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I played the original release on steam and now I just played through the newest version this weekend. The game is much better and much more balanced and fun with a lot of options.

The only real problem I had was with advanced cradles. I met them fairly early (year 185?) and I thought at that year they were quite tough. Battles with 5+ cradles take a very long time. I would suggest introducing advanced cradles at year 250+. And limiting spawns to two for normal battles. The last battle also is much harder and tricky with the cradles spawning seeds on death. It's hectic, but it feels right for the last battle.

I read the suggestion about having a recruit event at year 30 or 50. I think this might help early game. So maybe something at year 30, 80, and 150, then let the players deal with it after that. It seems that without the fertility boost research, three keeps just isn't enough to provide you with enough non crappy heroes. It would also be a good way to have more than three bloodlines. Right now it is really hard to get high level heroes who are not from your three main bloodlines. I think the game would be more interesting if you could only have one keep per bloodline, but right now it's very difficult to do.

My other observations/suggestions, all just minor points

***Early and mid game I felt like I was lacking hit points. Maybe extra hit points for levels 1-5?

***Normal twitchers feel quite weak when introduced. They only cause problems when they chain teleport stun. Ex: One twitcher teleports and stuns, causing another twitcher to activate and teleport and stun, etc So maybe they need and extra 10-15 hp.

***Bulwarks seem much much easier than the original version, were they nerfed? I like how they are now. They were too annoying and hard at level 50 before.

***Killing multiple enemies with flasks, seems to often not display the correct experience (for example killing enemies that are not visible). I'm not sure if you actually receive the experience or not

***I still think a message to say that the spouse of a dead regent returns to the hero pool, would make it more clear what happens to them

***Classes seem pretty balanced. A lot of variety I think hunters were originally over-nerfed, but everything feels right now

***I love the addition of the global fertility and armor boost and generally I like the class weapon and armor boosts

***If the regent dies and there are no children at the keep, I still think it would be good to be able to change bloodlines of the keep

***Individual weapon research seems a little bit too expensive (for example the barb bow, timefist, etc), having relics makes these weapons unnecessary, so the research times don't seem worth it.

*** I think the random events kind of take away from the game, some of the effects are too strong IMO. For example losing a sagewright guild.

*** Mid and late game, buildings take a little too long to build. (especially keeps). I had one of my territories open at year 300. WIth two sagewright guilds with high level intuition everything was taking over 20 years. I would have expected under 15 years.

*** At year 300, I had level 9 and level 10 heroes. When I played the older version I had all level 10 heroes by year 220 or so. So I think the experience gain is just about right. I also didn't notice the experience boost research until year 260 or so. I also didn't research experience scarves.

*** The last battle felt just right to me. A little challenging and chaotic, mainly due to the cradles and spawning of seeds on death.

*** If there is ever an expansion I think added different relic types and relic armor would add variety to the game.

*** Seems to be not enough time to research and experiment with the "other" items. I got through fine with vitabands, health/ultra flasks, and the accuracy item. Items might take a little too long to research to encourage experimentation.

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Hello again! Sorry I came into this thread and then bailed! I was playing the game A TON this weekend to get my own feedback. :D

So you guys were asking for things that would be easy to fix. Basically any number in a spreadsheet is "easy" to fix. Some have crazy repercussions (like base damage on a weapon, the XP curve numbers, etc) but some are very isolated and are pretty easy to tune independent of other things (like the amount of time a single item takes to research). Other things that would be easy on strategy:

-Research times.

-Requirements for tech tree.

-Time multiplier for additional buildings and hero recruitment.

-Research credits (now that we have them!)

Things that are hard - basically anything else. :( Most suggestions are going to require gameplay programming in order to shift things around. Something like adding an additional research pipeline would be crazy hard at this point. Adding a new ability to a class's tree. Adding new ability to an enemy. Etc.

These are time consuming and the worst part is that they will come with their own bugs! Sometimes they are insidious and you don't even see them until much later. Have you seen the "Zombie Advanced Twitcher" bug? This happened because I took a very tested ability (the Caberjack's "Stand Ground") and applied it to an enemy. It sucks that there's fallout like this even with simple things!

So if we can keep suggestions to just number things that would be great! :D

P.S. I think we really did overnerf Hunters. Expect a buff! :D!

