Jump to content
Double Fine Action Forums
Sign in to follow this  
Laserschwert

Orchestral score?

Recommended Posts

Posted in the wishlist thread, but I'll quote myself here for the sake of discussion. I like the idea of a live recorded score but I worry "orchestral" might be the wrong direction

Also, I figured out what my thought was regarding the music: I was somehow repelled by the idea of using an orchestra, and I wasn't sure why, but I think it's because an "orchestral mix" would potentially be strings-focused, and done with a more traditional set of instruments, when I feel like the DotT score would work better if played on an eclectic mix of instruments, with much more of an emphasis on woodwinds than strings. It'd be cool if each time period was recorded with a different mix of instruments, with more strings in the past, more woodwinds in the present, more synths in the future. Throw harpsichord and pipe organ (maybe even bagpipes?) in there as needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's the instruments used in the intro up to the point where Bernard gives directions.

Orchestral:

Oboe

Clarinet

Flute

Bassoon

Strings

Choir (Used for the "portal." Could be replaced with a synth)

Harp

French Horn

Tuba

Trombone

Trumpet

Timpani

Non Orchestral:

Drums and Percussion

Picked Bass

Acoustic Bass

Human whistle

Alto Saxophone

Electric Guitar

Pipe Organ

Electric Organ

Recorder

Vibraphone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice list! Don't they have percussion and drums in orchestras, though? :-/

Anyways, you can clearly see that some real instruments would be very welcome!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nice list! Don't they have percussion and drums in orchestras, though? :-/

Anyways, you can clearly see that some real instruments would be very welcome!

Yes, but the game uses a drum kit, not the standard orchestral percussion instruments, other than the timpani.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The instrumentation is generally reminiscent of a mixture of a standard modern orchestra and a large jazz ensemble, which is understandable, since there's clear jazz influence in a lot of the soundtrack as there was in a lot of mid-20th century animation. It certainly wouldn't be a huge stretch to pair a drumkit with an orchestra, and guitars and keys (common in ensembles for musical theater, for example)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you guys think of this version?

In some ways it sounds good. In other ways I'm not too sure. Some parts need some adjusting. Like the one at 10:37. Some of the more grandiose instruments are way too loud and overshadow the main melody.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What do you guys think of this version?

In some ways it sounds good. In other ways I'm not too sure. Some parts need some adjusting. Like the one at 10:37. Some of the more grandiose instruments are way too loud and overshadow the main melody.

Yeah, that's my version. Granted, I made that a decade ago, so I don't think I'd do it the same way again today ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What do you guys think of this version?

In some ways it sounds good. In other ways I'm not too sure. Some parts need some adjusting. Like the one at 10:37. Some of the more grandiose instruments are way too loud and overshadow the main melody.

Yeah, that's my version. Granted, I made that a decade ago, so I don't think I'd do everything the same way again today ;)

Wait... waitwaitwait.... YOU made that?

...now I'm confused...

So... was this like... uh...

What's the story behind this version? Was this an official... thing?...or what?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Was this an official... thing?...or what?
What makes you think that?

Cuz... well... it sounds like an official OST...

like this one:

or this one:

Did you make all of these? o.O

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Was this an official... thing?...or what?
What makes you think that?

Cuz... well... it sounds like an official OST...

like this one:

or this one:

Did you make all of these? o.O

Yeah, those are all my versions. Of course they're not official... I made them for my "LucasArts Soundtracks"-site (as seen in my signature), back in the days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Was this an official... thing?...or what?
What makes you think that?

Cuz... well... it sounds like an official OST...

like this one:

or this one:

Did you make all of these? o.O

Yeah, those are all my versions. Of course they're not official... I made them for my "LucasArts Soundtracks"-site (as seen in my signature), back in the days.

All this time... I've been fooled... my world view... has been shattered...

...I don't know what to believe in anymore...

I think I'm just gonna sit down in a dark and lonely corner and cry TT.TT

I gotta admit tho, they ARE pretty great versions. ^^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So anyway,...

When I played the Monkey Island 2 SE I was really disappointed that the iMuse was pretty watered down. Like in Woodtick where entering a new area from the main hub would always play the exact same transition. I think some versions even had no transitions at all. Even when you talk to the three sleeping pirates it doesn't add an accordion to the music the way it did in the original. It only plays a slightly jazzier trumpet. It's quite a bummer.

