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Will user development flow back into the game?

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Since sourcecode is released, I believe modders will take the game for a ride.

The first thing changed will be the Oxygen/Pressure system for sure, but we'll have to see what's happening until then.

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Question is, will there be a system that allows users changes to be rolled into point releases, or will they just be installable mods? Or will they be mods, but with no explicit mod management, just the game that can be hacked with the changed resources?

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@Darth. That seems a shame. Would Steam Workshop allow user mod to change the basic game?

If DF guys are making it public allowing some mods to be easily integrated would be a huge boon to the SBDF-9. Hopefully restart the development. If there is no easy way to merge the mods upstream... It's gonna be really hard to justify it.

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Right, now to play Devil's advocate -

The game at 1.0 is going to be eh... let's be kind and say "very rough around the edges". Even if it has Steam Workshop support, at what point does a dedicated mod team, and let's assume that in the best of all possible worlds that a mod team DOES decide that there's potential in DF-9 and picks up the ball where DoubleFine left off, at this point there's no license or agreement where the mod team takes a share of the profit. DoubleFine wins by virtue of volunteers "finishing" the game, as does IndieFund, and to a far lesser extent, the EA backers, but I don't see the real gain for the mod makers in this one. There's not a lot of support being offered beyond DF-9 going "Here's the LUA scripts, have fun!".

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Right, now to play Devil's advocate -

The game at 1.0 is going to be eh... let's be kind and say "very rough around the edges". Even if it has Steam Workshop support, at what point does a dedicated mod team, and let's assume that in the best of all possible worlds that a mod team DOES decide that there's potential in DF-9 and picks up the ball where DoubleFine left off, at this point there's no license or agreement where the mod team takes a share of the profit. DoubleFine wins by virtue of volunteers "finishing" the game, as does IndieFund, and to a far lesser extent, the EA backers, but I don't see the real gain for the mod makers in this one. There's not a lot of support being offered beyond DF-9 going "Here's the LUA scripts, have fun!".

Was a time when people would mod stuff just for laughs or for learning. Is that not the case any more? Not being facetious, but back when I was interested in modding, motivations were to make something cool without having to make a whole engine/game of my own first.

Well, anyway, I'm just speculating but it wouldn't entirely surprise me if JP and some of the rest of the devs that worked on this game used some of their spare time to make mods for it. I genuinely think they care about the project, and I know that being the case I'd want to do something with it, rather than leave it behind.

Regardless of whether the team is involved, I'd be interested in seeing what happens, mod-wise.

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Right, now to play Devil's advocate -

The game at 1.0 is going to be eh... let's be kind and say "very rough around the edges". Even if it has Steam Workshop support, at what point does a dedicated mod team, and let's assume that in the best of all possible worlds that a mod team DOES decide that there's potential in DF-9 and picks up the ball where DoubleFine left off, at this point there's no license or agreement where the mod team takes a share of the profit. DoubleFine wins by virtue of volunteers "finishing" the game, as does IndieFund, and to a far lesser extent, the EA backers, but I don't see the real gain for the mod makers in this one. There's not a lot of support being offered beyond DF-9 going "Here's the LUA scripts, have fun!".

Was a time when people would mod stuff just for laughs or for learning. Is that not the case any more? Not being facetious, but back when I was interested in modding, motivations were to make something cool without having to make a whole engine/game of my own first.

Well, anyway, I'm just speculating but it wouldn't entirely surprise me if JP and some of the rest of the devs that worked on this game used some of their spare time to make mods for it. I genuinely think they care about the project, and I know that being the case I'd want to do something with it, rather than leave it behind.

Regardless of whether the team is involved, I'd be interested in seeing what happens, mod-wise.

Broadly this happens with, and I make this point clear - Supported projects. E.g. ones where mod support has been built in from the get go and where the entire premise is that the developer has provided the community with the tools to create the kind of wild and wacky ideas that come with it. It's about the tone and the pitch of the message.