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Hello again! Sorry I came into this thread and then bailed! I was playing the game A TON this weekend to get my own feedback. :D

So you guys were asking for things that would be easy to fix. Basically any number in a spreadsheet is "easy" to fix. Some have crazy repercussions (like base damage on a weapon, the XP curve numbers, etc) but some are very isolated and are pretty easy to tune independent of other things (like the amount of time a single item takes to research). Other things that would be easy on strategy:

-Research times.

-Requirements for tech tree.

-Time multiplier for additional buildings and hero recruitment.

-Research credits (now that we have them!)

Things that are hard - basically anything else. :( Most suggestions are going to require gameplay programming in order to shift things around. Something like adding an additional research pipeline would be crazy hard at this point. Adding a new ability to a class's tree. Adding new ability to an enemy. Etc.

These are time consuming and the worst part is that they will come with their own bugs! Sometimes they are insidious and you don't even see them until much later. Have you seen the "Zombie Advanced Twitcher" bug? This happened because I took a very tested ability (the Caberjack's "Stand Ground") and applied it to an enemy. It sucks that there's fallout like this even with simple things!

So if we can keep suggestions to just number things that would be great! :D

P.S. I think we really did overnerf Hunters. Expect a buff! :D!

I would love to know your feedback, and I agree with Hunters. Did you find that it was tough to research items give the current research curve? Do you think faster items would help?

P.s. My grandpa just died today at 90. Oddly got me thinking of bloodlines. He was a good guy and did a lot, I like to think passed on a relic.

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Hello again! Sorry I came into this thread and then bailed! I was playing the game A TON this weekend to get my own feedback. :D

So you guys were asking for things that would be easy to fix. Basically any number in a spreadsheet is "easy" to fix. Some have crazy repercussions (like base damage on a weapon, the XP curve numbers, etc) but some are very isolated and are pretty easy to tune independent of other things (like the amount of time a single item takes to research). Other things that would be easy on strategy:

-Research times.

-Requirements for tech tree.

-Time multiplier for additional buildings and hero recruitment.

-Research credits (now that we have them!)

Things that are hard - basically anything else. :( Most suggestions are going to require gameplay programming in order to shift things around. Something like adding an additional research pipeline would be crazy hard at this point. Adding a new ability to a class's tree. Adding new ability to an enemy. Etc.

These are time consuming and the worst part is that they will come with their own bugs! Sometimes they are insidious and you don't even see them until much later. Have you seen the "Zombie Advanced Twitcher" bug? This happened because I took a very tested ability (the Caberjack's "Stand Ground") and applied it to an enemy. It sucks that there's fallout like this even with simple things!

So if we can keep suggestions to just number things that would be great! :D

P.S. I think we really did overnerf Hunters. Expect a buff! :D!

Okay. I think a buff to Hunters might help address one of my increasingly repetitive complaints about Seeds (that Slippery just doesn't make sense anymore). I do hope you can take it off, you might not need to adjust Hunters all that much if they can at least become just as effective against all enemies, especially in the early game. Sorry to hear that changing up abilities isn't easy, I'll try not to harp about the Trickshot any longer.

Stand your ground bugged one of my Heroes as well - Zombie Enforcer won a totally unattainable fight against Advanced Bulwarks, Cradles, and Advanced Wrinkles.

Research times. The improvements to base weapons are really desirable on Hard difficulty, but definitely not worth the time investment. Recovering from lost keeps by building more keeps is (I'm now in agreement with the majority) pretty brutal, especially if you have a bad start on Hard. They are so essential to the game that I even started to think that pausing the research on buildings (keeps/sagewrights) would be a great boon to the game-play experience. I hope that a balance can be found to keep the challenge. *ahem*

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Hello again! Sorry I came into this thread and then bailed! I was playing the game A TON this weekend to get my own feedback. :D

So you guys were asking for things that would be easy to fix. Basically any number in a spreadsheet is "easy" to fix. Some have crazy repercussions (like base damage on a weapon, the XP curve numbers, etc) but some are very isolated and are pretty easy to tune independent of other things (like the amount of time a single item takes to research). Other things that would be easy on strategy:

-Research times.

-Requirements for tech tree.

-Time multiplier for additional buildings and hero recruitment.

-Research credits (now that we have them!)

Things that are hard - basically anything else. :( Most suggestions are going to require gameplay programming in order to shift things around. Something like adding an additional research pipeline would be crazy hard at this point. Adding a new ability to a class's tree. Adding new ability to an enemy. Etc.

