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DrStoked

The Final Battle

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I just had my first battle on the last level and man... its tough. Can you even win this?

It seemed that for every one i put down two would pop up in its place!

I rose a forest around me for cover and hunkered down in front of the chalice.

A lot of ranged shots missed me, but they eventually went for the chalice more then me.

I just couldn't kill them fast enough!

I only lost around 4 heroes, but the enemy were relentless. There was never a point that I felt I was successfully holding them back.

A couple of other issues that I had, that I think may have been mentioned above:

1. The Alchemists that survived became dead weight after they'd used up their flasks.

They were incredibly useful up to that point in getting rid of enemy groups!

Perhaps the chalice could restock these after they run out at the end of a turn, similar to resurrecting a hero?

2.I had no idea that the heroes being summoned by the chalice were the ancestors. None at all.

This needs to be made more obvious, maybe with some dialogue from the chalice or a visual que.

I'm not suggesting a halo or anything, maybe a translucent glow around them? A green perhaps? I was going to say orange, but thats the cadence colour, as is blue really... I don't know, white?

3.Did I lose because I was keeping my heroes in cover meaning the cadence went straight for the chalice instead of my heroes? Am I being encouraged to sacrifice my heroes?

I feel like there is a lack of strategy here. I don't know if it'd be a good idea to be able to create a blockade at certain points to lessen the waves and help you focus more on specific entry points? As it stands there are 3/4 point of entry where you have to defend from, if you were able to place/shoot down/collapse something to block a path similar to the pillar pitcher I feel that might help put more of an edge to things.

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I finished the Final Battle some time after the recent patch. Allow me to bullet some of my experience on this:

- The battle lasted for about 45 minutes or so with only 1 casualty towards the end. Everyone was wearing wunderpants.

- Lv10 Hunter (Chalk One Up, OMG) + Lv10 Relic carried my team while the other Hunter (no Relic) helped out... a bit.

- 2 Alchemists with Lv10 Relics provided cover via Fertilizer Flask around the Chalice and took out Lapses with 1 hit. Also, BEES.

- My solo Caberjack (who tragically died from a miscalculated move) would stall for time via stun or pushed Ruptures into nice places to die with the Knockback Caber.

- I think there should be more music throughout the battles (overall, not just in the Final Battle) before making the switch to the epic I'm-pretty-close-to-the-end music.

- One thing that made it easier was how the Wrinklers seemed to keep walking back and forth between my visible area and out. As if they were just peeking at the battle then waddled back into the fog of war.

- I never got to summon Ancestors. I would've loved to see the legendary Jo "Tombstone" Wylder kick Cadence ass again. :(

- My priority for kills were: Bulwarks, Ruptures or Twitchers (whoever was closer), Cradles and Lapses, then finally the Wrinklers.

Summary:

There were fewer waves but I felt that it was a bit on the easy side. Sure, the initial waves were a pain because the accumulated waves were crowding the map. But after doing some cleanup, the waves were just warping in for a whoopin'. Then cleaned up the Wrinklers who were hiding.

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Thanks for the feedback you guys!

It's always tough to try to sift through this stuff. The two most recent posts are basically "it's impossible" and "it's too easy." :D!

More playthroughs are always great. Thanks for the writeups!

Right now we have fixes in the works for:

1. MUSIC!

2. Hiding Wrinklers.

3. Alchemist out-of-ammo problems.

All in all it's in a much better place and we're going to try some other things. Thanks again! :D!

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P.S. Would you mind if I changed the title of this thread? It bums me out every time I come to the forums. :D

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P.S. Would you mind if I changed the title of this thread? It bums me out every time I come to the forums. :D

Yes, absolutely. Especially since the title is no longer relevant, as now the final battle is significantly less broken :D.

I've already ran through it again, complete to the newly tuned final encounter and it feels 1000% better now.

Keep being rad, Brad!

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I just had a final battle attempt where Wrinklers were attacking the Chalice en masse and even though they didn't deplete its HP, after a certain number of hits, the Chalice died of old age.

...Huh?

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@DrStoked - thanks man! :D! I'm so glad that it's feeling better. We're going to keep working on this aspect of the game for a while. I really want to get this thing tuned up!

P.S. I JUST PUT THE MUSIC IN AND IT'S AWESOME. :D!

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I finally beat the game. I think I figured out what I was doing wrong. It seems that every time you reload a save state, a new wave shows up. This led to me getting about 15 waves before I beat it, and they only seemed to stop coming after I played through several rounds without reloading a save.

If you're having trouble getting to the end of the final battle, try to get through without using save states.

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@ddrussianinja - HOLY CRAP. That's kind of hilarious. :D

I like the idea of an immortal object being aged to the point where it just gives up the ghost. :D

I bet there's a bug in there! We'll check it out!

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L O L

immortal ruler!

-what

its the chalice

-what about it?

its..... its...

