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mudd1

Is that knot puzzle driving anyone else crazy?

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So you have a huge number of knots, four descriptions for knots that don't really match any of the actual knots, some hidden mechanism that determines whether or not you can tell F'ther generic instructions or specific ones which again don't really match any of the steps shown on the diagram and a really long way to backtrack before you can get a new diagram. Am I just missing something obvious here or is this a puzzle-like gameplay entity designed for the sole purpose of driving people mad?

The thing that frustrates me the most about this is that there are some knots that would actually be really simple to describe (like the one that looks like a bundle of straw) but those descriptions are not offered. Instead I am supposed to recognize string in the form of an elephant chasing its trunk or a bucket full of fingers or whatever.

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I'm also being driven mad by this, it doesn't make any sense and the choices are randomized each time even if you exit and try to load a save to solve it via process of elimination.

Are we missing something ?

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So you have a huge number of knots, four descriptions for knots that don't really match any of the actual knots, some hidden mechanism that determines whether or not you can tell F'ther generic instructions or specific ones which again don't really match any of the steps shown on the diagram and a really long way to backtrack before you can get a new diagram. Am I just missing something obvious here or is this a puzzle-like gameplay entity designed for the sole purpose of driving people mad?

The thing that frustrates me the most about this is that there are some knots that would actually be really simple to describe (like the one that looks like a bundle of straw) but those descriptions are not offered. Instead I am supposed to recognize string in the form of an elephant chasing its trunk or a bucket full of fingers or whatever.

Generic instructions = you don't have instructions from Carol in your inventory

Specific instructions = you do have instructions from Carol in your inventory

Note that if you used the specific instructions granted by Carol's written instructions, and then F'ther messes up the knot more instead of making it better, it removes Carol's instructions and sends you back to generic instructions. So you have to go get new instructions.

Don't want to backtrack? When F'ther screws up whatever knot you're working on, DON'T SKIP OUT OF THE DIALOGUE. Wait for him to show you the new knot and then select the dialogue option all the way at the bottom. It's something like "Hold on, let me go get more help" or something to that effect. That will instantly warp Shay to Carol to get more instructions and then instantly warp him back after he receives them.

As for pairing names with shapes, that's just the puzzle I'm afraid. I personally love that sort of thing, as it throws some creative/intuitive/right-brained thinking into the mix as opposed to relying on pure logic problems, but if you didn't care for it then in the words of The Dude, "Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man." And you're welcome to it.

Cheers!

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Well, at least I found out that there is a dialog option that will teleport you so you don't have to backtrack ... unless you happen to choose the wrong one by accident. Also, the diagrams are written on MI6 paper that destroys itself after reading. Makes complete sense of course.

On the downside, the solutions are utterly randomized so even if you get the same knot twice, you still only have a 25% chance for each step. Unless you get a step where the description actually somewhat resembles the diagram. This also explains why Step 1 never looks like the actual knot at hand, even if you have the correct diagram for your knot. These diagrams are what Ikea assembly instructions would look like if Ikea was founded by Satan.

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Generic instructions = you don't have instructions from Carol in your inventory

Specific instructions = you do have instructions from Carol in your inventory

Note that if you used the specific instructions granted by Carol's written instructions, and then F'ther messes up the knot more instead of making it better, it removes Carol's instructions and sends you back to generic instructions. So you have to go get new instructions.

Don't want to backtrack? When F'ther screws up whatever knot you're working on, DON'T SKIP OUT OF THE DIALOGUE. Wait for him to show you the new knot and then select the dialogue option all the way at the bottom. It's something like "Hold on, let me go get more help" or something to that effect. That will instantly warp Shay to Carol to get more instructions and then instantly warp him back after he receives them.

Thanks! Figured those things out myself now but I'm a little frustrated that there's really nothing that would lead to to assume them in the first place.

As for pairing names with shapes, that's just the puzzle I'm afraid. I personally love that sort of thing, as it throws some creative/intuitive/right-brained thinking into the mix as opposed to relying on pure logic problems, but if you didn't care for it then in the words of The Dude, "Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man." And you're welcome to it.

