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matthansen

Day of the Tentacle: Special Edition Wish List Features

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I decided to google "iMuse demonstration" to remind myself of the complexities of it, and found this video, which is 1 of 3:

The description said they were to accompany an article, but this Peter Silk idiot didn't post a link to the article (and neither did the commenter complaining about how long it took to find it!). After finally finding the address for it in a footnote of a book on Google Books, and then going through Wayback Machine because it no longer exists, I found the article:

http://web.archive.org/web/20100506064206/http://nukezilla.com/2010/05/03/unconvinced-pete-are-game-soundtracks-being-neglected

I decided to check out this foolish writer on his Twitter link, only to find out his handle SurplusGamer was also out of date! After a search on twitter, I finally found out what name this mysterious Peter Silk aka SurplusGamer goes by...

KestrelPi!

Anyway, anyone unsure why moving iMuse to live recording samples is difficult should check the article and videos out.

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Thanks for the share, I hadn't seen that before (and thanks for making the article and videos, KestrelPi). I haven't had a chance to read the article and videos in depth (it's 9AM here, and I actually haven't been to bed yet o_o), but it should be noted that other companies have made iMuse style transitions as well (without actually being called iMuse of course, and likely using different methods since iMuse is patented by LucasArts). Andrew Langley got iMuse style transitions working in the Telltale Tool, and Telltale's games started using them in Wallace & Gromit's Grand Adventures.

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Some great examples in those videos. I like the comment on video #2:

"The developers of the music in this game were 2 full time programmers who put a lot of time into programming these transitions. The stated that they wouldn't do it again, thought, because almost no one noticed it :)"

It's true that iMuse only partially worked in the Amiga version -- we never got those smooth transitions in Woodtick (there was no music there, for one thing).

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I guess that is what I never understood. Why would someone want to hear the old music?

It's not like the music is totally different. The focus on remastering the music was to replace any cheesy synth tracks with real instruments. This was mostly the piano and guitar parts. Peter wanted to re-record those, and it had been bugging him for a while before this opportunity came up. Is the nostalgia in the how the cheesy synth instruments sounded? The tracks that we had done with the symphony are amazing. I guess I just don't see why those wouldn't be the preference. I am just trying to wrap my head around this.

We want to release a soundtrack at some point, but that was not part of the original deal. It is something we have been discussing for a very long time, so maybe some day.

Adding support for DLC into an engine from 1998 is a lot harder than you might think. It would have pushed out the release date, and I am not sure the value added would have been worth it.

Hi Matt.

You don't sound like an adventure gamer. I guess that's ok.

The reasons why almost any player would want both soundtracks available are 1) because the original game in its original form has been unavailable for over a decade; 2) you added to the original soundtrack, and it's interesting to hear what you changed; and 3) some people might prefer the original soundtrack -- "cheesy" or no -- because they believe it to sound better, i.e. because they don't like the additions that you made to an existing work.

I recommend that you be very careful with the attitude that anything you guys do is an objectively positive improvement to an existing work. An orchestral version of the soundtrack may sound more impressive to you because it's "real" like a movie or something, but the Grim we loved had "cheesy" synth music and that's the music we know. It's an aesthetic in itself.

Here's how I recommend you think about it: Imagine you released a new "definitive" DVD of Casablanca that included only a colorization and no B&W. That's an objective improvement, right? Who would want B&W, if given the choice? http://www.rogerebert.com/interviews/casablanca-gets-colorized-but-dont-play-it-again-ted

Please do not sell a remaster without including 100% of the original content. I am already regretting that I bought Grim for this very reason.