-it's what man! speak you senseless baffoon!

it has uh... well it started eating less, then started taking about "the ol days", then it always seemed to wake up before anyone eles. it forgot its own name.. then it started hitting on a goblet we just bought for the dinning room... i mean we should have known then, my aunt got like that before the end, all the male nurses were so confused, they were less then half her age-

-what are you getting at man! i am immortal but i havent got all day!

OK! well... uh... the large talking cup in the lobby has died of old age sir!

-..................... BAHAHAHAHAH!

THE END

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I just had a final battle attempt where Wrinklers were attacking the Chalice en masse and even though they didn't deplete its HP, after a certain number of hits, the Chalice died of old age.

...Huh?

I... actually wanna see that. Hopefully, I can get to it when I get home before Brad fixes it. Hahahaha

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There were fewer waves but I felt that it was a bit on the easy side.

That's interesting, I found the waves just kept on coming! I wonder if my save file didn't update the final level so I still have the mass of people pouring through.

I still have the save file if the Massive team are interested in checking it out, where would I upload/email it?

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There were fewer waves but I felt that it was a bit on the easy side.

That's interesting, I found the waves just kept on coming! I wonder if my save file didn't update the final level so I still have the mass of people pouring through.

I still have the save file if the Massive team are interested in checking it out, where would I upload/email it?

I think you should send it over to support at doublefine dot com as per Brad's tweet.

I only started playing the beta over the weekend since I was out of the country. So I think it may have been patched by then. I remember going over the patch notes and was shocked that the original had 10 waves. Hahaha!

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Great stuff!

So... where do you find the save files? I've checked out the local folder, but there's nothing obvious the indicates save data :\

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Great stuff!

So... where do you find the save files? I've checked out the local folder, but there's nothing obvious the indicates save data :\

C:\Users\*username*\AppData\Roaming\Doublefine\MassiveChalice\76561197964165126

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@Asirrelle - that would be great! We'd love to take a look at that file. Thanks! :D!

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Just finished my second run, and here's my last battle "stats":

-On my first run i went mix build on random guys(not my bloodline), my team was 2 cabers and 3 hunter(before nerf, pretty stupid damage), only had 1 caber die out of "old age", found it fairly easy most difficulties were the massive amount of adv. seeds that spawned sometimes(like 15 on one spawning point, like 30 in total per wave).

-On my second run i went 5 hunter team(all game, post nerf) from my bloodline, (offtopic: hunters still feel ridiculously powerful over the other clases) it too easy, i got mixed spawns of wrinklers, bulwarks, twitchers, lapses and Cradles.(i think waves were reduced by this time so it felt "short").

So:

-Like someone said MUSIC feels lacking.

-Maybe some kind of Uber cadence(boss) would be interesting

-Offtopic: hunters still feel OP xD

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@BattleHammer - Hahahaha yeah man I think I was worried about overnerfing the Hunters and I didn't go far enough! :D

DEAR ANY HERO DUMB ENOUGH TO STILL BE HOLDING A CROSSBOW,

GET READY TO FEEL THE WRATH OF THE SPREADSHEET.

LOVE,

BRAD

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@BattleHammer - Hahahaha yeah man I think I was worried about overnerfing the Hunters and I didn't go far enough! :D

DEAR ANY HERO DUMB ENOUGH TO STILL BE HOLDING A CROSSBOW,

GET READY TO FEEL THE WRATH OF THE SPREADSHEET.

LOVE,

BRAD

Hooray!

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If you want ridiculous damage with hunters, get one with the trait, that buffs his/her damage after a hero dies and go yolo with one other hero. THEN this hunter is hitting hard!

I had one in the end fight with the blunder bow and so was only damaging a little and even with like 3 chalk up it wasn't that hard. But after one hero died and an ancestor took its place... suddenly I could hit multiple enemies with 100+ damage and was killing anything in sight. And then another hero died... Maybe for nerfs we should look into this buff!

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If you want ridiculous damage with hunters, get one with the trait, that buffs his/her damage after a hero dies and go yolo with one other hero. THEN this hunter is hitting hard!

I had one in the end fight with the blunder bow and so was only damaging a little and even with like 3 chalk up it wasn't that hard. But after one hero died and an ancestor took its place... suddenly I could hit multiple enemies with 100+ damage and was killing anything in sight. And then another hero died... Maybe for nerfs we should look into this buff!

I started the last fight(and several others before) damaging for 50+ (relic bows), so you can 1 shot(doublé shot if necesary) anything.

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Honestly, if you can keep your LV10 hunters killing and alive long enough in the final battle, it still makes it a cake walk with Chalk One Up going up pretty high. Maybe capping the percentage you can get? Didn't notice if it had a limit last time I played.

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It doesn't make sense to me that bees can damage the Chalice, since it is not organic.

While I did well in the fights up to year 300, I didn't have a single child graduate at level 10, since I tended to keep my best fighters in the battle and use cover to overwhelm a limited number of cadence. My predisposition is to share the kills over the whole team, which is not a long term strategy. Once I saw that we would go through ancestors, I realised I was screwed from very early in the fight and lost heart. Many of the seedlings became cradles and when gathered around the Chalice couldn't really do much since they can't attack it directly. So I ended up leaving them their and going after the bigger threats.