I don't know. As I said, some of the descriptions make sense. Others are like "Ok, does this look even remotely like option 1? Nope. 2? Nope. 3? Nope. 4? Nope. .... Great." That's not right-brain thinking, that's guessing. And if then the game changes it's own frickin' rules by changing the way one and the same knot is solved, I feel a bit cheated. No, scratch that. I feel cheated a lot.

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I don't know. As I said, some of the descriptions make sense. Others are like "Ok, does this look even remotely like option 1? Nope. 2? Nope. 3? Nope. 4? Nope. .... Great." That's not right-brain thinking, that's guessing. And if then the game changes it's own frickin' rules by changing the way one and the same knot is solved, I feel a bit cheated. No, scratch that. I feel cheated a lot.

Well, I don't know what to say, man. I didn't experience that problem or frustration, so I can't agree. I'm sorry you didn't like that part!

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When I finally got it I felt like it was dumb luck that those patterns were one of the easy ones and I had picked the right assembly instruction because I was lucky and there was zero sense of achievement :/

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When I finally got it I felt like it was dumb luck that those patterns were one of the easy ones and I had picked the right assembly instruction because I was lucky and there was zero sense of achievement :/

Again, it was not that way at all for me, and I was able to choose the correct instructions based on what the knot looked like and then give F'ther the right instructions based on the drawings. Some of them were easier than others, so it took me 2 or 3 tries, but I ultimately got it based on thinking and not on luck, so again I am sorry you feel that way but still do not agree. Cheers.

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Again, it was not that way at all for me, and I was able to choose the correct instructions based on what the knot looked like and then give F'ther the right instructions based on the drawings. Some of them were easier than others, so it took me 2 or 3 tries, but I ultimately got it based on thinking and not on luck, so again I am sorry you feel that way but still do not agree. Cheers.

This is the same case as what I experienced with it. While it took me 3 goes it wasn't due to confusion, I felt like i knew exactly what each of the knots were and could give the correct instructions again and again if needed.

I think I might actually go draw up a chart to this puzzle so that people can appreciate how clever it is because I feel the developer's are missing out on a lot of credit they're due.

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Again, it was not that way at all for me, and I was able to choose the correct instructions based on what the knot looked like and then give F'ther the right instructions based on the drawings. Some of them were easier than others, so it took me 2 or 3 tries, but I ultimately got it based on thinking and not on luck, so again I am sorry you feel that way but still do not agree. Cheers.

This is the same case as what I experienced with it. While it took me 3 goes it wasn't due to confusion, I felt like i knew exactly what each of the knots were and could give the correct instructions again and again if needed.

I think I might actually go draw up a chart to this puzzle so that people can appreciate how clever it is because I feel the developer's are missing out on a lot of credit they're due.

Right? The hardest part about it was that I didn't remember what all of the knots looked like (or hadn't seen them all yet), and coming up with the right name for Carol's drawings was sometimes tough because a few of them seemed like they could go one way or the other. But I mean, when one of the knot descriptions was "an elephant eating its trunk" and "a bucket of fingers", I knew EXACTLY which knots they were talking about.

Earlier tonight I was playing some of the old episodic Sam & Max games, and while I don't mean to hate on Sam & Max at all, the puzzle solutions in those games really made me appreciate how BA2 managed to be challenging but always follow some kind of chain of reasoning that you could actually discern, and you always knew what you were trying to accomplish by doing it. The Sam & Max solutions can sometimes be a little... well... the ugly side of adventure games... fake mustaches made of cat hair taped to a fence, if you know what I mean. I'm glad BA isn't really like that.

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Huh. So I've been exploring this knot puzzle for the last hour or so and I cannot for the life of me make it produce the knots that would be associated with "two snakes fighting over a ball of yarn" and "nine ladybugs flying in formation". I've already matched up all the knots with their correct descriptions (including testing they're correct) as well as all the directives with their corresponding images. It appears as if maybe there is just two more things you can say to Carol that don't actually correspond to knots?

Has anyone else come across the knots associated with two snakes fighting over a ball of yarn or nine ladybugs in formation? Have I just been incredibly unlucky?

