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MASSIVE CHALICE Early Access Beta Patch 0.90

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MASSIVE CHALICE Early Access Beta Patch 0.90

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Hey everyone! We’re back! :D!

Hopefully you had a great holiday break. We’ve got a huge patched lined up for you with the long-awaited Hybrid Classes! Thanks for helping us hammer out these new features and thanks for supporting MASSIVE CHALICE in Early Access! :D!

HYBRID CLASSES

Starting in this patch all heroes now have a Primary Class and a Secondary Class. Your initial batch of heroes are going to be what you’re used to. We call them Pure Classes - Caberjack, Alchemist, Hunter. For the sake of this new system, a Pure Class is a character that has the same Primary and Secondary Class.

Hybrid Classes are created when you marry two heroes together that have different Primary Classes and then they have a kid or adopt. The Regent’s Primary Class becomes the baby hero’s Primary Class and the Partner’s Primary Class becomes the baby’s Secondary class.

For example, marrying a Caberjack Partner to an Alchemist Regent will produce kids that are Brewtalists. The Brewtalists fight very similarly to Alchemists (they use a Thrower and Flasks) but they have a real focus on melee combat and access to concussive Knockback Flasks that can push enemies around and stun them!

The Hybrid Class will use the Primary Class’s armor and weapons. They have a custom skill tree that is derived from the Primary Class with a combination of brand new skills and skills that are borrowed from the Secondary Class. The result is a hero that feels like a twist on the Primary Class with a bunch of new tricks!

There are 6 hybrid classes that are waiting for you to discover! Here’s the breakdown! :D!

Primary Hunter / Secondary Alchemist = TRICKSHOT

Lvl 2 NEW SKILL “Flask Shot” replaces “Follow Up” - Shoot a flask-tipped exploding shot to damage multiple enemies near the target.

Lvl 4 Alchemist “Second Items” replaces “Honed Hearing

Lvl 6 NEW SKILL “Shoot Items” replaces “Flarrow” - Attach items to crossbow bolts and send them flying from long range.

Lvl 8 NEW SKILL “Crop Duster” replaces “Shoot ‘n Scoot” - Fire an arrow that spreads seeds as it flies, leaving evasion-boosting foliage in its path.

Primary Hunter / Secondary Caberjack = ENFORCER

Lvl 2 NEW SKILL “Knockback Shot” replaces “Follow Up” - Shoot a dull crossbow bolt to knock an enemy backwards, stunning them if they collide with an object.

Lvl 4 NEW SKILL “Point Blank Shot” replaces “Put It Down” - A close-range shot that deals massive damage.

Lvl 6 Caberjack “Stand Ground” replaces “Flarrow”

Lvl 8 Caberjack “Fortify” replaces “Farsight”

Primary Alchemist / Secondary Hunter = BOOMSTRIKER

Lvl 1 NEW SKILL “Precision Flask” replaces “Flask” - Throw a smaller, more concentrated flask covering less area but dealing more damage.

Lvl 4 NEW SKILL “Aerodynamic Flasks” replaces “Spirit of the Dar Falcon” - Lightweight flasks that can be thrown super far.

Lvl 6 Hunter “Honed Hearing” replaces “The Acid Solution”

Lvl 8 Hunter “Shoot ‘n Scoot” replaces “Bees in a Bottle” - NOTE: renamed to “Boom ‘n Zoom!” :D!

Lvl 8 NEW SKILL “Smoke Bomb” replaces “Fertilizer Flask” - A smoking flask that Stealths all friendly heroes until they move, attack, or are dealt damage.

Primary Alchemist / Secondary Caberjack = BREWTALIST

Lvl 1 NEW SKILL “Knockback Flask” replaces “Flask” - Throw a weaker flask that knocks enemies away from the explosion, potentially stunning them if they collide with an object.

Lvl 2 NEW SKILL “Hack ‘n Slash” replaces “Free Throw” - Get a second (weaker) melee attack if the first one connects.

Lvl 4 Caberjack “Fury” replaces “Spirit of the Dart Falcon”

Lvl 6 Caberjack “Prime Target” repalces “Throw Items”

Lvl 8 NEW SKILL “Bladestorm” replaces “Fertilizer Flask” - An AoE spinning slash that damages all nearby enemies.