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I decided to google "iMuse demonstration" to remind myself of the complexities of it, and found this video, which is 1 of 3:

The description said they were to accompany an article, but this Peter Silk idiot didn't post a link to the article (and neither did the commenter complaining about how long it took to find it!). After finally finding the address for it in a footnote of a book on Google Books, and then going through Wayback Machine because it no longer exists, I found the article:

http://web.archive.org/web/20100506064206/http://nukezilla.com/2010/05/03/unconvinced-pete-are-game-soundtracks-being-neglected

I decided to check out this foolish writer on his Twitter link, only to find out his handle SurplusGamer was also out of date! After a search on twitter, I finally found out what name this mysterious Peter Silk aka SurplusGamer goes by...

KestrelPi!

Anyway, for anyone unsure why moving iMuse to live recording samples should check the article and videos out.

Hahaha, I wondered why someone had posted a comment with a link, today. Yeah, that was a weird thing where I didn't have a link, then by the time I had the link I forgot to add it to the video. A few people who wrote about iMUSE since took the liberty of linking my videos uncredited in their articles, I recall.

About the original article... I don't entirely agree with my original argument any more. I think it has become more common in the intervening time to introduce interactive elements into scores, and I feel like a lot more work has been done in this area in the last few years. It's hard to get anything approaching as sophisticated as MI2 era iMUSE, but more effort is being made. And MI2:SE's soundtrack turned out great, as it happened - so it's not impossible, for sure.

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You don't sound like an adventure gamer. I guess that's ok.

Why is it you feel you must judge the staff on their adventure gaming-ness? It seems to be something you have done to all the staff that you have criticisms for or who happen to have a different opinion to you. What gives you the right to decide that? And even if he isn't so what? Being an adventure gamer doesn't instantly make a person a better designer of any game regardless of genre. Have your differences of opinions but keep the insults like this to your self.

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I guess that is what I never understood. Why would someone want to hear the old music?

It's not like the music is totally different. The focus on remastering the music was to replace any cheesy synth tracks with real instruments. This was mostly the piano and guitar parts. Peter wanted to re-record those, and it had been bugging him for a while before this opportunity came up. Is the nostalgia in the how the cheesy synth instruments sounded? The tracks that we had done with the symphony are amazing. I guess I just don't see why those wouldn't be the preference. I am just trying to wrap my head around this.

We want to release a soundtrack at some point, but that was not part of the original deal. It is something we have been discussing for a very long time, so maybe some day.

Adding support for DLC into an engine from 1998 is a lot harder than you might think. It would have pushed out the release date, and I am not sure the value added would have been worth it.

Hi Matt.

You don't sound like an adventure gamer. I guess that's ok.

The reasons why almost any player would want both soundtracks available are 1) because the original game in its original form has been unavailable for over a decade; 2) you added to the original soundtrack, and it's interesting to hear what you changed; and 3) some people might prefer the original soundtrack -- "cheesy" or no -- because they believe it to sound better, i.e. because they don't like the additions that you made to an existing work.

I recommend that you be very careful with the attitude that anything you guys do is an objectively positive improvement to an existing work. An orchestral version of the soundtrack may sound more impressive to you because it's "real" like a movie or something, but the Grim we loved had "cheesy" synth music and that's the music we know. It's an aesthetic in itself.

Here's how I recommend you think about it: Imagine you released a new "definitive" DVD of Casablanca that included only a colorization and no B&W. That's an objective improvement, right? Who would want B&W, if given the choice? http://www.rogerebert.com/interviews/casablanca-gets-colorized-but-dont-play-it-again-ted

Please do not sell a remaster without including 100% of the original content. I am already regretting that I bought Grim for this very reason.

Is there anything you like about DF's Grim?

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Sure. I like the new soundtrack and updated graphics a lot. The developer commentary seems vain, but it's interesting.

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Sure. I like the new soundtrack and updated graphics a lot. The developer commentary seems vain, but it's interesting.

Cool, thanks :)

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Have your differences of opinions but keep the insults like this to your self.

Looks like the insults won't be flowing any longer:

Personally, I'm done with Double Fine forever. I will never visit the forum again.

Ciao.

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Have your differences of opinions but keep the insults like this to your self.

