Day of the Tentacle: Special Edition Wish List Features

[RMJ]

i'm sorry if I'm sounding a little stupid, but why does the remake need hints all of the sudden?

It's because, its better than the alternative. Making them game so easy like say Broken Age. Its better to offer difficulty and not mess with anything in this case, but offer help for new players.

Machinarium was a pretty hard game, one of the harder ive played recently. But at least it had a hint book instead of just being a casual easy mode game

[tob_edison]

Okay I understand that. Thanks for the insight guys!

Even if I think it takes a little away from the game to look up hints or anything. When I first played DOTT I really liked to get stuck at a puzzle (I was maybe 10 years old) and come back to it the next day or even a week later and figuring it out. I think this takes a little away from the unique pace of an adventure game. I always thought this was a big part about those games but I can understand that people ache to see the story going on! And it doesnt hurt players who still wanna play it without hints so I think it's great for statisfying everybody.

greetings from germany^^

[KestrelPi]

I'm going off topic a bit, but I've been thinking a lot lately about how many of my absolute favourite adventure puzzles aren't the hardest ones. They're just satisfying in some other way.

There was a puzzle in the final Chapter of Tales of Monkey Island which was a twist on Insult Sword Fighting by having two people at once who needed to react to the same response in different ways. The dialogue solutions were quite easy, but it felt clever, and was fun to solve.

In Broken Age, I enjoyed the puzzle with the helmet, even though it was pretty simple.

In Grim Fandango, I liked the puzzle with changing the auto-response option

To bring it back around to DOTT, one of my favourites involves a particular puzzle where you need to switch two similar items.

Heh, even in Escape from Monkey Island there was that great time-travel puzzle.

None of these were very difficult, but somehow they just feel satisfying to do. I don't really have a point, it was just something I've been thinking about lately.

Back on topic - my deal is the more options the better. If we can provide as many ways as possible for people to enjoy the game, from old-school original purism to concessions to modern UI design and availability of hints, then I think we'll be able to safely say we have the definitive version of the game.

[ThunderPeel]

Matt: I'm not sure if you're still reading this thread, but I'd love to know: What changes were made to Grim Fandango for its Remastering? Olivia's new spinning camera scene, for example. And the slight changes to the dialogue. Could you go into more details for the hardcore like me? Thanks.

[matthansen]

So I'm not arguing for the removal of the verbs from the game, I'm arguing for the option for people to only see verbs which are relevant to the object at hand, which I think did no harm at all to MI2:SE (and, as I mentioned, actually let me in on a few places where there were context sensitive responses I'd never found before)

The addition of verbs as unique options (which wouldn't make sense with another verb) is a good idea. I'm guessing they'll probably go with something like that for DOTT.

I just hope we get options, really the thing I like about the way it was done with Grim is that there were all kinds of options, for the purists, for the new people, and everyone wins.

What I think will be more controversial is if there should be some sort of in game UHS style hint engine. I think, after reading people's responses to Grim, probably there should be. Many people just don't want to be stuck on puzzles, and that's okay, we shouldn't force them to be, even if that's how we liked to play it. Particularly because, as I recall, there were versions of DOTT that came with a walkthrough packed in. So I'd love optional hints, it seems like a win-win to me. I'd be interested in what other people think.

I want to at least consider a hint system. DOTT is a lot easier than Grim, but there are still points where people could use some help. I think if we at least give an achievement for not using the hint system there is an incentive to try and play without it. But, as of right now I don't know if it is something we will be able to do within the budget and timeline.

[matthansen]

If there were a walkthrough/hint system included with the game, I'd rather see it as something you could access/interact with from the menu rather than integrated with the game itself (which I think the MI special editions had? I'm not sure, I never used them). That would avoid making it "too easy" to grab a hint (which seems to be some people's problem with hint systems) or to frame hints as being something that's a part of the intended experience (which seems to be some other people's problem).

Another thought I just had was that it could be neat to flavour hints with a bit of relevant design insight or trivia relating to the original game and/or the special edition. That would give something of value to for long time fans (which is something that hint systems never seem to do) who wanted to know more about the origins of a particular puzzle, and give players who were super stuck an opportunity to progress.

