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ApexHawk

The Post-Launch Expansion Pile Round-up

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So, back when I was more active on this forum, I coined the term "expansion pile", to describe ideas that definately weren't going to be making it to 1.0. Mostly just to be clever, but also to deflate any unfounded hype.

But later I figured that just mentioning "the pile" on a post would be a neat-o way to tag all new ideas for the game, in case anyone would ever be interested.

With the game finally out, and the possible continuation seeming not-so-likely, I figured I'd nevertheless look up some of the greatest hits of the pile, to introduce some ideas people have been throwing around.

Let's face it, we're going to see a lot of people throwing around their ideas in the next few weeks, so it's good to at least categorize the points already made.

(I'll be doing some editing, cherry picking the ideas I deem "the Best" just search up "Expansion pile" if you want a more complete list.)

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[suggestion] Family Tree / Timeline view and story generation

geoffpaulsen writes:

"1) a family tree type view that easily shows who is related to who, and how they’re related. It would also be good to show deaths on this screen possibly with links to the battles where characters died. One other possibility here would be to have an icon for each of the genetic traits.

The current screen that shows all of the characters is good for looking at characters, etc, but not so good for showing their relationships.

2) I think one thing that would make this game really cool, would be a giant tome that generates a story for each of the tactical battles. This should be pretty doable given all of the information available during the turn based tactical battle. This would allow players to read the story of a battle after they’ve come back against difficult odds, or perhaps after the loss of a beloved blood line. I wouldn’t want the story to just be a log of the battle though, it would need some AI to determine when a dramatic event happens, and focus on that, and the elements of the battle leading up to that. No problem right? ;) "

A family tree view is the single small thing that I would most like to see added to the game. The current system of cycling through generations is nice, but it's very limited, very confusing, and doesn't really do the scope of the story you're putting together justice.

I don’t care about my characters, maybe these will help change that?

A lot of people have commented on this subject. I'm going to cherrypick some things froma post by Ofidian:

When adding the same bloodline to a different keep change them slightly. In ancient times families that deviated like that would alter the name .Think KarStarks in GOT who were originally part of the Starks or McDonalds from the Donald family.

The timeline goes a bit fast. People are dying so fast that an entire generation can go by and I didn’t even realize it. This makes it seem like any other game instead of an epic timeline. Slow down the timeline, make combat and quests more common. When a generation dies I want to feel it. Not just a bunch of minions fell to the wayside.

When you are rewarded with a new character give them a back story as to how they came upon you. “Fredrick the Lvl 4 Caber never realized his connection to the great bloodlines of the chalice. He survived with his family in the cave beside his farmhouse when teh cadence came and spent many years down their surviving off the marsh fungus that grew on the moist walls. One day the cadence wandered in how ever and killed his family, he managed to kill the cadence as revenge. The last dying words from his father was that Fredrick was adopted and his bloodline is what saved him. Wandering outside for what seemed like years he finally stumbled upon the keeps”

Detailed history of your characters. Every quest, battle, and event they are part of is recorded for you to view at any time. This will allow you to deepen you connection with the character. If you forget who someone is you can look at their history, see all they have been a part of and thus strengthen your bond with them.

Some of the ideas here are a bit on the "could be a game of it's own" side, but more flavourtext would definately go a long way.

On a different thread, Carbus writes:

Titles to Mighty Heroes

Along with the nicknames it would be nice to also give titles to Mighty Heroes that achieved some goals. Some cool titles: ” the Bulwark Slayer” (killed 20 bulwarks) ; “The Bastion” (sustained 200 damage in his life) ; ” The Wise ” (Intelligent stat of 30); ” The Ghost ” (stayed hidden for 30 turns). This achievements would add some personality to the game, where you could care more about your heroes, or at least create more stories inside the game.

Hall of Heroes

Just like X-COM did where your fallen heroes are displayed in a hall, I can see many possibilities here, along with the titles I just mentioned.

Visually I can imagine, a hall inside the capital, where your mightiest heroes are displayed as Statues, with the feat of his life, and the bloodline he represents.

