Sign in to follow this  
Tim Schafer

Important question to backers about the DFA doc

Recommended Posts

Access to this documentary is the main reason I paid money for the project. It would feel weird if it was suddenly made available for everyone for free. I also very much doubt it will change anyone's negative opinion. No one will watch a ten hour documentary series to check if their criticism against Double Fine is justified.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do it - the episodic release for weeks up to full game release will be great.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a green light for making it public from me. I've been telling everyone how great the documentary episodes are, and it would awesome for them to be able to enjoy them as well, even though they weren't backers of the project. As well as explaining the story of the development, you might get a few more sales, which would be good for the bottom line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why not add the documentary as a game extra? I think it would be a better compromise than just giving a backer reward away for free.

Honestly, I'm really not bothered either way. I backed the game for the game, and only skimmed through the documentary in bits and pieces since I hate videos and it doesn't even have subtitles. And as others have said, those who already dislike Double Fine won't put aside the time to look at it. If anything, it'll be fodder for saying that DF has released more documentary than game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Tim

I've been following the negativity you referred to from afar but, from what I can grasp, most of such ill-feelings stem from individuals that will undoubtedly keep on criticizing and besmirching you and DF whether the documentary disproves them or not and most will probably just ignore the documentary anyway. It will hopefully enlighten some minds though and silence some of the unwarranted criticism but I honestly do not think it will do much good on that regard.

The problem that I felt with the kickstarter from the beginning was that we, the backers, would have exclusive access to information pertaining the game development. Great for us but bad for everyone else, including DF since you had your hands tied behind your back when it came to divulging the game... it is particularly painful to notice that, considering how good a work 2PP have actually done with the documentary! But the "contract" that the backers jumped on board did entail that this was part of what we were getting in, we would be paying (at least) for a copy of the game and the documentary (or, if the game failed, we would still have the doc). It is essentially releasing part of what was behind the pay-wall for free now, before the entire project has come to an end.

Having said that, I do think it is a great idea to promote Act 2's release without compromising the story and entering spoiler territory. It is definitely good evidence of the work that has been put into the project (both game and doc). People that have been on the fringe or just unaware of what has been going on will probably be more inclined to purchase and experience the game for themselves.

I am not completely at ease with this decision but I see the good it can bring and if the folks from 2PP are okay with releasing their work like this... I guess I am too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm brutally honest, so be ready.

I backed this project mainly for the Documentary, I only played the first part of Broken Age for 40 minutes and stopped, not because I didn't like it, but because time is short and I was hopping for a VITA version, so I'll probably buy the game there despite having the "free version on PC".

Would I back this game if there was no documentary? Most likely... no.

Do I feel cheated that the documentary will be available for free now? A little bit yes!

Do I (and you!) honestly believe that the people writing crap on the Internet about Broken Age didn't saw the documentary or are that misinformed? No! People who are bashing Double Fine and Broken Age are just the same people who make a living from sensational headlines from everything else, having this documentary online won't clear the fog, it will just probably give more fuel to haters, they will analyse every word from the game devs and make a way to make it look bad, take them out of context and do the same or worse than they are doing now.

To the general public, I also don't think anyone is more or less afraid to back anything on kick-starter because of what was said of Broken Age, you DELIVERED a quality product, the fact that it was split and the money become short on the end was something that wasn't that of a surprise, I wasn't expecting Double Fine to do a good enough job, I was expecting you do do exactly what you did, make the best game possible with the money you had, and like on most games, things got complicated, and like with most good game developers, you sorted it out and made a better than good job!

ALL that was part of the experience, all the good and all the bad, having that on video was a rich entertainment experience, that was what I payed for, to see the expected and the unexpected.

BUT, will I be pissed of and make a scene if you release the videos online? God no, do as you want, I just don't think you HAVE to do it, or agree with the aspects that took DF to take that decision.

The amount of money I payed is irrelevant to the grand scene, and most people seem to "go for it", so do it Tim.

Fred out and sorry for my English.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Should the documentary be released to the public (for free)?

I think the most reasonable answer is 'yes': It's both educational and promotional, and it's entertaining as well. If other backers have 'mixed feelings' about releasing it, I myself have 'mixed feelings' about their attitude towards backing this project, and I think this attitude is part of the problem why there's so much hate on kickstarter and crowdfunding in general.

