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jasondesante

So long, farewell

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PS: Every time I see the title of this thread, I think it says So long, falwell, and think it's some kind of thread celebrating/lamenting the death of Jerry Falwell.

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You're a man, and if you're a white man, you enjoy the highest form of privilege society has to offer. To compare your offense to a minority being subjected to someone's causal racism, THAT is the joke.

Firstly; I took offense at a sexist comment. How in Hades is that dissimilar to taking offense at a racist comment? Both are a form of prejudice. Unless you're suggesting that only black people are allowed to be offended by racism? If that's the case, then I don't even know where to start in correcting such a ludicrous point of view.

Secondly; I'm within "the highest form of privilege [that] society has to offer", am I? Oh, I'm sorry; I didn't realise that you already knew everything about me! Did you know that I suffer from severe mental health problems (depression, anxiety and social phobia)? Do you know that when leaving my flat, to so much as walk to the local shop, I have horrendous panic attacks; going through an ordeal, the likes of which you'll most likely never have to deal with? Did you know that currently, in Britain, where I reside, people with disabilities and on benefits are being ostracised, thanks to Government propaganda and scapegoating?

I've spent my whole life being treated as an abnormal freak; being bullied and laughed at. Don't you ever dare to tell me that I'm in the privileged sector of society because I just so happen to be white.

So you're implying that your comfort is more important than for a woman to be able to talk frankly in the company of her friends?

When I'm using public transport; yes. Yes, I do. Just as the comfort of my fellow passengers takes presidence over my individual urges and wants. If I feel like taking a piss right next to a fellow passenger, should I be allowed to do so? Is that passenger's comfort of greater importance than my need to take a slash? Of course it f**king is. If I feel the need to take a piss that badly, then I bloody well should be expected to go to the toilet and do so in privacy, out of sight of my fellow passengers. The exact same applies to a woman who feels a need to talk shite about 50% of the population. It's common courtesy. I'm not bemoaning her right to express herself, I'm simply saying that it's bloody rude of her to be so inconsiderate.

It's not like she directed it at you, and yet you took it personally.

She said "all men", so therefore it was directed at me, albeit in an indirect way.

You wanna talk about freedom of speech, but then you get mad because someone exercised it in a way you didn't like..

Sure, so next time I feel like ragging on a sector of society; I won't bother to think before I speak; I won't bother to check to see if any of the people I'm preparing to slag off, are sat within hearing range. I'll just say what I want, when I want and simply expect people to not be offended. Christ on stick, what a lovely society we would live in, if you had it your way. George Orwell's 1984 must have seemed to be an utopia to you.

As the old adage goes; if you can't beat them, join them. Okay then...

Hey! I feel like bad mouthing old people, so the next time I'm sat on a bus, I'm going to loudly proclaim that "old people are a nuisance and should just kill themselves to make way for the young", right when there's an old age pensioner sat next to me. The f**king stupid old bint better not be quietly offended about what I said and then later remark about it on the Internet, lest some ignoramus give her a piece of their mind.

Just a small correction, I wasn't directly critiquing your offense at what she said, but the fact that you think that based on that you have a clue about what she needs more than she does. That's ridiculous.

Yeah, look at me taking offense at sexism! I'm f**king ridiculous! Whoop Whoop Whoop!!!

But if they are strangers you're not familiar with, how do you know their opinions on feminism?

A fair point well made.

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Can of worms, here.

Briefly: white male privilege is real. It's a real thing in western society. It's not really something that's up for debate, just looking at things like crime stats and employment stats ought to be enough to clarify for anyone that while legally everyone is equal, society still disadvantages non-whites, non-males in various ways, by default.

...BUT...

They're not the only forms of privilege going around, and it IS presumptuous, I think to assume that someone is at the top of the privilege ladder merely on account of being white and male. It's a good start, but it doesn't take into account, for example, sexuality, gender identity where that differs from body parts (and without wading too deep into the gender discussion, saying that gender is different from sexual organs is different from saying that gender is 100% a social construct. I know some trans people who could point to some interesting studies about biological differences in trans people's brains that would account for the gender dysphoria some of them experience - either way, that dysphoria is real and not socially constructed), and an important one that was just brought up - mental and physical health, because people with mental/physical health problems are stigmatised and are often very misunderstood.

So, this stuff is important. It doesn't do to pretend that privilege isn't real, but also once you acknowledge it's real then one also has to acknowledge that it exists not just on two axis of race and gender.

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just looking at things like crime stats and employment stats

Just a quick note, poverty/living in impoverished areas has more to do with this than race. A large percentage of non-whites live in poor urban areas. That tends to skew those stats. Not saying there isn't white privilege, just saying crime and employment stats aren't really a great metric of that.