The Chalice Tournament

tragichero83 writes:

So I had a thought on this: why not make an event every 20 or so years in the game where the chalice hosts a grand tournament amongst the current houses. Maybe the player would pick one member from each house and have them battle it out in a computer controlled event based on the stats and other random variables. And the winner gets to become the grand house of land, getting bonus stats for the bloodline and extra bonus for the champion. And maybe some other bonus points for second place. And of course there could be certain events where someone might die, get a negative or positive stat bonus or maybe a catastrophe happens and the tourney gets cancelled.

NEW CADENCE

Skathe0656 writes:

I for one think that some sort of invisible unit is needed. Artwork be damned I think it should be some sort of invisible blob/wind creature that just strikes your teammates when you lease expect it using practical hit-and-run tactics. Maybe this too could work with the suggested seed upgrades allowing your players to research something to smell these invisible creatures out.

The lack of any winged cretins is disturbing as well. If we could have some sort of winged centipede, or other such nightmare creature I think the scare factor of the game might just double. Imagine if you will, your team is taking cover behind some rocks after a run in with several bulwarks and out of no where, flying over the rocks comes this 100 legged winged nightmare to ensnare your Hunter and carry him away from safety. When you finally scout out the area on the other side of the rock, oh crap it’s 3 wrinklers and this centipede thing. Time to load a save state. This could also work with the Hunter’s ability to hear distant creatures. Maybe add in some unique sounds that players can learn to recognize

The last suggestion for a new Cadence I have is some sort of singing monster. They are called the Cadence (rhythmic singing) aren’t they? Why not create some sort of queen-bee type monster that shoots leadership auras and perhaps extra action points to her allied cadence. If she somehow had a self healing ability, that could even be more fun.

I was really sad with the lack of a Boss-type Cadence all throughout the game. I get that they are basically worldly corruption formed into a body, but why not show that they have some form of change (i.e. developing hierarchies) as they progress through the years? Maybe you could make the quest to eliminate the chalice an overarching part of the story, somewhat similar to what Stephen King is doing with the The Dark Tower series. Perhaps every time the heroes reassemble the chalice, similar events happen, but only because of a hidden evil in the background that has yet to be touched by your efforts. Something like this could add fathoms to the depth of this game and give it even more replayability for those players hunting for Easter eggs and such. If that is too much to ask, shoot for the status quo, but these are just my fanboy wet dreams. Original content, PLEASE STEAL!

KestrelPi writes:

Anyway, as to your suggestions: I agree that if they somehow have time for it it would be super great for them to have some new, super threatening ‘boss’ type cadence in the final battle, and I like the idea of it being an amalgam of all 3 cadence families. It would really make the final battle feel special. However, enemies take a lot of resources to design, animate and implement, so the ship might have sailed on this one.

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A rather handsome gentleman writes: The Expansion Pile: Boss Monsters

Need I say more? New enemy types are, to me, the most important Big thing to improve the game.

Visual customation:

Adam K writes:

In MC, your heroes end up all looking the same, with very little differences in their faces. More than that, they die before you have a chance to get attached, either from old age or the odd Cadence-related injury. I think adding some level of customization would help the game in leaps and bounds.

In X-COM, you can customize the armor style as well as the items equipped. Obviously the colors in MC come from houses, but imagine being able to try three or four different styles per armor class? Or have hats and hoods for Hunters, and full face covers for Caberjacks.

How about Keeps? I honestly can’t remember who lives where because everything looks the same. What if each house had a different style Keep? And a different style throne? I get tired of seeing the same four-pronged chair in each castle. Differences there would add a huge layer of detail to the game.

Relics could get a much needed boost as well. Imagine if, as they leveled up, they grew more intricate and special. Think about the weapons in Fable. As you used them, they took on an appearance that reflected your choices as a hero. Isn’t that what’s happening here as well? Throw on some gilding and gems and let’s get fancy.

Lastly, let’s pretend for a minute that razors existed in whatever time period MC is set. Can we choose our own hair styles? Maybe even had a family-preferred haircut. Perhaps the Drakkens can’t grow beards, and the Eolsa’s go bald at a young age.

This is one of the things that people are going to have differing opinions about. Some people care about customization, some people don't, it isn't really integral to the experience.

Scenarios:

yonder writes:

Rather than adding a completely new game mode (like pvp, multiplayer) you could add scenarios.

The base world does not have to look the exact way it does. Meaning you could start in custom made layouts with certain qualities, paired with a certain difficulty and set of events/rules. So on top of a leveled difficulty system, you could have custom made scenarios and challenges. For example: All caberjacks, low fertility region, three cadence attacks at a time.