It could be a nice way to give small but deep directed tidbits that might not be exposed through a commentary recording session, though it'd have a bit of production overhead in terms of wrangling the extra info

That's a really good idea Cheese. I sometimes just want a subtle hint instead of just being told how to solve a puzzle. Some of the old Lucas Film and Sierra hintbooks would do this.

[KestrelPi]

So I'm not arguing for the removal of the verbs from the game, I'm arguing for the option for people to only see verbs which are relevant to the object at hand, which I think did no harm at all to MI2:SE (and, as I mentioned, actually let me in on a few places where there were context sensitive responses I'd never found before)

The addition of verbs as unique options (which wouldn't make sense with another verb) is a good idea. I'm guessing they'll probably go with something like that for DOTT.

I just hope we get options, really the thing I like about the way it was done with Grim is that there were all kinds of options, for the purists, for the new people, and everyone wins.

What I think will be more controversial is if there should be some sort of in game UHS style hint engine. I think, after reading people's responses to Grim, probably there should be. Many people just don't want to be stuck on puzzles, and that's okay, we shouldn't force them to be, even if that's how we liked to play it. Particularly because, as I recall, there were versions of DOTT that came with a walkthrough packed in. So I'd love optional hints, it seems like a win-win to me. I'd be interested in what other people think.

I want to at least consider a hint system. DOTT is a lot easier than Grim, but there are still points where people could use some help. I think if we at least give an achievement for not using the hint system there is an incentive to try and play without it. But, as of right now I don't know if it is something we will be able to do within the budget and timeline.

I bet you could crowdsource a simple progressive UHS-style hint system from the community (the kind where the hints start out real subtle and get progressively more specific), and then all that would be left would be to put it in a menu in the game as a browsable list (maybe with spoilery items not visible until the relevant events happen. The UHS for DOTT for example has this list of top level hint questions for Bernard:

Where is Dr. Fred's secret laboratory?

How can I get the gum with a dime stuck in it?

I want the fake barf in the lobby!

How do I open the safe?

How do I get the chattering teeth?

How can I get a cigar from the novelty salesman?

Where do I find a diamond for the time machine?

How do I get the bird bath from Cousin Ted?

How can I get the crowbar from the car thief?

How can I get the sweater in the honeymoon suite?

This novelty salesman is about to kill himself!

How can I get Green Tentacle's bowling ball?

I need help with the original Maniac Mansion!

Why won't Edna let me get close to her monitors?

Dr. Fred has been arrested by the IRS!

How can I send off that contract?

I'm sure the community could whip up something similar so at least the text would be ready to drop into the game (I know it's not that simple, though)

[matthansen]

Idea:

If they are unable to implement the Maniac Mansion easter egg, just put the hint system on the computer instead. Or they could make it so that there's a choice between the two if they are able to implement the easter egg. So hints wouldn't be available during the prologue, but after that people would be able to go to the computer to look up a hint, UHS style. I think it would be cute, anyway.

This is a really interesting idea. Something to consider for sure.

[matthansen]

Matt: I'm not sure if you're still reading this thread, but I'd love to know: What changes were made to Grim Fandango for its Remastering? Olivia's new spinning camera scene, for example. And the slight changes to the dialogue. Could you go into more details for the hardcore like me? Thanks.

I'm still here.

Things are getting a lot busier now. You might not see me respond as much, but I am reading every post.

I will try and put together a list of what was added, but it might be more fun for people to find them on their own.

[Monkey Mania]

It helps that the game takes place in one location. Bernard could easily access the computer any time he wants.

[Ash735]

That's a really good idea Cheese. I sometimes just want a subtle hint instead of just being told how to solve a puzzle. Some of the old Lucas Film and Sierra hintbooks would do this.

If I remember correct, the Monkey Island Special Editions actually had three steps with it's Hint System, pressing the button once would give a subtle Hint about what you need to do, pressing it again would be a bit more direct, and pressing it a third time would just flat out tell you what to do for the puzzle.

[ThunderPeel]

I'm still here.

Things are getting a lot busier now. You might not see me respond as much, but I am reading every post.

I will try and put together a list of what was added, but it might be more fun for people to find them on their own.