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Huh. So I've been exploring this knot puzzle for the last hour or so and I cannot for the life of me make it produce the knots that would be associated with "two snakes fighting over a ball of yarn" and "nine ladybugs flying in formation". I've already matched up all the knots with their correct descriptions (including testing they're correct) as well as all the directives with their corresponding images. It appears as if maybe there is just two more things you can say to Carol that don't actually correspond to knots?

Has anyone else come across the knots associated with two snakes fighting over a ball of yarn or nine ladybugs in formation? Have I just been incredibly unlucky?

The two snakes fighting is a description of one of the deknotting instruction images, and yeah, I got it when I played.

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Huh. So I've been exploring this knot puzzle for the last hour or so and I cannot for the life of me make it produce the knots that would be associated with "two snakes fighting over a ball of yarn" and "nine ladybugs flying in formation". I've already matched up all the knots with their correct descriptions (including testing they're correct) as well as all the directives with their corresponding images. It appears as if maybe there is just two more things you can say to Carol that don't actually correspond to knots?

1. You have to describe knot correctly when speaking with Carol. Otherwise you'll get instructions for a different knot.

2. You have to describe instructions correctly to F'ther. Sometimes you can describe them correctly even if you have instructions for a different knot (but F'ther won't be able to untie it in that case).

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By the way, a bug where the correct dialog option didn't appear was recently discovered and fixed. That could have been the cause for some of the frustration.

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Hi guys, it turns out there is a bug in the puzzle if you failed it once and walked around, instead of using the teleport option. We have a fix for it coming next week, but in the meantime, to fix up your game, pick the dialog option "You stay here.." in F'ther's dialog tree (teleport option).

UPDATE: the dialog option I posted was wrong. Should be "Hang on. I'm going to get a new diagram and be right back!"

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Hi guys, it turns out there is a bug in the puzzle if you failed it once. We have a fix for it coming next week, but in the meantime, to fix up your game, pick the dialog option "You stay here..." in F'ther's dialog tree.

Aaah! I was going to answer to the topic with "nope, did it smoothly on the first try". Looks like "the first try" was the key here :)

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Hi guys, it turns out there is a bug in the puzzle if you failed it once. We have a fix for it coming next week, but in the meantime, to fix up your game, pick the dialog option "You stay here..." in F'ther's dialog tree.

Aaah! I was going to answer to the topic with "nope, did it smoothly on the first try". Looks like "the first try" was the key here :)

Bragger! I sentence you to bragger's prison!

(But also good job.)

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I think the bug only happens if you choose to manually walk back to Carol instead of the teleporting option. I had to try quite a few times myself.

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Oh, so not realizing there was a teleport option did more for my frustration than just having to walk through the landscape for five minutes for every wrong guess.

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Yeah, that explains why I couldn't figure out a correct choice on my second try, for which I didn't choose to automatically teleport either (because I didn't realize that a certain dialogue option would do that).

Still, apart from the annoying backtracking this was a fun puzzle, especially to solve with a friend together.

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Huh. So I've been exploring this knot puzzle for the last hour or so and I cannot for the life of me make it produce the knots that would be associated with "two snakes fighting over a ball of yarn" and "nine ladybugs flying in formation". I've already matched up all the knots with their correct descriptions (including testing they're correct) as well as all the directives with their corresponding images. It appears as if maybe there is just two more things you can say to Carol that don't actually correspond to knots?

1. You have to describe knot correctly when speaking with Carol. Otherwise you'll get instructions for a different knot.

2. You have to describe instructions correctly to F'ther. Sometimes you can describe them correctly even if you have instructions for a different knot (but F'ther won't be able to untie it in that case).

Well aware as to how it works, ive done it correctly for almost every knot possible. The problem I've encountered is that theres two dialogue options you can say to Carol (it looks like two snakes fighting over a ball of yarn, and it looks like nine ladybugs flying in formation) that don't appear to match any knots. By that I mean that theres 8 knots ive been able to see but 10 dialogue options with carol.