I think different map types and game types could be an interesting addition if the game were to be considered for an expansion. Kind of "civ" style, with new events and new, well, scenarios to deal with.

Different Combat Objectives and Conditions?

http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/15929/#368548

Nuff said. Everything there is good. currently, all mission types boil down to "defeat all enemies".

Ways to deepen investment in and out of combat

Kestrel Pi writes:

At first I thought that what would be needed is a pretty involved relationship system which would be very resource heavy, but lately I’ve been thinking that even with a really rudimentary system you could add a lot of interest at a low cost.

...

Regardless of how it works, heroes who are bonded either interpersonally or by being in the same ‘unit’ give more XP to their children when retired together. This makes it potentially advantageous to retire heroes who have fought together, who have a history

...

My idea for multi-hero bonds, expanded upon a little is that when more like once 2 (or more) heroes complete their 2nd battle together, they become members of ‘The 52nd Legion of Randomly Generated Name’ or whatever, and it’s a visible thing near their character name.

So you might have 5 heroes, 3 of which are on their 2nd battle together, and at the end of that battle they’d get a named ‘band of heroes’ automatically.

Then if another person fights with them 2 more times (if they’re lucky enough to see 4 battles), they also become a member of that same band.

and being part of a band confers various bonuses/penalties

...

That idea is to do with conferring a status of ‘battle hardened’ or veteran to a hero who has been in 3 or more battles, for example. What it means is that as regents/partners (and I guess standards) they’d get a bonus to the XP they pass on. Conversely, regents/partners who have never seen a fight would be ‘Green’ and get an XP penalty when passing on to children.

Some heavy editing there. go to http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/15846/ to get a more complete picture of the ideas thrown around.

House Prestige

I apologize if this is a duplicate of a previous suggestion but I think having houses and heroes have prestige values based on their performance in the cadence battles would add an interesting dynamic to the game. For example a hero from a house with high prestige might not be thrilled to be forced to marry into a house with low prestige and so perhaps the marriage would be an unhappy one with negatives to reproduction. Also there could be a random event where a hero from a bloodline without a keep earns enough prestige on the battle field that an established family (with a keep) offers to adopt him/her into their bloodline. This value would be based strictly on kills in the battlefield NOT character level. Another option could be to allow a hero with a high enough prestige score without a keep in their bloodline to take over an empty keep if there are no eligible members of the family the keep was originally made for.

Each family members prestige earned would add to that of the house and perhaps houses could use prestige like experience and level up giving heros small buffs based on their houses prestige.

More combat features:

These suggestions are pretty dispersed in various threads, and mostly it's "Overwatch. Overwatch. nye nye nyeeee" but here's an example that stands out:

Chilihead writes:

- Zones of Control in combat. A unit will attack if you move by it, this will give caberjacks the ability to shield other units.

- Interrupts when you have actions left and ended your turn.

- Flank attacks (having a unit on both sides of an enemy)

And finally, A yarn I wrote up yons ago: The Expansion Pile: Antagonists, do we have any?

My favourite idea though, would be to add a new voice into the ruler’s head! One that is a bit more… inclined torwards letting the cadence win. It could be a remnant of the alchemist, a soul trapped in cadence with a connection to the chalice, a character related to some sub-story in the expansion or just a character that accompanies you in a new “scenario”-type campaign. Having a bad guy banter with your current advisors from time to time would be… interesting. The most important actions the antagonist takes, are often the ones that don’t have anything to do with the gameplay (which is why I became fascinated by the game’s story after the Sad story I heard in “the Wanderer” event)

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Seeing a lot of people complaining that because you only get a few fights with any given hero, you never really get attached to them or feel like they are passing the torch.

Maybe as a second wave style option have a mode where the major timescales are halved (research, construction and chalice charge time and the gaps between cadence attacks). Would let you have fewer generations with each hero counting for more.

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A rather handsome gentleman writes: The Expansion Pile: Boss Monsters

Need I say more? New enemy types are, to me, the most important Big thing to improve the game.

Agreed. More enemy types is the biggest thing the game needs. This has always been my biggest gripe.

I also think a Long-War esque decompressed timeline would be a great option for those who feel no connection to their heroes. More battle per lifetime, longer timeline, less exp, more generations to get to level 10. etc.

