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Jallen

Dev's Play

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Saw the last 2 episodes. My thoughts:

- Episode 5: Really liked John Remoro's commentary, and the cuts helped keep the flow going. The source material that accompanied the commentary was great too. My only issues are that the game had graphical enhancements compared to the normal version so it wasn't always clear when Romero was pointing at some special effect how much it was part of the original game or not, and that there were some technical stuff that JP LeBreton was aware about how Doom was made but was never explained to the viewer. Not sure why the videos were split by level too since the conversation was pretty much unrelated, but that's pretty trivial. Overall it was a pretty good episode.

- Episode 6: It was really funny to see DF's reactions to the various tricks showcased, and the tidbits of technical explanations were really cool. I really wish that the speedrunner would have practiced beforehand though because some parts were really painful to watch because of it. Unfortunately Psychonauts probably wasn't the best game for this since there was about 3-4 types of glitches constantly repeated, but I'd really like to see the same type of demonstration with other games.

I'd give my overall review, but the last part of episode 5 is still missing. When is it coming up?

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Saw the last 2 episodes. My thoughts:

- Episode 5: Really liked John Remoro's commentary, and the cuts helped keep the flow going. The source material that accompanied the commentary was great too. My only issues are that the game had graphical enhancements compared to the normal version so it wasn't always clear when Romero was pointing at some special effect how much it was part of the original game or not, and that there were some technical stuff that JP LeBreton was aware about how Doom was made but was never explained to the viewer. Not sure why the videos were split by level too since the conversation was pretty much unrelated, but that's pretty trivial. Overall it was a pretty good episode.

- Episode 6: It was really funny to see DF's reactions to the various tricks showcased, and the tidbits of technical explanations were really cool. I really wish that the speedrunner would have practiced beforehand though because some parts were really painful to watch because of it. Unfortunately Psychonauts probably wasn't the best game for this since there was about 3-4 types of glitches constantly repeated, but I'd really like to see the same type of demonstration with other games.

I'd give my overall review, but the last part of episode 5 is still missing. When is it coming up?

Ep5 - That was the version of Doom that Romero had installed on his computer so that's what we shot with. We had JP play chocolate Doom in the intro to provide a little contrast between the two versions, since that part was shot after the Romero interview. It was our understanding that JP knew everything to know about Doom, and we hoped that he would tease some fresh info out of Romero. Much of this stuff is well documented in the "Masters of Doom" book and other interviews. We really wanted Romero to get technical in his discussion, so we apologize if there wasn't enough context for some of the topics.

The splits in the episodes came from them feeling very compartmentalized. In addition, our Youtube retention stats show a steep drop off in viewers after the first few minutes of a video (we also see a huge dip during the opening credits, which I find hilarious). By splitting them up we hoped it would encourage more people to jump around in the series rather than just balking at a two and half hour video and giving up.

Ep6 - Stephen has many work and school related responsibilities in his life and didn't have the time to really drill himself on the game before making the trip, which was also on short notice. There are runners with better times out there, but we wanted Stephen because he found many of the techniques used in running the game.

Ep5 Bonus is in the works. It's very complicated and requires more post production work than the others. It will launch within the next two weeks along with download links for all the episodes in the series.

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Thanks Levering for the detailed explanation! It's always great to hear about what happens behind the scenes, and I think Dev's Play is a great series for the same reason. I hope you liked my feedback too. Looking forward to episode 5 bonus! :)

By the way, just to clarify a detail, I think it was a really good idea to have a technical discussion with Romero with someone knowledgeable, and most of the technical terms were amazingly well explained in the annotations (it must have been a pretty hard job to do). It was only the Doom terminology that got lost on me. For example, during the conversation they could casually say things like "E1M5" or something like that, and the only reason I knew it was the level's codename was because I'd heard speedrunners use the same acronyms.

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It's all wrapped up! Here's a highlight vid and the bonus episode featuring a demake of Bioshock's "Arcadia" in Doom 2 -

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Ahh... so the delay on the bonus episode was to make the Bioshock footage match the Doom footage. Great job on that! It was super interesting to see a demake by the same level designer and witness how similar it is to the original despite the engine's limitations. Really loved Romero's comment on how modern game developers are just remaking Doom over and over again!

As for my overall review of the season, I'd say that I was really surprised to see how each episode felt completely unique and could have spawned an entire series each. This is very innovative, especially considering that we're talking about a documentary series. I also really enjoyed the high quality post-production work that was put in each episode. My favorite episodes from best to worst are 5, 1, 4, 6, 3 and 2, the latter being the only episode I didn't like. The only big general negative that I have is that there were a lot of moments where an episode would suddenly become boring and tedious because the developers would stop saying anything that was related to their professional careers - which is exactly why I didn't like episode 2 because it was entirely like this. As for the biggest strength, I think it is that the format of the show gave the opportunity to game developers to comment on stuff that they would probably never have commented on in a normal interview.

This is a really cool series and I hope there will be a season 2 in the future!

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I haven't seen an announcement for this special episode for some strange reason...

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Will watch later.

