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ThunderPeel

Basic American History to help improve enjoyment of DOTT

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We foreigners did not get taught American history, which means that (I presume) most of us didn't get all the references to Valley Forge, wooden teeth, cherry trees, etc. To be honest, I'm still a little unsure what Founding Father myths are being referenced to at times... So I was wondering if an educated American could help fill in the blanks for us, and give us the Elementary School version of American history that we missed in our childhood (or at least the bits referenced to in DOTT)?

(Googling this stuff is less useful because the real history is usually different -- Washington didn't have wooden teeth, for example, but it's a common myth that he did.)

Thanks!

I'll get the ball rolling:

George Washington and the Cherry Tree

The story goes that a young George was about six years old and had been given a hatchet, which he enthusiastically used to chop at just about anything in sight. One morning, he even chopped at a cherry tree, eventually cutting it down. When confronted about it by his father, George hesitated but told his father, “I cannot tell a lie.” He admitted to the crime. Rather than punishing George for chopping at the tree, his father said that his son’s honesty was worth more than a thousand trees. It’s meant to be a story that’s a lesson in integrity, and shows one of Washington’s many supposed virtues; namely honesty.

Here's the original telling of the story (from Parson Weem's biography "The Life of George Washington" -- as retold by a neighbour to Weems):

The following anecdote is a case in point. It is too valuable to be lost, and too true to be doubted ;

for it. was communicated to me by the same excellent lady to whom I am indebted for the last.

"When George," said she, "was about six years old, he was made the wealthy master of a hatchet!

of which, like most little boys, he was immoderately fond, and was constantly going about chopping every

thing that came in his way. One day, in the garden, where he often amused himself hacking his mother's

pea-sticks, he unluckily tried the edge of his hatchet on the body of a beautiful young English cherry-tree,

which he barked so terribly, that I don't believe the tree ever got the better of it. The next morning the

old gentleman, finding out what had befallen his tree, which, by the by, was a great favourite, came into

the house ; and with much warmth asked for the mischievous author, declaring at the same time, that

he would not have taken five guineas for his tree. Nobody could tell him any thing about it. Presently

George and his hatchet made their appearance. "George," said his father, "do you know who killed

that beautiful little cherry tree yonder in the garden?"

This was a tough question ; and George staggered under it for a moment ; but quickly recovered him-

self: and looking at his father, with the sweet face of youth brightened with the inexpressible charm of all-

conquering truth, he bravely cried out, "I can't tell a lie, Pa ; you know I can't tell a lie. I did cut it

with my hatchet." — Run to my arms, you dearest boy, cried his father in transports, run to my arms ;

glad am I, George, that you killed my tree ; for you have paid me for it a thousand fold. Such an act of

heroism in my son is more worth than a thousand trees, though blossomed with silver, and their fruits

of purest gold."

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Nice! I've seen a few references to George Washington and his need to chop everything in sight in other American media before too. That was a good read though. :)

I've been looking into the stories behind John Hancock's signature on the Declaration of Independence. Now, in DOTT, when asking him about why his signature is so big, he will initially blame astigmatism, followed by a confession that someone once led him to believe that having a large signature will impress the ladies.

I also recall a disclaimer in the DOTT manual about how you shouldn't go mentioning this in a history exam!

Here's an excerpt from www.john-hancock-heritage.com:

The most common legend is that he signed his name bigger than everyone else’s so that the “fat old King could read it without his spectacles”. The fact is that as the president of Congress he was the first person to sign the document and because he was the leader of Congress his signature was centered below the text. According to the National Archives it was customary that other delegates began to sign at the right below the text in geographical order according to the states they represent. The northernmost state, New Hampshire began and ended with Georgia, the southernmost.

Also, here's a fun article I found on another site:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history/2014/08/john_hancock_s_declaration_of_independence_signature_was_it_too_big.html

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That's all well and good'n all but...

the real question here is:

Did Hancock have a color blind aunt Hattie!?!?!?

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Ben Franklin the Yankee

To foreigners, "yankee" may simply mean "American", but historically in the US it refers to New Englanders. Ben Franklin is considered the prototypical Yankee, which explains why "Yankee Doodle" is played over one of his cutscenes.

[NOTE: I may have over-simplified or got this a bit wrong, so any Americans please feel free to correct me!]

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As an American, I look forward to seeing your theories instead of us filling you in.

