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Leminnes

Re: Recent Events in Gaming Culture

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I lost a lot of respect for Quinn after reading those logs, and I recognised it as the abuse that it was. Doesn't mean that I approve of the harassment that she received or of harassment against anyone, really.
I thought it's been well established that those logs were fabricated. My understanding is that there are chat logs which show how whats-his-name deliberately conspired to make stuff up just to make her look bad.

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I thought it's been well established that those logs were fabricated. My understanding is that there are chat logs which show how whats-his-name deliberately conspired to make stuff up just to make her look bad.

Not that GG can use it in their argument anyway since Quinn is not a game journalist.

I'm talking about the Facebook logs on the boyfriend's blog post. He even put up a video to prove that they are real. I'm not saying that this is conclusive proof, but at least it's convincing enough for me.

And my issue wasn't with the cheating, and not even journalism ethics in particular (although I would be interested in that discussion, if it weren't for the fact that GG has made it impossible to have a normal discussion about it), it was mostly the pattern of abuse and manipulation that I recognised all too well. The gaslighting, the lying, the suicide threats...

Edit: if you do have conclusive proof that the logs were fabricated, I'd be very interested in that. I'd also do a complete 180 and publicly apologise for what I said.

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You made me poke around the net for a while.

http://idledillettante.com/2014/12/06/eron-gjoni-hateful-boyfriend/

A few weeks ago, I mentioned to my parents that there was crazy stuff going on in the gaming community, blah blah explaining Gamergate, you know. They didn't know what I was talking about really, so I poked about looking for an article that easily explained what was going on. I recall that in my searching around one of the things I read was that there was evidence that Quinn's boyfriend had taken ages to craft that stupid zoepost and other stuff in an effort to purposefully ruin her life (basically calling the legitimacy of the whole Quinnspiracy thing into question), and that there were chat logs between him and his friends talking about how to word it and whatever.

So, there you are. I didn't actually see the evidence /before/ that he was maybe making it all up, but that link there has screenshots of what the article I previously read was referring to.

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I kind of love that the last couple pages of this thread have mostly been about what makes good satire.
I edited one of my posts to strikeout "satire" and insert "parody" because of a good point Pi made.
If people with disparate points of view couldn't converse and debate without fear of giving each other legitimacy, there would be no progress for either side.
Sounds like politics to me.

"That was a good idea, but the other side came up with it so it sucks."

"You know that idea we once had. We liked that idea. Well, you took it and changed a few things about it to contrast a dumb idea someone on our side had. And now because people think that good idea is your idea, it sucks."

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I recall that in my searching around one of the things I read was that there was evidence that Quinn's boyfriend had taken ages to craft that stupid zoepost and other stuff in an effort to purposefully ruin her life (basically calling the legitimacy of the whole Quinnspiracy thing into question), and that there were chat logs between him and his friends talking about how to word it and whatever.

So, there you are. I didn't actually see the evidence /before/ that he was maybe making it all up, but that link there has screenshots of what the article I previously read was referring to.

It's nothing new. He said up front that it took him about a month of deliberation and consultation with several people whether to put it up and how to do it. Which is not really to say that putting it up was ethical, just that he was never hiding it.

I'll definitely give it a look later (I really have to work right now), but from the first glance, it seems like a lot of it has been cherrypicked for the purpose of character assassination. There's stuff in there that I remember reading and it was in a different context than is presented in this post. And there have been other people coming forward who have corroborated Gjoni's story. For example, there is this post that basically lends credence to Gjoni's version that 4chan found it by accident: https://medium.com/@srachel_m/gamergate-launched-in-my-apartment-and-internet-im-sorry-not-that-sorry-13e5650fd172

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Not that I care about Zoe, really. If she cheated, she did, and if she didn't then she didn't. It's none of mine. It's none of any of our business. She shouldn't have to walk around with a scarlet A on her chest for the rest of her life.

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Because it's inconsequential either way. It accomplishes nothing, and becomes a joke in and of itself without even mentioning the content it satirizes.

Meh, it got laughs, it spread awareness, it made its point -- I'd say it accomplished what it intended. A bunch of people coming in afterwards and saying that the joke technically doesn't work doesn't change that.

