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Jack Vernian

Inspirational thread

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Greetings, strangers.

I would like to quickly summarize my point of view on current situation.

Considering how far fanbase of this particular game, and Double Fine as a whole has come to resemble more of a child, rather than a grown up family member, I would like to express my opinion on how great quantinites of energy and so-called "hype" are wasted in vain during heated and utterly useless arguments. It is understandable, but still (pardon me for any offense I may bring to you by this saying), quite childish. Such behaviour is destructive and won't bring you any good. It may bring to you a certain feeling of accomplishment or satisfaction when you have "won" an argument on the internet, but the truth is, you've wasted more energy than you've gained, and your opponent is still holding fast to his opinion. Nevertheless, it is not the main subject of my appeal.

Instead, I would like you to think of the possibilities instead of uselessly fighting your own emotions. Yes, It is silly to not admit that creators of this glorious game have been subjected to either poor management, or a very particular plan. Either way it doesn't matter for it can't change the fact that the funding of this project has been cut short. Instead of focusing on this useless and purely emotional topic, I would like you to focus on the other side of the coin.

If you have played Spacebase DF-9, you may have noticed how much effort was put into it. How every single detail is filled with total love and commitment. This is not a clay golem, but a child of flesh and bone(or bits and pixels, rather), which was grown not to be cast away for profit, but to live and strive to perfection. Yes, it is perhaps a bit too poetic of a way of saying what I mean, and I am sorry for that.

LeBreton did not kill his child. I would not believe he would, after year and a half of passionate development. Yes, they've made mistakes, mainly by not giving enough time to keep in touch with the community, but they never lied. Those hurtful accusations without understanding of situation a lot of you throw at them out of anger and dissappointment are understandable and quite expected.

What I would like you to do is to exceed their expectations. Show that you are better than that. I don't ask you to "love" double fine for their inefficient fund management or passionate approach to the games they are making. You decide it for yourself. What I want you to focus your energy on anger and frustration, for they take away your power. I ask you to forgive and forget, and act more calmly and understandable.

Now, I want you to look into the future.

As an active Space Station 13 enthusiast developer, I must say that this game, alongside with Dwarf Fortress, can be a base of either abandonment, or huge success. The modding possibilities for this game are endless. Much like Space Station 13.

If you compare first build of space station 13- it was nothing but Atmosphere-On-A-Space-Station simulation going on, without any actual gameplay. By the hands of the community it has become a pure ball of awesomeness it is now.

I say, why can't we do the same for Spacebase DF-9? Why can't we, instead of(pardon me) whining for refunds and trying to prove guilt or absence of guilt of the developer, why won't we focus on what we want to add to this game? What we would like to add to make it a game of our dreams? LeBreton gave the lua code because he truly cares about his child, and because he trusts that you as a community will give it a chance to live on and on.

I want you to look at the possibilities, and not simply find the box and be "outta here". Become the part of the game. Develop it the way you want! Suggest what you would like to add, contribute, share ideas, make it better! Do not be stuck in the past. Like I said, your arguing is not constructive.

In the end if anyone wonders and to be totally honest with you, I would like to also add that I do not own the licensed copy of Spacebase DF-9, due to financial difficulties in Ukraine. Yes, I've totally pirated a copy, and really fell in love with this game, much in the same way I did with Space Station 13. I do not take pride in stealing it, but that's the way it is.

Have a good day, Lads and Lassies.

May your future be as constructive as possible, and your destructive potential reduced to zero.

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The very first thing I'd like to see modders do, is set up a system of partial gas pressure, so that oxygen level lowers and carbon dioxide increases by breathing, nitrogen stays the same; and water vapour management and temperature management is added. The system that makes breathing cause local pressure loss like it does right now is hilarious, but so, so wrong. And it also creates several design problems for us playing it, which can be seen by for example pubs needing to be connected to really high levels of oxygen production.

As for heat handling: You see, space may be cold, but space also lacks the advection, conduction and convection (which is really a combination of advection and conduction) methods of heat transfer, and these are much stronger than the remaining one, radiation (IR in particular). Which means that space station management needs to deal with reducing heat build up.

And water vapour? Well, one way of dealing with heat is to do what the real life space stations have done and still do: expose excrement to space, water from it evaporates and this leads to evaporative cooling. But at the same time, you lose water mass that way, so if you didn't replace lost water, you'd eventually get a really dry environment up in the space station.

