Jump to content
Double Fine Action Forums
Sign in to follow this  
KestrelPi

The Early Game

Recommended Posts

I thought I'd write a new post about this because there seems to be a cluster of possible issues focused around the early game that have been brought up in various posts. They come in 3 main flavours:

* How information is conveyed to the player in the UI

* How the game is taught to the player

* Mechanical issues around strategy

I started a new game tonight, and I had a MUCH better time with it than I did first time around, but I am concerned it's because I worked through a bunch of kinks in my first playthrough. I feel like if this game is going to make a good first impression, the early experience needs to be smoother - not necessarily easier, but definitely do just a little bit more to induct the player into its strange ways.

Broadly, I think this means doing a UI pass to convey information better, doing a bit more thorough tutorialising of the battles since a lot of important concepts which are visualised or have a button (such as whether you are in enemy attack range, and attacking from different angles don't get explained at all).

I don't think there's anything wrong with, like in XCOM, for the first few turns of combat, in the first mission have the player do specific moves so that these basic concepts can be explained.

On the map layer, I think we just need a bit more explanation of what different things do - a plainer explanation of what bonus a sagewright guild gives, what sorts of characters make good sagewrights, just little things like that.

Right now the game is in a great, fun state but inorder to get to the fun, the game assumes that you're going to figure out quite a few subtle concepts. Us backers, many of us have the advantage of following the updates, so we already have a headstart. I think it would be really easy for a newcomer to get lost in the first 20 years of this game, and not give it a chance before it starts to get into more of a flow, after that.

What do other people think? What improvements to the early game do you think might leave a better starting impression? Or what wouldn't you want changed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i think it need to be very clear that the class of the regent will be the class of all of the children they have and only that class.

there should be a tutorial on the melee positioning (including the knocking thing into other things part), and the hiding mechanic.

make it very clear that you can easily run out of heroes and how important breeding and challicing them is.

and give a tutorial about the height of blocking objects and how you can see over some but not others and you can also throw flasks over some but not others

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mm. I really think the minimum that first mission should convey is: how to move, attack, attack from a specific angle, use a special ability, how to tell if you are in line of sight of an enemy, how to tell if you are moving into an enemy's attack range, and how to check out your heroes traits. Oh, and camera movement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry if this is off topic, but are there hybrids in the beta, or does the regent totally define the class? I couldn't tell yet in my playthrough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry if this is off topic, but are there hybrids in the beta, or does the regent totally define the class? I couldn't tell yet in my playthrough.

not in the beta, so at the moment regent defines class, it maybe a research thing later or maybe we would have it from the start, so that would need explaining when it is done

Edit:

also the icons telling you about if you can see the enemy or hit them with a flask etc. need a tutorial

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i think it need to be very clear that the class of the regent will be the class of all of the children they have and only that class.

there should be a tutorial on the melee positioning (including the knocking thing into other things part), and the hiding mechanic.

make it very clear that you can easily run out of heroes and how important breeding and challicing them is.

and give a tutorial about the height of blocking objects and how you can see over some but not others and you can also throw flasks over some but not others

Shit see? I didn't know that! I thought that was random.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i would be happy with an xcom style first mission tutorial, only as long as following the instructions doesn't kill your guys (i really hated that), also maybe they could just do a detailed (popup diagrams and highlighting thing on the battlefield) tutorial for the first time you do anything

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed. I don't mind having my hand held for a few turns if it means that I know where everything is on the interface and how to control it at the end of it. It's much preferable to death-by-guesswork :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agreed. I don't mind having my hand held for a few turns if it means that I know where everything is on the interface and how to control it at the end of it. It's much preferable to death-by-guesswork :)

I agree with you guys. I add even those thoughts after my first quick play

Characters should be presented somehow to me even before fight, and not just descrbing the class, but their life as human people and why they are heroes.

I have no whatsoever attachment to those new heroes and their house names... like in XCOM at the start of the mission you have that nice view on who are the people and how you equip them, I love that. They look cool and heroic.

Jumping in the fight, I feel that those heroes, are just puny meatballs that I don't have any feelings towards them.

I believe that creations of the housenames helps with that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't been very active on the forums(sorry), but thought I would briefly pull my head out of the sand!

I'm not sure if it's just me and my bad luck, but it seems as though the heroes I get at the start of the game, more often that not have more negative traits than positive.

I am aware that you can draft in new heroes to ease the problem, but I'm just wondering if this was an intentional decision to reduce gains over the longer timeline.

I know there was some discussion by the team about "heroes are people" and don't just farm them for better stats and I think it's a nice sentiment, but I'm finding the game quite difficult and I'm wondering if it's just because I'm rubbish at micro-managing heroes and bloodlines.

Has there been any other discussion on this? Has anyone got any hints or tips?

Having said that, I'm really enjoying the game and I'm finding it a lot of fun and I keep going back to it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the first mission can we get one of each class so that the player can learn what units we will command for the beginning phase.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I haven't been very active on the forums(sorry), but thought I would briefly pull my head out of the sand!

I'm not sure if it's just me and my bad luck, but it seems as though the heroes I get at the start of the game, more often that not have more negative traits than positive.

I am aware that you can draft in new heroes to ease the problem, but I'm just wondering if this was an intentional decision to reduce gains over the longer timeline.

I know there was some discussion by the team about "heroes are people" and don't just farm them for better stats and I think it's a nice sentiment, but I'm finding the game quite difficult and I'm wondering if it's just because I'm rubbish at micro-managing heroes and bloodlines.

Has there been any other discussion on this? Has anyone got any hints or tips?

Having said that, I'm really enjoying the game and I'm finding it a lot of fun and I keep going back to it!

Check out my post Question for Brad/team about genetics. I quote an earlier explanation from Brad and also explain one possible way that genetics might be working. If you know the mechanics, you might have a better shot at figuring out how to turn mostly bad traits (I agree it seems the early game is supposed to include this) into mostly good. It can be done if you are careful and patient, it just takes a number of generations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do we have to manually pick the first specialization. It gets a bit repetitive when there are lots of children. Can we be prompted for the second choice and after.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One early game thing I'd really like is to be able to check out the outer province bonuses before having to assign a regent to our first keep. My decision for who the place there could change depending opn what bonuses are on the map.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I fervently agree. I just posted my first feedback post on my first two hours of gameplay and am currently in a pretty sticky situation, largely in part, I believe, due to the issues you mention above. While I suspected positioning and cover might be important, I had no way of knowing for sure and only assumed so because I've played a bit of XCOMM. I also overinvested in my Guild I think and now have a serious hero shortage. The lineage system, while intriguing, is still a bit too opaque for my liking. There's no clear visual explanation of how skill/trait/class inheritance works and I feel I may have accidentally skipped/ignored key instructional dialogue early in the game.

Still loving the game. Plan on restarting my timeline and giving my strategy a major overhaul.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...