Well you could always PM me the list if you want to keep it somewhat secret, but really I'm sure everyone here would love to know

[fubarhouse]

To bring it back around to DOTT, one of my favourites involves a particular puzzle where you need to switch two similar items.

This puzzle is quite memorable, but more than this the puzzles are logical in DOTT

[Jenni]

If there were a walkthrough/hint system included with the game, I'd rather see it as something you could access/interact with from the menu rather than integrated with the game itself (which I think the MI special editions had? I'm not sure, I never used them). That would avoid making it "too easy" to grab a hint (which seems to be some people's problem with hint systems) or to frame hints as being something that's a part of the intended experience (which seems to be some other people's problem).

Another thought I just had was that it could be neat to flavour hints with a bit of relevant design insight or trivia relating to the original game and/or the special edition. That would give something of value to for long time fans (which is something that hint systems never seem to do) who wanted to know more about the origins of a particular puzzle, and give players who were super stuck an opportunity to progress.

It could be a nice way to give small but deep directed tidbits that might not be exposed through a commentary recording session, though it'd have a bit of production overhead in terms of wrangling the extra info

That's a really good idea Cheese. I sometimes just want a subtle hint instead of just being told how to solve a puzzle. Some of the old Lucas Film and Sierra hintbooks would do this.

Something like Hector: Badge of Carnage would be perfect. It was set up like the UHS systems (which were inspired by the Sierra hint books), where you get hints in the menu, and are given a list of puzzles, choose which one you want, and then are given multiple levels of clues based on how stuck you were (the first hint would be subtle, then if you click for more help it would be less subtle, and then if you clicked for more help it would outright tell you how to do it).

[Torbjörn Andersson]

Something like Hector: Badge of Carnage would be perfect. It was set up like the UHS systems (which were inspired by the Sierra hint books), where you get hints in the menu, and are given a list of puzzles, choose which one you want, and then are given multiple levels of clues based on how stuck you were (the first hint would be subtle, then if you click for more help it would be less subtle, and then if you clicked for more help it would outright tell you how to do it).

One of the more original built-in hint systems I've ever seen was for a text adventure called Corruption (made by Magnetic Scrolls, if anyone else remembers them). Not only were the hints encrypted, so you had to enter a string of random-looking letters to get the answer, each set of hints had three different questions, and only one of them was actually relevant to the game. So even if you looked through the questions, you wouldn't spoil the game much. In addition, the hints were often written so that even after decrypting one or two, you couldn't always say for sure which of the questions they were for. And of course, some of the questions were somewhat nonsensical either way. Here are two examples:

My parachute's caught on the first aid kit. Help!

I can't escape from the ambulance. Help!

I'm in the boot of a car with my limbs tied. Help!

1. Remove the bandage.

2. Jump out in familiar surroundings.

3. Pyjamas aren't fashionable streetwear yet.

Why can't I park my car on the zebra crossing?

What's stopping me from killing Mr. Park?

What is insider dealing?

1. It's illegal.

2. Ask a lawyer if you don't believe me.

[Frogacuda]

So I'm not arguing for the removal of the verbs from the game, I'm arguing for the option for people to only see verbs which are relevant to the object at hand, which I think did no harm at all to MI2:SE (and, as I mentioned, actually let me in on a few places where there were context sensitive responses I'd never found before)

The addition of verbs as unique options (which wouldn't make sense with another verb) is a good idea. I'm guessing they'll probably go with something like that for DOTT.

I just hope we get options, really the thing I like about the way it was done with Grim is that there were all kinds of options, for the purists, for the new people, and everyone wins.

What I think will be more controversial is if there should be some sort of in game UHS style hint engine. I think, after reading people's responses to Grim, probably there should be. Many people just don't want to be stuck on puzzles, and that's okay, we shouldn't force them to be, even if that's how we liked to play it. Particularly because, as I recall, there were versions of DOTT that came with a walkthrough packed in. So I'd love optional hints, it seems like a win-win to me. I'd be interested in what other people think.

I want to at least consider a hint system. DOTT is a lot easier than Grim, but there are still points where people could use some help. I think if we at least give an achievement for not using the hint system there is an incentive to try and play without it. But, as of right now I don't know if it is something we will be able to do within the budget and timeline.