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Thanks, SmashManiac. Admittedly, this one snuck up on a lot of us here too.

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Just finished watching. Quite needlessly long in my opinion because of the on-the-fly translation was kept most of the time, but it was really interesting to hear IGA's anecdotes about the development of Symphony of the Night, especially about the level and art design! I'll definitively keep in mind the "make placeholders look final" and the "programmer must showcase a no-damage strategy" tips myself!

Thank you very much to everybody involved in the making of this video!

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the castlevania one was awesome!! so unexpected. but so cool! thanks guys thanks anna!! well done all around!

my takeaway from it was not to overdirect (not that Im in a position to)- let creative people run wild to an extent and they will take it upon themselves to do a great job and take it in unexpected directions. Also the importance of extras and fun stuff stuck in.

Im always so surprised at how wacky japanese game designers are, something that society, companies and school here doesnt seem to try to cultivate at all but still its undeniably there.

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I'm watching the Castlevania episode right now. I'm laughing at the part when at about 18:53 when Igarashi explains how they showed Richter at Tokyo game show even though Alucard is the main character, which confused some people, and he laughs and says "there wasn't much thought put into it." Then the translator at about 19:44 starts translating his answer as "for us, we thought it would be interesting to have a demo as the old character and then later in the actual game have a whole new character, and that would be a big surprise, a big reveal," which was not really a translation of what Igarashi said. And so I laughed that 2PP left up the subtitle for "so there wasn't much thought put into it" during that part.

xD

I know translation is hard and you can't really remember everything a speaker said word-for-word when you're translating on the fly like that, but I felt the translator did sort of change or embellish what Igarashi actually said from time to time in a way that was kinda weird (e.g. when Igarashi gets competitive and says "I'm gonna beat this guy no matter what!" the translator embellishes with things like, "like a real gamer!" and "like a man!" which was weird... among other such embellishments...), so I appreciated having the subtitles as well.

*edit*

Just finished the episode. That was good! I actually never expected that DF would have a famous japanese dev come onto devs play, so that was really cool and surprising! I also learned a lot of things about this game that I never knew before! Not just trivia, but content that I never knew before. =]

Probably my favorite thing that Igarashi said was that he imposed an iron rule that anyone who created a boss battle had to be able to demonstrate that the boss could be defeated without losing a single hit point. That is a really cool and important rule. I think if a player is really highly skilled at a game, they should be able to achieve a flawless victory. I've never been a fan of unavoidables or being forced to soak damage. You can tank it if you want to, but finesse should always be possible.

Thanks, DF!

MIYAMOTO NEXT!!! ;-)

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which was not really a translation of what Igarashi said. And so I laughed that 2PP left up the subtitle for "so there wasn't much thought put into it" during that part.

Presumably the same guy did the subtitled translation as well afterwards, no? In that case he would have corrected himself, even at the cost of making himself seem a bit silly. which is cool.

yeah...some of the stuff is very improvised and changes how igarashi talks and his whole personality. it does feel like he misunderstands some of it and tries to cover up by being really confident, unnecessarily. but thats a reaaally hard situation to be in I reckon - he has to make it interesting for both igarashi and anna and theres pacing and stuff. and wine. japanese is hard dude.

If there hadnt been subtitles Id have an issue with it possibly.

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Presumably the same guy did the subtitled translation as well afterwards, no? In that case he would have corrected himself, even at the cost of making himself seem a bit silly. which is cool.

Maybe? I honestly don't know!

yeah...some of the stuff is very improvised and changes how igarashi talks and his whole personality. it does feel like he misunderstands some of it and tries to cover up by being really confident, unnecessarily. but thats a reaaally hard situation to be in I reckon - he has to make it interesting for both igarashi and anna

Why does he have to "make it interesting"? I didn't have a problem with him asking his own questions, or adding sub-questions to get more elaboration out of iga/anna, or even interjecting with his own thoughts or making his own jokes, but what he seemed to do that was a little bit weird to me was to add his own thoughts to translations AS IF they were part of what Iga said, and I feel like that is an odd thing to do. When it comes to just translating what the person sitting right next to you just said, I don't see any reason to "make it interesting". Just tell them what he said. If you can't remember word for word, or if it doesn't really translate into english smoothly, then translate the gist and leave it at that. But adding your own embellishments and jokes to what they said is putting words in their mouth. Maybe Iga doesn't really care, but if someone were taking liberties when translating MY words by adding in jokes or subtext that I never said, even if it was harmless little stuff, I would feel at least a little weird about it.

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I didnt mean that the added stuff was actually _working_ that great. I dont think that stuff makes much sense either, but the subtitles makes up for it as they are pretty spot on.

But its probably why he did it, and I can appreciate that its a tough job to do on the fly.

Ok. so if you were invited to a studio overseas to talk about your stuff, and there was a translator dude (which he isnt by the way...I mean, thats probably just part of his actual job right?) doing his best (maybe not perfectly) and correct subtitles showing what youre actually saying...youd be a little miffed. well...

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I didnt mean that the added stuff was actually _working_ that great. I dont think that stuff makes much sense either, but the subtitles makes up for it as they are pretty spot on.