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Talked about at the very beginning of the Relic discussion, were having relics that weren't just weapons -- but armor and items. I really liked that idea, and would love to see if it could be revisited for a future DLC.

Smiles

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Oh, also a skill tree randomisation mod. Make each hero unique.

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My vote is for two things. (1) More random events! And (2), less-random random events! My diatribe from the random event thread:

This is much too late to hit v1.0, but I'd like to eventually see an overarching structure for the event system. My concern is that right now, events are random in a same-y kind of way. Because they rarely carry lasting effects beyond tweaking a unit's value as regent or standard, I worry that people will find the/their ideal build order and make subsequent playthroughs more about refinement than adaptation, which is where replayability and strategy are going to come from.

I think we’d benefit from categorizing events by Easy/Medium/Hard, and controlling the probability around when each kind would appear. Example:

Years 0-30: 75% Easy events/25% Medium events/0% Hard

Years 30-75: 25%/75%/0%

Years 75-150: 5%/90%/5%

Years 150-250: 0%/80%/20%

Years 250-300: 0%/25%/75%

Easy Events: Themed around Opportunity. The focus here is on getting your hero engine chugging and giving you healthy shoves in new directions tech-wise. These would often have guaranteed benefits, low-risk or low-cost consequences, and/or the ability to freely opt-out of risky decisions. In a nutshell, these ask "Which good thing do you want?"

Medium Events: Themed around Tradeoffs. These would include most of the current events, focusing on risks and gambles to refine a kingdom that is already up-and-running. Traits, personalities, and relics become a big focus, but these are frequently loaded with tradeoffs, threatening to torpedo bloodlines and kingdoms if you push your luck foolishly. These primarily ask "Which risky thing do you want?"

Hard Events: Themed around Damage Control. Your kingdom is full of big damn heroes, but you can’t bench press away the Cadence’s corruption. These may include minor benefits to your heroes and relics, but at heavy cost or risk. More frequently, you’re caught choosing whether to lose your left arm or your right. Aka "Which bad thing do you want?"

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Also, I'm a big fan of triggered Personalities (Lone Wolf/Pack Hunter, Avenger, Bonded to House X, etc.) over the flat ones (Tranquil, Patriotic, Alert, etc.). I don't know if I ever actually formalized this in the various trait/personality threads, but I think you could use that structure to revamp the personality system into a cool metagame in its own right, so here we go.

Morale via Personality

Traits are your characters' stats. They may be good or bad, but they are - and are intended to be - flat modifiers on stuff you're already going to be doing. And that's fine. Personalities, on the other hand, are about expression, and are what should really lead to procedural storytelling & fancy headcanon by differentiating how heroes act. We just need to game-ify it the correct way.

To that end, all Personalities would be re-written to be (A) triggered by a specific in-battle context, and (B) uniformly positive when triggered. In addition, heroes would have a dynamic Morale stat in combat ranging from 0 to 3, and that Morale would be equal to the number of their Personalities that are currently being triggered.

Hero has 0 Morale = As current state, minus some accuracy (15%?)

1 Morale = As current state

2 Morale = Current state, plus some accuracy (15%?)

3 Morale = Current state, plus more accuracy (25%?) and some stats (+5?)

The idea being that you would need to very consciously tailor your team structure and tactics based on how your heroes like to act, rather than just who has the biggest numbers. In a nutshell, this would give Personalities a lot more... personality.

Example personalities to incorporate into this system

Aggressive: +Morale when attacking full HP enemies

Bloodthirsty: +Morale for 3 turns after killing an enemy

Cautious: +Morale when >75% HP

Cunning: +Morale when attacking a stunned enemy

Gregarious: +Morale when near members of 2 other families

Insular: +Morale when near 2 family members

Natural Leader: +Morale to all nearby allies

Relentless: +Morale when <40% HP

Ruthless: +Morale when attacking enemies <50%HP

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not sure this is expansion material, maybe its patchable, but: a difficulty above brutal! I still think veteran tactical gamers will find brutal a bit too easy.

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Probably my second msot wanted idea for the expansion pile after more enemies is:

relics giving traits, stats and skills. All that stuff is already in the game, all that remains is stitching them together. So say a caber or thrower which grants hunter stealth, or a bow which grants leech stone lifesteal. Maybe a caber which gives +strength, or a thrower which gives +int. A bow which gives "bloodthirsty" or "patriotic".

