your nastiness to a minimum. Do not post dirty pictures. Don’t be inordinately offensive. Why? Because many of us like to read the forums at the office, instead of doing the jobs we are paid to do. So the content on the forums must be safe for work. They must not get me in trouble with my boss, who is a jerk. Why do you want to get me fired? Where, then, would you get your information? What is so exciting about naked humans anyway?

Stay on topic. We would like these forums to be of value to everybody. So we would like all threads to clearly describe their topic in their subject line, and we would love for threads to actually contain a discussion of the topic stated in said subject line, and not something else. Something that nobody cares about. If you take a thread off topic you are effectively driving it off the road and into a tar pit where it will die. No thread deserves to die just because you have ADD and can’t focus. And by “you,” I of course do not mean YOU, the fine forum reader. I’m talking about those other people. The jerks. The thread killers.

Tolerate all humans. If you post anything that is racist, sexist, or homophobic, the forums will come alive and bite you on the face. It will hold on tight, no matter how much you scream, and not let go until you tolerate all humanity and promise to change your ways. Then we will let go, but by then it will have laid eggs in your sinus cavities, and if you ever post anything like that again the eggs will hatch, and you will sneeze earwigs for years.

Discuss only activities that are legal. If you talk about illegal drugs, how to pirate software, or anything else that violates the laws of cows or man, you will be instantly BANNED across all space, time, and dimension. Nobody will like you, and you will probably die alone. And high.

Troll not. Do not make controversial or contrary posts just to provoke an angry response on a thread. And if any of you nice Baby Lovers see someone trolling, please just ignore them. Similarly, do not Flamebait. And while you’re at it, don’t even try to Angerfinger, Poutpoke, or Ragegoose. And if you don’t know real forum terms, do not make them up.

Do not discuss Europa. Please avoid discussion of the sixth moon of Jupiter, Europa.

Buy yo-yos. Please buy our fine yo-yos.

Please do not do anything that we do not like, even if we aren’t sure yet what that is. If you invent some new way of diminishing the Pleasure and Value™ of these forums, a brand-new way that we haven’t even thought of yet, even if we haven’t listed it here, we reserve the right to ban you, mock you, or do anything to you that we think of, to you.

Make these forums awesome. As we said before, these forums are yours. We want to have a place where the growing community of Baby Lovers can entertain and express itself. We want to encourage its expansion, and eventual world-domination. The Double Fine Action Forums are like an empty vessel, defined by that with which you fill it. They can be a sturdy goblet, a fine chalice, a sticky sippy-cup, a trash can, a spittoon, or a bedpan. The choice is yours.

I do not see anyone breaking these rules, by complaining about moderators, NO WHERE in that thread does it say "thou shall not complain about moderators abusing their powers"

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I never said don't talk about moderators, I just said don't do it in topics that don't have anything to do with that subject. As I said, we're not deleting anything, we're just merging, moving, and sometimes locking topics to make the conversation about 1.0 all happen in one place so that it's easier for everyone to follow. We don't stifle conversation, but we definitely want to make sure that it's easy for everyone to follow along with.

You have deleted at least 2 posts by the OP in the 1.0 thread where he stated that the moving/merging was putting posts out of context and posts are getting lost.

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merging threads so replies that weren't quoted and just the next post below are now on a separate page and separated by a bunch of other posts....that makes it harder not easier to follow the conversation.

Yes, this does make it difficult, but it's similar if the forum was much faster moving than it is. It's also a terchnical limitation for the forum as it sorts posts within a thread by time rather than by conversation.

when someone tells you that and you don't listen and instead delete the post yeah things get a little difficult. I'm not insulting you but you're doing nothing to make anyone happier that's for sure. Criticism isn't an argument either.

Nothing has been deleted. Moderators do not have that ability.

If people aren't willing to listen or communicate normally and instead are doing whatever they want, things become difficult.

Please I'm begging you stop making things extra difficult for everyone because it is only making it harder for people who don't have moderator status to post here.

Abusing your moderator abilities is wrong.

doing something that makes no sense and having a confusing pointless rationalization to back it up makes people confused, it doesn't justify what you did.

There has been some confusion with the results of moderator action. I believe that they have made the right choices given hard and stressful circumstances, so I would request you put forth the same leniency towards the moderators that you're asking of them. Yes, merged threads can be difficult to read, but you're capable and I believe able to ride through it to convey the point you want to make.

I do not see anyone breaking these rules, by complaining about moderators, NO WHERE in that thread does it say "thou shall not complain about moderators abusing their powers"

Apolgies if I wasn't clear. Raising issues with moderators is fine. But it is not a spacebase related issue, even if a discussion about spacebase is what triggered. That's what I was referencing about moving the thread.