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The very first thing I'd like to see modders do, is set up a system of partial gas pressure, so that oxygen level lowers and carbon dioxide increases by breathing, nitrogen stays the same; and water vapour management and temperature management is added. The system that makes breathing cause local pressure loss like it does right now is hilarious, but so, so wrong. And it also creates several design problems for us playing it, which can be seen by for example pubs needing to be connected to really high levels of oxygen production.

As for heat handling: You see, space may be cold, but space also lacks the advection, conduction and convection (which is really a combination of advection and conduction) methods of heat transfer, and these are much stronger than the remaining one, radiation (IR in particular). Which means that space station management needs to deal with reducing heat build up.

And water vapour? Well, one way of dealing with heat is to do what the real life space stations have done and still do: expose excrement to space, water from it evaporates and this leads to evaporative cooling. But at the same time, you lose water mass that way, so if you didn't replace lost water, you'd eventually get a really dry environment up in the space station.

Radiators is a good Idea. You even could use heat buildup as means of making energy, if you think about it. Water is too precious to waste on primitive cooling technique. Heat equals energy, so i think you actually can use it both in real life and here to produce either small or not-so-small amounts of energy, while radiating the rest into space via certain means. And yes, about depressurizing the room by breathing. Instead of only "Oxygen" there should also be "CO2"(at the very primitive basic) meter which is proportional to "Oxygen". To be more serious, we could actually add Nitrogen, Oxygen and CO2, and, perhaps, other gasses. Maybe even potentially explosive or flammable, hehe. But we should wait untill 1.0 is out so then we can see how complicated everything is.

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The very first thing I'd like to see modders do, is set up a system of partial gas pressure, so that oxygen level lowers and carbon dioxide increases by breathing, nitrogen stays the same; and water vapour management and temperature management is added. The system that makes breathing cause local pressure loss like it does right now is hilarious, but so, so wrong. And it also creates several design problems for us playing it, which can be seen by for example pubs needing to be connected to really high levels of oxygen production.

As for heat handling: You see, space may be cold, but space also lacks the advection, conduction and convection (which is really a combination of advection and conduction) methods of heat transfer, and these are much stronger than the remaining one, radiation (IR in particular). Which means that space station management needs to deal with reducing heat build up.

And water vapour? Well, one way of dealing with heat is to do what the real life space stations have done and still do: expose excrement to space, water from it evaporates and this leads to evaporative cooling. But at the same time, you lose water mass that way, so if you didn't replace lost water, you'd eventually get a really dry environment up in the space station.

Radiators is a good Idea. You even could use heat buildup as means of making energy, if you think about it. Water is too precious to waste on primitive cooling technique. Heat equals energy, so i think you actually can use it both in real life and here to produce either small or not-so-small amounts of energy, while radiating the rest into space via certain means. And yes, about depressurizing the room by breathing. Instead of only "Oxygen" there should also be "CO2"(at the very primitive basic) meter which is proportional to "Oxygen". To be more serious, we could actually add Nitrogen, Oxygen and CO2, and, perhaps, other gasses. Maybe even potentially explosive or flammable, hehe. But we should wait untill 1.0 is out so then we can see how complicated everything is. With water vapour comes different kinds of asteroids and ultimately different kinds of materials, not only classified as "universal matter" but still that could be quite an unnecessary complication to the game where everything is converted to matter and can be turned into everything else.

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Alright, I'll put what I feel needs to go into the game, and this is looking at it from the perspective of a fairly fundamental question, it's not "what wishlist things might sound cool to go in" but "what is the fundamental requirements to bring DF-9 up to a level that would make it properly sandboxy" - if you ask that question, look at what's in the game, then look at what's not, there's some low hanging fruit which could be picked off pretty readily that would greatly improve the overall functionality of the game right away.

First and foremost, we have a brig, but we don't have a security station that goes around the brig. An armoury and a security station room would be a must, along with being able to get security role personnel to favour the armoury and security room to go to for various duties, added to that I would suggest having turrets link back to the security room (increased effectiveness perhaps?), and some kind of central dispatch system so that if there's a riot on the station security can get sent over to deal with it and put people in the brig.

