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Kuurgon

Other Classes

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Hi there fellow chalice goers,

Been playing the beta, got to say I love the game, and I'm really looking forward to the hybrid classes in the next update.

Just wanted to ask about the other proposed classes (Vanguard, Arbalist etc) and if they are still being put in the final game, as I was really looking forward to a caberjack vanguard hybrids so on and so forth.

Hope you guys are enjoying the game as much as I am :)

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Unfortunately, the fourth class was dropped during developement and combined with the Alchemist. The reason given was to make the classes more distinct from one another, and I have to say that the three remaining classes have nicely varied playstyles.

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Another reason is that adding another class explodes the number of hybrid classes:

3 Main classes = 6 Hybrid Classes (2 variants + 2 + 2)

4 Main classes = 12 Hybrid Classes (3 variants + 3 + 3 + 3)

5 Main classes = 20 Hybrid Classes (4 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 4)

etc. 3 is about the most you can have before the numbers start to get out of control.

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Another reason is that adding another class explodes the number of hybrid classes:

3 Main classes = 6 Hybrid Classes (2 variants + 2 + 2)

4 Main classes = 12 Hybrid Classes (3 variants + 3 + 3 + 3)

5 Main classes = 20 Hybrid Classes (4 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 4)

etc. 3 is about the most you can have before the numbers start to get out of control.

At least, for this version of MC. I think in a bright future, we might get another class since that still seems to be interesting to the MC Team. But don't go holding your breath until then!

Smiles

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The formula for number of hybrid classes is

m² - m

Where m is the number of main classes.

So if there were 10 classes there would be 90 subclasses.

I'm not saying this for any particular reason. Except to be geeky.

Here's a graph of Main classes on the X axis and hybrids on Y.

graff.PNG

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Another reason is that adding another class explodes the number of hybrid classes:

3 Main classes = 6 Hybrid Classes (2 variants + 2 + 2)

4 Main classes = 12 Hybrid Classes (3 variants + 3 + 3 + 3)

5 Main classes = 20 Hybrid Classes (4 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 4)

etc. 3 is about the most you can have before the numbers start to get out of control.

Interestingly, this is one of the two big reasons why they mentioned not wanting to do hybrids in the initial teamstreams. I'm still confused how we ended up with them as opposed to a more flexible primary/secondary system. (The other big issue was, for every intuitive combination like Warrior + Cleric = Paladin, there were twice as many bizarre ones like Wizard + Paladin = ???. This was well before actual class workshopping had been done, so we were working in more traditional fantasy concepts.)

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Another reason is that adding another class explodes the number of hybrid classes:

3 Main classes = 6 Hybrid Classes (2 variants + 2 + 2)

4 Main classes = 12 Hybrid Classes (3 variants + 3 + 3 + 3)

5 Main classes = 20 Hybrid Classes (4 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 4)

etc. 3 is about the most you can have before the numbers start to get out of control.

Interestingly, this is one of the two big reasons why they mentioned not wanting to do hybrids in the initial teamstreams. I'm still confused how we ended up with them as opposed to a more flexible primary/secondary system. (The other big issue was, for every intuitive combination like Warrior + Cleric = Paladin, there were twice as many bizarre ones like Wizard + Paladin = ???. This was well before actual class workshopping had been done, so we were working in more traditional fantasy concepts.)

My thought is that hybrids turned out to be the more interesting option.

Thinking about how the hybrids are designed, it's not simply the main class with a few abilities from the other class patched in. There's a bit of that, but this way enables them to design entirely new skills based around the combination of the classes, which is awesome. What excites me about the hybrids is that they (at least hopefully, from how they look) feel like they have their own style of play. Rather than being a slightly caberjack flavoured hunter, it's a hunter whose skills encourage close range attacks, for example.

Also, primary secondary would have presented other design challenges, like ensuring that enough skills from the secondary class could logically transfer to other classes, so that all different primary/secondary combos worked. Which would have meant thinking about how those skills would be transferred to other classes way earlier in the design process.

This way they could just design the 3 main classes, and then craft the hybrids using the 3 main classes as inspiration, but not being beholden to all/a certain number of the skills being transferable to other classes. They could just think 'what makes sense for this combo' and build a sensible skill tree around that, borrowing skills where appropriate, and inventing new ones where that seems more fun.

(Also, Hybrids probably came back on the table once they scoped back to 3 classes from 4 or 5)

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It was the opposite, as I recall - classes got scoped back to 3 because hybrids introduced so much complexity. Keeping in one more class (the Vanguard in this case) really meant keeping in 7 more classes.

You're right that the modular approach isn't a magic wand that makes everything simple and perfect, but it's still pretty clearly an easier process than tailoring individual skills to suit the specific primary+secondary combination. And it doesn't handcuff you extensibility-wise like this approach does; I don't expect to ever see a Vanguard unless Massive Chalice becomes a monster hit that prints money for the team simply because of the level of effort involved.

Under the circumstances of having only 3 base classes, I agree with you that creating specific hybrid version is much more interesting than a modular primary/secondary system. But if we could take it from the top, I'd still much rather have seen a greater number of base classes and leave the bulk of synergy-hunting to the player rather than the design team.

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Thanks for the replies!

That does make sense, as much as I was looking forward to the vanguards (more of a sword man myself) the 3 classes are awesome in their own right. I always have the concept art to fan over xD

Thanks dudes

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