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Anemone

Beyond Good & Evil 2 - Let's talk story predictions (BG&E1; spoilers)

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GUYS WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GONNA HAPPEN

DIDN'T JADE, LIKE, TURN INTO NEO AT THE END OF THE FIRST ONE? WHAT IS UP WITH THAT?

DO YOU THINK THE FART BOOTS WILL RETURN?

WHY DO FRENCH PEOPLE LIKE FARTS SO MUCH?

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DIDN'T JADE, LIKE, TURN INTO NEO AT THE END OF THE FIRST ONE? WHAT IS UP WITH THAT?

If she is Neo Pey'J is turning into Agent Smith.

No no no, Pey'j is more like Morpheus than anything. Well, in rank anyway. He sends Hahn (bald guy) to do the whole red pill / blue pill business.

Agent Smith is more like that General Kehk guy.

...

kek kek kek kek kek

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NO SPOILERZ

i still have to beat this game

But I put spoilers in the thread title, ya dingus

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DIDN'T JADE, LIKE, TURN INTO NEO AT THE END OF THE FIRST ONE? WHAT IS UP WITH THAT?

DO YOU THINK THE FART BOOTS WILL RETURN?

WHY DO FRENCH PEOPLE LIKE FARTS SO MUCH?

Contraction of the abdominal muscles is not the same as farting. Activation of the JetBoots should be stench free.

But on to less important stuff.

Jade didn't 'turn into Neo'; she just discovered a power in herself that the DomZ consider the source of THEIR power. I'm not averse to the idea that Jade is of DomZ heritage herself – that would make perfect sense, I think.

Hence, investigating that heritage and Jade's newly discovered powers would be a key component of part 2 – especially in the gameplay, I hope. Apart from that, Ancel has IIRC said that nature and our relationship to nature is something they'd like to investigate with the second part. Then again, that was in 2008. It would be a god damn waste not to pick up the photography/journalism angle and expand on it. Maybe add more of an undercover/muckraker angle to it.

Beyond Good & Evil 2 may turn out to just be a bland Uplay ridden Assassin's Creed clone. I really hope they don't have the money for that. A smaller venture, maybe even a 2D / UbiArt jump and slash would feel more satisfying to me, once they rid it of the client that is.

Of absolute importance are of course the return of Christophe Héral and a half-orchestral soundtrack.

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Contraction of the abdominal muscles is not the same as farting. Activation of the JetBoots should be stench free.

But on to less important stuff.

Ah, but he doesn't JUST say contraction of the abdominal muscles. He also speaks of the jet boot system consisting of a compartment of "pressurized methane", at which point the camera shows the padded bit of hits pants covering his bum region. It doesn't explicitly say they are fart boots, but they imply it strongly enough.

Jade didn't 'turn into Neo'; she just discovered a power in herself that the DomZ consider the source of THEIR power. I'm not averse to the idea that Jade is of DomZ heritage herself – that would make perfect sense, I think.

Hence, investigating that heritage and Jade's newly discovered powers would be a key component of part 2 – especially in the gameplay, I hope. Apart from that, Ancel has IIRC said that nature and our relationship to nature is something they'd like to investigate with the second part. Then again, that was in 2008. It would be a god damn waste not to pick up the photography/journalism angle and expand on it. Maybe add more of an undercover/muckraker angle to it.

I was being a bit facetious with the neo joke of course. But I think the idea that she might somehow be of the same nature as the domz makes a sort of sense. (She shares their green color scheme and everything!) It might not be that she is a dom herself (what is the singular of domz anyway?) but that she and the domz both share a certain quality. Sort of like if they both shared "the force" but the domz are the dark side and jade is an awakened jedi. You know?

Beyond Good & Evil 2 may turn out to just be a bland Uplay ridden Assassin's Creed clone. I really hope they don't have the money for that. A smaller venture, maybe even a 2D / UbiArt jump and slash would feel more satisfying to me, once they rid it of the client that is.

I have had moments of nervousness, I'm not going to lie. I really like Ancel, but I don't have a lot of trust in Ubisoft. The leaked gameplay footage makes me feel very strange, because the original BG&E is so stylized and cartoony. It looked very much like a saturday morning cartoon, you know? And the leaked footage is very... umm... Assassin's Creed. So whether Ancel decides he wants to make it more like Assassin's Creed or whether Ubisoft railroads him into making it more like an Assassin's Creed game, I don't really agree with that. It should keep the stylized sort of appearance that it had.

