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Acheron

From DF Chad -- How Training XP Works

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I PMed programmer extraordinaire Chad Dawson asking about how exactly training works. He gave me permission to share his explanation:

Each trainer increases their child’s xp by their (XP *.3 / 365 * 15) per day.

It doesn’t matter if they are regent or partner or standard. In fact currently if you have a child regent, they will be acting as a trainer for the other trainees.

So if you have 1 parent at level 9, the child would after 15 years be level 3.

If you have 2 parents at level 9, the child would after 15 years be level 6.

2 parents and a standard would get the child to level 9.

Also note that once a child’s xp is >= trainer XP that trainerno longer contributes any xp to training.

so 2 parents + 3 standards at level 9 would still only get the child to level 9 by age 15.

Standards train the children in all keeps, and can even be infertile so I would put my highest level character with the best personality traits in as standard.

Also note that building a standard crucible on a region that gives a bonus and/or a trainee being a fast or slow learner can impact the training rate too.

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Thanks for that explanation.

That children cannot reach a higher XP total than any of their trainers makes complete sense and yet it is not at all obvious in the game.

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This is pretty cools to know and it does make perfect sense, but it would be good to know. Maybe a note on the crucible screen about not being able to train past their level and then a loading screen tip about all parents/trainers having that limit.

I have to say that knowing this makes me completely rethink what possible strategies there are for using Crucibles . . . .

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Yeah, it seems like any more than 1 is questionable, and any more than 2 is worthless.

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I think there must be a mistake in that formula. It must be (XP *.3 / (365 * 15)) per day. That's the only way you gain exactly 30% of a given influencers XP in 15 years. Without the brackets I added in, you'd be getting 225 times as much XP per day!

As to the value of additional crucibles, I think the 2nd crucible is still very clearly valuable. You can't get to 100% of the highest level influences XP with only 3 influences. 3 times 30% is only 90% at absolute best (less if any of the 3 is behind on XP). You'll wind up spending too much XP trying to catch up to the previous generation and fall behind on XP in the end. The only exception is if you get the Crucible XP Boost region ability.

The 3rd crucible might be valuable for XP in a few situations:

1/ You have a slow learner that you need to get up to level anyway.

2/ You have to do without a regent or spouse for a significant period of time leaving you short on XP at one Keep.

3/ One or both of the regent and spouse are low on XP compared to your highest levels. In this case, the regent and spouse are only going to be useful until their children surpass them and then you are going to need 3 crucibles to get them somewhat close to your max experience amongst your crucibles.

Obviously those are all situational reasons. So you won't need a 3rd crucible in every game, but you might need the boost from one in some games.

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Okay, how does a < 15 year old regent work?

Do they train at all? Or merely help to train other trainees?

The trainer does not count if their XP >= trainee obviously prevents them from training themselves.

Other question is is the final XP packet from a trainer reduced if it would otherwise pop the trainee over the trainer's XP.

As in trainer with 9000 xp, trainee with 8999 provides what about 7xp day, would they push the trainee to 9006 or 9000 on the final day?

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I think there must be a mistake in that formula. It must be (XP *.3 / (365 * 15)) per day. That's the only way you gain exactly 30% of a given influencers XP in 15 years. Without the brackets I added in, you'd be getting 225 times as much XP per day!

As to the value of additional crucibles, I think the 2nd crucible is still very clearly valuable. You can't get to 100% of the highest level influences XP with only 3 influences. 3 times 30% is only 90% at absolute best (less if any of the 3 is behind on XP). You'll wind up spending too much XP trying to catch up to the previous generation and fall behind on XP in the end. The only exception is if you get the Crucible XP Boost region ability.

The 3rd crucible might be valuable for XP in a few situations:

1/ You have a slow learner that you need to get up to level anyway.

2/ You have to do without a regent or spouse for a significant period of time leaving you short on XP at one Keep.

3/ One or both of the regent and spouse are low on XP compared to your highest levels. In this case, the regent and spouse are only going to be useful until their children surpass them and then you are going to need 3 crucibles to get them somewhat close to your max experience amongst your crucibles.

Obviously those are all situational reasons. So you won't need a 3rd crucible in every game, but you might need the boost from one in some games.

Yea, I agree. I never leave home without at least two crucibles. Even with four trainers, it's difficult to get trainees to match the highest-level hero unless all trainers are fairly similar in their XP, because otherwise the fourth stop training to early.

I agree with your point about the third crucibles, but in the current patch I don't think it's really a feasible option unless your strategy specifically depends on it since it takes 60+ years to build. I do think a viable strategy is to build 1 keep, get to level 10 heroes during the midgame with 3 crucibles, then build lots of other keeps, retire 3 level-10 trainers, and create several new bloodlines from scratch through recruits. Boom, all the sudden you have a bunch of high-level keeps without any work of developing all the bloodlines.

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Okay, how does a < 15 year old regent work?

Do they train at all? Or merely help to train other trainees?

The trainer does not count if their XP >= trainee obviously prevents them from training themselves.

Other question is is the final XP packet from a trainer reduced if it would otherwise pop the trainee over the trainer’s XP.

As in trainer with 9000 xp, trainee with 8999 provides what about 7xp day, would they push the trainee to 9006 or 9000 on the final day?

Programatically, you'd expect a <15 yr old regent to train any other trainees at the Keep, but be incapable of training himself due to the XP limitation. He's still a regent. You'd have to put in extra code to prevent an underage regent from counting as a trainer for anyone else.

As far as the training goes for pushing past their limit, it's not likely a big problem. At 9000 xp, you only get 0.493 XP per day per trainer. Obviously the game tracks fractional XP internally or that daily tick of XP wouldn't work. So you'd need at least 4 trainers with say 10,000 xp each to get a trainee 2xp in one day.

Assuming the program checks each trainer before it adds XP from them, you'd need a single trainer with at least 21,000 xp to push a trainee up 2xp in one go and even only if they are already super close to having the last point of XP already. Haven't played in a while, what's the max XP at level 10 in the latest patch?

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Okay, how does a < 15 year old regent work?

Do they train at all? Or merely help to train other trainees?

The trainer does not count if their XP >= trainee obviously prevents them from training themselves.

Other question is is the final XP packet from a trainer reduced if it would otherwise pop the trainee over the trainer's XP.

As in trainer with 9000 xp, trainee with 8999 provides what about 7xp day, would they push the trainee to 9006 or 9000 on the final day?

Yes they train the lower-level trainees according to Chad. It works out kind of weird because they don't train themselves, so eventually you get all trainees essentially matching the XP of the highest-level trainee, unless they were way apart to begin with (the lower-level trainees get 3 trainers, the highest-level gets only 2, so they quickly converge).

a trainer with 9000 xp would give approximately .5 XP per day, so this wouldn't be a problem. I don't remember how much XP is required for Level 10 on hard, but this would only really be a problem for a hero with 36,000 XP (or slightly less with the crucible bonus), so it isn't really a problem.

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