Your main motivation behind backing should always be: "I want to make this happen, this is why I'm paying X$".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Still, when it comes to a backer reward and a question of whether some people might feel the reward I'd diminished by a change, it's absolutely appropriate for Double Fine to ask the backers what they think.

And on the basis of the response so far, it's absolutely appropriate for them to conclude that the vast majority of the backers are either indifferent or support releasing the doc.

All in all it points to the same thing that gets lost in online chatter, which is that backers are overwhelmingly supportive of the project still.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you realy want our optionen (85K Backers, not 100 Backers which have time to read and write in this forum to give you an opinion), give us a tool where we can vote please! Then invite the whole "family". Otherwise u only get answers from ppl in this forum and not the whole lot, which deserve it to vote.

I agree with this. Simply judging by the replies in this thread is not enough. Better to set up a poll and don't take a final decision until lets say 80% of the backers voted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Should the documentary be released to the public (for free)?

I think the most reasonable answer is 'yes': It's both educational and promotional, and it's entertaining as well. If other backers have 'mixed feelings' about releasing it, I myself have 'mixed feelings' about their attitude towards backing this project, and I think this attitude is part of the problem why there's so much hate on kickstarter and crowdfunding in general.

Your main motivation behind backing should always be: "I want to make this happen, this is why I'm paying X$".

Anyone's main motivation should be HIS own motivation, you wanting people's motivation to be the one you think is the most correct IS the problem you mentioned.

I backed this project because THE documentary was a big part of it, I'd even say it was 50% of the project itself, I personally payed to see the documentary, I'm a video professional and I love that kind of stuff, so why shouldn't my motivation be that? Now what I payed for (because it was exclusive) to backers is being offered for free, so what for did I pay? An early-access to the videos? That wasn't what was said in the kickstarter, if I was absolutely mad about the documentary being offered to everyone I had that right, just like as if now the game was free to everyone else, if things worked that way what purpose and interest would people have to back anything on kickstarter?...

But as I said, I don't actually care if the videos get distributed or not (assuming they are not monetized), I just don't think it will help Tim's case with the Broken Age situation, but that's not to me to decide.

Sorry for the rant, but I don't like to be told what to be motivated about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I for one say YES, release it publicly! Make sure the release is in every way as professional as we backers experienced it. I've been dying to show this to my friends.

Offer the option to buy as a download or stream for free on YouTube...make sure to heavily promote the sale of the game, commercials are okay!

My $100 gave me early access in real time and let me have the opportunity to influence and contribute to the game. Those slackers will never take that away from me.

Physical merch makes much better product for holiday gift giving too, keep that in mind. Lots of YouTubers make their profit on merch on the backs of free videos.

Good luck Tim and DFA team!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading many other backers' posts, I have some additional thoughts.

There are a small minority of backers who think this is a bad idea, I am definitely NOT one of them. I am like the majority of posters--I donatrd to support Double Fine and I am super thrilled I had the option to participate and learn through the documentaries.

However those minority backers who feel hurt or cheated should have their voices acknowledged in the spirit of openness. Here are my thoughts on the naysayer's arguments.

1. "I paid so why should others get it for free?"

You know the financial results so far. Do you want to give DFA every chance of success and reward the team's hard work? If yes, then accept that you were not only someone who paid for a gift but also a supporter and a part of the team and that we give the team leader freedom access to all the tools of success.

2. "But you made promises and this feels like a broken promise."

The backers have received everything we were promised and more. Double Fine has gone far beyond any company I have ever observed in thinking about our needs. They set big lofty goals and achieved most of them. A few of them they have struggled and who could have predicted the power of the trolls and the negative effect on the morale they have dished out in the public media. I am disgusted by the negativity of human beings and it is so pervasive it sometimes makes me act like one of them. In terms of promises, none of us can predict the future and we have to adapt. If "exclusivity" was a promise then I feel that my memories and the amount of attention DFA has given us backers IS exclusive and no amount of free (or paid!) access to the documentaries will take that away from me.

