Sign in to follow this  
liorean

Extremely wonky attack system

Recommended Posts

Been playing this game for a while now. About half an hour in the training battle, against Corvus. Now, a single battle, a training mode battle at that, and it's taking half an hour? Yes, it in fact did. Why?

Because the attack system seems terribly off. First of all, it tells me to attack using the top button or 1 depending on whether I'm in controller or keyboard mode. That's fine. Then it tells me to press the button again for the attack, this time pressing it on impact. Okay, fair enough. And that's what I've spent half an hour trying to do. First using the controller and the indicator over his head, trying to press when the indicator closes around the button. Failed a few times, so I try to watch the animation, and time it by that instead. Likewise, after a few minutes, that doesn't seem to work. So I try another idea, and just spam the button. That fumbles the attack, okay. So I try the keyboard. Same thing, whether going by the indicator or the attack animation. One thing of note, is that when using the keyboard, the controller rumbles during the attack animation, while it does not rumble while using the keyboard. Which is obviously broken - if you have a controller plugged in but are playing in mouse-and-keyboard mode, the game should never use the controller for feedback output like rumble. Anyway ten minutes have passed and I have still not managed a hit, when suddenly double pressing the button during the early phase of the animation I manage to get a hit. But he asks me to repeat that, so after about twenty increasingly frustrating minutes of trying to time with the animation, I finally switch back to keyboard. And try to time with the rumble (Which by the way happens not directly at teh start of the animation, but way before the animation indicates to press the button, or for that matter, the fighting animation actuall impacts.). IT WORKED!. So I need to time it with the rumble, not with either the button animation or the fighting animation! And I only get the rumble if I have a controller, but while playing on keyboard!

Same problem appears when defending - he tells me to tap at the time of impact, but actually, I need to tap quite early in the animation, way before impact.

Please, patch these two things - the animations are obviously not timing right, and the rumble should happen while using the controller, and never happen if using keyboard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to hear you had a frustrating time! We actually even put some code in there to move on after a few tries if someone can't get it due to frame rate issues. I'm surprised that didn't trip for you. What platform are you on?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Windows.

I think what I'm really complaining about, (the controller rumbling while using keyboard aside), is that it isn't obvious what the player is trying to time exactly. It's obviously not what I thought it was, which is when the outer circle and the inner circle markers meet on the indicator. Whatever I have to match is way earlier than those hitting each other. (Also, the line about timing with impact is misleading, since that happens later than when I have managed to get good hits.) I still don't know exactly what it is I'm trying to match up, after dozens of enemy fights in Bayou. Is it the four jagged things on the outer circle matching the inner circle's four jagged things? Is it when the inner circle appears, since it's slightly delayed from when the outer circle appears? I don't know. Trying to hit either has been fruitless at giving me consistent results. You have no really telling sign of what I'm doing wrong, or of what a hit should look like, in the game training part, which I guess would help.

Especially as in the second training session with Corvus, I've gotten good hits in the second attack when pressing slightly before the indicator even appears.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hitting early to get it working is usually a sign of low frame rate. Before we optimized things, we had that issue. You'll see a little white flash on teh reticle when you're supposed to hit it. If that's not working, maybe try turning down your resolution or turning off some rendering features to see if that helps any. Sorry you're having trouble with it! Hopefully we can get you working!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I, too, found it unclear when I was supposed to hit the key. I'm getting plenty of "Nice!"s and a few "Amazing"s (I actually can't recall what they're called), but I have no idea what I'm doing right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're getting Nices, then you're doing it right! Amazings are basically perfect frame timing. Super hard to get.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, I'm not getting a white flash with either changing my settings to really low (very nice and stable fps), nor with changing to the directx9 build. However, you are lightening the outer indicator ring, and that colour nuance change is enough to get consistent good hits. The fact I'm not getting that white flash might be a graphics card issue though. I don't get several of the water and foam effects in Broken Age, so something similar might be happening here.

However - I withstand my point, you are really not clear about exactly what I'm looking for timing wise in the training sessions. You could do well with improving that. I think for example having a simple image series that shows how the indicator should look for fumbles, mehs, good hits, nice hits hits and amazing hits though. (I notice there's a level where you don't get Nice!, but you still get a second attack. So I guess you have three success levels, one normal/inaction, one failure)

And the rumble issue is still something I think you should patch. Don't rumble just because a controller is connected, rumble if the player is actually playing using the controller. Specifically, don't rumble if the player is playing keyboard only, even if he's got a controller connected..

I've got other issues as well, but I'll address them separately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm getting the same experience as liorean - I don't spot a white flash and it feels like I get the best results from hitting a little before the circles intersect.

Is there a frame rate counter I can enable somewhere?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear Double Fine and Midnight City,

After spending a few hours with the game last night, I still find myself wondering why the battle controls were changed. What was wrong with the old system of having dedicated buttons for normal attack, special attack, item/relic ability, and run away? Why is selecting an action with A/D and confirming with the character slot number better? I find this new layout to be cumbersome to use.

I don't mind using 1, 2, and 3 in the battle mode--in fact, it may actually be easier than managing E, Q, Space, and Shift--but I strongly think they should have been used as dedicated action buttons: 1 for special attack, 2 for normal attack, and 3 for Creepy Treat Cards, if you want to keep the same order of operations (Run Away should still be mapped to R like the old game).

I implore you to add a Classic Battle Controls option, as well as the control remapping functionality that CQ1 had. I may be somewhat resistant to change, but I believe the old control scheme was much simpler.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, malinoski. Unfortunately, I imagine that a classic option would be too big of a change to make at this point. However, we are still looking into keyboard remapping. Last I heard, there were some unexpected issues that prevented us from supporting remapping on day one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just want to say had same issue as OP, rage-quit after 45 min of trying to pass the tutorial. Went back and eventually got it, but experiencing framerate issues that make it impossible to play (not just in the gameplay, but in the cut scenes. Every door I knock on, the video takes 30 seconds while the audio is on time, other cinematic cuts are just as bad if not worse).

I don't know how I can play Skyrim and online fighting games smoothly on my PC, but when I try to play this it's a stuttering mess at 800x600 with everything nice turned off. Do you have any advice?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, MinuteWalt. It's possible that you're below minimum spec but without knowing any details about your system, I can only suggest making sure your drivers are up to date and continuing to lower the visual quality until the framerate improves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this