Looks like the insults won't be flowing any longer:

Personally, I'm done with Double Fine forever. I will never visit the forum again.

Ciao.

Aww. He was kind of nice and honest for a troll.

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Hmmm...

Anywayyy, let's get this DOTT wishlist thread back on track!

In lieu of or in addition to any making of vids, I'd be very interested to read blog posts, dev diaries or forum threads from the people working on this Special Edition!

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Oooh, Can we get a full scan of Tim Schafer's freewrite notebook?

I would LOVE that, but I bet that would include a lot of random thoughts, probably personal, that he wouldn't be super keen to share :)

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I guess that is what I never understood. Why would someone want to hear the old music?

It's not like the music is totally different. The focus on remastering the music was to replace any cheesy synth tracks with real instruments. This was mostly the piano and guitar parts. Peter wanted to re-record those, and it had been bugging him for a while before this opportunity came up. Is the nostalgia in the how the cheesy synth instruments sounded? The tracks that we had done with the symphony are amazing. I guess I just don't see why those wouldn't be the preference. I am just trying to wrap my head around this.

We want to release a soundtrack at some point, but that was not part of the original deal. It is something we have been discussing for a very long time, so maybe some day.

Adding support for DLC into an engine from 1998 is a lot harder than you might think. It would have pushed out the release date, and I am not sure the value added would have been worth it.

Hi Matt.

You don't sound like an adventure gamer. I guess that's ok.

I was a beta tester on Loom as a child (after sending endless letters to Lucas Arts), I was the producer of Tales of Monkey Island and have worked on a bunch of other adventure games over the last 10 years. They are the reason I went to college for Game Design and worked at both Telltale and Double Fine.

I have always identified myself as an adventure gamer, but maybe I don't understand what that means.

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I was a beta tester on Loom as a child (after sending endless letters to Lucas Arts), I was the producer of Tales of Monkey Island and have worked on a bunch of other adventure games over the last 10 years. They are the reason I went to college for Game Design and worked at both Telltale and Double Fine.

I have always identified myself as an adventure gamer, but maybe I don't understand what that means.

FWIW, I always felt that Grim was in good hands, and I'm sure that DoTT is too <3

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I guess that is what I never understood. Why would someone want to hear the old music?

It's not like the music is totally different. The focus on remastering the music was to replace any cheesy synth tracks with real instruments. This was mostly the piano and guitar parts. Peter wanted to re-record those, and it had been bugging him for a while before this opportunity came up. Is the nostalgia in the how the cheesy synth instruments sounded? The tracks that we had done with the symphony are amazing. I guess I just don't see why those wouldn't be the preference. I am just trying to wrap my head around this.

We want to release a soundtrack at some point, but that was not part of the original deal. It is something we have been discussing for a very long time, so maybe some day.

Adding support for DLC into an engine from 1998 is a lot harder than you might think. It would have pushed out the release date, and I am not sure the value added would have been worth it.

Hi Matt.

You don't sound like an adventure gamer. I guess that's ok.

I was a beta tester on Loom as a child (after sending endless letters to Lucas Arts), I was the producer of Tales of Monkey Island and have worked on a bunch of other adventure games over the last 10 years. They are the reason I went to college for Game Design and worked at both Telltale and Double Fine.

I have always identified myself as an adventure gamer, but maybe I don't understand what that means.

Don't worry, I think Greg has given sue jak a timeout from the forums. ;-)

Look forward to playing this -- I never got to play the original.

Smiles

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I guess that is what I never understood. Why would someone want to hear the old music?

It's not like the music is totally different. The focus on remastering the music was to replace any cheesy synth tracks with real instruments. This was mostly the piano and guitar parts. Peter wanted to re-record those, and it had been bugging him for a while before this opportunity came up. Is the nostalgia in the how the cheesy synth instruments sounded? The tracks that we had done with the symphony are amazing. I guess I just don't see why those wouldn't be the preference. I am just trying to wrap my head around this.