People are laughing alright.

They're just not laughing at Target.

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Not that I care about Zoe, really. If she cheated, she did, and if she didn't then she didn't. It's none of mine. It's none of any of our business. She shouldn't have to walk around with a scarlet A on her chest for the rest of her life.
I agree, and again, what got me was the abuse. I couldn't care less about the infidelity.

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Not that I care about Zoe, really. If she cheated, she did, and if she didn't then she didn't. It's none of mine. It's none of any of our business. She shouldn't have to walk around with a scarlet A on her chest for the rest of her life.
I agree, and again, what got me was the abuse. I couldn't care less about the infidelity.

Yeah... I think that Gjoni has more than topped anything she could have possibly done. By, like, a thousand fold.

If anything, this entire thing has taught me to be very wary about dating over OKCupid. You might have Gjoni on the other side, willing to sick the entire internet on you instead of talking things out like a normal person.

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Yeah... I think that Gjoni has more than topped anything she could have possibly done. By, like, a thousand fold.
Being a victim doesn't mean that you can't be an abuser and vice versa. In fact, in many cases, abusers are former victims of abuse themselves.

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Yeah... I think that Gjoni has more than topped anything she could have possibly done. By, like, a thousand fold.
Being a victim doesn't mean that you can't be an abuser and vice versa. In fact, in many cases, abusers are former victims of abuse themselves.

Look, it's like that guy who shot the other guy to death in the theater for throwing popcorn. The popcorn-throwing guy was a jackass.... an "abuser" if you will, but the guy who shot him to death is still going to jail because that was an unreasonable, over the top response to a relatively minor stimuli.

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Well, it's more like the first guy used suicide threats to control the other guy and gaslighted him, and consistently lied to and manipulated with people around him, and the other guy published their private conversations online to expose the first guy, but sure, what happened is disproportionate to the offense caused in the first place.

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So you know how sometimes people say something so off putting you just can't think of a response...?

No, don't you see guys? Zoe Quinn was the villain all along!

Eron Gjoni was a poor innocent victim, who got a restraining order put on him for NO REASON WHATSOEVER and got fired from both of his jobs because of the huge stresses of keeping his internet awareness campaign to Zoe's awfulness going. We should be supporting him through this time, not condemning him, even though he could walk away at any moment and everyone would forget who he is, unlike certain villainous people.

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So you know how sometimes people say something so off putting you just can't think of a response...?

No, don't you see guys? Zoe Quinn was the villain all along!

Eron Gjoni was a poor innocent victim, who got a restraining order put on him for NO REASON WHATSOEVER and got fired from both of his jobs because of the huge stresses of keeping his internet awareness campaign to Zoe's awfulness going. We should be supporting him through this time, not condemning him, even though he could walk away at any moment and everyone would forget who he is, unlike certain villainous people.

SATIRE!

SGeXzM13TY0

You just wanted an excuse to post that, didn't you?

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So you know how sometimes people say something so off putting you just can't think of a response...?

No, don't you see guys? Zoe Quinn was the villain all along!

Eron Gjoni was a poor innocent victim, who got a restraining order put on him for NO REASON WHATSOEVER and got fired from both of his jobs because of the huge stresses of keeping his internet awareness campaign to Zoe's awfulness going. We should be supporting him through this time, not condemning him, even though he could walk away at any moment and everyone would forget who he is, unlike certain villainous people.

SATIRE!

SGeXzM13TY0

That was glorious.

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No, don't you see guys? Zoe Quinn was the villain all along!

Eron Gjoni was a poor innocent victim, who got a restraining order put on him for NO REASON WHATSOEVER and got fired from both of his jobs because of the huge stresses of keeping his internet awareness campaign to Zoe's awfulness going. We should be supporting him through this time, not condemning him, even though he could walk away at any moment and everyone would forget who he is, unlike certain villainous people.

I am not claiming that Gjoni is innocent. What a nice black and white worldview. If someone isn't an evil villainous mastermind, they must be a poor innocent victim.