These are time consuming and the worst part is that they will come with their own bugs! Sometimes they are insidious and you don't even see them until much later. Have you seen the "Zombie Advanced Twitcher" bug? This happened because I took a very tested ability (the Caberjack's "Stand Ground") and applied it to an enemy. It sucks that there's fallout like this even with simple things!

So if we can keep suggestions to just number things that would be great! :D

P.S. I think we really did overnerf Hunters. Expect a buff! :D!

Right, well sticking purely to numbers:

1) Not enough wiggle room in the tech tree, maybe tune down the cost on the accessories and weapons. Can't see them making the game too easy, and seems like it would allow for more experimentation.

2) The extra build time on the second Sagewrights guild and possibly crucibles seems really high. Especially with the sagewrights guild, seems hard to justify spending 30 years on getting a reduction in research time. Hard to make up those kind of time debts over the course of a 300 year game.

3) Can you tweak the gender ratios? Seems surprisingly easy to end up really quite far out of balance, even in raw recruitment I have had some very unbalanced numbers. Which only exacerbated my kingdoms gender problems.

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So you guys were asking for things that would be easy to fix. Basically any number in a spreadsheet is "easy" to fix. Some have crazy repercussions (like base damage on a weapon, the XP curve numbers, etc) but some are very isolated and are pretty easy to tune independent of other things (like the amount of time a single item takes to research). Other things that would be easy on strategy:

-Research times.

-Requirements for tech tree.

-Time multiplier for additional buildings and hero recruitment.

-Research credits (now that we have them!)

Let me be the first to say that I love the research credits! With that in mind . . . research credits based on type of cadence corpses needed would be fun. This could group research across broad areas that would make it easier to explore the tech tree. Research veil armor? Now it's quicker to get the experience scarf or experience boost! Research the Bone Barb bow? Now it's easier to get Bone Shell Armor or Armor boost! This would also encourage people to try out certain items during one game, but try out another group in another.

It would also be nice if the Cadence weapons were more powerful and there were advanced versions--they involve giving up the possibility of a relic after all! Maybe they are ahead of the curve for the first 150 years, but you need to research an advanced version later on to be more effective, which would be research time you can't use for something else.

Reduce keep build time or have a research which resets keep build time (e.g. Efficient construction) I just really want it to be a good idea to build more keeps ;)

Show all research options from the start or show that a prereq research will open them up I often don't notice the nation research options until much later and . . . they generally aren't worthwhile by the end (I guess armor boost). Maybe just a notice that they have become available? I tend to also think that these researches really don't need to be tied to Advanced Cadence kills if the research time is enough. The choice, for example, to give up research time to a Fertility boost at the beginning of the game is an interesting one because it will put you behind on the arms race, but potentially pay in dividends in the population size later on.

And once again: Regular hero pilgrimages to the capital to give free new bloodlines for the first 100 years This could be adjusted in the difficulty levels, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread.

On that note, it's always felt a bit weird to Recruit Heroes, isn't it more Discovering New Bloodlines?

Anyway, I've got ten more years to 300, so we'll see if I have time to finish tonight and give my final comments.

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Year 300 (Normal/Non-Ironmode)

Two territories lost; two with two strikes.

I pushed through through my potential game-ending Queenmaker bottleneck. One recruit hero research got me two partners (one with Kingmaker) and I brought a single male heir for a bloodline onto the field. This managed to salvage the families and start producing slightly more males.

Advanced Pawns

Wrinklers: I've dealt with these quickly and researched Wunderpants to alleviate potential harm to my lines. As a result, I haven't seen their fury. Visually, I come down with the bulwarks--they just don't look that much more distinct from their weaker relatives. It's the similar coloring, I think!

Lapses: Huge surprise from their damage. After spending most the game as one of the weakest hitters, they pack a punch. Do Wunderpants protect against the cooldown? I didn't notice it at all and all my heroes had Wunderpants everytime I ran into them. Maybe . . .it shouldn't protect against that if it does?

Twitchers: Advanced visuals are fine--the winners are still clearly the cradles and ruptures. The Stand Ground didn't have much of an impact. One appeared in the second to last battle and a bunch in the final battle, but by then my level 10 caberjacks were killing 8 to 10 pawns a turn. Who needs knockback when you can just kill?

