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What am I doing wrong?

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These are imperfect Heroes. Unfortunately from what I'm gathering here the humanizing effect of this imperfection isn't so much making the Heroes more unique or individual, but less functional as game components? Am I over stating some of the reactions here?

No I don't think so. I'm not looking for perfect, I'm just looking for viable. The propensity I'm seeing for negative traits and personalities coupled with the breeding issues is not so much a challenge but a burden that detracts from the early game experience.

A new player that dives in and fails their first few attempts will either quit or more likely do some research and try again. If they then find that the game balance seems counter to their expectations frustration sets in. When you reroll the start over twenty times and see heroes presented to you time and time again with traits that are counter to their chosen profession it's it's not comical it's illogical. "Dude your a caberjack, why the heck are you and your siblings all puny, unfit intellectuals?"

I wish I had more time to reroll the start 100 times and spreadsheet the starting heroes.

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These are imperfect Heroes. Unfortunately from what I'm gathering here the humanizing effect of this imperfection isn't so much making the Heroes more unique or individual, but less functional as game components? Am I over stating some of the reactions here?

No I don't think so. I'm not looking for perfect, I'm just looking for viable. The propensity I'm seeing for negative traits and personalities coupled with the breeding issues is not so much a challenge but a burden that detracts from the early game experience.

A new player that dives in and fails their first few attempts will either quit or more likely do some research and try again. If they then find that the game balance seems counter to their expectations frustration sets in. When you reroll the start over twenty times and see heroes presented to you time and time again with traits that are counter to their chosen profession it's it's not comical it's illogical. "Dude your a caberjack, why the heck are you and your siblings all puny, unfit intellectuals?"

I wish I had more time to reroll the start 100 times and spreadsheet the starting heroes.

I do think someone from DF said they were looking into the starting hero problem.

The upcoming path supposedly has a tutorial or better explanations. I remember the thing that struck me the most after the first playthrough was how bloody useless and incoherent the advisory duo was/still is. I don't want to sound like I'm disagreeing with you.

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These are imperfect Heroes. Unfortunately from what I'm gathering here the humanizing effect of this imperfection isn't so much making the Heroes more unique or individual, but less functional as game components? Am I over stating some of the reactions here?

No I don't think so. I'm not looking for perfect, I'm just looking for viable. The propensity I'm seeing for negative traits and personalities coupled with the breeding issues is not so much a challenge but a burden that detracts from the early game experience.

A new player that dives in and fails their first few attempts will either quit or more likely do some research and try again. If they then find that the game balance seems counter to their expectations frustration sets in. When you reroll the start over twenty times and see heroes presented to you time and time again with traits that are counter to their chosen profession it's it's not comical it's illogical. "Dude your a caberjack, why the heck are you and your siblings all puny, unfit intellectuals?"

I wish I had more time to reroll the start 100 times and spreadsheet the starting heroes.

I do think someone from DF said they were looking into the starting hero problem.

In the latest update / teamstream, I think mentioned they were going to make a 'balanced start' (in terms of classes) a default option (with unbalanced as an additional I think).

In terms of balance for traits, I figure some of the next patches will continue to balance some of that out, so we'll see.

Smiles

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I just wanted to note that I'm doing much better now, mostly thanks to all of your kind advice. I will state that this game has a pretty darn steep learning curve. Well, the battle part is a learning curve. I still think the bloodlines are a bit more down to luck than skill. At least in the beginning.

Anyway, just wanted to say thanks to you people who helped me out! I'm doing much better!

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...One of the things that appealed to me, about this game is what attracted me to Rogue Legacy, imperfect "Heroes" amuses me. However there are problems that make certain traits too much of a detriment, to my experience. Shorter vision range, and low intuition being two things I'd try to avoid. But your rarely going to get ideal results. These are imperfect Heroes. Unfortunately from what I'm gathering here the humanizing effect of this imperfection isn't so much making the Heroes more unique or individual, but less functional as game components? Am I over stating some of the reactions here?

Yes those imperfect heroes approach was like dev wanted bring a touch of humor or push it to be not too serious. And that it's not working well because you have to constantly make choices related to those imperfections.

Another approach would have been to use balanced traits, that is each traits has positive and negative. For example, fat hero would have a significant HP bonus and a Speed penalty. Short sight hero would have shoter sight but the ability to hear sounds and then something like the Hunter ability doing that, and for Hunter increasing its range if he has the trait and the skill.

Another element not working that well and probably can't is that focus of traits or focus on level should be alternate options but it's not and probably can't, it's just two parallel managements.

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Maybe it's just that there need to be more, younger starting heroes.

Maybe less starting heroes, but a free new recruit every X years.