Primary Caberjack / Secondary Hunter = SHADOWJACK

Lvl 2 Hunter “Stealth” replaces “Charge”

Lvl 4 Hunter “Put it Down” replaces “Fury”

Lvl 6 NEW SKILL “Sneak Attack” replaces “Prime Target” - Attack from Stealth for tons of damage!

Lvl 8 Hunter “Honed Hearing” replaces “Fortify”

Primary Caberjack / Secondary Alchemist = BLASTCAPPER

Lvl 1 NEW SKILL “Explosive Caber” replaces “Knockback” - A melee strike that damages all enemies in a conical AoE behind the target.

Lvl 4 Alchemist “Second Item” replaces “Rebound”

Lvl 6 Alchemist “The Acid Solution” replaces “Log Jam”

Lvl 8 NEW SKILL “Beebound” replaces “Stand Ground” - Releases a small swarm of bees when the Blastcapper takes melee damage!

TACTICAL BALANCE

Alchemist Flask AoE Increase - Increased the base Alchemist’s Flask from a cross (5 tiles) to a 3x3 square (9 tiles). This makes the Alchemist feel more like a true AoE class, and allows us to give the Alchemist/Hunter (Boomstriker!) a more Focused Flask that uses the old cross style.

Alchemist Flask Accuracy Tweak - Along with the new 3x3 explosions we’ve adjusted Flask misses. When you miss a throw it can end up landing slightly farther away, but with the increased AoE you’ll end up with more hits after a miss.

Knockback Impact Adjustment - Impact Damage and Collision Damage is now identical for all knockback attacks. This is a nerf to the Ramcap Caber!

Bee Loyalty - Bees will no longer swarm onto their owner’s tile.

Hunter Skill Tree Rework:

Flarrow - Flarrow no longer blinds targets. Increased capacity from 2 to 5. This is now a purely scouting tool.

NEW SKILL “Blinding Shot” replaces “Hobbling Shot” - A direct-fire shot that blinds all nearby targets for 1 turn in a much smaller AoE compared to the old Flarrow. Capacity set at 2 per mission.

Hobbling Shot - Removed from the game.

FEATURES

Balanced Start Option - When starting a new game players can now select a “Balanced Start.” This option guarantees that you’ll get at least one of each class in your starting party.

Initial Vanguard Selection - Added the ability to select 5 Bloodlines to form your original party in the first mission. The Bloodline Database is also fully searchable so feel free to poke around the submissions from our Backers! :D!

Equipment Icons in the Deployment Screen - Added a small row of icons below each hero’s flag in the Deployment Screen. This gives you a nice idea of which weapons, armor, and items your heroes are using at a glance!

Equipment Auto-Equip - Equipment is auto-equipped to a hero. Here are the rules:

A hero comes of age - we try to figure out the “best” equipment for them.

Research complete - research of a straight upgrade has been completed. We don’t consider the Cadence weapons or armor to be straight upgrades, so you’ll have to manually equip those!

Relic bequeathed - when you give a hero a Relic it is now auto-equipped.

Losing Animatic Complete - Finished off the art for the Losing Animatic. Hopefully you never see this! :D!

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ART

Hybrid Armors - Each hybrid class now has customized visuals for base armor, advanced armor, and refined armor.

Relic Visuals - All Relics now have custom visuals. Relics are made up of a random “front” and “back” piece that are chosen when the Relic is created.

BUG FIXES

Typos! - Tons of typo fixes!

Invisible Enemy Bodies - Fixed a nasty bug that was causing some parts of an enemy’s body to turn permanently invisible.

Voice Over lines now pause while the game is paused - This is mainly for consistency! We’ve also put the VO lines into the proper category so they should respond properly to the slider in the options screen.

Buff timer fixes - Some buffs (like Kill Rage and Stun) were not stacking or falling off at the proper times. This is fixed!

Subtitle Shift - Added support to shift the subtitles around to get them into a better spot for some of our UI screens.

NULL event - Sometimes the Random Event system could get confused and serve up a weird event with the word “NULL” as the title and the body text. This could trainwreck your game! It should be fixed now.