So I really hope DoTT SE will have all the same transitions and little touches that DoTT had. Granted, the game didn't have anything as complex as woodtick's music to begin with ...but still.

Personally, I think electronic music that sounds like real instruments instead of orchestrated is still good. If they do it the way MI2 SE does then I'm perfectly fine with that. That soundtrack was great (Well, except the iMuse slip-ups, of course).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very few people even noticed IMUSE. So it's not really that big of a deal as long as the main tunes are intact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a big deal to some of us. I really love parts of the DOTT music, and it would be a massive shame if iMuse wasn't honoured properly.

That said, I think ShyGuy is overstating it. I don't recall losing ALL the transitions in certain pieces of music.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed. I was skeptical that MI2:SE's music would be able to do what they did in MI2 at ALL, I thought they would compromise (mainly for budget reasons) but they actually did a very good job of keeping the spirit of the thing intact (even if, for example in Woodtick, they didn't have quite the same -number- of transitions.) The only piece of music where I really don't think they quite got the flow of the thing correct was the cutscene transition from stabbing largo to talking with the voodoo lady, which missed some stuf that made it more abrubt than it should have been.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's a big deal to some of us. I really love parts of the DOTT music, and it would be a massive shame if iMuse wasn't honoured properly.

That said, I think ShyGuy is overstating it. I don't recall losing ALL the transitions in certain pieces of music.

No, I meant that some versions of the game had no transitions. I think it might have been the Xbox 360 version but I heard that that has been fixed in an update by now.

Woodtick's main hub's transitions are still the same in all versions tho.

Although remember how horribly out of synch the original SE's bone dance vocals were? That should really have been fixed before release.

And then the singing... ugh! I hope nothing like that happens to DoTT SE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was impressed with the MI2:SE music (I have the PC version) - I honestly didn't have high hopes for it and expected them to take a lot of shortcuts, so I was pleasantly surprised with the outcome. DOTT has quite a lot of short transitions that play when you leave a room and come back out into the motel hallway, but I'm most interested in seeing how they tackle the cutscene tracks. I love how carefully the cutscene music has been arranged in the original - the mood changes in all the right places, sometimes a snippet of theme music will be played to accompany whichever character is speaking at the time, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's a big deal to some of us. I really love parts of the DOTT music, and it would be a massive shame if iMuse wasn't honoured properly.

That said, I think ShyGuy is overstating it. I don't recall losing ALL the transitions in certain pieces of music.

No, I meant that some versions of the game had no transitions. I think it might have been the Xbox 360 version but I heard that that has been fixed in an update by now.

Woodtick's main hub's transitions are still the same in all versions tho.

Although remember how horribly out of synch the original SE's bone dance vocals were? That should really have been fixed before release.

And then the singing... ugh! I hope nothing like that happens to DoTT SE.

A bug was introduced without audio department knowledge just prior to shipping--a TON of care was put into not only representing the original iMuse versions, but also trying to represent the feeling and intention of the original design with the new opportunities granted by the use of audio instead of MIDI.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's a big deal to some of us. I really love parts of the DOTT music, and it would be a massive shame if iMuse wasn't honoured properly.

That said, I think ShyGuy is overstating it. I don't recall losing ALL the transitions in certain pieces of music.

No, I meant that some versions of the game had no transitions. I think it might have been the Xbox 360 version but I heard that that has been fixed in an update by now.

Woodtick's main hub's transitions are still the same in all versions tho.

Although remember how horribly out of synch the original SE's bone dance vocals were? That should really have been fixed before release.

And then the singing... ugh! I hope nothing like that happens to DoTT SE.

A bug was introduced without audio department knowledge just prior to shipping--a TON of care was put into not only representing the original iMuse versions, but also trying to represent the feeling and intention of the original design with the new opportunities granted by the use of audio instead of MIDI.

I'm sure everyone worked very hard on it but I'd be lying if I said the final product is perfect. Sorry.

It's not like it's bad either. In fact, it's very good. There are just a few things here and there that could be fixed or improved to make it a truly amazing remake.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm still unsure what bits you're referring to, ShyGuyXXL.