We want to release a soundtrack at some point, but that was not part of the original deal. It is something we have been discussing for a very long time, so maybe some day.

Adding support for DLC into an engine from 1998 is a lot harder than you might think. It would have pushed out the release date, and I am not sure the value added would have been worth it.

Hi Matt.

You don't sound like an adventure gamer. I guess that's ok.

I was a beta tester on Loom as a child (after sending endless letters to Lucas Arts), I was the producer of Tales of Monkey Island and have worked on a bunch of other adventure games over the last 10 years. They are the reason I went to college for Game Design and worked at both Telltale and Double Fine.

I have always identified myself as an adventure gamer, but maybe I don't understand what that means.

Slow clap.

Have you kept your letters to Lucas Arts? Are they full of design ideas and analysis? That sounds awesome :)

Do you get the opportunity to help design the games you work on now? I don't know the full scope of responsibilities that goes along with being the producer, beyond the vague idea of managing time and keeping everyone on track. It sounds like you are in an interesting position to help work on design, particularly by suggesting design changes that can keep a game "in scope."

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I guess that is what I never understood. Why would someone want to hear the old music?

It's not like the music is totally different. The focus on remastering the music was to replace any cheesy synth tracks with real instruments. This was mostly the piano and guitar parts. Peter wanted to re-record those, and it had been bugging him for a while before this opportunity came up. Is the nostalgia in the how the cheesy synth instruments sounded? The tracks that we had done with the symphony are amazing. I guess I just don't see why those wouldn't be the preference. I am just trying to wrap my head around this.

We want to release a soundtrack at some point, but that was not part of the original deal. It is something we have been discussing for a very long time, so maybe some day.

Adding support for DLC into an engine from 1998 is a lot harder than you might think. It would have pushed out the release date, and I am not sure the value added would have been worth it.

Hi Matt.

You don't sound like an adventure gamer. I guess that's ok.

I was a beta tester on Loom as a child (after sending endless letters to Lucas Arts), I was the producer of Tales of Monkey Island and have worked on a bunch of other adventure games over the last 10 years. They are the reason I went to college for Game Design and worked at both Telltale and Double Fine.

I have always identified myself as an adventure gamer, but maybe I don't understand what that means.

Don't worry, I think Greg has given sue jak a timeout from the forums. ;-)

Look forward to playing this -- I never got to play the original.

Smiles

Which is kinda unfortunate since SuJack is obviously very passionate about adventure games. I really want to know what everyone wants from DOTT:SE, including SuJack. I just hope that everyone realizes that sometimes there are decisions made on games that might not be exactly what everyone wants. I really try and spend our budget on things I think will make the most people happy. I wish we had infinite time and money to do everything, but we are a business at the end of the day.

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I was a beta tester on Loom as a child (after sending endless letters to Lucas Arts), I was the producer of Tales of Monkey Island and have worked on a bunch of other adventure games over the last 10 years. They are the reason I went to college for Game Design and worked at both Telltale and Double Fine.

I have always identified myself as an adventure gamer, but maybe I don't understand what that means.

FWIW, I always felt that Grim was in good hands, and I'm sure that DoTT is too <3

Thanks Cheese :)

Brandon was the team member who was the most obsessed with Grim, but I am playing that roll on DOTT:SE. I have played through the game few dozen times, and I am so honored to be responsible for this version.

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I guess that is what I never understood. Why would someone want to hear the old music?

It's not like the music is totally different. The focus on remastering the music was to replace any cheesy synth tracks with real instruments. This was mostly the piano and guitar parts. Peter wanted to re-record those, and it had been bugging him for a while before this opportunity came up. Is the nostalgia in the how the cheesy synth instruments sounded? The tracks that we had done with the symphony are amazing. I guess I just don't see why those wouldn't be the preference. I am just trying to wrap my head around this.

We want to release a soundtrack at some point, but that was not part of the original deal. It is something we have been discussing for a very long time, so maybe some day.