TECHNICAL

Performance! - The game should run much better on lower end machines and graphics cards.

Strategic Performance - Added some targeted fixes to make the timeline run a lot better later in the game.

Custom Mouse Cursor for Linux - Fixed an issue that was causing the mouse cursor to improperly render on Linux.

Mac Retina Display - Improved support for switching between windowed and full screen mode on Mac Retina Displays.

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YES! I can't wait to try out the new classes :D

Also, I know I was not the first to suggest the Balanced Start but I still take credit for it because Brad posted in my thread about it :P

You guys did some great work! Happy New Year <3

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This is outstanding! Auto-equip and performance upgrade for my craptop? I thought Christmas was long over...

Hopefully the forum will find something to chew on this patch :)

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Nice! I'm excited about starting a new campaign and trying out the Hybrid classes.

I'll pour out a 40 (err, chalice?) for the ramjack caber, since caberjacks were already my LVP class before and the occasional wacky ramjack hit was the main way they occasionally made me feel cheerful, but the changes almost all sound pretty good to me.

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Woo! I haven't had much time to try the update, but on quick inspection, it runs super fast by comparison on my Linux machine :D

I'm glad to see that the game's window doesn't jump to my primary monitor when loading a new scene anymore. That one was super irritating!

Voice Over lines now pause while the game is paused - This is mainly for consistency! We’ve also put the VO lines into the proper category so they should respond properly to the slider in the options screen.

It feels to me like they don't pause properly (or a big enough chunk is lost during fade in/out to make it seem that way).

Is there any chance of getting an option so that nothing pauses when the game loses focus? I suspect that there aren't many who'd benefit from that, but if it's an easy thing, it'd certainly be appreciated by those of us who multitask whilst playing :)

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That's one meaty update there. Did the team work during christmas or what? :D

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When do we get Relic Cadence Weapons?

I am not sure those are planned. I think not having relic cadence weapons might be one of the tradeoffs to using them over the standard equip.

Smiles

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Yes, I believe the tradeoff is between using a weapon that becomes very powerful over time vs using a weapon that has some sort of special effect. Although incidentally a few of the relic weapons feel weak by the end of the game, I think, so that the tradeoff becomes less compelling.

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When do we get Relic Cadence Weapons?

I am not sure those are planned. I think not having relic cadence weapons might be one of the tradeoffs to using them over the standard equip.

Smiles

That is, to be frank, some bullshit.

The Cadence weapons are, at best, sidegrades. A benefit with a trade-off.

I don't need that benefit once my Relic weapons start one-shotting everything. Allowing relic cadence weapons keeps them relevant. Otherwise they become something of an investment trap, as the short term utility is worthless compared to developing a relic further.

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When do we get Relic Cadence Weapons?

I am not sure those are planned. I think not having relic cadence weapons might be one of the tradeoffs to using them over the standard equip.

Smiles

That is, to be frank, some bullshit.

The Cadence weapons are, at best, sidegrades. A benefit with a trade-off.

I don't need that benefit once my Relic weapons start one-shotting everything. Allowing relic cadence weapons keeps them relevant. Otherwise they become something of an investment trap, as the short term utility is worthless compared to developing a relic further.

That's not really true, I've tried many cadence weapons which have base stats that are as good or better than a standard weapon.

It is true that eventually relics outpace cadence weapons, but you'd kinda expect them to. The whole point of relics is that they take a bit of time to build up, but once they are they are extremely powerful. However, cadence weapons have the advantage of being immediately more useful, and equippable to anybody. That relic you built up isn't much good if it's stuck with a regent until they die, or if the bloodline falls, or if you've got only 3 relics and 5 people in your vanguard.

But anyway, I think the issue is that either the relics are overpowered in the late game or the cadence weapons are underpowered in the late game. I suspect the relics are overpowered, since they're not just one-shotting enemies, they're doing it with extreme ease once levelled up. And that's just a balance issue.

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Time to record a NEW EPISODE!!! Just in time for this AWESOME UPDATE!!!!

Playlist -

Come and join the family! www.youtube.com/nolic0321

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That's not really true, I've tried many cadence weapons which have base stats that are as good or better than a standard weapon.