In the early 200s, I finally had a level with a ton of basic versions and it was fantastic! They spread the troops out, usually knock at least one hero out per turn, and force you to really think about the best way to approach the level.

Tactical

Battle difficulty is finally made it back to a challenging level around 230 (meaning I had a run of about 160 years where the battles weren't that much of a challenge), but this fell of again before 290 with all my level 10 heroes. Difficulty seems to line up with the mixture of heavy hitters and more support pawns that generate. Maybe the randomness of the pawns being fought is too wide? It's always disappointing when there is only one heavy hitter appearing on the field. When a level says Twitchers, I like to see at least three!

It's really frustrating to not be able to tab between heroes from the info screen on the battlefield. The same goes for the Vanguard screen prior to battle).

Kill Rage in the caberjacks seems insanely overpowered. In the final battle, I would just soften up the big enemies with an Alchemist and then have a blastcapper clear an entire side. I took one entire wave out in one turn!

Someone mentioned putting the region you're in under the Year and Day. I like this idea and it fits in with putting the info up there for livestreaming.

Strategic

It'd really be nice to have a kingdom overview screen that tells me things like total trainees, total of each class, total of each sex, average age or breakdown by age category, etc. The keep overviews don't give enough info to make really informed decisions and I find myself switching between Standard view, Keep view, and Capital view to find all the info I need (and even there there's not enough info). That's frustrating.

Could the perilous core be a thrown item for all classes? Would make it more attractive. Right now, I would never use it.

Wunderpants really doesn't feel like it should offer full protection against Advanced versions. 50% protection with an upgraded version to research?

Final Battle

I took in five level 10 heroes (two Blastcappers, an Alchemist, a Brewtalist, and a Trickshot). All but the Alchemist had level 4 or 5 relics. I didn't lose a single hero and the chalice didn't take a single hit. It felt . . . like a victory lap, but it was frustrating that I didn't get to fall back on my ancestors. I sort of want my heroes to be overwhelmed by the cadence and only succeed because I have my ancestors!

Even knowing that there were five waves, I lost count and had no idea which would be the last one. It really does feel like there should be an indicator.

Final Summary

The tactical level largely feels balanced. Two things feel like they are contributing to a sense of imbalance at all: the randomness of the battles and the research. I don't know the way pawns are distributed in battles, but, as I noted before, the distribution can sometimes feel underwhelming--making for some fantastically tough battles followed by depressingly easy. For me (on normal), the trend tends to be slightly towards the easy side.

I feel like research really put me ahead. I had all of the elite armor by 150 and elite training done by around 200. The armor was the big one because it let me just take and take and take damage. When Advanced Bulwarks come in and pretty much do one or two damage . . . they're not really a problem. And this research priority feels like what I should do. I'd like to feel like I can or should diversify a bit.

Oh, and if it were easier to build more keeps and establish more bloodlines, I'd push back the arms rush to do that :P

Finally, thanks for the great game. I probably won't come back to it until 1.0 (at least for a full playthrough), but it's the first strategy/tactics game to bring me back in on a regular basis since I was a freshman in high school (half a lifetime ago). I love all the different elements and the way they interplay. I like the ways it forces me to adapt to different strengths in my heroes and even different classes. I look forward to the final version!

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I like pretty much all the suggestions in the last couple of posts.

I agree; and I daresay there's a consensus on the two biggest issues in the strategic layer.

1. Research and building are too slow, especially rebuilding destroyed keeps. Items are too slow to research as well.

2. Fertility is too low. We don't have enough heroes to do much selection for traits. The focus is just fertility and levels, which pretty much removes the trait system from the game! Maybe periodic free hero recruitments/pilgrimages would help. Allowing keeps to build faster would help fertility as well.

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I like pretty much all the suggestions in the last couple of posts.

I agree; and I daresay there's a consensus on the two biggest issues in the strategic layer.

1. Research and building are too slow, especially rebuilding destroyed keeps. Items are too slow to research as well.

2. Fertility is too low. We don't have enough heroes to do much selection for traits. The focus is just fertility and levels, which pretty much removes the trait system from the game! Maybe periodic free hero recruitments/pilgrimages would help. Allowing keeps to build faster would help fertility as well.

I think this sounds about right so far...

Smiles

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I like pretty much all the suggestions in the last couple of posts.