3. "Forum posts are not scientific way to ask the 90,000 backers"

A tiny fraction of the backers opted in at the $100 or more level. Among those backers you're still not going to get everyone to contribute an answer. Perhaps the forums will represent only the backers who really care about Double Fine and the hard work the team put into it. Perhaps a scientific poll would include a lot of backers who don't care about anything but the rewards they received and not the team effort itself. If a scientific poll would only acknowledge this, I say don't take a poll. If people want to have a voice, they already have the option to speak out and loudly now without a poll. If you want to be heard, SHOW UP.

4. "More content now is just more fuel for the trolls. Haters gonna hate"

Yes they will. Sadly this is true. But, the proper response to hate from a troll is not to go find a cave and hide in it. Instead, the proper response is to show proudly your work, be open and transparent, and give the non-haters something they can show all of their non-hating friends. I for one have been dying for this chance since the first documentary came out! What good is watching a movie you can't tell all your friends about later? I experience this a lot with digital content I pay for--it's great to have access to the content and support the creators financially but it SUCKS when you can't share the content with your friends and talk about it. Some of the apps I use disable copy and paste so you can't even quote from a great paid article. What Double Fine has done has said, "we are hard working creative people. We opened our doors and let you in. You had ideas different from ours and we listened. You hurt our feelings sometimes and that makes us want to shut you out, but we didn't. We're still here and we want to find otheir supportive backers like you."

So emphatically, I say to the Nay-Sayers. I get it. But the way to get Double Fine to let us keep doing them with us again and again is to make sure the whole world knows what a great thing this is. So, give away the documentary, or parts of it, or whatever. Let Tim and the team decide.

We heard you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Public release sounds like a great idea. I remember liking that idea in general after watching Lee Petty's wonderful presentation (I forget where but it was posted on Twitter) during which he talked about lessons learned during this experiment. The Agamemnon is what I paid for. The documentary being made, and the excellent work on it by 2PP, has been a massive extra bonus. A bonus that I think the public would appreciate as well.

Now what's the next DF project I can direct my money towards?

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

only good will come by releasing it to the public.

it's great promotion and will support the myth surrounding DFA,

and it's such a valuable insight into game production.

backers have seen and know most of it already,

so feel free to release it.

after all, we won't be mere observers like the public will be,

we will forever be part of it :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Public release sounds like a great idea. I remember liking that idea in general after watching Lee Petty's wonderful presentation (I forget where but it was posted on Twitter) during which he talked about lessons learned during this experiment. The Agamemnon is what I paid for. The documentary being made, and the excellent work on it by 2PP, has been a massive extra bonus. A bonus that I think the public would appreciate as well.

Now what's the next DF project I can direct my money towards?

Thanks!

You're probably thinking of his presentation at

.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am a slacker-backer "and should have very little "say" in anything despite this lengthy sentence saying otherwise", and, so take this with as much or little salt as you please. Eat me for SUPPER if you want, for how annoying I am; but, I probably will care because it will be painful to feel, see, and... smell?

;tldnr

I agree with the paywall and cut content public release.

I also agree with those that will be upset if this does get a public release.

I disagree with a poll, because that feels as if you had very little, if any, say with your investment to begin with.

;tldnr

Therefore, I do not know.

edits:

a few grammar edits

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The documentary was even more interesting to me than the game, so I can see why some people might feel "cheated" if non-backers were able to get it for free. On the other hand though, one of the reasons I backed the project was because I wanted to see it done. If backers hadn't felt that way we wouldn't even be discussing a documentary OR game here because it wouldn't exist.

Just like the fact that the game is going to be made available to a wide audience of customers, the documentary needs to be available to them to. How much DF/2PP chooses to charge (or not charge) at that point is up to them based on their business decision. I don't recall having been promised exclusive access to the documentary, and I think it would be doing the world a dis-service if it was not out there for everyone to see.

Here's to seeing it on Netflix!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it is a great idea to release the documentary. I am in full support of this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One more in support, although I'm biased because I'd rather be able to just watch on YouTube without logging-in to Kickstarter or the forum...

Documentary access came at the cheapest-possible $15 level, *along with the game*. Heck of a deal. I remember being surprised at the time that DF was giving such rewards at such a low tier.

Backers will have also still had access *3 years* before anybody else. That's quite some early access there. Seems to me well-worth the $15, even if you didn't want the game and were only paying for the doc.