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Ben Franklin the Yankee

To foreigners, "yankee" may simply mean "American", but historically in the US it refers to New Englanders. Ben Franklin is considered the prototypical Yankee, which explains why "Yankee Doodle" is played over one of his cutscenes.

[NOTE: I may have over-simplified or got this a bit wrong, so any Americans please feel free to correct me!]

As an American, I don't think this is quite right. To Americans, Yankee means "northerner." This became a much bigger deal during/following the Civil War, when the country was pretty much split along geographic lines: The Union (The North) and The Confederacy (The South). At the time it was probably seen as quite pejorative, but these days it isn't really.

I've never head anything suggesting that Ben Franklin is a "prototypical" Yankee. I think the usage of Yankee Doodle in his cutscene is just due to it being an old patriotic song from around the time period. Using bits of different songs like that is something that Carl Stalling (of Looney Tunes fame) is really famous for, and I'm assuming the DOTT composers were paying tribute to that.

One quick disclaimer: Everything I just typed is right off the top of my head. I didn't do any research here, because my understanding is we're trying to talk about American conceptions of things, rather than things as they really are.

One other quick disclaimer: The US is a huge country, and just because these are my conceptions of how things are, it doesn't necessarily follow that other Americans would be in total agreement.

Also, if you've got any questions about something else, feel free to post them here. Sometimes the American-specific jokes are so obvious to us Americans that we don't realize how much cultural information they require to understand.

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Ben Franklin the Yankee

To foreigners, "yankee" may simply mean "American", but historically in the US it refers to New Englanders. Ben Franklin is considered the prototypical Yankee, which explains why "Yankee Doodle" is played over one of his cutscenes.

[NOTE: I may have over-simplified or got this a bit wrong, so any Americans please feel free to correct me!]

"Yankee" has connotations across two significant wars. In the revolutionary war, the song Yankee Doodle was used by the redcoats/brits to mock and ridicule the Americans. The song is actually of British origin. But since the Americans were ultimately the victors in the revolution, the song found new purpose as a patriotic song. "Yank" is still used by Brits as a term for Americans to this day and has a pejorative connotation. (Pejorative when used by Brits, which is funny, because it doesn't exactly make Americans cry. It can also be used pseudo-pejoratively. My best friend on earth is a Brit, and she refers to me as "yank" now and then for good fun. Then I accuse her of being a sore loser vis-a-vis the revolution, etc. Good times.)

Later, when America had its Civil War, the word "Yank" was used to refer to someone from the northern, non-confederate states (especially but not exclusively the New England area), who fought to preserve the union by coercing the confederate states to get back in line. There again the "yanks" proved the victors and preserved the union, which reinforced the patriotic sense of the word within the US, but also gave it the new meaning of "northerner, i.e. a person not from the south and not familiar or not sympathetic to southern culture/customs". So in that sense it can also be used pejoratively by American southerners to refer to northerners.

I don't think that Americans consider Ben Franklin to be the prototypical yankee. I think the usage of the song there just boils down to two things:

1. Ben Franklin is considered one of the founding fathers of America (indeed, he is on our $100)

2. "Yankee Doodle" is taught to children as a generally patriotic song, similar to "America The Beautiful" or "Hail To The Chief" or "You're A Grand Old Flag" among others. "Yankee Doodle" does, however, date to Ben Franklin's time period.

I think in this case it was just a matter of pairing up a recognizable (to Americans) patriotic song with a recognizable (to Americans) founding father.

In other words, it's all just American iconography. I don't think the pairing is necessarily meaningful.

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I have never heard about the song being used by the British during the revolutionary war or that the outcome of the war turned it into a patriotic song. Do you have a source on this?

I quickly looked it up on Wikipedia, which suggests that it was used by the British to deride colonial troops during the Seven Years War, but that by the time of the Revolutionary War, the colonies had already co-opted it.

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I have never heard about the song being used by the British during the revolutionary war or that the outcome of the war turned it into a patriotic song. Do you have a source on this?

I quickly looked it up on Wikipedia, which suggests that it was used by the British to deride colonial troops during the Seven Years War, but that by the time of the Revolutionary War, the colonies had already co-opted it.

It was a song used by the British to mock colonials, which then became an American patriotic song. Whether it started in the seven years war or was co-opted before or after the start of the revolution, you're talking a time period of about 20-ish years. You can nitpick me about the exact moment it went from a mocking song to a patriotic song, but the gist of what I said is still true and in the same relative time period.