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Can of worms, here.

Briefly: white male privilege is real. It's a real thing in western society. It's not really something that's up for debate, just looking at things like crime stats and employment stats ought to be enough to clarify for anyone that while legally everyone is equal, society still disadvantages non-whites, non-males in various ways, by default.

*sigh*

...But I wasn't denying the existence of 'white male privilege'. I countered that argument by saying that I have all kinds of prejudice thrown at me on a weekly basis, due to my mental health issues. When I'm out and about, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that there's something abnormal about the way I walk and interact with people (not in a socially unaware kind of way - I'm just extremely nervous and suffer from panic attacks on a daily basis). I have people shouting abusive comments at me in the street and mocking me on a regular basis (at least once a week). I would take being a black female over having the condition I suffer from, any day of the week. So, yeah... I'll damn well compare what I go through in life with what a minority race has to put up with.

...people with mental/physical health problems are stigmatised and are often very misunderstood.

Precisely. I'm treated as a freak by far too many people. I would like to think that my interactions on this forum show that I'm an intelligent, thoughtful and kind person (not that I don't have my faults, personality wise). I know that those who give me half a chance (friends and family) know this to be the case. However, when seeing someone shaking with fear as they walk through town; a disturbing proportion of people respond with the attitude of "let's laugh at him and call him names" (or as has been the case, in extreme situations - "let's punch him"). I seriously get this s**t near enough all of the time. Therefore, I downright f**king despise the suggestion that I'm within the privileged sector of society. If Scarecrow hadn't been so presumptuous, then (she?) might not have equated white/male as automatically translating to being "privileged".

I'm also resentful for being left little recourse but to air my private issues on this forum, in order to defend my position.

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just looking at things like crime stats and employment stats

Just a quick note, poverty/living in impoverished areas has more to do with this than race. A large percentage of non-whites live in poor urban areas. That tends to skew those stats. Not saying there isn't white privilege, just saying crime and employment stats aren't really a great metric of that.

Ever wonder why a large percentage of non-whites still live in poor urban areas...? (Okay, less snarky answer: yes, it has to do with class as much as it has to do with race, but the two aren't independent of each other. There are, for example, statistics showing that an equally qualified black person applying for the same job is (on average) much less likely to get it. So their employment opportunities are lessened, and so many remain in those impoverished areas, keeping that cycle going even when efforts are made to improve, for example, education opportunities in those areas)

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Can of worms, here.

Briefly: white male privilege is real. It's a real thing in western society. It's not really something that's up for debate, just looking at things like crime stats and employment stats ought to be enough to clarify for anyone that while legally everyone is equal, society still disadvantages non-whites, non-males in various ways, by default.

*sigh*

...But I wasn't denying the existence of 'white male privilege'. I countered that argument by saying that I have all kinds of prejudice thrown at me on a weekly basis, due to my mental health issues. When I'm out and about, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that there's something abnormal about the way I walk and interact with people. I have people shouting abusive comments at me in the street and mocking me on a regular basis (at least once a week). I would take being a black female over having the condition I suffer from, any day of the week.

...people with mental/physical health problems are stigmatised and are often very misunderstood.

Precisely. I'm treated as a freak by far too many people. I would like to think that my interactions on this forum show that I'm an intelligent, thoughtful and kind person (not that I don't have my faults, personality wise). I know that those who give me half a chance (friends and family) know this to be the case. However, when seeing someone shaking with fear as they walk through town; a disturbing proportion of people respond with the attitude of "let's laugh at him and call him names" (or as has been the case, in extreme situations - "let's punch him"). I seriously get this s**t all the time. Therefore, I downright f**king despise the suggestion that I'm within the privileged sector of society. If Scarecrow wasn't such a presumptuous little twit, she might not have equated white/male as automatically equating to "privileged".

I also resent (her?) for leaving me little recourse but to air my private issues on this forum, in order to defend my position.

Quick note because I wasn't quite clear: I wasn't saying that you were denying the privilege, although I get why it might have seemed that way. I just wanted to make it clear where I stand on those matters before I waded into the next point. Sorry if it seemed from what I said that I thought you were denying it. I was just trying to be thorough in the point I was making.

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Quick note because I wasn't quite clear: I wasn't saying that you were denying the privilege, although I get why it might have seemed that way. I just wanted to make it clear where I stand on those matters before I waded into the next point. Sorry if it seemed from what I said that I thought you were denying it. I was just trying to be thorough in the point I was making.

