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tragichero83

Thoughts on attacks on Sagewright guilds.

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Hello. Some might remember me a while ago complaining about the enemy layout the last time I had to defend my Sagewright Guild.

I've come to terms that there are many a hard enemy roaming your guild hall but I have a problem with the Sagewrights in general. I understand that being Sagewrights that they aren't supposed to be heavy hitters but all and all they seem pretty useless. Which I could live with if it wasn't for how easy it is to run them into trouble.

For instance, I've been playing Ironman mode to prevent me from cheating and eventually my guild was attacked. Starting off I had to move my sages. So I moved them to the left only to encounter a twitch, a lapse, and 2 ruptures. And because the enemies share vision it only took one turn before the enemies to the right were upon them. It wasn't long until they were annihilated.

Is it fair? I'm not sure. Once again maybe I am a novice among experts but I feel the game punishes you pretty harshly for taking a wrong turn with your sages. I don't want them to be able to stun hit, or go stealth or anything to make them overpowered but maybe make a change to give maybe one extra turn of time? Maybe start the sages in a deep hallway or give them a room to sit behind that enemies have to break a door down.

I might be the only one on this but I just think that unless you get lucky and manage to find a corner for your sages to hide in that they are set up to die.

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If there were still time to develop this, I think a fun thing is if Sagewrights were still very weak but they all enter the fight with an Incredibly Useful Gadget, which is just a special research item a sagewright happens to have on them which does something quite powerful, but it's randomised so that each sagewright gets something different. So one might get something that teleports them out of range of enemies, while another might get something which creates a powerful explosion around them, and another might get some sort of shielding device.

Not really a practical suggestion for now, but I think it could be a fun way of adding some spice to those battles and giving them a fighting chance.

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That would be a cool addition. Hopefully they can do some free dlc down the line.

Aesthetically the hammers are cool but with the damage and the accuracy of the sages they might as well fight with their tomes.

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They could potentially buff the run-range of Sagewrights -- think of it as they are not bogged down with armor so they can run slightly farther and get further out of enemy sight.

In any case, I look forward to playing more heavily with the release and the post-release patches.

Smiles

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Yeah, when a Sagewrights' Guild gets attacked, I figure my Sagewrights are pretty much goners. A few thoughts:

- Ensure the heroes and Sagewrights start on the same side. That gives them at least a chance at survival.

- Even if they don't have the ability KestrelPi mentioned, give them something. Like a health flask, if they've been researched. I like Smiles's idea of increased movement range. Even if they can't fight or defend, they can at least run away.

For Science.

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Giving a health flask might not be a bad idea, if it is doable. Improving movement range seems like it could be an easy solution behind the scenes. Though, I am not sure I'm entirely sold on there being a real problem the needs addressing my own experiences and reading others, but I'd be interested in more feedback.

Smiles

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Giving a health flask might not be a bad idea, if it is doable. Improving movement range seems like it could be an easy solution behind the scenes. Though, I am not sure I'm entirely sold on there being a real problem the needs addressing my own experiences and reading others, but I'd be interested in more feedback.

Smiles

Another idea would be to arm them based on the current research. Researching an item they all have it equipped, I would also suggest it for armour/weapons but suspect that would be more work animation/art wise. So I guess mostly just consider giving them an item from the item pool, and possibly one of the ones they are working on at the time.

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Honestly, they (sagewrights) could also just straight up be made less terrible. I think that their relative uselessness is supposed to be justified by the Chalice VO's lines about only members of heroic bloodlines being able to engage the Cadence... but these are still ultimately people who were born to said bloodlines. Yes, they've renounced their right to rule/marry/whatever, but blood's blood. Joining the Night's Watch means you can't inherit land, but it doesn't mean you can't exercise.

Should they be heroes? No. But they could be more like... 60% of a hero, rather than 5% of one.

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Give them unlimited item slots, one copy of each unique item slotted.

It fits in with the antics they are always described as getting up to.

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Honestly, they (sagewrights) could also just straight up be made less terrible. I think that their relative uselessness is supposed to be justified by the Chalice VO's lines about only members of heroic bloodlines being able to engage the Cadence... but these are still ultimately people who were born to said bloodlines. Yes, they've renounced their right to rule/marry/whatever, but blood's blood. Joining the Night's Watch means you can't inherit land, but it doesn't mean you can't exercise.

Should they be heroes? No. But they could be more like... 60% of a hero, rather than 5% of one.