If you do a hint system, consider doing something similar to Under a Killing Moon and Pandora directive. They let you "buy" progressively more specific hints so you'd never truly get stuck. Still one of the best hint systems ever.

[matthansen]

So I'm not arguing for the removal of the verbs from the game, I'm arguing for the option for people to only see verbs which are relevant to the object at hand, which I think did no harm at all to MI2:SE (and, as I mentioned, actually let me in on a few places where there were context sensitive responses I'd never found before)

The addition of verbs as unique options (which wouldn't make sense with another verb) is a good idea. I'm guessing they'll probably go with something like that for DOTT.

I just hope we get options, really the thing I like about the way it was done with Grim is that there were all kinds of options, for the purists, for the new people, and everyone wins.

What I think will be more controversial is if there should be some sort of in game UHS style hint engine. I think, after reading people's responses to Grim, probably there should be. Many people just don't want to be stuck on puzzles, and that's okay, we shouldn't force them to be, even if that's how we liked to play it. Particularly because, as I recall, there were versions of DOTT that came with a walkthrough packed in. So I'd love optional hints, it seems like a win-win to me. I'd be interested in what other people think.

I want to at least consider a hint system. DOTT is a lot easier than Grim, but there are still points where people could use some help. I think if we at least give an achievement for not using the hint system there is an incentive to try and play without it. But, as of right now I don't know if it is something we will be able to do within the budget and timeline.

If you do a hint system, consider doing something similar to Under a Killing Moon and Pandora directive. They let you "buy" progressively more specific hints so you'd never truly get stuck. Still one of the best hint systems ever.

I haven't played those games since they first came out. Was this hint system in the original version, or was there a more recent one that added that feature?

[Jenni]

I really hope you put some injokes into the new artwork. That was my favorite part of the art in the Monkey Island special editions, since they managed to add Manny into the artwork quite well due to the lack of detail in the original backgrounds:

There's some places in Day of the Tentacle too you can play with the graphics since there's a lack of detail in the original game in spots due to the low resolution, like the picture on this wall for example:

I really hope that you end up using that to your advantage and add in-jokes to the new artwork (Eddie Riggs would be great for that particular portrait, I'd think, they even both have the same part in their hair ).

[ThunderPeel]

Hmm. I know we differ with our appreciation for MI1:SE, Jenni

[AdamL]

My favorite game of all time. So happy that it's coming back. My kids have already memorized the original version, and I'm sure we'll all tackle this one on day one.

As far as features, I would enjoy Maniac Mansion in the game, but I've never been able to beat it because of the way it punishes you for making mistakes. If someone is going to go to the trouble of somehow updating Maniac Mansion, it would be nice to have it feel more in line with the superior sequel.

I would like the sprites/characters to be nice and sharp, and true to the originals, as has been stated. The parallaxing video used on page one sure is neat, but it's probably cost-prohibitive to do that to the entire game.

Again, thank you so much for revisiting my favorite game. I bought Grim Fandango today on GOG. It's a good time to be alive.

[KestrelPi]

Hmm. I know we differ with our appreciation for MI1:SE, Jenni

Well, I think one can dislike the art decisions in MI1:SE while still appreciating some little touches, right? I mean, I dislike the character designs in MI1:SE and think the backgrounds are very hit and miss, but I still think that adding the hidden references in the backgrounds was a very nice touch - it also struck me as a very LucasArts thing to do. I used to love spotting Sam and Max in the game backgrounds, and such, or some Star Wars reference.

[TimeGentleman]

I really hope you put some injokes into the new artwork. That was my favorite part of the art in the

I really hope that you end up using that to your advantage and add in-jokes to the new artwork (Eddie Riggs would be great for that particular portrait, I'd think, they even both have the same part in their hair ).

That's supposed to be Ronald Reagan, isn't it?

(Personally I think DF references might feel a little weird in a Lucasarts game SE anyway...)

[ThunderPeel]

Yes, it's specifically mentioned in the dialogue that it's Ronald Reagan.

[Frogacuda]

I haven't played those games since they first came out. Was this hint system in the original version, or was there a more recent one that added that feature?