Maybe give cadence weapons the ability to become relics as well. So you can have "cursed relics" e.g. a thrower which grants increased damage at the cost of fertility. Or a caber which passes a curse down to all of your descendants.

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In-Game Bloodline Creator. In most of the comments I've seen in reviews, this is the one of the things that bums people out the most. The other is not being able to rename heroes, which I could live without.

Smiles

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In-Game Bloodline Creator. In most of the comments I've seen in reviews, this is the one of the things that bums people out the most. The other is not being able to rename heroes, which I could live without.

Smiles

Indeed, ive commented on that in the steam forums as well.

@Doublefine are you still opposed to the idea? otherwise i would suggest making a poll for the bloodline backers im pretty sure most people want to share their part of the awesome game :)

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In-Game Bloodline Creator. In most of the comments I've seen in reviews, this is the one of the things that bums people out the most. The other is not being able to rename heroes, which I could live without.

Smiles

Indeed, ive commented on that in the steam forums as well.

@Doublefine are you still opposed to the idea? otherwise i would suggest making a poll for the bloodline backers im pretty sure most people want to share their part of the awesome game :)

I think it came down to not being able to have the time and money to dedicate to that system, since it seems like a decent amount of bloodline backers were okay with people creating their own unique house, just not too much editing of existing of houses: http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/15785/P0/

From an old steam post by one of the MC Team Members:

No, we currently do not have plans to put the bloodline editor into the game. It’s something that we have considered, but there’s the matter of development time as well as not being sure how fair it would be to backers that paid to get into the “create a house” tier. I wasn’t aware the Prison Architect had a similar issue, but there you go.

But, while it’s something that COULD happen, if the stars align right, in some unspecified future, the current plan for 1.0 is for that to NOT happen. Putting the editor in-game is not in any of our schedules or roadmap (except the wishlist one). I cannot stress this enough. Please do not be expecting it to show up as a surprise. We’re not trying to surprise anyone.

I’m hoping that the rest of the team doesn’t get mad at me for being so blunt in this post, but it’s probably better than having you guys thinking that there’s a feature on the way that we have not promised in any way.

The houses and house selection, as it stands how, are (is?) pretty much final (except for some shuffling of houses off the ‘thematic’ list into the ‘non-thematic’ as we finally get the puns hidden in them).

Smiles

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Probably my second msot wanted idea for the expansion pile after more enemies is:

relics giving traits, stats and skills. All that stuff is already in the game, all that remains is stitching them together. So say a caber or thrower which grants hunter stealth, or a bow which grants leech stone lifesteal. Maybe a caber which gives +strength, or a thrower which gives +int. A bow which gives "bloodthirsty" or "patriotic".

Maybe give cadence weapons the ability to become relics as well. So you can have "cursed relics" e.g. a thrower which grants increased damage at the cost of fertility. Or a caber which passes a curse down to all of your descendants.

I'd almost go so far as to say that this is ... a missing element. Like it feels sort of ... you expect it.

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The tournament idea I suggest a while back. It was also tied to another good idea.

"Titles/Monikers/Medals" Instead of "Nick Names", which can be passed down through the generations. I don't remember the details though I'm sure it's here on the forums.

I still can not handle the fact the blastcappers have charge and not slam and vice versa the shadowjack having slam. Like. I literally operate on the assumption that they have it, and am continually putting my Heroes in terrible positions because I expect them to be oppositely available. Like. I can't imagine it another way. It's weird. *shrug*

A non-random event mode/option. Like. I get that these events are supposed to create a narrative journey, but ... since you can't call up the "block of descriptive text" which explains why your Hero got some random ass trait like Walrus Warrior, or American Idiot, after so many times of seeing these events over and over I can tell you that for the most part I just roll dice to decide the outcome. Sometimes I feel like I'm trying to navigate the internet back when pop-ups were everywhere.

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I'm still grossly disappointed that you don't have the option to start out subsequent games with the bloodlines from your last game, and younger versions of your most bad ass characters from those bloodlines and their traits/personalities, for better breeding stock***. It pretty much, has made the ending, for me, even more meaningless? Like. I had a few run throughs where I did get very attached to the relics (their names), and the characters. But... the entire plot point, begs, for an option to "continue from the ending" ... and the fact that you can't do that. Is kind of ...

inconsequential? inconceivable! (Well. Maybe I don't know what that word means. But I hope you take my meaning.)