Getting the restraining order had, btw, Quinn using accusations of mental illness (nice way to demonise this condition) and claiming Gjoni had a history of violence against family members -- he had tackled his grandfather as a child and his grandfather hit his head as a result.

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No, don't you see guys? Zoe Quinn was the villain all along!

Eron Gjoni was a poor innocent victim, who got a restraining order put on him for NO REASON WHATSOEVER and got fired from both of his jobs because of the huge stresses of keeping his internet awareness campaign to Zoe's awfulness going. We should be supporting him through this time, not condemning him, even though he could walk away at any moment and everyone would forget who he is, unlike certain villainous people.

I am not claiming that Gjoni is innocent. What a nice black and white worldview. If someone isn’t an evil villainous mastermind, they must be a poor innocent victim.

http://agfbrakpan.co.za/ClientFiles/Events/Matthew7-Do-not-judge/Pot-calling-kettle-black.png

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No, don't you see guys? Zoe Quinn was the villain all along!

Eron Gjoni was a poor innocent victim, who got a restraining order put on him for NO REASON WHATSOEVER and got fired from both of his jobs because of the huge stresses of keeping his internet awareness campaign to Zoe's awfulness going. We should be supporting him through this time, not condemning him, even though he could walk away at any moment and everyone would forget who he is, unlike certain villainous people.

I am not claiming that Gjoni is innocent. What a nice black and white worldview. If someone isn't an evil villainous mastermind, they must be a poor innocent victim.

Getting the restraining order had, btw, Quinn using accusations of mental illness (nice way to demonise this condition) and claiming Gjoni had a history of violence against family members -- he had tackled his grandfather as a child and his grandfather hit his head as a result.

Psst.

I'm not claiming anything about them. I'm making fun of YOU.

Because everything I posted? That's what Gjoni thinks. And that's what you're supporting when you believe him. Oh, he also thinks that because he got fired from his job for spending too much time harassing Zoe, it's her fault if the medical stuff he was building doesn't get built. She's now a MURDERER for having the audacity to not be quiet while being attacked.

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Is there an actually objective source for the proceedings during the Quinn./.Gjoni hearing? The only thing I found was on reddit and as biased as possible.

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I dunno... but the fact that the court proceedings favored Quinn makes me inclined to believe that there was enough verifiable evidence there for the order to be put in place. Judges are generally pretty good at detecting BS when a cop isn't involved.

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White women may have it better than black men in this country, but let's not forget that they're still a minority group and there is a case to be made that our justice system is biased against them.

Actually, they're a majority(Females anyway, if you want to segregate the population into white/black/male/female, then no group is technically a majority). They just aren't usually treated like it. Cases vary. There is discrimination both ways there. Just ask any divorced father.

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Yeah, it will change as the generations change. The heavy bias should be minimal after the current generation passes the torch. In the case of judges, that would be after the previous generation passes. There will be some bias as long as a certain culture exists in certain parts of North America(you know the ones), but the older idea of aged men seeing male v. female as reason v. emotion should be weeded out by the rest of the continent in the near future.

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as a man who wants to have children, to the point where I've basically decided to forgo the whole, having a partner thing and just adopt, which is another place where men run into prejudice, as single men are pretty much shunted to the bottom most adoption agencies waiting lists.
For the record, a child really does benefit very greatly by having a mother and a father who have a stable marriage. From what I gather, being a single parent is difficult in the extreme, and children suffer in their relationships if they don't have a positive male and female role model to look to.

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it still doesn't explain why women are favored over men, single women who want to adopt are going to be met with less resistance than single men
True. And it's also true that for a child to be adopted by a single adult is better than not being adopted by anyone. I'm just saying, between having a single parent and a married mom and dad, the (happily) married mom and dad is better.

A /healthy/ homosexual couple would make better parents than an abusive, broken or neglectful hetero one (which is often the case, sadly). I'm just saying that I figure a child being brought up with a mother /and/ father who loves them (and each other) is the ideal.

EDIT: But I wasn't really trying to make a point about homosexuality. I was only saying, in response to your want to forgo the finding of a partner before adopting a child, that having said partner is important for the child's development and so not to discount the idea of finding one first.

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