Second, we have a pub. We lack other entertainment options such as a library (for quiet indoorsy types), zero-gee sports halls or similar (for energetic types, yes, this somewhat overlaps with the gym but you could have a room that serves dual purpose as entertainment AND gym function). There needs to be more than one way for the colonists to let off steam than "going to the pub", right now that's a significant hurdle in the whole process.

Third, the tech tree. There isn't one. There's some flat efficiency upgrades and that's it. There needs to be one, preferably with some interesting choices for the player at various stages which make the station feel like his or her own, so that they develop a real sense of ownership beyond the design element. Things that offer unique and significant benefits such as gourmet cooking or recreational substances from the garden. Be creative and a little off the wall here.

Fourth, maintenance, right now it's a sortof filler job, but this could have been fleshed out into the whole "Space janitor" role with a room of it's own and the tech tree bleeding off into it. Again, there's scope here for an extra room, needs and skills that make people willing / happy to be in such a role, etc.

Fifth, once the base is up and running and the core facilities are rolling, what's the end game beyond "Build a bigger base"? What is the overall aim? Should there be an intended failstate or should the base be able to run ad infinitum. If so, is there end-game level rooms and options that should be worked towards, what are they? A good example of this would be upgradable furniture and items, so you go through two or three versions, improving your base steadily over it's lifetime, replacing old parts with newer, more effective ones.

That's my most immediate thoughts.

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Another thinking about the atmosphere composition: What about different alien races having different preferences, so that you actually have to adjust their individual rooms. Life support wouldn't just scrub CO2 to O2 (could even help return matter, as that carbon would go back into the matter pool, at the cost of energy.), but would need to scrub nitrous gasses, sulfur etc.. If you set a balance for the base over all, then you have a baseline that some races will be more comfortable with and other races less comfortable with etc., and that balance would be part of maintaining happiness. Individual rooms regulated to different settings would give benefit to separate living quarters over dormitories...

I'd also want to separate out the changing room from the air lock. The air lock should have a single purpose - making sure you don't vent out atmosphere when going in or out of the station. The dressing procedure and all that should not affect the airlock, it should happen within the atmosphere of the base.

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In my point of view, I would hope to see SB gameplay goes beyond by having the tough to implement elements, such as the Z base levels, planetary exploration, time portal etc. While it may brake the game in so many ways, I would hope to see the plan or rough idea for potential modders later on. In that way I suppose a wider range of exploration (potentially a story mode rather than open sandbox) can be done.

In comparison to Massive Chalice, we are sort of immortal ruler too in SB, but in space. Makes me thinking of offsprings.

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As a programer. Please stay the fuck away from complex system like CO2, oxygen, etc. No. Just. No. This isn't a simulation. KISS (Keep it Simple. SIMPLE!). This is the future - they can turn hydrogen into everything. Let's not track individual element.

It's better to have several dimensions to air block like breathable from 0-10 (0- means you can't breath), visible (0-means smoke prevents vision) and flammable from 0-10 (10 means any malfunctioning electronic device or flame source ignites that and all nearby >5 flammability cubes), than to have precise element tracking. If you have fire, it causes nearby breathability and visibility to drop. If you have a hole, the breathability drops to 0 but flammability also goes to 0. Plants grow best when there is ~4 breathability (optimal carbon content), etc.

As for janitors - why not first add Robotic Janitor that looks like a Dalek and collects garbage, do small repairs and other droid like activities, but that get easily agitated into a murderous rampage (PURGE ALL HUMANS!!). On the flip side, they have almost no needs (hell you can even justify bad pathfinding for them). On the other side you could train humans to eventually become Super Space Janitor, which can repair any malfunction quickly but have crazy demands.

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As a programer. Please stay the fuck away from complex system like CO2, oxygen, etc. No. Just. No. This isn't a simulation. KISS (Keep it Simple. SIMPLE!). This is the future - they can turn hydrogen into everything. Let's not track individual element.

It's better to have several dimensions to air block like breathable from 0-10 (0- means you can't breath), visible (0-means smoke prevents vision) and flammable from 0-10 (10 means any malfunctioning electronic device or flame source ignites that and all nearby >5 flammability cubes), than to have precise element tracking. If you have fire, it causes nearby breathability and visibility to drop. If you have a hole, the breathability drops to 0 but flammability also goes to 0. Plants grow best when there is ~4 breathability (optimal carbon content), etc.

