Jump to content
Double Fine Action Forums
Sign in to follow this  
Jack Dandy

General disappointment with Double Fine

Recommended Posts

So the Mona Lisa is only *subjectively* a masterpiece? I believe in objective views of art, I'm afraid.

Yes, the idea that the Mona Lisa is a masterpiece is 100% purely subjective. There is no such thing as an objective view on art as its impossible to separate personal feelings and personal opinion when talking about artwork. If you truly believe that one can have an objective view on individual pieces of art, then you really don't understand what objective means.

I think this is a classic misunderstanding between artists and the judging audience... "normal" people often deny the title "art" to anything which hasn't an objective quality to it (a black square from artist xy, etc.), and only accept great oil paintings / sculptures is "real" art. In my opinion thats simply wrong. It depends heavily on the life of the artist, why and in what context the art has been created, etc...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gee, and here I thought the great works of art were great for things like the incredible complexity and detail involved, pleasing color palettes, unique perspectives or subject matter, etc... all things that are objectively good, because they're going to impress you even if you know nothing about the art piece.

If you walk into an art gallery and see a white canvas with a single black dot on it, you aren't going to be impressed at all, until someone walks over and explains what it supposedly represents or tells you the artist's life story to give it a subjective value.

THAT'S why people love the great works of art and look down on pretentious modern art; someone shouldn't have to CONVINCE you to appreciate something you didn't enjoy on your own terms.

And, to get us back on topic:

The only worse thing is to try and convince people to hate or avoid things that are objectively good; you're manipulating people AND preventing them from enjoying something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gee, and here I thought the great works of art were great for things like the incredible complexity and detail involved, pleasing color palettes, unique perspectives or subject matter, etc... all things that are objectively good, because they're going to impress you even if you know nothing about the art piece.

If you walk into an art gallery and see a white canvas with a single black dot on it, you aren't going to be impressed at all, until someone walks over and explains what it supposedly represents or tells you the artist's life story to give it a subjective value.

THAT'S why people love the great works of art and look down on pretentious modern art; someone shouldn't have to CONVINCE you to appreciate something you didn't enjoy on your own terms.

.

Well I guess EVERYONE is taking a turn to be reductive this week.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure it did get derailed - it was pretty obviously a gamergate thread, the OP being mainly concerned with Tim's tweets. I'd say a big mess of people insisting that there's no misogyny/homophobia/transphobia in gaming and demanding the mythical Objective Review, is wholly on-topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*grumble* There's nothing mythical about objectivity in reviews. (You've been exposed to objective reviews your whole life -- they're generally the good ones.) Objective reviews have nothing to do with the rampant misogyny in gaming culture, either. In fact, objective reviews are what help identify such things, otherwise it's just subjective crap like: "I'm a guy, so I didn't find this offensive" (which is basically GG's entire argument -- but also, ironically, what they complained about in that infamous Bayonetta review).

Edit: Speaking of which, Bayonetta was clearly objectively sexist, and likely to cause offence amongst many people, male and female, the review just made the misstep of turning subjective for no good reason, and people seem to want to blame THAT.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
*grumble* There's nothing mythical about objectivity in reviews. (You've been exposed to objective reviews your whole life -- they're generally the good ones.) Objective reviews have nothing to do with the rampant misogyny in gaming culture, either. In fact, objective reviews are what help identify such things, otherwise it's just subjective crap like: "I'm a guy, so I didn't find this offensive" (which is basically GG's entire argument -- but also, ironically, what they complained about in that infamous Bayonetta review).

Edit: Speaking of which, Bayonetta was clearly objectively sexist, and likely to cause offence amongst many people, male and female, the review just made the misstep of turning subjective for no good reason, and people seem to want to blame THAT.

No, I wasn't trying to link objectivity with misogyny, just pointing out that they are both poles of gamergate discussions!

I'd be interested in further discussing objectivity with you, but not in this negative thread because I don't like bumping it up! (In fact, what we really need is some sort of ongoing positive thread to push it down. Hmmmm...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I regret not getting a philosophy degree and only getting a minor in it. I could have made copies and glued them to umbrellas to make shouting at strangers about their personal short comings so much more picturesque. Nay, comically redundant, even. Objectivity is false. Truth strangely enough, isn't. Before I'm unclear. Ayn Rand is not a prophet. Objectification is a part of most cultures - woman can be acceptably generalized more often verbally, socially, and in the law as objects more consistently than men both in the scope of history and on different continents. But being objective about it, is something you attempt to the best of your abilities. After all, we aren't green blooded uncaring goblins sometimes known as Vulcans in the end are we. Damn |G|G| and it's false dichotomy, and triumphant celebration of the status quo of gamers as reclusive bitter little shits. The cynics were here first, and we're a lot more objective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be very interested to read a discussion about whether objectivity (in reviews) exists, but I don't think a thread in the "Let's Talk About Double Fine" which started off as a vague complaint about Tim's views on misogyny in gaming is the best place for it.

Does anyone want to start a thread in the "Topics From The Universe Outside Of Double Fine"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would be very interested to read a discussion about whether objectivity (in reviews) exists, but I don't think a thread in the "Let's Talk About Double Fine" which started off as a vague complaint about Tim's views on misogyny in gaming is the best place for it.

Does anyone want to start a thread in the "Topics From The Universe Outside Of Double Fine"?

Yes.... JOIN US

We're actually pretty nice in off topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...