I researched a few.

Bone Bow has piercing as a benefit, but lower range and lower min damage as a tradeoff.

Rupture Thrower has 'better stats', but far more inaccuracy and chance for catastrophic explosion misses as a tradeoff.

Ramcap caber, especially post nerf, means you always get knockback, but sometimes you don't WANT knockback. Benefit/Tradeoff.

See what I mean?

But at endgame all of them are something of a trap except maybe the Caberjack weapons.

But anyway, I think the issue is that either the relics are overpowered in the late game or the cadence weapons are underpowered in the late game. I suspect the relics are overpowered, since they're not just one-shotting enemies, they're doing it with extreme ease once levelled up. And that's just a balance issue.

Right, so the way I see it you have two options:

Make Cadence Weapons useful in comparision to endgame relics. Thereby taking some charm out of the primary power development model.

Or make them Relics, too, so eventually you can wind up with crazy alien relics if you put the time into them.

Otherwise the Cadence weapons are a trap: waste research time on something you might not use at all around endgame.

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Right, so the way I see it you have two options:

Make Cadence Weapons useful in comparision to endgame relics. Thereby taking some charm out of the primary power development model.

Or make them Relics, too, so eventually you can wind up with crazy alien relics if you put the time into them.

Otherwise the Cadence weapons are a trap: waste research time on something you might not use at all around endgame.

Or decrease the chance of relics thereby making them something to work for to keep around. I would think if you had the choice between a cadence weapon or a relic one would choose a relic and that decision should stay. There is a big focus on keeping bloodlines and having some "alien" relic that didn't originate from the family seems... alien.

By having less of a chance of a relic there is more reason for cadence weapons endgame and the desire for relics stays.

I haven't been to endgame yet so my opinion may change

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I'm with DiomedesRex on this one, but I think I'll withhold a longer opinion until I've played a bit more and seen more of the cadence weapons. Certainly with the ones I've seen, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to relic-ize, too.

Anyone have links to a good writeup on the tech tree in the game? I haven't come across any in the discussion forum, and there don't seem to be any well-filled-out wikis out there either.

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There is a big focus on keeping bloodlines and having some "alien" relic that didn't originate from the family seems... alien.

But it would originate with that family. The Bloodlines researched them, the bloodlines hacked apart horrible monsters to make them, the bloodlines used these hand-crafted weapons until they became legend, and voila: cadence relic.

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I don't think the cadence weapons will ever be relics, especially now that they've created unique relic graphics for bows, cabers and throwers.

Plus, regardless of the balance, it's pretty clear to me (and they've said it themselves) that the intention is for there to be a trade-off. So I say just make relics a bit rarer. That'd be enough to make them special and something you have to specifically nurture and put work into to get the most out of them, while cadence weapons would still have the more immediate utility.

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I think the restriction of one Relic per bloodline would be good, as long as we can trade the relic to anyone anytime.

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I don't see why Cadence weapons can't just be equivalent to Level 5 relics (in terms of damage): better than base weapon or a low level relic, worse than a high level relic. This means that they are worth the investment for the mid game, but relics eventually become the best weapon you can get.

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I think I'm with Kestrel on this one, you can't really discount the tactical benefit most cadence weapons bring. For example, the pillar tosser (or whatever it was called) for Alchemists? It creates its own cover, blocks off enemy paths (or shoehorns them into narrower spaces) and creates terrain to slam the enemies into. Played smartly, that's REALLY useful, and more than makes up for not being able to target directly on top of enemies.

And relic weapons really shouldn't reach a point where they can one-shot ANYTHING easily, or be so easy to get that you can easily have every member of a house carrying one at once.

I wouldn't be opposed to Cadence weapons having their own level-up system, however.. but it should be less raw-damage-focused than relic leveling and more about improving their tactical functions. For instance, there could be a way to upgrade the Pillar Tosser so it creates sturdier pillars, or a couple pillars in a row, or upgrade the bone bow so that damage ramps up on every subsequent enemy pierced in one shot. This could possibly be a research thing, requiring additional corpses, or maybe it could be like the relic weapons but involve killing the specific enemy type associated with the weapon?