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You seem to have taken offense at what I said. Sorry about that. I wasn't at all trying to insult you or your information. Whenever I receive information that conflicts with my own personal store of knowledge, the first thing I do is attempt to find out the source of the new data.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all about the song's British origin. The 20 or so years difference in time period didn't really even draw my attention. What did was the draw my attention was difference between the British mocking their colonial allies (in the Seven Years War), and the British mocking their opponents (in the Revolutionary War).

Regardless, as I said, no offense meant.

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Here's Hancock's signature so you can appreciate it fully:

130226-john-hancock-hmed-350p.660;660;7;70;0.jpg

Any more things? Valley Forge is mentioned a lot. As is the myth that Washington had wooden teeth -- in real life they were fake... but made of whale bone.

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You seem to have taken offense at what I said. Sorry about that. I wasn't at all trying to insult you or your information. Whenever I receive information that conflicts with my own personal store of knowledge, the first thing I do is attempt to find out the source of the new data.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all about the song's British origin. The 20 or so years difference in time period didn't really even draw my attention. What did was the draw my attention was difference between the British mocking their colonial allies (in the Seven Years War), and the British mocking their opponents (in the Revolutionary War).

Regardless, as I said, no offense meant.

Eh, don't worry. I think in this case I just overreacted to your post. I did sorta get the impression that you were trying to go smarty-pants on me, and I have a low threshold for smarty-pantsing, so this is probably a case of me shooting first and asking questions later.

I have always understood it as a song of British origin used to mock colonials, and my understanding is that it was also used in the way during the Revolution, which would make perfect sense, but I can't give you a specific source on it.

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Any more things? Valley Forge is mentioned a lot.

Just looking up information on Valley Forge now. Probably haven't found anything new to Americans who remember their school history classes, but I'll post a bit for fellow non-Americans.

Valley Forge comes up in DOTT in a few conversations when you are trying to convince Thomas Jefferson to build a fire. Ultimately, Jefferson will only give up his precious log for the fire if George Washington appears to be too cold. After all, it takes a LOT for him to be too cold, and that's all thanks to the winter he spent in Valley Forge.

Why did George Washington stay at Valley Forge?

Valley Forge was the location of the American army's camp during the winter of 1777/78, during the American Revolutionary War. General George Washington and his troops were forced to live in some very harsh conditions. Many of the troops actually lost their lives due to the conditions they were facing (not just the weather, but starvation, disease, and malnutrition too).

Some info from Wikipedia (don't worry - it's been referenced!):

Starvation, disease, malnutrition, and exposure killed nearly 2,500 American soldiers by the end of February 1778.

On December 19, 1777, when Washington's poorly fed, ill-equipped army, weary from long marches, staggered into Valley Forge, winds blew as the 12,000 Continentals prepared for winter's fury. Only about one in three of them had shoes, and many of Kobe's -feet had left bloody footprints from the marching.

... These huts provided sufficient protection from the moderately cold, but mainly wet and damp conditions of a typical Pennsylvania winter of 1777–1778.

Undernourished and poorly clothed, living in crowded, damp quarters, the army was ravaged by sickness and disease. Typhoid, typhus, smallpox, dysentery, and pneumonia were among the numerous diseases that thrived in the camp during that winter. These diseases, along with malnutrition and exposure to the freezing temperatures and snow, contributed to the 2,500 soldiers that died by the end of the winter.

The winter at Valley Forge imbued into soldiers a strong will to persevere, endure, and later triumph over obstacles and bring independence to the United States. Washington always acknowledged that the perseverance gained by the soldiers at Valley Forge was what made the Continental Army bind together even stronger and eventually win the war.

These conditions are just unimaginable for most of us, I'm sure, and you had to be tough to survive. Of course, DOTT does not go into too much detail about this time (wouldn't fit in with the game's atmosphere, would it?) and refers to it light-heartedly (e.g. Washington's line about how his spit would freeze before it hit the ground).

No wonder everyone thinks Hancock is a wimp for being too cold with his blanket and coat on!

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Woo! Thanks for sharing that!

It's a shame more Yanks (ahem) aren't sharing their collective interpretation. As I say, DOTT bases its history on an Elementary School version of history. Ie. The commonly shared myths that, when examined more closely, are more complex, or just not true. If we non-Americans had been exposed to this sort of thing younger, the myths would have been ingrained -- but coming at it from an outsider/adult perspective, you can easily bogged down in the nitty gritty details (like the number of deaths at Valley Forge) and missing the myth completely (George Washington spent an incredibly harsh winter with a revolutionary army at Valley Forge -- and survived).