But its probably why he did it, and I can appreciate that its a tough job to do on the fly.

Ok. so if you were invited to a studio overseas to talk about your stuff, and there was a translator dude (which he isnt by the way...I mean, thats probably just part of his actual job right?) doing his best (maybe not perfectly) and correct subtitles showing what youre actually saying...youd be a little miffed. well...

Yes and no.

Would the final video bother me? Not really. The subtitles showing the closer translation make that part better.

What I would feel uncomfortable about is the non-video part. The social part, before the video. Realizing that I was sitting on a couch between these two people, and my translator was adding a bunch of extra thoughts and jokes to my statements that are not things that I said or jokes that I made. What if I don't like the jokes he was making and attributing to me? Not that they were offensive jokes or anything, but that's not me talking. But the other person on the couch doesn't know that I didn't say those things. I would feel uncomfortable knowing that, before the final video came out, the people who had been in attendance at that social event had received the on-the-fly translation and were thinking that I said things I didn't, made jokes that I didn't, or had a certain personality that I didn't. It's the social part that would make me feel weird more so than the subtitled video.

And "miffed" isn't the word I would use, since that implies "angry". It would just make me feel slightly uncomfortable.

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This seems to contain claimed music - was really looking forward to watch this...

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The soundtrack of Symphony of the Night always gets muted on Twitch's VODs, so it's probably the same issue here for YouTube. Really annoying.

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They seem to be working together so he must be decently comfortable/used to it...at least lets hope so. :)

man I wanna know who did the subs now. I just assumed it was the same guy but it IS a little strange to go so over the top and then completely dial it back for the subs...

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This seems to contain claimed music - was really looking forward to watch this...

th_devsplay_yt_claim_zpstlwndzad.png

The soundtrack of Symphony of the Night always gets muted on Twitch's VODs, so it's probably the same issue here for YouTube. Really annoying.

Are people still having this issue? I never encountered this problem....

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Yes the problem with the "region lock" still applies in Gernany.

So I'm still not able to watch the episode (I know I could use a different proxy but meh -.- )

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SME claims the music and doesn't allow the viewing of it on "certain sites", which apparently includes

. And then they suggest viewing on youtube (wasn't that link to youtube already?) which doesn't work for me. (video on /watch?v=bqheYYeA4k4 displays "60fps" video at about 1-0.1fps for me...)

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Apparently Iga's appearance on devs play was no coincidence. He's getting his name out there for a reason!

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/243131/QA_Castlevanias_Koji_Igarashi_returns_with_new_game_Bloodstained.php

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/iga/bloodstained-ritual-of-the-night

Apparently the kickstarter video was shot by 2PP (nice special effects on the bats!), so that might explain how this devs play "fell into Double Fine's lap" ;-)

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Indeed, we made the Kickstarter video in many ways to facilitate doing a Devs Play with Iga. The opportunity to write a pitch for a new Iga game is amazing of course, but part of our agreement was that we would get to shoot the Devs Play. I really wanted that to happen.

The video was rushed due to the time restraints and other commitments we have, but i'm glad it exists out there for people to see. If there was another weeks time I would have fixed a lot of little issues and added more factoids. The project was huge and unwieldy though, and many changes would cause glitches or induce day-long render times.

Many people complain about the translation being left in the video with the subs. That was a decision made for a number of reasons.

1. Ben Judd is a somewhat known personality in game culture. He has a unique personality and I'm grateful for having him translate for us. He knows Iga well, and many embellishments he makes to the translation are there to add more personality, rather than translating literally.

2. I wanted people to be able to follow along while working. Many people work while something plays on a second screen and don't pay total attention to it. I wanted them to be able to listen without being totally lost.

3. Tons of cuts in the video would have devalued the gameplay capture. While it would have increased the pace, the game capture would have been skipping all over the place, and part of our motivation behind Devs Play is to present high quality capture to showcase the game and create the feeling of hanging out with the developers in the room. There are cuts in the piece to be sure, but they exist during non-gameplay parts, during new save loads, breaks to walk around, and other non-essential times.

4. Personally I think it's interesting to see how a language can be interpreted by two different people. Hearing Ben and reading the subtitles are both valuable to me. The subtitles were not created by Ben, so the translator had more time to think about how to construct them. Ben on the other hand would often be remembering huge stretches of conversation and translating them on the fly. Anyone that speaks English and Japanese can attest to how difficult it is to perform at his level, particularly after an international flight and being awake for over 30 hours.

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Wow! Thanks for taking the time to write up a nice long reply! No worries about the pitch video for Iga's new project. I thought it was totally bangin'. Cool locations, and the bat transformation was a hoot. ;-)

Also, I appreciated that you did both on-the-fly translation and subs. I had it playing on one screen while playing a game on another, so I was taking advantage of both. Thanks!

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@Paul Great work on the Iga pitch vid! hehe..he seems like a good sport. Hope youll collaborate during the project as well!

Also, I appreciated that you did both on-the-fly translation and subs.

What? Youre not going to argue about it forever?

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