Adding support for DLC into an engine from 1998 is a lot harder than you might think. It would have pushed out the release date, and I am not sure the value added would have been worth it.

Hi Matt.

You don't sound like an adventure gamer. I guess that's ok.

I was a beta tester on Loom as a child (after sending endless letters to Lucas Arts), I was the producer of Tales of Monkey Island and have worked on a bunch of other adventure games over the last 10 years. They are the reason I went to college for Game Design and worked at both Telltale and Double Fine.

I have always identified myself as an adventure gamer, but maybe I don't understand what that means.

Slow clap.

Have you kept your letters to Lucas Arts? Are they full of design ideas and analysis? That sounds awesome :)

Do you get the opportunity to help design the games you work on now? I don't know the full scope of responsibilities that goes along with being the producer, beyond the vague idea of managing time and keeping everyone on track. It sounds like you are in an interesting position to help work on design, particularly by suggesting design changes that can keep a game "in scope."

I wish I still had the letter they sent back. It might be somewhere back home. When I interviewed at Telltale, I told them that story. I don't remember if it was Dave Grossman or Mike Stemmle, but one of them remembered my letters.

Design at Double Fine doesn't really fall on any one person. I contribute to the design, but I am mostly focused on bringing the budget/schedule/resources element to those design discussions.

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I will be definitely be buying this remaster.

I have very fond memories of the electro synth music in DOTT, definitely suited the DOTT artwork.

Any chance of a documentary of the remake process? Looking at the Singapore assets, artwork creation, programming, putting it all together? There doesn't seem to be too many documentaries of a game making process. It would make us appreciate the effort that much more.

Any rough rough ETA, like the end of the year if assets are good?

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We started filming stuff today. If we have enough cool stuff we will be putting out a documentary. Did you like the one for Grim? Any feedback that we could apply to DOTT:SE?

It does feel like giving a public time estimate so early could blowup in my face, again. As soon as we announce a date, we lose a lot of our flexibility. For instance, if a fan says "Why don't you guys do " when we are well into production, we might have to say no only because it would cause us to miss that publicly announced date. Also, the Grim deadline was really hard on the team. Lots of long nights and weekends to make that date. Some team members didn't spend time with their families during the winter holidays in order to hit that date. It is the part of game development that people might not think about. I really want to try and protect my team from that this time.

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Hmmm...

Anywayyy, let's get this DOTT wishlist thread back on track!

In lieu of or in addition to any making of vids, I'd be very interested to read blog posts, dev diaries or forum threads from the people working on this Special Edition!

I totally hear you on this. This is my effort to do exactly what you are asking, and I hope to continue through development. I also want to get other team members to give you guys a little glimpse into our development. I am also the VP of Development for DF, so I am working on all the projects at the studio, so finding time to post can be very difficult at times.

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We started filming stuff today. If we have enough cool stuff we will be putting out a documentary. Did you like the one for Grim? Any feedback that we could apply to DOTT:SE?

It does feel like giving a public time estimate so early could blowup in my face, again. As soon as we announce a date, we lose a lot of our flexibility. For instance, if a fan says "Why don't you guys do " when we are well into production, we might have to say no only because it would cause us to miss that publicly announced date. Also, the Grim deadline was really hard on the team. Lots of long nights and weekends to make that date. Some team members didn't spend time with their families during the winter holidays in order to hit that date. It is the part of game development that people might not think about. I really want to try and protect my team from that this time.

I guess it would be nice to see some of the new art and stuff earlier. I loved the Grim Mini-doc but it took a long time to actually see anything of the game. I'd love to see more info about roughtly what the approach to the art is gonna be,etc.

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We started filming stuff today. If we have enough cool stuff we will be putting out a documentary. Did you like the one for Grim? Any feedback that we could apply to DOTT:SE?