Uhm... I already talked about it in another thread and you even replied to it. xD But sure, here it is again:

1. Entering an area in woodtick from the main hub always plays the same transition no matter which part of the music you're at.

2. When you talk to the 3 pirates an accordion should be playing, adding another unique tune to the music but it's not there.

3. The timing of the animations during some of the cutscenes is off (Like when Guybrush steps on the rake or when he faces LeChuck in the dream sequence) In the original version these scenes would synch up with the music but in the SE they sometimes play too quickly.

This results in some unmatching music or awkward moments.

Like in the dream, when LeChuck sneaks up on Guybrush and shouts "Boo!" Guybrush turns around way too early and is looking at him for a few solid seconds but doesn't react until LeChuck says his line.

At the end of the same scene the background is supposed to turn back to normal the second Guybrush wakes up but instead it stays red while he screams, gets up and says "What a dream!" and THEN it fades back to normal.

Or the part where you meet the woman in the LeChuck costume and Guybrush freaks out. The "shocking" part of the music plays way too late so instead of accompanying Guybrush's shock it instead accompanies the woman taking off her mask.

There are more things like that but you get the gist.

4. The opening credits are missing for whatever reason. This also eliminates the smooth transition between the end of the opening credits and the campfire music.

There's probably more but this is all I can think of right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The biggest issue I had with MI2:SE's "iMuse" representation was that, for example in Woodtick, themes would not fade into each other but switch abruptly instead. Like going from the Inn screen to inside Largo's room. There should have been a crossfade between lead instruments, but it just switches abruptly. An equivalent in DOTT would be where when Bernard is walking around the mansion a hi hat starts playing, and when he stops walking the hi-hat fades away until he starts walking again. I'd hope DF wouldn't make the same mistake that LA did in MI2:SE and just stop or start the hi-hat abruptly which wouldn't be very seamless and would be very transparent.

The other thing they royally screwed up was the classic MT-32 soundtrack with not all tracks playing the proper instruments.

Still, the fact that they tried and put that much effort into it at all is admirable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The biggest issue I had with MI2:SE's "iMuse" representation was that, for example in Woodtick, themes would not fade into each other but switch abruptly instead. Like going from the Inn screen to inside Largo's room. There should have been a crossfade between lead instruments, but it just switches abruptly. An equivalent in DOTT would be where when Bernard is walking around the mansion a hi hat starts playing, and when he stops walking the hi-hat fades away until he starts walking again. I'd hope DF wouldn't make the same mistake that LA did in MI2:SE and just stop or start the hi-hat abruptly which wouldn't be very seamless and would be very transparent.

The other thing they royally screwed up was the classic MT-32 soundtrack with not all tracks playing the proper instruments.

Still, the fact that they tried and put that much effort into it at all is admirable.

Yeah, it can't be that complicated to make another layer of the music fade in, can it?

Makes me wonder why these little nuances weren't in MI2 SE. Did they run out of time? Were they not aware of it? Did they have technical issues?

I'd like to know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It definitely needs to be able to transition and preserve the midi music.

DOTT has a very unique and awesome style of music.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It definitely needs to be able to transition and preserve the midi music.

DOTT has a very unique and awesome style of music.

It's very elaborate too. The music during all of the cutscenes was made into several different parts that would play longer or shorter depending on how fast the subtitles were. If you made them really slow it would repeat certain parts of the music until you got to a certain part of the dialog/cutscene. You can also see this if you grab the ScummVM window and hold it in place. The game will pause but the music will keep going so it will eventually just repeat one little part of the music until you get to the next part.

Sometimes it's more simple but sometimes it's pretty elaborate.

This was also present (and possibly even more elaborate) in MI2

One particularly clever thing I noticed is when Dr. Fred tells Bernard "Step 1: Find plans! Step 2: Save world! Step 3: Get out of my house!"

For each step the music loop would increase in pitch a bit. They could'vemade it all into one part but they went the extra mile.

All of that effort just because the player could adjust the subtitle speed.

What I'm wondering now is whether they'll keep this for the remake or if all of the cutscenes will have a fixed pace that goes by the duration of the speech. Probably the latter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...