It does seem strange that that level 9 combat veteran I retired to the Sagewrights Guild suddenly can't take a hit or do any worthwhile damage . . . .

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It does seem strange that that level 9 combat veteran I retired to the Sagewrights Guild suddenly can't take a hit or do any worthwhile damage . . . .

Right. The rub is that Sagewrights are a bit like civilians and new recruits in XCOM, a bit squishy. However, in the game's lore and in the story, you can get things like you describe -- a high level combat veteran who is "weaker" now. You could chalk it up to mostly renouncing violence, etc, but this is where the gameplay and story we are building emergently don't always mesh I think.

On the flipside, keep assaults, especially if there is an older retired battle hardened person it, pretty accurately reflect a harmonious mesh of gameplay and story.

Smiles

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This is sounding a lot like our fourth main class:

The Pack Mule

Focus: Use items.

Armor: Cloth

Weapon: None

Skill Tree:

Tier 0: Extra Item Slot

Tier 1: Extra Item Slot/Throw Item

Tier 2: Extra Item Slot/Piggyback

Tier 3: Extra Item Slot/Hide

Tier 4: Dance

In the meantime, we have found a couple of bugs related with how buffs were getting assigned to the Cadence and to Sagewrights which would have affected battle difficulty in later years in particular (or earlier depending on what you built, and where). Brad also went through and tuned some numbers that changes things a bit for our wise (and wizened?) researcher-builders. There were also a couple of other things that Sagewrights were missing out on, which have been fixed as well. Don't want to get too specific in case things change around on us again.

They will hopefully not be quite so helpless in battle but they are still mainly non-combatants. Vow of ... I don't know, peace or something.

This is a joke. We're not adding a Pack Mule class. The rest of the post is real.

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In the future I'd like a pack mule class. They could have a giant santa bag of holding, running around the map. :D In reality, I look forward to the next patch(es).

Smiles

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This is sounding a lot like our fourth main class:

The Pack Mule

Focus: Use items.

Armor: Cloth

Weapon: None

Skill Tree:

Tier 0: Extra Item Slot

Tier 1: Extra Item Slot/Throw Item

Tier 2: Extra Item Slot/Piggyback

Tier 3: Extra Item Slot/Hide

Tier 4: Dance

This is a joke. We're not adding a Pack Mule class. The rest of the post is real.

So what are the hybrids?

The Pack Mule / Hunter:

Quiver

Focus: Carry lots of arrows.

Skill Tree:

Tier 0: Extra Item Slot

Tier 1: Extra Item Slot/Throw Arrow

Tier 2: Extra Item Slot/Juggle

Tier 3: Extra Item Slot/Equip two crossbows

Tier 4: Hunter Shuffle

The Pack Mule / Caberjack:

Cabermancer

Focus: Carry lots of cabers.

Skill Tree:

Tier 0: Extra Item Slot

Tier 1: Extra Item Slot/Throw Caber

Tier 2: Extra Item Slot/Juggle Cabers

Tier 3: Extra Item Slot/Equip two cabers

Tier 4: Caberdance

The Pack Mule / Alchemist:

Flask Jockey

Focus: Carry lots of flasks.

Skill Tree:

Tier 0: Extra Item Slot

Tier 1: Extra Item Slot/Throw Ally

Tier 2: Extra Item Slot/Unbreakable flask

Tier 3: Extra Item Slot/Equip two Slingers

Tier 4: FlaskDance

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They will hopefully not be quite so helpless in battle but they are still mainly non-combatants. Vow of ... I don't know, peace or something.

Maybe the years of researching, building and not training have left a toll on their combat readiness.

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I recently completed a guild, filled it, and had it attacked shortly after. The sagewrights were squished pretty quickly, and I don't think there was anything I could do to change this...

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It sounds like they've already addressed the issue, but I'm on the side of just making the sagewrights kick a little more ass. I mean, why not? Is it more fun if they're weak? Not really. It kind of changes it to a rescue mission, but I think it would be more fun if they could do some damage of their own. It's not like guild attacks are a super common thing, so it shouldn't change the balance any way. I'd love to see them smash some Cadence scum with those Sage Hammers of theirs.

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You know what would help? Give all Sagewrights a special "Alertness" personality trait. It gives them something akin to Honed Hearing and Hawkeye. Letting them see more of the field as they move would at least give them a better chance of escaping. And it should be easy enough to do.

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