Example of a good tone and pitch : Skyrim - Extensive in game mod support (in fact, so extensive that people's mod lists now can run to the hundreds with load orders being handled by out of game programs and memory managers being custom coded to prevent the poor Skyrim client from suffering a heart attack) which permits not only game manipulation, but has been given extensive blessing *by the developers* for just about every aspect to be fiddled with and messed about. They made a clear license as to what could, and couldn't be done, and set up the house rules for modding, everyone knew where they stood, and the community grew and flourished.

The problem with DF-9 is that effectively, beyond 1.0, the dev team have pretty much said "We're fixing some bugs, but that's it", the fact they're opening the LUA is -exclusively- because they've been forced to move to 1.0 so quickly and it's a hand wave to do some damage control in the hope someone might actually pick up where they left off. If you're going to provide mod support you have to do it in much the same way games like Starpoint Gemini 2, Skyrim, or other games approach it. You start early, you involve and embrace the enthusiasts -right away-, you give them documentation, you provide tutorials and material. Not just go "Here's the LUA. Enjoy!"

Not being funny but anyone who takes up DF-9 post 1.0 is effectively doing DoubleFine's -job- for them, and that shouldn't be an altruistic venture.

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The problem with DF-9 is that effectively, beyond 1.0, the dev team have pretty much said "We're fixing some bugs, but that's it", the fact they're opening the LUA is -exclusively- because they've been forced to move to 1.0 so quickly and it's a hand wave to do some damage control in the hope someone might actually pick up where they left off.

.

Actually, I can legitimately correct you up on this one: the decision to release the code was in the very first version of the DevPlan from day one

They wanted to do Steam Workshop integration like they did with Hack 'n' Slash, and it doesn't seem like they'll get to that, but they wanted, among other things:

"* mod support!

** "mods" subdir where user-created scripts patch base game lua files at runtime

** provide uncompiled lua source for gameplay-relevant classes, eg Character.lua, to support modders"

The only change they're making to this original plan is that it might not be Steam Workshop integrated, and it's possible they're opening up more of the source than originally intended (though even this isn't clear)

So it seems more likely to me that the reason they are doing this is, sure, partially because hopefully some cool mods that expand the possibilities of the game will come out of it, but also because it's a fairly 'quick win' in that it doesn't cost them much to provide access to the lua scripts to make modding possible and so why wouldn't they tick that off their list?

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The problem with DF-9 is that effectively, beyond 1.0, the dev team have pretty much said "We're fixing some bugs, but that's it", the fact they're opening the LUA is -exclusively- because they've been forced to move to 1.0 so quickly and it's a hand wave to do some damage control in the hope someone might actually pick up where they left off.

.

Actually, I can legitimately correct you up on this one: the decision to release the code was in the very first version of the DevPlan from day one

They wanted to do Steam Workshop integration like they did with Hack 'n' Slash, and it doesn't seem like they'll get to that, but they wanted, among other things:

"* mod support!

** "mods" subdir where user-created scripts patch base game lua files at runtime

** provide uncompiled lua source for gameplay-relevant classes, eg Character.lua, to support modders"

The only change they're making to this original plan is that it might not be Steam Workshop integrated, and it's possible they're opening up more of the source than originally intended (though even this isn't clear)

So it seems more likely to me that the reason they are doing this is, sure, partially because hopefully some cool mods that expand the possibilities of the game will come out of it, but also because it's a fairly 'quick win' in that it doesn't cost them much to provide access to the lua scripts to make modding possible and so why wouldn't they tick that off their list?

That's fair. But losing Steam Workshop support is going to be a harsh blow. Mind, you'd have thought they'd be a bit quicker off the mark and a bit earlier to embrace any possible modders too, this does feel a little rushed, but yes, if such mods come to pass, it will be nice. I can't see anyone going for a massive overhaul without looking at DoubleFine and saying they want some kind of return though, it's not like Starbase Gemini 2 or Skyrim or indeed Hack and Slash where the game is very much feature complete and people are bending it to their wishes.

That's a discussion if such a bridge gets crossed though.

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