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Yeah recruit take a while for the poor result, only few level 1 that are most often crap. It's better than nothing and even required few times during first parts, but still it's weird. In my play I recently finished I researched the better recruits feature. For the time cost it's pointless. I was planning use it for my 4rth or 5th keep to change family origin. But after to have seen the result of the first recruit after this search I gave up and never recruit anymore during the campaign.

There's 5 recruits if I remember well. But it's random and I think there should be like 15 recruits and you select 5. Without the better recruit research their level would be an average of living heroes rounded up. And with the better recruit research a formula for a higher level result.

Eventually there would be an option to send 2 heroes to a quest to find recruits which would last about 3/4 years and they would have more or less the levels of those heroes. The advantage is to be done in parallel of the research. The disadvantage is lost 2 heroes during a time and not at low level as it would influence level of recruits.

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One thing that may be worth some thought is less siblings for starting heroes. Often starting pair get hobbled due to poor traits from siblings overpowering the better traits you selected for.

I'm still finding recessives seem to have too big an impact on bloodlines and the balance of traits overall seems to be slanted to favour the negative or irrelevant traits for a class. Starting heroes should have at least one appropriate trait that indicates why they are in that class.

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One way you could do it is for the first 20 years or so have events where you basically get extra heroes because they are arriving on pilgramage from the outer reaches of the kingdom. It sort of makes sense in fiction that not all the heroes would start out in the capital.

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I like this idea. I also wouldn't mind recruit requiring you to send a member of the vanguard out to search the land. Right now, it feels a lot more like a mechanic than a part of the setting.

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One way you could do it is for the first 20 years or so have events where you basically get extra heroes because they are arriving on pilgramage from the outer reaches of the kingdom. It sort of makes sense in fiction that not all the heroes would start out in the capital.

Yeah, I mentioned something like this as well. It is not perhaps the best solution, but it is a solution that potentially fits.

Smiles

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The strong need for the recruit hero option, especially early on, keeps bothering me because it feels like it goes against the grain of the bloodline part of the game. If I'm creating a legacy, then I should be building that legacy from the beginning, not depending on recruitment. It's something problematic that I can't quite put my finger on.

I guess it feels like a lot of the time it's hard to found a bloodline, while it feels like it might be better to be able to easily found a bloodline and the struggle is in keeping the bloodline alive . . . .

That's a fair point. I know that sometimes when I tried to found bloodlines I'd try to wait, a little bit and get a good "starting pair" but ... thinking back I probably just put myself into situations where I needed to recruit heroes.

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In one of my current play I had to replace a Partner of a Regent, the game offered me no choice. I checked my rosters of active heroes which was like 10+ if not 15 and from 3 Keeps.

I wondered if it was a bug or because she was too old (with longlife trait) but gave up. Later I recruited and quoted all recruits was suddenly proposed to this Regent.

Much later in another of my current play I finally realize there was some incest not allowed rule (hadn't quoted it before because of using keeps from same Bloodline). So I wondered was my full roster was only child or little child of this Regent?? I don't see what's the exact rule as 3 keeps was involved. Or it was a bug.

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Much later in another of my current play I finally realize there was some incest not allowed rule (hadn't quoted it before because of using keeps from same Bloodline). So I wondered was my full roster was only child or little child of this Regent?? I don't see what's the exact rule as 3 keeps was involved. Or it was a bug.

As far as I know, cousins are Ok to marry, but not closer than that.

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Much later in another of my current play I finally realize there was some incest not allowed rule (hadn't quoted it before because of using keeps from same Bloodline). So I wondered was my full roster was only child or little child of this Regent?? I don't see what's the exact rule as 3 keeps was involved. Or it was a bug.

As far as I know, cousins are Ok to marry, but not closer than that.

Second cousins

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Second cousins

In 0.85, I've had an All-alchemist game, with only one bloodline, and I was marrying cousins.

Has it changed in 0.86?

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Second cousins

In 0.85, I've had an All-alchemist game, with only one bloodline, and I was marrying cousins.

Has it changed in 0.86?

I'm close to finish a replay with Alchemists only, but I took care to use 4 different Bloodlines through first characters and recruits. Then I believed they was bringing more genetic diversity. I didn't though one second about cousins marriage possible problem.

After to have read the post answering OP I'm not sure it changed many thing. From this answer it seems a new character doesn't bring with him any past genetic diversity, this past genetic diversity starts only with the first marriages and childs you have in your play. That's why a new recruit took later in the game won't have much genetic weight and why use recruits/new characters of same Bloodline or of different Bloodlines won't change anything, the only point is their traits they have. At opposite of new generations that will also have genetics weights coming from their genealogy in your play.

For cousins marriage that could be why I still don't understand why there's a lack of Partners sometime.

For me it hardly explain the case where I had no partner despite I had already 3 keeps and from different Bloodline if I remember well, and 10+ actives. I didn't found back the save, in fact I didn't found in what parallel replay it was because I have 4 running.

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