I agree; and I daresay there's a consensus on the two biggest issues in the strategic layer.

1. Research and building are too slow, especially rebuilding destroyed keeps. Items are too slow to research as well.

2. Fertility is too low. We don't have enough heroes to do much selection for traits. The focus is just fertility and levels, which pretty much removes the trait system from the game! Maybe periodic free hero recruitments/pilgrimages would help. Allowing keeps to build faster would help fertility as well.

And I'd be okay with fertility as it is if we could start more bloodlines more easily!

(Okay, last comment on that! :P)

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P.s. My grandpa just died today at 90. Oddly got me thinking of bloodlines. He was a good guy and did a lot, I like to think passed on a relic.

Sorry to hear that, man. :( I am grandparent-less at this point and it's pretty weird.

But 90 is such a long time to be alive and I'm glad that you think he lived a solid life! That's really all you can ask for. :'D

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Chad fixed the ZOMBIE-FROM-STAND-GROUND bug for both heroes and Advanced Twitchers. Expect to see that one in the next patch!

I've got a but in there for building construction times. When you lose a building for any reason I want to knock the construction penalty down by 1. This way you can rebuild that Guild or Crucible and it's not as punishing!

I agree that Slippery was giving me fits with my Hunters. I wanted the Trickshot to be more effective against the Cradles but it just wasn't because he was missing perfectly-lined-up Flask Shots against clumped Seeds. We want the Seed to feel anti-Hunter but I'm thinking that the Cradle deathsplosion of Seeds is enough to overwhelm them maybe? I'm going to run this one by the team so no promises but I think it could go a long way. The misses are just very frustrating!

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I was definitely feeling the pain of not being able to research ITEMS. I think that this is the drawback of only having one research pipe. It's hard to find the time to do everything, and it really just railroads you into researching only the things that you *THINK* are compulsory.

The human brain is a terrifyingly nightmarish beast and when you pin it into a corner like this I feel like it tends to FREAK OUT! :D!

I think that some of the feelings of THE ONE TRUE BUILD ORDER for the game are overstated - it looks like there are some differing opinions amongst the hardcore players here. I think that's good!

That being said I just want to be able to get more toys. I think that reducing research times on all of the cool sidegrades is a great idea. Then we'll be looking into buffing (and nerfing!) some items.

Items on my nerf watchlist:

STEADY HANDER

VITALIBAND

(These are both kind of boring wonder-solutions that you can just jam on all of your guys and be content. I would MUCH RATHER see them be crutches/solutions for NERVOUS and SICKLY heroes)

Items on my buff watchlist:

HEALTH VIAL - I just don't think it's doing enough!

SPONGE STONE - I think the penalty is too brutal and it's not really worth it right now. It's cool if your dudes live through an onslaught but sometimes they just get one-shotted because the health penalty is so savage. :(

XP SCARF - It's a good idea but I'm not sure what to do with this guy!

PERILOUS CORE - There's hardly a reason to use this thing! It's only really useful for pure Alchemists and Trickshots that pick up the Throw/Shoot Items Skill. Then it gives you a bonus mega nuke which is kind of sweet. But man it's niche. Looking for ideas here! :D

AGE N RAGE - I'm going to look at the numbers. It has to give a GREAT BONUS (which I think it does?) in order to be worth the drawback.

I think the other ones are in pretty good shape:

ULTRALIXIR

DODGING STOCKINGS

SKIPPING STONE

HASTE HOOCH

WUNDERPANTS

If they were cheaper to get you could actually experiment with some of the niche items which is really good! I don't know why I've been so hesitant to reduce the times. You are limited by the number of slots you can take into battle so promoting item diversity is really great!

I'll probably be looking into a 50% reduction in item costs so that you can snag a bunch of toys.

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Another thing I noticed from my playthrough was that Relics felt weak. They are harder to get and at lvl 1 they're really only giving you +1 to max damage and a 15% chance to crit. And now that they are harder to get and look so damn cool I feel like they should be more powerful and special. Have you guys noticed this? I don't want to overbuff them but I feel like they need to be better at lvl 1! :D!

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ok back to work fixing bugs! Looking forward to coming back to this thread later today! :D!

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Oh one more thing! We're going to rename the difficulty modes!