I'm sure it will be great in its own way either way, but I'll be a little bit sad if Ancel caves to Ubi's asscreed whoring. Some of the things he said during the devs play about keeping the team small and trying to preserve the game's original spirit made me feel pretty good. Still feeling uncertain about the supposed new look, though.

Of absolute importance are of course the return of Christophe Héral and a half-orchestral soundtrack.

Agreed. One of my absolute favorite VG OSTs of all time. Really good music and lots of variety.

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I really hope the nitty-gritty hyper-realistic graphics is just part of a tech-demo or something. That big a departure from the original visual style takes so much of the charm away.

I felt like it made some of the darker themes of the first game more palatable, too. There's so many games out there that are nitty-gritty real graphics-wise coupled with dark themes to sell an atmosphere of bleakness and that's just.... not what Beyond Good & Evil is, to me. Like yeah, things were bad in the first game and they managed to make that very apparent without beating you over the head with that fact using the visuals as well.

There was alot of hope and positivity in the first game which I think the simplified, uncluttered artstyle underscored. Like yeah, yeah I know, don't judge a game by its graphics, but I wouldn't discount how much of an impact it had on the overall tone of the game.

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I really hope the nitty-gritty hyper-realistic graphics is just part of a tech-demo or something. That big a departure from the original visual style takes so much of the charm away.

I felt like it made some of the darker themes of the first game more palatable, too. There's so many games out there that are nitty-gritty real graphics-wise coupled with dark themes to sell an atmosphere of bleakness and that's just.... not what Beyond Good & Evil is, to me. Like yeah, things were bad in the first game and they managed to make that very apparent without beating you over the head with that fact using the visuals as well.

There was alot of hope and positivity in the first game which I think the simplified, uncluttered artstyle underscored. Like yeah, yeah I know, don't judge a game by its graphics, but I wouldn't discount how much of an impact it had on the overall tone of the game.

I feel absolutely 100% the same way and also kinda hope it was some kinda tech demo. For example, they may have been using textures/assets from others games just to put together some kinda demo, but may not have had any final art ready or even the art style nailed down yet. But the fact that the teaser trailer they put out that showed the new pey'j makes me worry that oh no... maybe not... but we'll see. On the other hand... the teaser had at least one anthropomorphic animal (pey'j) and the leaked footage just had humans and ordinary animals, which suggests maybe the leaked footage is not final/official. I could literally hem and haw about this all day.

The appeal of the original definitely came at least somewhat from the visuals. And it doesn't even really have anything to do with "good graphics", because that to me refers more to stuff like texture quality. I think the charm came more from the visual style. It was like a saturday morning cartoon or a pixar movie or something. But if they change the visual style to be more like what we saw in the trailer and leaked footage, or in other words if they asscreedify it, then it will be kind of sad. It'll be like going from The Incredibles to live action. It'll just be so jarring.

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It doesn't explicitly say they are fart boots, but they imply it strongly enough.

Yes, they heavily imply fart boots. But if I'm thinking this through... they can use methane as fuel easily enough without resorting to constant somatic refill. I don't even want to think about the logistics involved here i.e. tubes and... oh god poor Uncle Pey'J, the sacrifices he makes for science! :(

I think the idea that she might somehow be of the same nature as the domz makes a sort of sense. (She shares their green color scheme and everything!) It might not be that she is a dom herself (what is the singular of domz anyway?) but that she and the domz both share a certain quality. Sort of like if they both shared "the force" but the domz are the dark side and jade is an awakened jedi. You know?

Oh yes, of course I know. And I really, really hope they're not going that way. The all too simple and clear cut distinction between good and evil is, today, a black mark on science fiction narratives throughout. And when the series is in fact called "Beyond Good & Evil", well... I expect a more sophisticated approach. That's why I'd much prefer if Jade is DomZ, nothing dark, nothing light. The very same power we've seen inflicting so much pain and suffering in part one may be used to do good in part two. In the same vein, I'd like to see some of the more gruesome character creations from part one working on the IRIS network side of things.