You have deleted at least 2 posts by the OP in the 1.0 thread where he stated that the moving/merging was putting posts out of context and posts are getting lost.

No she hasn't. Moderators do not have that ability. Only admins, and I haven't deleted any posts. I don't believe any other admins have either, though I'll check.

Justin, would you care to explain why moderators such as Jenni are being allowed to copy-paste their opinions into multiple threads but if a member creates a new topic based on a post they made it is closed?

For example: http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/14939/

I don't think that is an example of what you stated. That is an example of someone raising a point which would be more useful in the primary thread so that it can be integrated and responded to by the majority of people talking about the issue.

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Justin, would you care to explain why moderators such as Jenni are being allowed to copy-paste their opinions into multiple threads but if a member creates a new topic based on a post they made it is closed?

You said that before, but it's not true. My post was similar, but it's not a direct copy and paste.

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http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/14641/P200/

They are not going to be pulling the plug. They are planning on polishing it up to the point where they feel it’s worthy to be a commercial product. This is the same thing as a retail game that has gone from alpha to gold, where a developer is confident that the game has reached a point where it is now ready to ship. They aren’t going to be abandoning it either, as they stated that they will continue to offer support for it and they will still release bug fixes for it even after 1.0.

http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/14956/

They aren’t pulling the plug. They’re going to polish it up to the point where they feel it’s worthy to be a commercial product. It’s the equivalent of a retail game going from alpha to gold, where the developer feels that the game has reached a point where it is now ready to ship. They aren’t abandoning it either, as they’ve said that they’ll continue to offer support for it and they’ll still have bug fix releases even after 1.0.

If a regular poster did this, it would be merged off into oblivion.

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http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/14641/P200/

They are not going to be pulling the plug. They are planning on polishing it up to the point where they feel it’s worthy to be a commercial product. This is the same thing as a retail game that has gone from alpha to gold, where a developer is confident that the game has reached a point where it is now ready to ship. They aren’t going to be abandoning it either, as they stated that they will continue to offer support for it and they will still release bug fixes for it even after 1.0.

http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/14956/

They aren’t pulling the plug. They’re going to polish it up to the point where they feel it’s worthy to be a commercial product. It’s the equivalent of a retail game going from alpha to gold, where the developer feels that the game has reached a point where it is now ready to ship. They aren’t abandoning it either, as they’ve said that they’ll continue to offer support for it and they’ll still have bug fix releases even after 1.0.

If a regular poster did this, it would be merged off into oblivion.

I explained the reason I did that, it was because a Double Fine staff member created a thread. I would normally merge the threads together, but since it was by the person who created the game, it definitely deserved it's own thread. The reason we merge is normally to prevent things like this, but in this case it's a special situation since the other thread is official. If a regular user posted a similar thing in that thread, as I had, I also wouldn't merge it, as, like I said, that thread is a special case. Because it's an official thread, I'm not merging anything out of that thread that's related to the topic. The only thing I'll merge out of that is off-topic posts like people complaining about moderators or people insulting each other.

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The only reason she has had to give her opinion multiple times is because people keep making multiple threads. This isn't something to be upset about. We know you're angry about the game, and you have the right to express that here. She isn't your enemy.

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thats some amazing human robot synthesis if that wasn't copy paste. bravo

binary solo

000100100010010011011011101010101011

flight of the conchords reference

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The only reason she has had to give her opinion multiple times is because people keep making multiple threads. This isn't something to be upset about. We know you're angry about the game, and you have the right to express that here. She isn't your enemy.

he is not the only one that is upset, there were many others.. however their threads are impossible to find now without a huge amount of hassel now that that they have been "merged" into a amalgamation of unreadable disorderlyness, and there opinions are now basically meaningless.

You see the issue here, right?

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Not really. Post in the appropriate thread and there is no issue. This is basic forum usage here.

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its funny because if they didnt do anything people wouldnt have been upset

even funnier if they listened the first time it could have been fixed but they went ahead and kept doing it and now look, people are upset.

we dont even need to complain about the whole 1.0 release disaster, we could just harp on how incompetent certain moderators seem to be in how they go directly against what normal forum posters are asking, and then seem shocked when those people get more upset.

stop actin a fool and just let us talk

exactly what the first post was all about

just leave things alone if people specifically request it, especially if they describe to you the reason why they want things a certain way, especially when it is something as simple as being able to read a conversation.

we've said multiple times merging threads makes the conversations impossible to read and the response instead has been "it actually makes things look like there was a lot of activity in the forum"

ROFL yeah I know what you mean it looks like people were all talking in the same forum thread but in reality they weren't

it makes a conversation that is impossible to follow, but you insist it isn't impossible to follow.