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The Pony Express

When Hoagie places a letter in the mailbox outside the mansion, a man on horseback zooms by instantly to pick up the letter, and Hoagie comments "ooh, the Pony Express!" The Pony Express became a legend for its speedy mail delivery across the continental United States.

The Pony Express was a mail service delivering messages, newspapers, mail, and small packages from St. Joseph, Missouri, across the Great Plains, over the Rocky Mountains and the Sierra Nevada to Sacramento, California, by horseback, using a series of relay stations... During its 18 months of operation, it reduced the time for messages to travel between the Atlantic and Pacific coasts to about 10 days. From April 3, 1860, to October 1861, it became the West's most direct means of east–west communication before the telegraph was established and was vital for tying the new state of California with the rest of the United States.

Benjamin Franklin and the Kite Experiment

I guess you probably don't have to be American to know that Benjamin Franklin is said to have "discovered electricity" by flying a kite in a storm.

In 1750, Franklin published a proposal for an experiment to prove that lightning is electricity by flying a kite in a storm that appeared capable of becoming a lightning storm. On May 10, 1752, Thomas-François Dalibard of France conducted Franklin's experiment using a 40-foot-tall (12 m) iron rod instead of a kite, and he extracted electrical sparks from a cloud. On June 15 Franklin may possibly have conducted his well known kite experiment in Philadelphia, successfully extracting sparks from a cloud... If Franklin did perform this experiment, he may not have done it in the way that is often described—flying the kite and waiting to be struck by lightning—as it would have been dangerous. Instead he used the kite to collect some electric charge from a storm cloud, which implied that lightning was electrical.

Betsy Ross and the American Flag

According to legend, George Washington asked a Philadelphia seamstress to create the first American flag from his sketches. Betsy Ross did sew flags during the Revolutionary War, but historians consider the tale to be folklore and agree that the design was probably proposed by a lawyer, artist, and patriot named Francis Hopkinson.

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All of you non-Americans are doing such a good job here, that there's not much for us Americans to chip in with. :)

You've got the Elementary school version of the events down pretty well:

Valley Forge was cold. The Pony Express delivered mail quickly. Ben Franklin got a kite it struck by lightening and "discovered" electricity. Betsy Ross sewed the first American flag.

You've also got more detail about the actual historical events themselves. Well done!

I haven't play DOTT in a few years (and I'd kind of like it to be fresh for the remaster), so I'm not sure what all else there is in there. I seem to remember a discussion with Hancock about how he wants the turkey to be America's national bird instead of the bald eagle. I think he says that Franklin agrees with him on this. There is an American myth that says that Franklin wanted the turkey to be our national bird. It's not really true, although Franklin did once mention in hindsight that he didn't like the eagle being our national bird. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/american-myths-benjamin-franklins-turkey-and-the-presidential-seal-6623414

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Just watched a Youtube video for a couple minutes and saw something else. If Hoagie looks at Thomas Jefferson, he says, "If I had a nickel for every time I've seen that face..."

First off, I'm not sure if it's an American expression or just an English-language expression, but the phrase "If I had a nickel for every time [instead event here]..." is a phrase that people often use to refer to something that has occurred many times. (The full idiom ends with "I'd be a millionaire," but we rarely say the whole thing.)

The historical joke is that Jefferson's face is featured on the American nickel (5¢ piece).

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Haha, I had a feeling that was the joke but it's good to have it confirmed. ^^

I was aware that George Washington was on the $1 bill and Benjamin Franklin was on the $100, but apparently Thomas Jefferson is also on the $2 bill. Washington also appears on the quarter.

Can't remember off the top of my head if any more references are made to the Founding Fathers appearing on money, but if there is anything else, then hopefully this information will be useful!

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Re. Franklin being the prototypical Yankee, thanks for the corrections. You do get a few results if you google "Ben Franklin father of Yankees" or "Ben Franklin prototypical Yankee" but it seems it's a relatively obscure connection for the song choice to have been such a precise reference. However, the deeper meaning of the term and the history of the song, and therefore the appropriateness of the choice, is still something I originally missed as a Brit.

Re. the kite experiment, one thing I did notice as a kid was that the super-battery looks somewhat like a key; as a key was supposedly attached to the kite string for Franklin's actual experiment (although this stuff is all questioned), I thought this was a pretty clever little gag.

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There are several American patriotic songs woven into the soundtrack. The music in the room with the founding fathers anachronistically features a few bars of The Battle Hymn of the Republic.