Oops, sorry. I did take that the wrong way I'm afraid. My bad. I'm kinda on the defensive right now.

My apologies.

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I'm sorry I offended you St_Eddie, you're right, I don't know your whole situation, the prejudice you face for your health, or countless other variables in your life. It was not my intention to imply that I did, and I'm sorry that that's how I came across. However, you tried to compare a slight against your gender, which is privileged with that of a minority race that is not, and that was what I was criticizing, you're right though that I should not have jumped to conclusions.

Just as you should not jump to conclusions on why that girl said what she said. I know the sting of having the entire male population slandered because of one a**hole, it isn't a good feeling and it does offend. I'm not trying to say you don't have a right to your offense, but I am saying that despite how it made you feel, it wasn't really about you, and that that should actually make you feel a bit better, I know it helps me. It isn't fair to that woman to assume her attitude is her fault though, I very much doubt she went looking for a jerk to hurt her. We shouldn't blame her taste in men (or even assume she has a taste for them at all for that matter) but whatever piece of crap made her feel that way.

Again, sorry I offended you. I was overharsh in my initial reply and it put this whole discussion on bad footing. I hope we can come to an understanding.

Thank you so much for this thoughtful message. I really appreciate it, thank you. Please consider your apology more than accepted. Also, please understand that I am also sorry for snapping at you and for being overly harsh in my responses. My problems aren't your problems, so I'm very sorry for being too vitriol in my correspondence with you. Whilst I do stand by my opinion, there were much better (and less hostile) ways for me to put my point across. I do sincerely apologise for that.

I say that we consider it water under the bridge.

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ALL MEN ARE BASTARDS!

(except for Davies. He's cool)

Actually I am a bastard; a great big, bloody git of a bastard in actual fact but that doesn't mean that women should just assume. Get to know me, Ladies. Then and only then can you can call me a bastard.

For the record, I'm also a dweeb, a rotten s**t and a full-time c*nt. I can rustle up a fine falafel though, so I'm not all bad.

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ALL MEN ARE BASTARDS!

(except for Davies. He's cool)

Actually I am a bastard; a great big, bloody git of a bastard in actual fact but that doesn't mean that women should just assume. Get to know me, Ladies. Then and only then can you can call me a bastard.

For the record, I'm also a dweeb, a rotten s**t and a full-time c*nt. I can rustle up a fine falafel though, so I'm not all bad.

You also have good taste in adventure games (I miss your Sierra retrospective)!

p.s. It was fun to read this thread all at once and seeing how it turned from dissatisfaction with DF-9 to a discussion of gender and then to privilege in general :) I have a lot of conversations like this but it's nice to see the actual evidence of how a conversation morphs into something else.

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You also have good taste in adventure games (I miss your Sierra retrospective)!

Thank you :)

I'm sorry to report that the 'King's Quest' retrospective is on an hiatus. I'm too busy with fan-edits at the moment. Also, even once I'm done with those; I have to get my let's play of 'Flight of the Amazon Queen' finished first. Oh, I've already recorded a bunch of footage for a review of the cult film 'Basket Case', that's all set and ready to be edited. So all of those projects have taken a higher priority over my 'Sierra' videos I'm afraid. I'll get 'round to them eventually though.

I should probably concentrate on one creative project at a time really but I produce my best results when I'm passionate about the thing that I'm currently working on. Therefore, I'd imagine that I'll be resuming my 'Sierra' retrospective whenever I next play through the 'King's Quest' series (a year or so from now).

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REDACTED

Who the f**k goes around deleting their posts, replacing them with a single word, in a large font?! What are you, some kind of oddball? F**k me, you'd never catch me doing that!

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I made a post about how I think you and I have the same anxiety problems, and the medication I take to curb it, but then I got paranoid, and then I got angry after making the post.

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I made a post about how I think you and I have the same anxiety problems...

I've sent you a PM, Fawful; on the off-chance that you should you wish to discuss this further.

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Incase you didn't get the "joke", Secret Fawful:

http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/14253/

You put the word "Joke" in inverted commas? Come on now, in a world where the likes of Seth MacFarlane, Sarah Millican, Carlos Mencia and Brendan O'Carroll qualify as popular comedians, I think that my response to Fawful more than qualifies as an actual joke.

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lol, I'm sorry. You're right. It just wasn't very obvious, and it seemed SF didn't get it.

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Just going to add. Going to 1.0 from an alpha which doesn't work on linux is a real shit move.
1.0 will have “over a month’s worth of pure bug-fixing work”. How is it a bad move when it will likely fix the problems that you've been having on Linux?

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