EASY -> NORMAL

NORMAL -> HARD

HARD -> BRÜTAL

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P.s. My grandpa just died today at 90. Oddly got me thinking of bloodlines. He was a good guy and did a lot, I like to think passed on a relic.

Sorry to hear that, man. :( I am grandparent-less at this point and it's pretty weird.

But 90 is such a long time to be alive and I'm glad that you think he lived a solid life! That's really all you can ask for. :'D

Thanks :)

The human brain is a terrifyingly nightmarish beast and when you pin it into a corner like this I feel like it tends to FREAK OUT! :D!

I think that some of the feelings of THE ONE TRUE BUILD ORDER for the game are overstated - it looks like there are some differing opinions amongst the hardcore players here. I think that's good!

This is true. For example, I think there is a real choice between taking a mega stab at the XP curve or focusing on a steady hero pipeline. But as you say, the real issue is that few of the best strategies involve items right now.

Items on my buff watchlist:

HEALTH VIAL - I just don't think it's doing enough!

SPONGE STONE - I think the penalty is too brutal and it's not really worth it right now. It's cool if your dudes live through an onslaught but sometimes they just get one-shotted because the health penalty is so savage. :(

XP SCARF - It's a good idea but I'm not sure what to do with this guy!

PERILOUS CORE - There's hardly a reason to use this thing! It's only really useful for pure Alchemists and Trickshots that pick up the Throw/Shoot Items Skill. Then it gives you a bonus mega nuke which is kind of sweet. But man it's niche. Looking for ideas here! :D

AGE N RAGE - I'm going to look at the numbers. It has to give a GREAT BONUS (which I think it does?) in order to be worth the drawback.

XP SCARF - I think this (also the Nation XP bonus) would be much more fun if you made it pop up much earlier (like only 5 lapse corpses, or something), especially if it is relatively cheap. I would love to have XP SCARFS in the early game to get a jump on the XP curve, but eventually XP becomes slightly less pressing.

PERILOUS CORE - Some random ideas to make this a strategic option: this might also benefit from being available early on, and/or having a huge damage buff / maybe extra area of effect / it stuns the enemies in addition to damaging them, so it's a virtually assured means of either destroying or neutralizing lots of Pawns. It could be used by a stealth "assassin" to creep up on foes with no allies around and just let loose. I also think it would be cool if you could use it as a free action, like insurance if a twitcher teleports you into a bad area and stuns you, you can at least manage to "flip the switch" and take out some baddies. It actually sounds kind of epic... being surrounded and all alone, going for the sacrifice to save the rest of the team.

Another thing I noticed from my playthrough was that Relics felt weak. They are harder to get and at lvl 1 they're really only giving you +1 to max damage and a 15% chance to crit. And now that they are harder to get and look so damn cool I feel like they should be more powerful and special. Have you guys noticed this? I don't want to overbuff them but I feel like they need to be better at lvl 1! :D!

I haven't finished my latest play through, but others seem to be suggesting that getting to level 10 is tough tough tough. Maybe instead of buffing LVL 1, you could gently bring the curve down slightly, while keeping the relics very rare? That way people could at least get them to LVL 7 or so. But I'm sure whatever you decide here will be great.

Oh one more thing! We're going to rename the difficulty modes!

EASY -> NORMAL

NORMAL -> HARD

HARD -> BRÜTAL

awesome idea!

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I haven't finished my latest play through, but others seem to be suggesting that getting to level 10 is tough tough tough. Maybe instead of buffing LVL 1, you could gently bring the curve down slightly, while keeping the relics very rare? That way people could at least get them to LVL 7 or so. But I'm sure whatever you decide here will be great.

Based on my experience, this is a good idea. I had my relics out of circulation sometimes on regents, but even if they had been in play all the time I think they would only have gotten to level 6.

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Oh one more thing! We're going to rename the difficulty modes!

EASY -> NORMAL

NORMAL -> HARD

HARD -> BRÜTAL

Definitely smart to get rid of the term "easy." People are more likely to try out "normal," get a feel for things, and then determine where they want to go from there. Few people ever start on things labeled "easy," unless you are playing a game for more the story and less the mechanics (which is indeed a valid way to play many games -- especially if you have limited gaming time!)

Smiles

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Another thing I noticed from my playthrough was that Relics felt weak. They are harder to get and at lvl 1 they're really only giving you +1 to max damage and a 15% chance to crit. And now that they are harder to get and look so damn cool I feel like they should be more powerful and special. Have you guys noticed this? I don't want to overbuff them but I feel like they need to be better at lvl 1! :D!