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All of you non-Americans are doing such a good job here, that there's not much for us Americans to chip in with. :)

You've got the Elementary school version of the events down pretty well:

Valley Forge was cold. The Pony Express delivered mail quickly. Ben Franklin got a kite it struck by lightening and "discovered" electricity. Betsy Ross sewed the first American flag.

You've also got more detail about the actual historical events themselves. Well done!

I haven't play DOTT in a few years (and I'd kind of like it to be fresh for the remaster), so I'm not sure what all else there is in there. I seem to remember a discussion with Hancock about how he wants the turkey to be America's national bird instead of the bald eagle. I think he says that Franklin agrees with him on this. There is an American myth that says that Franklin wanted the turkey to be our national bird. It's not really true, although Franklin did once mention in hindsight that he didn't like the eagle being our national bird. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/american-myths-benjamin-franklins-turkey-and-the-presidential-seal-6623414

So, just to push the legends (which I've heard so many times, I want to believe is true):

Benjamin Franklin wanted America's national bird to be the turkey

and the fact that

Thomas Jefferson’s face is featured on the nickel

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Re. the kite experiment, one thing I did notice as a kid was that the super-battery looks somewhat like a key; as a key was supposedly attached to the kite string for Franklin's actual experiment (although this stuff is all questioned), I thought this was a pretty clever little gag.

Yes, I forgot about the key. I never quite understood the need for a key.

Here's what Ben Franklin wrote about his experiment:

Make a small cross of two light strips of cedar, the arms so long as to reach to the four corners of a large thin silk handkerchief when extended; tie the corners of the handkerchief to the extremities of the cross, so you have the body of a kite; which being properly accommodated with a tail, loop, and string, will rise in the air, like those made of paper; but this being of silk is fitter to bear the wet and wind of a thunder gust without tearing. To the top of the upright stick of the cross is to be fixed a very sharp pointed wire, rising a foot or more above the wood. To the end of the twine, next the key may be fastened. This kite is to be raised when a thunder-gust appears to be coming on, and the person who holds the string must stand within a door or window, or under some cover, so that the silk ribbon may not be wet; and care must be taken that the twine does not touch the frame of the door or window. As soon as any of the thunder clouds come over the kite, the pointed wire will draw the electric fire from them, and the kite, with all the twine, will be electrified, and the loose filaments of the twine, will stand out every way, and be attracted by an approaching finger. And when the rain has wetted the kite and twine, so that it can conduct the electric fire freely, you will find it stream out plentifully from the key on the approach of your knuckle. At this key the phial may be charged: and from electric fire thus obtained, spirits may be kindled, and all the other electric experiments be performed, which are usually done by the help of a rubbed glass globe or tube, and thereby the sameness of the electric matter with that of lightning completely demonstrated.

http://www.ushistory.org/franklin/info/kite.htm

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I'm going to revive this topic because I think we need something DOTT-related to talk about again.

I was wondering, do we know exactly which years DOTT is set during? I think the usual assumption is 1793, 1993, and 2193. Logical because the game was released in 1993. But, something I noticed during the game was that when Laverne looks at the sign above the time capsule, she reads that it was actually buried in 1790. Maybe the present day events are set in 1990 (with the events of Maniac Mansion being set in 1985?), which would mean that Hoagie would have been sent back to 1790. Or of course, maybe the present is still set in 1993, but Hoagie and Laverne were not necessarily sent exactly two hundred years away.

Anyway, no matter which year all these historical events happened in the DOTT canon, I thought I'd try finding out when each of them happened in reality and put together a little timeline. Here's what I've got...

(Disclaimer: I may have been looking on Wikipedia)

The Kite Experiment

Benjamin Franklin got his proposal regarding the experiment published in 1750. He's thought to have completed the experiment on 15th June 1752. Also, Franklin died in 1790.

Obviously, all of this happened much later in the events of DOTT, where he is experimenting (and alive!) in what is believed to be the 1790s.

The First American Flag

Sewn by Betsy Ross in 1776. By 1777, it looked like this:

150px-US_flag_13_stars_–_Betsy_Ross.svg.png

By the time Hoagie meets her, she's got a few designs lying around, so this makes sense.

Valley Forge

George and the army spent the winter here 1777-1778.

This gets referred to in DOTT, where it has already happened. So this is accurate.

United States Constitution

Created: 17th September, 1787

Ratified: 21st June 1788

Not far off! Or maybe Hoagie did just travel a little over 200 years away from the present, and he is actually in 1787.