***Also thinking about it, this would probably be a change that would the Brutal setting way more satisfying to complete.

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Dang it. I originally logged on to make a totally different point.

I. Want. A. Surrender. Button.

Especially for Brutal, Ironman mode. Maybe it's because of all the games I've done in Beta. But I'm now starting to feel like my time is being wasted by this game.

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I'd definitely like to see a longer campaign, with more battles per generation and less exp to compensate for how fast your characters will level... Or maybe just up the levels and add in a few more skills, which would be a lot more time consuming and harder to balance.

One thing I liked about Brütal Legend, that could be done in Massive Chalice, is when loading the game and the Double Fine logo pops up... Have someone shouting "DOUBLE FIIIINE!" because it just doesn't have the same effect when I do it myself >____>

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After watching a couple of people get through the finale without losing a hero, I feel like the game would benefit hugely from having that final battle retuned to make that impossible. If you don't get the support of your heroes' ancestors, the final battle loses so much of its impact IMO.

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The problem is lower level Heroes are pretty ineffective. So you can't even hold back the enemies.

I actually tended not to bother with the final fight in my last play through series I wad doing during testing.

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My top four most desired content additions:

1. New Encounter / Battle Types, with objectives beyond just "kill all the enemies". I've got a thread somewhere with more in-depth suggestions...

2. Boss Enemies: Extra tough or altogether different enemies that really stand out and make a significant impact on the battlefield. It would be a big deal when they are encountered.... and of course they'd also be worth a TON of XP and grant titles / legendary weapons really often, maybe even drop special goodies.

3. Human Enemies: Those little story bits we get throughout the game reference dissenters and Cadence-worshippers and other bad people pretty often, so it seem logical that the heroes would end up fighting them at some point. It would be a really interesting change of pace to go from fighting Cadence to fighting enemies with similar abilities to the heroes and have to use completely different tactics.

4. Weather and other battlefield conditions: Not just for pretty visual effect, but conditions that actually impact the battle, affecting the movement or vision or fighting ability of your heroes or applying status effects on a large scale.

-

I would definitely be willing to pay for an expansion pack that added good content like this that would deepen the current gameplay experience, or for one that added more campaign altogether. :)

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My top four most desired content additions:

1. New Encounter / Battle Types, with objectives beyond just "kill all the enemies". I've got a thread somewhere with more in-depth suggestions...

2. Boss Enemies: Extra tough or altogether different enemies that really stand out and make a significant impact on the battlefield. It would be a big deal when they are encountered.... and of course they'd also be worth a TON of XP and grant titles / legendary weapons really often, maybe even drop special goodies.

3. Human Enemies: Those little story bits we get throughout the game reference dissenters and Cadence-worshippers and other bad people pretty often, so it seem logical that the heroes would end up fighting them at some point. It would be a really interesting change of pace to go from fighting Cadence to fighting enemies with similar abilities to the heroes and have to use completely different tactics.

4. Weather and other battlefield conditions: Not just for pretty visual effect, but conditions that actually impact the battle, affecting the movement or vision or fighting ability of your heroes or applying status effects on a large scale.

These are all pretty expensive (in terms of workhours and new modeling and effects), though I can see #1 potentially happening, since I think they kicked around additional ideas for a while, but decided that scope didn't allow for additional mission types.

And #4 -- more environmental effects specifically. Most locations have one environmental item (burst bushes, geyser, breakable eggs, tall grass). I could see more rupture like cadence effects -- ground effects that have an impact (e.g. thick mud / marsh, cooling lava, etc) on characters, cadence and non-cadence.

Those seem like the ones most likely to make it out of your list. I'd like #2, though that sounds like a fair amount of work -- though we know that they in general would like to spice things up with greater amount of enemies.

#3 -- Brad mentioned early on he wanted to avoid having human enemies, so I think that is the least likely.

Smiles

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New Game+ +1

Relic Armor +1

How about, if you have a fertile House with hundreds of fat children, and you're running out of names for them all, to recycle some old names of former Regents or high-level heroes, but put a "the II" or "the IV" after the name?

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