I was totally thinking this exact thing about level 1 relics a few weeks back:

http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewreply/378718/

random thought so I figured necro an old thread I made for random thoughts:

are level 1 relics powerful enough?

now I like the nerf to higher relic xp gain, but I was watching someone play the early access on youtube, and I didnt feel like the relic user (level 1 hero and relic) stood out enough from his puny normal weapon equipped colleagues. I know relics can crit, but if level 1 relics did a bit more damage, they might stick out more in the short term rather than as potential sources of power later.

Also, since higher level relics are harder to get, maybe the damage/crit boost can increase more with later levels?

ITEMS

GENERAL: I think item usage would be increased with more detailed tooltips on what items did, maybe with some numbers. I've never built a PERILOUS CORE. I didn't know you could throw them (that's neat) and I have no idea how much damage they do. I love the idea of an extra super-flask for alchemists with throw item/shoot item, or a self damaging skill for a buff caberjack, but I wasnt going to risk my run on an item whose payoff I was uncertain about.

I never use the STEADY HANDER so I cant comment on if it needs a nerf. I might use it if I could see the numbers.

VITALIBAND and HEALTH VIAL: I love the vitaliband and am not a big fan of the health vial. Probably fair to nerf the latter slightly and buff the former a bit. As it is I rarely use anything besides the vitaliband on my heroes. Part of the advantage of the vitaliband (and the steady hander) is that it's passive and always on. By contrast the health vial takes an action to use. That said, the AOE on throw/shoot items makes a perfect ultralixer worth 125 hp for the team, which is way better than a vitaliband. In the lategame for tough fights I think ultralixers with extra item slot and throw item is the way to go. Part of what makes the health vial so weak is you don't often have throw item in those early fights, which quadruples or quintiples the heal from the vials.

One way to make the steady hander and vitaliband act as bandaids for heroes' weaknesses rather than augments to their strengths is to make them more effective the lower the base stat is.

I think the SPONGE STONE hp decrease was way too huge for people to want to use it. Could use a buff in that aspect. -30% scared me off for sure, although it was nice symmetry with the vitaliband.

I think a 50% research speed buff is dead on. I know I'd take a risk on some items if I could get research two of them between battles. Now I might not even be able to finish researching one!

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Oh one more thing! We're going to rename the difficulty modes!

EASY -> NORMAL

NORMAL -> HARD

HARD -> BRÜTAL

Can we get a 4th even harder difficulty? Pleeeeeeeeeeease? :3 even if its just a numbers tweak

maybe call it BRUTALER? or BREWTALIST :) ?

jokes aside, while experienced with tactics games, I consider myself a pretty mid-skill tactical player and I'm pretty comfortable on current HARD/BRUTAL, which means there are guys out there who will walk all over it. I think that final hardest difficulty level is what keeps people coming back (its what kept me going back to X-COM) and making youtube series about the game and so on.

The strategic layer is tough enough with the extra corruption ticks you start with, but I think the tactics layer could really use the space to go to 11 on the 4th difficulty level. I want a tactics layer so hard there's no savescumming past it. I can get past almost everything in current HARD/BRUTAL with 2 or 3 tries. By contrast even savescumming there was no getting past XCOM Impossible difficulty unless you just got good.

I'd be happy with a 4th difficulty which is just a flat numbers buff for the cadence, but starting cadence off with 1 trait each and giving advanced cadence 2 traits would be really epic. Though I know adding abilities seems to cause bugs and might be asking a lot at this late date.

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Another thing I noticed from my playthrough was that Relics felt weak. They are harder to get and at lvl 1 they're really only giving you +1 to max damage and a 15% chance to crit. And now that they are harder to get and look so damn cool I feel like they should be more powerful and special. Have you guys noticed this? I don't want to overbuff them but I feel like they need to be better at lvl 1! :D!
Fair warning that I've been internet-less for a little while and thus been unable to update to the latest patch. But from my experience pre-0.96, one of the big issues with relics (and I feel like there are a few) is that critting is far and away the most important thing about them, but it's (A) not super interesting, and (B) never predictable. Even at level 10, you're dealing with a coin flip of whether your attack deals the expected damage or double that, which also means that you'll frequently "waste" skills like Follow Up. It's both annoying and impossible to build a strategy around. My personal preference would be to eliminate crits entirely and replace it with something a little more flashy from a planning/customization angle. Options that come to mind:

- Bonus traits!