However, there is a different inaccuracy. In reality, Jefferson was not in America when the Constitution was written, and Hancock did not attend the Constitution Convention either.

First President of the United States

George Washington became president on 30th April 1789.

My memory's a bit foggy here so I'll check later, but I think Hoagie asks him "weren't you president or something?" and George replies that he expects to be elected president. This suggests that the events in the past happen just a little before this happens.

The Star Spangled Banner

Betsy Ross updated the American Flag in 1795. At this point it had 15 stars and 15 stripes.

It looked like this:

150px-US_flag_15_stars.svg.png

Or maybe this:

hqdefault.jpg

So if Hoagie is in the early 1790s then Betsy is working a bit ahead of time. Then again, maybe it's just taking her a really long time to get the flag finished. That's what happens when the Founding Fathers keep changing their minds about the design!

The Pony Express

This mail service was active from 1860 to 1861.

A long time after Hoagie was there, and the rest of the events in this timeline!

So yeah, some of them are pretty accurate and believable, while others happened at very different times. Overall, to be fair, I think they did a pretty good job. There are the inaccuracies that Jefferson and Hancock were writing the Constitution, but as far as the timeline itself goes, the only things really inaccurate were the much earlier kite experiment and the much later Pony Express. Otherwise, the timing of the other events more or less add up.

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Hi everyone, I thought it might be nice to have everything written up for reference somewhere, so I've started a series of blogs (currently only two parts) where people can peruse the (ahem) "imaginative" version of American history that is so commonly held in the public mind, and which is referenced to throughout Day of the Tentacle:

http://thunderpeel2001.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/day-of-tentacle-history-lesson-part-1.html

I'll finish up Part Two, tomorrow.

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Nice! Good to see all our research in one convenient post. :) I'll keep an eye out for the second part.

I was going to see if I could contribute to this thread any more, forgetting how much we'd already covered! Maybe we need some Americans to come along and tell us the things we missed out.

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One thing I didn't notice in this thread - I might just have missed it - is that after the successful kite experiment, Franklin thanks Hoagie for the help, and promises to name an invention after him someday. A hoagie is a kind of sandwich, and apparently the name Benjamin Franklin is sometimes associated with sandwiches, for some reason I haven't been able to find yet?

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http://www.ben-franklins.com/about.html ? :)

EDIT: Woah, nice find. There's apparently another myth that Franklin invented the hoagie (or Philly Cheesesteak, depending on who you ask). Never heard that one before!

But... there's an inconsistency there. When talking to George Washington (I think) Hoagie introduces himself and Washington says "Like the sandwich? How quaint."

That suggests the hoagie has already been invented and dubbed.

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http://www.ben-franklins.com/about.html ? :)

EDIT: Woah, nice find. There's apparently another myth that Franklin invented the hoagie (or Philly Cheesesteak, depending on who you ask). Never heard that one before!

But... there's an inconsistency there. When talking to George Washington (I think) Hoagie introduces himself and Washington says "Like the sandwich? How quaint."

That suggests the hoagie has already been invented and dubbed.

Yeah, the maid mentions it too when you talk to her ("Imagine being named after a sandwich!"). Although like I mentioned in my post with the timeline, Benjamin Franklin actually died in 1790 so by the events of DOTT (in the past) if there was any truth to him naming the hoagie, that could have already happened by then. (I say "could" because also Franklin's kite experiment happened long before too, but obviously that had to be changed in the game's story due to a certain puzzle.)

Maybe the writers were originally going with the latter scenario as the canon (where the hoagie sandwich already existed) but later decided to throw in the joke about Ben Franklin naming an invention after the character. Guess it was too good an opportunity to miss. :)

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Yep, it's seemingly an odd discrepancy. I wonder if they put lines in about the sandwich for non-US players, only for it to mess with Franklin's statement that he'll invent something named after him.

The myth definitely exists that Franklin invented the cheesesteak sandwich. As one site puts it:

Do you know the origins of Philly’s famed cheesesteak? Back in 1775, Benjamin Franklin invented a sandwich to feed to British troops quartered in American homes. Loaded with sautéed beef and melted cheese, this delicious gut bomb lulled the lethargic British into naps, allowing the revolutionaries to easily defeat them.

It's clearly a myth, but surely it's what they were referencing when they had Franklin say "Nice working with you, Hoagie. I promise to name an invention after you someday."

I guess it was just an oversight by the writers...?

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