Jump to content
Double Fine Action Forums
Sign in to follow this  
madoxlabs

No feedback that you are doing it wrong

Recommended Posts

I seem to be in the unfortunate position to have done everything wrong and now the game is far too hard for me to win. I am 10+ hours into this game and wanted to see the final battle, but I have to start over. My heros currently exit training around level 5, and its year 250ish. One of the recent missions had a reward of a level 9 dude, and that was my first real sign that I messed something up. Before that, I had a few complete wipes recently, but usually managed to win with 1 or 2 dudes surviving. I thought that's how the game was, but its really becoming super hard to win with all level 5 guys.

In summary - some kind of indication that 'hey you shouldn't be this weak this far in' might help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Odd, you would think you would be gaining enough experience during the battles to be leveling up. I'm guessing you lost a lot of people in each battle and where just churning out babies to make up the numbers? If that's the case they're looking into reducing the birth rates, which probably would have given you the indication that maybe you're fighting a loosing war.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You need at least some crucibles I think it is those training centers with high level char in too boost the babies.

And also the higher level your regents are the higher level the children will become.

But at the moment the game has only 1 diffeculty and the game is challanging and there is a lot of ways you can shoot yourself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm planning to make a separate post with all my thoughts, but as a new player I've run into similar problems with the almost-total lack of feedback on the strategy layer, or between the strategy and tactical layers. Are these good choices? How would I know? The game doesn't make any effort to teach you what is intended re: selecting regents/partners, nor how those selections will affect the children produced. I played for several hours yesterday, wondering why I wasn't getting any hybrid classes before coming to the forums and finding out I'd wasted an awful lot of very good heroes as partners. I still don't know whether regent and/or partner level/HP affects their childrens' levels, or how.

To the OP's problem, it might be this little detail that I wasn't aware of until I saw a complaint about it buried in someone's wall-of-feedback-text last night: When Lapses shoot your heroes, they leech XP, not just health. I'd been playing for hours (wondering why I wasn't making any headway on hero levels, decade after decade) without being aware of this. If you aren't strategically handling your battles with Lapses specifically to avoid this effect, you can be set back significantly without knowing why.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm planning to make a separate post with all my thoughts, but as a new player I've run into similar problems with the almost-total lack of feedback on the strategy layer, or between the strategy and tactical layers. Are these good choices? How would I know? The game doesn't make any effort to teach you what is intended re: selecting regents/partners, nor how those selections will affect the children produced. I played for several hours yesterday, wondering why I wasn't getting any hybrid classes before coming to the forums and finding out I'd wasted an awful lot of very good heroes as partners. I still don't know whether regent and/or partner level/HP affects their childrens' levels, or how.

To the OP's problem, it might be this little detail that I wasn't aware of until I saw a complaint about it buried in someone's wall-of-feedback-text last night: When Lapses shoot your heroes, they leech XP, not just health. I'd been playing for hours (wondering why I wasn't making any headway on hero levels, decade after decade) without being aware of this. If you aren't strategically handling your battles with Lapses specifically to avoid this effect, you can be set back significantly without knowing why.

Lapses are tutorialized (unless you hit the bug where you didn't get the tutorial) and it shows a -150xp every time your soldier gets hit. I think they're introduced a bit too early myself, but it does at least give you a fighting chance of knowing what they do.

In case you're actually wondering instead of posing a rhetorical question, each parent imparts a certain amount of XP per day to their child based on their level, so retiring high level heroes will result in a higher level offspring. Having a Crucible with a high level standard in it will increase this effect. The HP value doesn't mean anything on its own, but usually abnormally high HP values are the result of a trait which can be passed off to offspring (in the case of genetic traits) or any child adopted or not (in the case of personality traits.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If by "tutorialized" you mean "there's one line of VO the second time you target one", then maybe I heard it? But it in no way communicated to me that they were literally stealing XP. I have never encountered a video game enemy which was meta-gaming my character, and it was non-obvious.

When I'm playing a game and numbers fly off a character's head, generally it's safe to ignore the numbers and look only at the result: In MC's case, I was looking at the big floating HP numbers, since I'd assumed that (like every other game) what was flying off was some of their health. If my character had enough health left, I kept fighting with them, if not, I tried to move them to the back of the fight (or once I found & researched them, gave them a Health Potion). It certainly never occurred to me to memorize/watch a character's XP bar/number during a fight—in every other game I've played, it's been safe to assume "this character is fighting [the Cadence], their XP is going up" and especially in a system where I only pick skills every few levels I don't feel the game & interface are pushing me to pay attention to the numbers, just whether or not there's a +1 to pick a new skill at the end of the battle.

Sometimes (and I'm not sure how!) focus shifts to a close-up of an enemy and shows me their stats page—maybe put there (BIG) that their primary attack steals your XP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If by "tutorialized" you mean "there's one line of VO the second time you target one", then maybe I heard it? But it in no way communicated to me that they were literally stealing XP. I have never encountered a video game enemy which was meta-gaming my character, and it was non-obvious.

When I'm playing a game and numbers fly off a character's head, generally it's safe to ignore the numbers and look only at the result: In MC's case, I was looking at the big floating HP numbers, since I'd assumed that (like every other game) what was flying off was some of their health. If my character had enough health left, I kept fighting with them, if not, I tried to move them to the back of the fight (or once I found & researched them, gave them a Health Potion). It certainly never occurred to me to memorize/watch a character's XP bar/number during a fight—in every other game I've played, it's been safe to assume "this character is fighting [the Cadence], their XP is going up" and especially in a system where I only pick skills every few levels I don't feel the game & interface are pushing me to pay attention to the numbers, just whether or not there's a +1 to pick a new skill at the end of the battle.

Sometimes (and I'm not sure how!) focus shifts to a close-up of an enemy and shows me their stats page—maybe put there (BIG) that their primary attack steals your XP.

There's a few different status effects in this game that pop up over characters' heads, so I would say you should at least keep an eye on that through out the game. Many games of this type display different status effects this way so I don't think it's particularly unique, but it certainly can't hurt to make it clearer. Maybe a freeze frame on the character the first time you get hit with the -150 xp on there to complement the voice over?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed like Jallen said, I was getting most of my heros wiped out every fight after year 200 and most didnt live past 2 fights. I also only used the new researched weapons, because why would I research them and not use them??? And now I see thats why I never got relics?

Also parents operate like a standard??? I was putting level 1 heros as parents so that I dont waste the high level heros. Also I assumed that children had a chance to be either of the parent's classes.

Well I learned so much, time for a redo!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also parents operate like a standard??? I was putting level 1 heros as parents so that I dont waste the high level heros. Also I assumed that children had a chance to be either of the parent's classes.

These two mechanics are probably something that needs to be explained in greater detail, since I think they are both pretty core to MC and people have tripped up on them.

Smiles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, one of the key tensions of the game is that choice between keeping a high powered hero on the battlefield and retiring them to make more powerful children for the future (since that generally takes 15 years to start paying off.

Actually right now what more experienced players are finding is that XP/levelling is TOO powerful, on that if you focus on experience above all else you can end up with powerful heroes early on in the game without even having to consider much in the way of research, so they're looking at balancing that I think

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...