- Bonus personalities!

- Bonus skill points! A level 10 unit with a level 10 relic gets all of the skills!

- One accessory built-in to the relic

- Automatic class-training for that unit. Build up enough Crossbow relics and you can ignore Hunter training entirely! (If you aren't just ignoring Hunters entirely)

- Reduced cooldown/increased effectiveness for a specific ability

- Just more damage if you are super lame and hate fun :(

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I've got a but in there for building construction times. When you lose a building for any reason I want to knock the construction penalty down by 1. This way you can rebuild that Guild or Crucible and it's not as punishing!

That really does help, but at least for the sagewrights guild they still have an inherent flaw in that they are less valuable the later in the game they are built. Even the first one takes a fair while to build and the time length is fixed. Almost wish that they could be discounted by spending cadence corpses.

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I've got a but in there for building construction times. When you lose a building for any reason I want to knock the construction penalty down by 1. This way you can rebuild that Guild or Crucible and it's not as punishing!

That really does help, but at least for the sagewrights guild they still have an inherent flaw in that they are less valuable the later in the game they are built. Even the first one takes a fair while to build and the time length is fixed. Almost wish that they could be discounted by spending cadence corpses.

Or, fast guild construction, with a base research bonus (even with no sagewrights). 1 sagewright can be assigned to it to increase research bonus.

Then, a new research opens up: Create Lead Sagewright Seat. Doing this one would create a second vacancy in the guild and you could appoint up to 2 sagewrights at a time.

And then, another research after that, to get the third vacancy available.

But that would probably mean changing too much stuff. Forget I mentioned anything, Brad.

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I've got a but in there for building construction times. When you lose a building for any reason I want to knock the construction penalty down by 1. This way you can rebuild that Guild or Crucible and it's not as punishing!

That really does help, but at least for the sagewrights guild they still have an inherent flaw in that they are less valuable the later in the game they are built. Even the first one takes a fair while to build and the time length is fixed. Almost wish that they could be discounted by spending cadence corpses.

Or, fast guild construction, with a base research bonus (even with no sagewrights). 1 sagewright can be assigned to it to increase research bonus.

Then, a new research opens up: Create Lead Sagewright Seat. Doing this one would create a second vacancy in the guild and you could appoint up to 2 sagewrights at a time.

And then, another research after that, to get the third vacancy available.

But that would probably mean changing too much stuff. Forget I mentioned anything, Brad.

That sounds as lovely as it sounds difficult to introduce.

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I was definitely feeling the pain of not being able to research ITEMS. I think that this is the drawback of only having one research pipe. It’s hard to find the time to do everything, and it really just railroads you into researching only the things that you *THINK* are compulsory

Yes! The game is long, so there are certain tech items that I'd like to try out but I worry about the cost of finding that they're not what I hoped for.

What about rewarding certain missions, or perhaps even random events, with item tech? Having the chance to pick up a random item tech upgrade once or twice during a full game might be a nice way to introduce the player to the "road not taken"...

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I recommended this earlier in the week. I still think it's a great idea. Maybe after defending the Sagewright's Guild? Because they're super happy they aren't dead.

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I've got a but in there for building construction times. When you lose a building for any reason I want to knock the construction penalty down by 1. This way you can rebuild that Guild or Crucible and it's not as punishing!

That really does help, but at least for the sagewrights guild they still have an inherent flaw in that they are less valuable the later in the game they are built. Even the first one takes a fair while to build and the time length is fixed. Almost wish that they could be discounted by spending cadence corpses.

Or, fast guild construction, with a base research bonus (even with no sagewrights). 1 sagewright can be assigned to it to increase research bonus.

Then, a new research opens up: Create Lead Sagewright Seat. Doing this one would create a second vacancy in the guild and you could appoint up to 2 sagewrights at a time.

And then, another research after that, to get the third vacancy available.

But that would probably mean changing too much stuff. Forget I mentioned anything, Brad.

You're fired! :D!

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Oh one more thing! We're going to rename the difficulty modes!

EASY -> NORMAL

NORMAL -> HARD

HARD -> BRÜTAL

great!

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