Think about that for a second, I participated in the conversation and I'm saying that now I can't understand the conversation I participated in, but this other genius over here who is so smart they know more about my experiences than I do (so they're basically God), they understand everything and insist it doesn't make things more difficult.

Think about the ridiculous lack of caring about the other person's point of view when someone is willing to say that to someone else. They seriously don't care about anything that I said and weren't even willing to consider my point of view.

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I'm not angry. I'm asking for equal treatment and for moderators to not plainly lie about their actions. That wasn't copy-pasted? How many people believe that?

But setting that aside, let's get to that excuse that people just created too many topics and that's why it needed to be posted again. Did you bother checking the links?

One is to LeBreton's post and the other is to the main thread that existed before that. How in the world is that an example of posters making too many topics on the same issue? Should LeBreton's OP be merged with the topic that existed before it? Remember, one topic per possible discussion point, right?

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Talk in the appropriate thread an no one will stop you. How you haven't gotten that yet is mind boggling.

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Talk in the appropriate thread an no one will stop you. How you haven't gotten that yet is mind boggling.

keep defending a completely pointless opinion, youre right so keep driving it home, don't bother to think of the other person's side and find the middle ground just keep saying the same thing and talking down to me for not accepting that one sliver of the truth which is partly the truth not the entire story. stop asking people to focus on one of the most pointless details of this story

we will definitely reach peace by repeating ourselves like this :D

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There is no middle ground. Act as if you've used a forum before, and stop mirroring threads. Problem solved. No matter how angry the solution may make you, it is still the solution.

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Talk in the appropriate thread an no one will stop you. How you haven't gotten that yet is mind boggling.

OANST, you seem to be unable to look at things from another persons viewpoint, are you a child because if so, that makes sense, because of brain development.

If you are not, then listen.

If you bought a game, and have been supporting it since release, ( you ARE A LOYAL CUSTOMER)

Then you saw that something you didnt like was happening.

and you posted your opinion on the forums.

Then, a day later you come back, and your opinion has just up and disappeared, would you not feel betrayed.

You then find out it has been merged into a super thread, ok, cool.

Then you try to find your post and cant because it is basically unreadable.

Then you realize, no one will really see your opinion becase the thread is almost completely unreadable.

Then you get upset, because, yet again, you feel betrayed.

Just go away, and let those who are upset., tell people that they are upset.

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There is no reason to attack mods. If you can prove they tried censoring that is different. It is fair to debate them logically and respectfully.

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There is no middle ground. Act as if you've used a forum before, and stop mirroring threads. Problem solved. No matter how angry the solution may make you, it is still the solution.

im sorry if you feel i'm not smart enough to use a forum or that you think i haven't used a forum before

there were like 5 or 6 threads

the natural reaction would have been people to gather in the largest thread there was no point to merge the other few threads to make them impossible to read and scrunched together in the middle of that other larger thread. that makes no sense.

is the clutter on this forum so precious to you that you're willing to get mad at other forum members in defense of double fine's spacebase forum's neatness? that attached to this forum's visual layout, or the general philosophies of using a forum, that you actually want to argue like a child with me about this pointless little detail?

edit: gonna stop posting, this is sad, the only people defending double fine now seem to be insane or brain dead

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OANST, you seem to be unable to look at things from another persons viewpoint, are you a child because if so, that makes sense, because of brain development.
That's completely uncalled for. You are welcome to express your opinion, but please don't insult people. As the guide to decency states, please be nice. Thanks.

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omg Jenni read that guys posts he's being insulting to everyone. saying the person isn't able to understand someone else's point of view is accurate and not an insult.

Jenni please just stop posting here

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Jesus Christ, are we all this self centered that we can't take the idea that some words we wrote are slightly harder to find in a larger thread? Do you think your anger has been missed by Double Fine? Do you think your point hasn't been made? Or are you just furious that your post is no longer generating discussion all on its own because there are forty other people saying the exact same thing and now it isn't in your own thread and oh my god did I stop being the center of attention? Good god almighty, the heart palpitations are quite severe! How dare they deny me my voice?! I mean, they didn't, but how dare they make my voice the same volume as everyone else's!!?!

No. You sound like a child right now, and let the record state that I was patient with the children for a very long time.

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OANST, you seem to be unable to look at things from another persons viewpoint, are you a child because if so, that makes sense, because of brain development.
That's completely uncalled for. You are welcome to express your opinion, but please don't insult people. As the guide to decency states, please be nice. Thanks.

i did not mean to insult him, i was simply saying this:

As a human beings brain develops, they go through stages, the stage up until the age of 9/11 are not fully able to look at things from another persons perspective. I was simply saying , in laymans terms, that if he is a child, its totally normal for him to act this way, But if he isnt, his behavior is in fact uncalled for.

No insults. Just facts.

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