It does feel like giving a public time estimate so early could blowup in my face, again. As soon as we announce a date, we lose a lot of our flexibility. For instance, if a fan says "Why don't you guys do " when we are well into production, we might have to say no only because it would cause us to miss that publicly announced date. Also, the Grim deadline was really hard on the team. Lots of long nights and weekends to make that date. Some team members didn't spend time with their families during the winter holidays in order to hit that date. It is the part of game development that people might not think about. I really want to try and protect my team from that this time.

I guess it would be nice to see some of the new art and stuff earlier. I loved the Grim Mini-doc but it took a long time to actually see anything of the game. I'd love to see more info about roughtly what the approach to the art is gonna be,etc.

I totally understand. But, since this is a Lucas Arts/Disney IP, anything we show publicly has to go through them for approval. They have been amazing to work with, but they are handling a lot right now with all of the Star Wars stuff ramping up. This sometimes means a delay on when we can post updates.

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Also, the Grim deadline was really hard on the team. Lots of long nights and weekends to make that date. Some team members didn't spend time with their families during the winter holidays in order to hit that date. It is the part of game development that people might not think about. I really want to try and protect my team from that this time.

Yikes. That's horrible. Why was the deadline so tight? Didn't Disney give you the budget for more staff? Ugh. I bet those guys are fried right now. Very sad :( I'm very grateful for their sacrifices. I hope it's paid off well for them and DF.

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We started filming stuff today. If we have enough cool stuff we will be putting out a documentary. Did you like the one for Grim? Any feedback that we could apply to DOTT:SE?

I liked the Grim documentary a lot. Personally, I think the most important thing is just to have a good representation of what people on the team are working on in terms of the remaster. That way, people who care to learn will see and appreciate that you guys are actually doing a lot of really cool work. Plus, it's just fun to see how things are made.

This is of course very general, but I think any quick 10 minute doc pulling together the footage you have would be very appreciated. Even what you might think of as boring makes my day!

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I was a beta tester on Loom as a child (after sending endless letters to Lucas Arts), I was the producer of Tales of Monkey Island and have worked on a bunch of other adventure games over the last 10 years. They are the reason I went to college for Game Design and worked at both Telltale and Double Fine.

I have always identified myself as an adventure gamer, but maybe I don't understand what that means.

FWIW, I always felt that Grim was in good hands, and I'm sure that DoTT is too <3

Thanks Cheese :)

Brandon was the team member who was the most obsessed with Grim, but I am playing that roll on DOTT:SE. I have played through the game few dozen times, and I am so honored to be responsible for this version.

That is great to hear! I didn't know you were such a DOTT fan, this makes me more hopeful as you were happy with the assests you got from Singapore! Hopefully those are in good enough shape so you can use them as a foundation and free the budget to improve fix and polish it till it shines like it deserves!! (I understand you're working with limited budgets, that's why I'm so obsessed with the Singapore assets, as I hope they will allow DF to broaden the scope on this one compared to Grimm, which is great but could have been so much more, I mean, have you seen that video made In Unreal with a fully 3d made Department of Death?? And of course I also have morbid curiosity the canceled project, like with LucasArts Freelance Police ;) )

My point is, I'll hope they'll help DF make this a remake instead of a Remaster!

Even more off topic now, since you're friends and worked on both teams... When are you planning to get them all together so we can finally get the Double Fine / LucasArts / TellTale Games / Sony / Steve purcell's Freelance Police Special Unreleased Edition ??? :P

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Did you like the one for Grim? Any feedback that we could apply to DOTT:SE?

Loved the one for Grim. So basically I think 2PP's style for both that one and the DFA doc pretty much covers what I'd like to see for DOTT: Showing each of the areas of production, including examples of what they do - like PMcC jamming or the orchestra playing, as well as Brandon going through the SSD. I wish the background scene-files were recovered, so that you could have shown some of the re-working of the Softimage files going on... but it was still cool to see Lee re-paint the textures and Oliver using point-clouds to reconstruct the camera angles (at least I think that's what he did :D).

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