They were in the originals. The recent sequel Tesla Effect actually doesn't do it as well as the older ones, in my opinion.

[Unno]

Something that I think no one has mentioned yet that would be cool would be proper lipsync instead of the "yammer mouths." Some of the characters have very exaggerated mouth movements that could be really cool if they were properly synced up to the voices.

My thinking is that you could take all the original mouth shapes, plus a few new ones if there turn out to be a few phoneme shapes missing, and then run all the dialogue through phoneme recognition software to pick the right shape for each sound.

And yes, this idea did come to mind after hearing Bret Mogilefsky talk about the lip sync in Grim Fandango.

[Nilssonkarl]

First of all, thanks for even starting this thread.

I would like to see just as stated before, some new puzzles or maybe comments when trying to put the hamster in the microwave.

Really looking forward for this second edition.

[Scrawffler]

Having just gone through the entire thread, I don't think I really have anything new to add that hasn't been said at some point already. Instead, I'm going to be significantly less helpful than all of those clever people who posted something original, and emphasise some of the things I particularly agree with. Hopefully that will still be of some use to the team!

The visual style has come up a few times. It was mentioned a while back that the Saturday Morning cartoon feel really needs to be kept in the SE, and I absolutely agree. I also liked the comments about texturing backgrounds or having them hand-drawn/painted, all the while creating the sprites to make them look like they were animated on cels. Not only would this maintain the nostalgic cartoon atmosphere of the original, but it will also eliminate the possibility of new customers having to "pixel hunt" when it comes to certain objects, because anything that moves will have to be drawn on cels (or, in this case, drawn to look like it's on cels), making it stand out from the background.

If a soundtrack were to be released, that's definitely something I'd be interested in.

I absolutely agree with everyone who's said that the voice acting does not need to be redone, but also with those who have requested for it to be higher quality. I wonder though, do better quality versions of the original recordings exist somewhere? It makes sense they'd be compressed when put into the game to save space, I'm just wondering if the team has access to these (possibly existent) original files?

Personally, I love all the behind-the-scenes stuff - and judging by this thread, apparently so do a lot of people! I'm definitely on board for things like developer commentary and concept art. Might be an idea to have the concept art as unlockables throughout the game.

Matt - you're a star! It's awesome of you to keep posting here, keeping us all in the loop with what's going on and your thoughts on everyone's suggestions/wishes. Thanks a bunch!

Anyway, I probably haven't been nearly as helpful as most of the others in this thread, but I wanted to show my support for what's been said already, and the project in general. Looking forward to it.

[Soeroah]

Just to weigh in;

I really enjoyed the Monkey Island Special Edition system where you pressed F10 (I think) and it toggled between the graphics and sound of the original release and the modern remake.

I really, really love seeing comparisons between things- photos in the same location through the years, alternate timeline re-imaginings of fictional places I know, even remakes and original releases. Having one button to toggle between the two at will, without going through a menu or playing a separate "Classic Mode" was amazing- the F10 key was pressed more times while playing MISE 1 and 2 than literally any other time I've used the computer. I probably pressed it several hundred times through the course of each game- at least once per screen, sometimes mid-conversation.

If it's not too much trouble, I think a similar system for DoTT would be almost mandatory. Seeing how far we've come, or seeing how things were in the golden age of adventure games...yesss.

Other than that, I'm not sure what features would really improve the game. Improving the graphics and letting it run on newer computers pretty much seems to be it. Keep the verb system rather than a cycles-with-right-click mouse pointer, maybe make it a bit more obvious that after a point you can just drag an item onto a character's portrait to send it to them instead of having to visit the John-o-tron every time, seems fine enough.

[CountDuckula]

... maybe make it a bit more obvious that after a point you can just drag an item onto a character's portrait to send it to them instead of having to visit the John-o-tron every time, seems fine enough.

Chrono-john, it's a time toilet

[fubarhouse]

... maybe make it a bit more obvious that after a point you can just drag an item onto a character's portrait to send it to them instead of having to visit the John-o-tron every time, seems fine enough.

Chrono-john, it's a time toilet

It does take time to use the toilet, unfortunately...

http://www.giantbomb.com/chron-o-john/3055-80/