(3 years... damn this has been going on a long time... maybe the haters have a point... j/k)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I`m all for it!

Someone will eventually (unfortunately) down the road leak it to youtube, torrent etc. So keeping control over your content and releasing it yourself is a good thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I`m all for it!

Someone will eventually (unfortunately) down the road leak it to youtube, torrent etc. So keeping control over your content and releasing it yourself is a good thing.

By that logic, I suppose they should just go ahead and release the game for free too?

I'm not one of those guys who gave them a bunch of grief about the game being "late." Or about all that nonsense about stealing backer's money - or whatever people got so worked up about... But it does bother me that Double Fine seems to consistently "amend" some of their Kickstarter promises - whenever they think it will profit them to do so...

And I think they know this is kind of a lame thing to do... Otherwise they wouldn't be asking for "permission" to do it.

So anyway. I enjoyed Broken Age, and I'm excited to play the 2nd part. I'm just going to focus on that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm ok if you will post it somewere. I thought of it as a bonus, anyway.

It's not something to be covered from others. Although i doubt that it will help the purpose much. There are a lot of jelous people among those who criticise you. You can try to fight that - it's our right - but i think it'll rather help the purpose to prevent misinformed in falling under "trolls" influence.

I've recently re watched the "Broken Age" trailer - and i want to add that "Broken Age" is an ART. It's out of the computer game boundaries. Its something more. And regardless of what several ungrateful, evil guys say - their words will not represent nor opinion of true admirers nor the value of the product made.

If you'll show those videos - it'll be a good addition to the words of fans and devaluation of the trolls - though they'll always find a way to twist your very words.

Cheers!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bad idea. I backed for the exclusive experience. Not an experience that was time bound and therefore accessible to all = not exclusive. Thumbs down disappointing. Feels like a money grab.

They're thinking of doing it free - not a money grab.

REALLY??? They want to use exclusive content that we paid for as 'free' marketing material to promote the game. No, don't use the exclusive material that we paid for and was promised to the backers. Find an alternative solution. The experience has been interesting up until this announcement. If the exclusive content is no longer exclusive then I will not return to KickStarter for another experience like this. When a person gives their word, it used to mean something. My feedback to the announcement is to keep your word. You got my attention - this is my first posting to the forums.

I can't believe all the sheep in this forum. BAAAAAA!!!!!!!

They actually never said anything about using the exclusive content as a marketing material to promote the game, they wanted to promote the documentary of making a game and the trials it goes through.

You also have to see this is actually a tool to try and fix relationships with individuals that think this game is dead or that Double Fine is always asking for more money thanks to Double Fine staying extra quiet about their game because they've tried to honor the idea of a private experience of this game's development with the backers. Being totally private and honoring our agreement has actually hurt this company that you like/love. It actually took balls to not cave in and show the documentary episodes to everyone when video game publications were stating "Tim Schafer is asking for more money for Kickstarter project." Their dedication to their promise to you up to this point earns the ability to release the episodes slowly on YouTube if you ask me. They're not going to be able to download them in 720 or 1080 like we can, they won't get the documentary soundtrack or all the other perks.

Double Fine have done that, and they will continue to do that. All Double Fine is going to do is release the previous episodes on YouTube up to this point, slowly. We're going to get any of this content before the general public and all of the videos up to this point have been months or years old, all they do is allow people to understand where Double Fine are in the development and how they've never asked for more money from us.

In addition, you should absolutely return to Kickstarter any time you want. Double Fine has no association with Kickstarter aside from Kickstarter projects they put there. I don't see why you'd be angry at Kickstarter for Double Fine doing this.

I completely disagree. In fact, I see this as a tool that will create further PR damage. Many posts are questioning the true value it will return. What a mess. This overall project will create a great HBR case study. I look forward to seeing how this plays out. Now I know how Lando Calrissian felt when the terms of the agreement were changed. It's best when contracts are not changed by one party.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I`m all for it!

Someone will eventually (unfortunately) down the road leak it to youtube, torrent etc. So keeping control over your content and releasing it yourself is a good thing.

By that logic, I suppose they should just go ahead and release the game for free too?

And what if they did? I don't see how it would benefit Double Fine, but I also don't see how it would harm me in the slightest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this