And yes I'm aware theres also a directive called pull apart the fighting snakes. This is NOT the same as the dialogue option with carol that says two snakes fighting over a ball of yarn.

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Huh. So I've been exploring this knot puzzle for the last hour or so and I cannot for the life of me make it produce the knots that would be associated with "two snakes fighting over a ball of yarn" and "nine ladybugs flying in formation". I've already matched up all the knots with their correct descriptions (including testing they're correct) as well as all the directives with their corresponding images. It appears as if maybe there is just two more things you can say to Carol that don't actually correspond to knots?

1. You have to describe knot correctly when speaking with Carol. Otherwise you'll get instructions for a different knot.

2. You have to describe instructions correctly to F'ther. Sometimes you can describe them correctly even if you have instructions for a different knot (but F'ther won't be able to untie it in that case).

Well aware as to how it works, ive done it correctly for almost every knot possible. The problem I've encountered is that theres two dialogue options you can say to Carol (it looks like two snakes fighting over a ball of yarn, and it looks like nine ladybugs flying in formation) that don't appear to match any knots. By that I mean that theres 8 knots ive been able to see but 10 dialogue options with carol.

And yes I'm aware theres also a directive called pull apart the fighting snakes. This is NOT the same as the dialogue option with carol that says two snakes fighting over a ball of yarn.

Maybe some of the descriptions intentionally don't describe any knots but are just in there as intentionally false answers?

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I don't mean to brag but I walked through this puzzle and was disappointed that it was over so quickly. It reminded me of the insult sword fighting mechanic and it could have been used more, maybe for the sequel!

But I had hair pulling tension from the wire puzzles! AAAAArrrrgggghhhh!!!!

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This puzzle wasn't too bad for me, but I wish when you asked to see the knot you'd get more than a couple seconds to have a look at it. Or better yet, to have it remain shown to you until you decide you're done, like with the pictures in the trophy room

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I too walked all the way back to Carol several times. Is the teleport option the first or second one? I think I kept choosing the last option because that's usually the one that makes you exit a conversation so it was just natural to.

Maybe they should add some text to indicate one option teleports you back to Carol.

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I don't mean to brag but I walked through this puzzle and was disappointed that it was over so quickly. It reminded me of the insult sword fighting mechanic and it could have been used more, maybe for the sequel!

The joke telling reminded me of the sword fighting puzzle. The knot puzzle bears little resemblance IMHO.

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Finally got it, there is to me at least one broken symbol in the puzzle, the one that looks like a cylindrical cage with two squiggly lines through it, no matter what I picked it was the wrong the choice and nothing described it well in the choices, eventually I managed to get the instructions free from this one and was able to complete it.

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Guys, if you are frustrated by the puzzle and stuck, there is a way to cheat and get around it. I spent three hours trying to solve it before I finally gave up and did this. I look forward to solving it for real once the bug is removed of course, but for now, there's just no logical solution to it and it is, frankly, a frustrating waste of time that requires dumb luck.

In the end, here's what I did - I got the diagram from Carol, returned to F'ther, then saved the game just before I climbed the ladder. Each time I got the wrong answer, I would simply re-load the save file by returning to the main menu, and the game would boot me right back to the moment before I climbed the ladder. That meant I could easily find out which answers were wrong and then return to my save-file right away to try another answer for the same knot. I got by it in three minutes this way.

Not the most honorable way to solve a puzzle, yes, but I don't think this puzzle is anywhere close to fair as it is... like I said... three freaking hours of guesswork, no thanks...

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What can I say? I solved the puzzle as (probably) intended. I guess another set of eyes helped. For example I didn't recognize for one diagram that "pull the finger" was its right description, but when my friend pointed this out to me, it became obvious.

Anyway, since you managed to save scum you didn't run into the bug.

Finally got it, there is to me at least one broken symbol in the puzzle, the one that looks like a cylindrical cage with two squiggly lines through it, no matter what I picked it was the wrong the choice and nothing described it well in the choices, eventually I managed to get the instructions free from this one and was able to complete it.

That one is described as a cup. I don't remember the exact description.

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