As for janitors - why not first add Robotic Janitor that looks like a Dalek and collects garbage, do small repairs and other droid like activities, but that get easily agitated into a murderous rampage (PURGE ALL HUMANS!!). On the flip side, they have almost no needs (hell you can even justify bad pathfinding for them). On the other side you could train humans to eventually become Super Space Janitor, which can repair any malfunction quickly but have crazy demands.

I agree with the more towards sci-fi settings, rather than realistic (but frustrating most of the time) which also makes me agree for the tech tree existence is valid request.

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In comparison to Massive Chalice, we are sort of immortal ruler too in SB, but in space. Makes me thinking of offsprings.
Didn't one of the MC teamstreams arrive at the conclusion that Spacebase DF-9 and Massive Chalice are set in the same storyverse? :)

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unless they add in steam workshop for the final release , mods will not have that kind of reach. I hope some of you modders contact double fine and ask that steamworkshop be added for the game. Just look at how much it has done for games like skyrim , age of empires and shadowrun. Without it people would not bother to visit a 3rd party site to get em

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The game doesn't even work in linux. How about. Instead of adding more features and going to version 1.0, the freaking developers get the game working?

That would be lovely. But you know. Double Fine is one of the most incompetent developers I've seen in a while. Can't believe I actually backed their games.

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The game doesn't even work in linux. How about. Instead of adding more features and going to version 1.0, the freaking developers get the game working?

That would be lovely. But you know. Double Fine is one of the most incompetent developers I've seen in a while. Can't believe I actually backed their games.

One of the major things that they're working on with the 1.0 release is fixing bugs (they stated that 1.0 will have "over a month’s worth of pure bug-fixing work"). And, since there's many in the Linux version I'm sure fixing the major bugs in the Linux release is one of the things that they've been working on before it goes to full retail status with 1.0.

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The game doesn't even work in linux. How about. Instead of adding more features and going to version 1.0, the freaking developers get the game working?

That would be lovely. But you know. Double Fine is one of the most incompetent developers I've seen in a while. Can't believe I actually backed their games.

One of the major things that they're working on with the 1.0 release is fixing bugs (they stated that 1.0 will have "over a month’s worth of pure bug-fixing work"). And, since there's many in the Linux version I'm sure fixing the major bugs in the Linux release is one of the things that they've been working on before it goes to full retail status with 1.0.

Hey. A reply. Not completely dead. But you see. Ever since the release of "Alpha 6", the game has not run on linux. You do understand if there were more bugs and issues than just trying to play the game with 4FPS, the linux people wouldn't have been able to even help out with it... which is the purpose of an ALPHA. And then BETA is for fixing the bugs that are left over from the alpha stage to make sure the features for full released are actually "Finished"

This is just going to be a rushed piece of shite I feel. 6? updates to alpha 6 and not one addressed the gameplay issue users were having. Just like with the audio issues.

They released each alpha without really testing it. And now they are magically out of money? How can they add more features and test it all? Just. how?

If they had (even a short 2 month beta stage to make sure it is ready for release) I wouldn't complain.

"Alpha Funded / Early Access is not an 'alternative' development approach. It has a very specific use for a very specific set of games," said Andy Hodgetts of Project Zomboid developer The Indie Stone. "So what is very clear to me, is if you can't guarantee this from the outset then Alpha-Funding / Early Access is not for you. It's too risky and were it just your own reputation on the line, that'd be fine. But failures tarnish the reputation of the entire model, so a failure (particularly a high-profile failure) is potentially damaging to the very developers who need this model the most."

Alpha: Unfinished game, add features.

Beta: Finish the game, prep for release

Full release: game done.

But what double fine is doing

Alpha: LOL THANKS FOR MONEY AND WE MIGHT LISTEN TO YOUR ISSUES

Beta: LOL you're funny! We're out of money! But let's work on 6 other games!~

Full release: LOL! Thanks for buying our game we just rushed out! Oh? Something else doesn't work? Thanks for beta testing it since we don't have money or ability to test the game ourselves!

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The thing is though, none of us knows what 1.0 is going to bring. We don't really know what resources were put into 1.0 either, beyond the fact that it's been stated that a lot of bug fixing work has been done. It's certainly possible that they put more internal testers on this than the previous releases, since this is going to be the release that is going to make it go from early access to full retail. We'll just have to wait until the release comes out before we know how it's going to play.

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