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I don't think Cadence weapons' problem is lack of endgame viability so much as it's that their window of midgame relevance is ridiculously small. I compare it to XCOM's weapon tech. You can capture some Thin Men and research light plasma rifles right away, but that's a long research item for the start of the game. The other option is to spend a much shorter time researching laser rifles. Lasers will become obsolete eventually, but the plasma-first guy is going to have a tough time scraping out battles while his research finishes, and he may fall behind on other tech in the mean time.

My experience in Massive Chalice has been that the first relic pops up around year 50, and you've probably got a few by year 150. For my unit economy, I like to build 4 additional keeps, 2 crucibles, and 1 guild; I don't have numbers handy, but that's probably 80-100 years of research. And splash in a Recruit Heroes and item research here and there, too. By the time I feel like I can catch my breath and branch out my tech, I've already got a couple of relics cooking and still haven't upgraded my armor. This also assumes that I have the necessary Cadence corpses - you can't very well sneak in a Time Fist in if you haven't fought Twitchers yet.

It's further compounded by how quickly relics level up; I think that they get XP from both kills AND missions. (Random thought: do relics benefit from natural trainee growth right now? If the secret recipe for a maxed relic is just to hand it to a newborn and wait 15 years, that's probably an issue.) This is another spot where the mid-game sort of just doesn't exist.

Utility-oriented Cadence weapons (the cabers & the pillar thrower) are still useful if you have units along to just soak up mission XP in preparation for life in a keep or crucible. (Your other units are presumably doing all the killing in order to help generate new relics or level up their existing ones.) That's a little more specific than I'd like, but there's at least some niche to exploit there. It does make me think that the process of making a new relic may need something more to it than "kill a bunch of dudes" though.

On a tangential note, how do people feel about the ability to give multiple keeps to the same bloodline? I've turned it into a staple of my strategy in part because it makes relic handling easier, but I think it's starting to bug me, thematically. Partly because same-name marriages squick me out, and partly because of moments where the game says "Ned Stark, Regent of Winterfell has died!" and my response has to be "Okay, which Winterfell?" It also makes losing regions less impactful since it means you're unlikely to ever lose an entire family. Winterfell Alpha may have dissolved into goo, but Winterfell Bravo is still churning out Starks. I could definitely see restricting families to one keep and/or one relic, though you may need to make relics hand-off-able in order to make the restriction less punitive.

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Loaded an old save and hunters not born before the patch still get a choice between Flarrow and Hobbling Shot, is that intentional?

Similarly does the visuals apply to pre-patch relics, because if so, I can't really see it.

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Knockback Impact Adjustment - Impact Damage and Collision Damage is now identical for all knockback attacks. This is a nerf to the Ramcap Caber!

Knocking enemies into walls still seems do Tremendous damage with the Ramcap Caber!

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Earlier today I hit an advanced seed into another with the ramcap caber, both took the same amount of damage (32 if I recall correctly)

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I vote for limiting bloodlines to a single keep and a single relic. Late game relics, too stronk. And as Selke said, it's downright squicky to be able to marry first cousins, regardless of how many keeps have been granted to their parents/uncles/aunts.

Also, do we (the community) know what the knockback damage calculations are? Using a Ramcap Caber, I've hit a pair of adjacent Wrinklers into each other and dealt 43 damage to *both*. And that was in .90a!

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I hit a Cradle to a wall with a Ramcab Cabre once, and it took normal damage+9 from the wall, but EVERYWHERE ELSE the knockback damage is still calculated the old, slightly overpowered way. This makes Knockback bombs and Log Jam especially powerful.

If they wanted to just nerf ramcabs, then that's fine, but I still think these other ways are a bit too powerful as well (given that they tend to both "crit" AND stun)

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I vote for limiting bloodlines to a single keep and a single relic. Late game relics, too stronk. And as Selke said, it's downright squicky to be able to marry first cousins, regardless of how many keeps have been granted to their parents/uncles/aunts.!

I think multiple-keep is a good idea, and should not be removed, as it "protects" a Bloodline from being erased, if a keep falls.

I agree with a single-relic per bloodline, and I think it should be enough to convince the player to have one keep per bloodline, maybe 2 for the most important bloodlines.

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