Another thing I wondered is why do direct bloodlines have to be the only option, since the heroes roster is full of alive people at a higher strength who would be much more effective to tag in if a bloodline runs out.

Edit: OK I tried the second battle again and did much better with more focused attacks and using the caberjack's rage to take out multiple targets. However after a lapse took away a level, I still had to click the last upgrade/talent, which I didn't always do. It would be nice at the end of a turn to have the option to do the upgrade then, or be prompted at the start of the turn to pick an option. With the last and first ones, I think the option should be picked for you.

Now at the final level all the waves have been beaten, no more are came in until the game restarted. Then when the Chalice was on 0HP, the game didn't do anything. The camera still moves around, but that's it. Not even the esc key.

Also a wrinkler stuck in a wall.

wall.jpg

wall.jpg.1eaa4ed569de54640006cc503ff000e

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To throw in my experience on this fight, I was having a really hard time until I came up with a strategy that worked wonders. I used two caberjacks and three alchemists (I accidentally bred out hunters long ago thinking partners also picked classes lol). I threw a bunch of the fertilizer potions around and hid my alchemists in cover while my caberjacks ran out and did some damage. I ran out of potions but noticed you can recharge them off the chalice and just hid in my plant defenses until I got the win.

I lost one unit, but they resurrected into another alchemist with full potions that saved the day with a heal.

Edit - Oh, I noticed only the blue exp lowering guys, seeds, and the seed shooter things were spawning after the fight started.

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So now I've had the chance to play through the game and win the final battle, I have some thoughts about the final battle as it currently stands:

1) It's much, much better feeling than the old one

2) The new music for it is great!

But...

3) I think the cadence are far too keen to attack the Chalice now, to the point that they will ignore targets on the way to the chalice, even from quite far out. This makes them quite ineffectual. Example:

cmooon.PNG

This wrinkler ran around this corner, face to face with me, and just ended its turn rather than hitting the guy right in front of him. It feels like things would get more dangerous if they attack targets on the way to the chalice.

4) Despite the Cadence doing everything they can to get to the chalice, it still had over 400 HP by the end. It seems like it could do with fewer hit points, because I never felt it was truly under threat

5) I think I had a pretty standard team for the end game. 5 level 10s, 3 hunters and 2 caberjacks. I hadn't been using any weird dominant strategy during the game, I had a bunch of keeps, a sagewright guild and 2 crucibles (which I populated with high level standards) and I was able to get my heroes to level 10 consistently a comfortable 50-60 years before year 300, with a more or less equal mix of Alchemists, Hunters and Caberjacks. With this set up, probably because of some of the things above, I didn't feel like I was very much at risk of losing (and in fact never lost a battle through the whole game.)

6) It wouldn't have been half as easy without the Caberjack having the special knockback cabers, and Kill Rage, and with my hunters having bone bark bows. With these I was sometimes getting rid of mutiple clusters of enemies in quick succession. It felt really badass (which is GOOD, I want to keep that) but at the same time it means that the difference between a level 9 and level 10 caberjack and the difference between certain weapon choices in the final battle feels HUGE. I wouldn't go into the final battle right now without hunters and caberjacks.

So, in all, big improvement, but some AI issues, and right now the mid-late game seems a bit on the easy side and some of those choices for the final battle led to this endgame being sort of a breeze for me.

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Just finished the final battle, and it was a breeze.

I Think I got hit 2 times in the beginning, then everything died before they got close.

All heros level 10 with relics (3 level 10 and the other 2 got to level 10 during the final battle) 1 caberjack, 1 alchemist and 3 hunters.

I like the concept of the last battle though.

Thanks for a great game.

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If this battle is either easy or impossible, I'm on the latter side. See screenshot.

Was murdering masses of cadence for the first 60 minutes or so, making full use of save states (which apparently spawn more and more waves, YAY). And then the room became so overrun that the Cadence turn now takes 3 full minutes. Pretty ridiculous.

2014-11-10_00003.jpg

2014-11-10_00003.jpg.8d419d92f5325061cc7

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@Scylderon - a couple of questions!

How many waves of Cadence warped in?

Did you continue this old save from a previous patch?

I feel like there are sooo many bodies that something got messed up and you should have already won! :(

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Hi Brad!

I feel the same, haha. The battle went one twice as long as it seemed like it should have, but that's also hard to tell because there's no way to track progress toward completion of the fight.

I have 10 different saves from the battle, but I also did a lot of overwriting of the first few when the battle was well in hand. After it started to spiral, I ended up having a new savegame for each turn. As far as the number of waves, somewhere around a dozen. I stopped keeping track after 5 or 6.

I just arrived at the battle today, so it's not loaded from a previous patch.

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The fight you had seems nothing at all like my fight. I think I had maybe 8 cadence I had to fight any one time, and they were almost all oneshot kills, and with the caberjacks level 10 ability he dispatched 4 in 1 turn sometimes. Alchemist took care of 2-3 at a time (freethrow is awesome), and hunters instant killed anything 100% of the time.

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