I have had moments of nervousness, I'm not going to lie. I really like Ancel, but I don't have a lot of trust in Ubisoft. The leaked gameplay footage makes me feel very strange, because the original BG&E is so stylized and cartoony. It looked very much like a saturday morning cartoon, you know?

To me, not quite. I'm convinced that the visual appeal of part one can be achieved with a more realistic approach. The secret was in the constrast between the beautiful, quirky nature and the blunt and blocky factories of doom. Sure, it should remain somewhat stylized as well, but there indeed ARE stylized elements in that six year old leaked footage.

Of course, if there ever is a BG&E 2, it will look nothing like the 'leaked' footage of six years ago.

the leaked footage just had humans and ordinary animals

Name that ordinary animal:

b924386690d9cb4f6417288d6498d203_ordinarycowthing.png

That's... a mixture between a cow, goat and a camel (I think there's a second hump even).

But it all seems so unfinished and preliminary. I don't think we'll have to expect it looks like THAT.

There was alot of hope and positivity in the first game which I think the simplified, uncluttered artstyle underscored. Like yeah, yeah I know, don't judge a game by its graphics, but I wouldn't discount how much of an impact it had on the overall tone of the game.

Absolutely, the graphics fit the game. What I still find impressive today is Jade's range of facial expression, and I'm mostly afraid of having a different Jade character model – evidently a more realistically proportioned one, and that comes with a sincerely shrinked head in the first place.

A LOT can go wrong by translating BG&E into a more realistic look. A whole, whole lot. There's no denying this.

Then again, Ubisoft still has spectacular artists in its ranks.

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Well now there has to be a whole biker gang of anthropomorphic pigs on motocycles, and their leather jackets have to say ROAD HOGZ.

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Whooo-hooo. Ancel teasers on.

...I am in awe as to how well the first part's anthropomorphic design is coming across.

 

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THERE is an anthropomorphic character! One of the things that concerned me about that old leaked teaser is how there appeared to be animals but not anthropomorphic animals. It is good to see some animal people!

I admit I am still looking askance at this new "video games are gritty and brown" art style when the original had a decidedly more Disney/Pixar sort of feel. Beggars can't be choosers and all, but just the same, I'm not sure what's going on there.

Edited by AnAnemoneInAnonymity

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This new concept is basically uncolored, so I wouldn't worry too much. The artist just slapped a bit of blue-gray chroma on the upper half and a bit of orange-gray chroma to the lower. It's all a question of lighting, which probably changes throughout the game. I mean, for much of BG&E1, Uncle Pey'j looked pretty darn totally gray as the blue-green lighting perfectly outbalanced the orange-rose color of his pigskin.

I'm certain that in some parts of part 2, the high chroma of the first teaser picture's piglet will be left intact. :D

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Well I mean, even just the shape of the character has a more "realistic" quality to it. The shapes and the textures. It's still very different than a more soft/cartoony look of the first game.

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The anthrosharks (i.e. the two Carcharodon sapiens in the Akuda bar) in the first part looked considerably more harmless, absolutely. But somehow I still remember that I first looked at those in 2003 and thought "these have got to be enemies of some kind as gruesome as they look...".

So, realism aside, I'm pretty sure this new design brings across something similar in my initial reaction.

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57 minutes ago, Vainamoinen said:

The anthrosharks (i.e. the two Carcharodon sapiens in the Akuda bar) in the first part looked considerably more harmless, absolutely. But somehow I still remember that I first looked at those in 2003 and thought "these have got to be enemies of some kind as gruesome as they look...".

So, realism aside, I'm pretty sure this new design brings across something similar in my initial reaction.

My immediate reaction to those was they were like Street Sharks haha. I thought I was going to be racing them and there was going to be this whole racing sidequest/narrative or something involving this game's version of some kinda Street Sharks biker gang.

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Okay, fuck Ubisoft.

"Game in pre-production", Ancel? What the effing crap. This isn't coming out NX-exclusive, folks. This is coming out at the earliest exclusive to the console that Nintendo releases AFTER the NX. This isn't some eight year old concept art. This is brand new, and Ubisoft probably greenlit the making of these only after the takeover threat became apparent. Nopes, they're not eight years old. There aren't any eight year old concepts evidently. All those years when Ubisoft said that BG&E2 was in production, they did the thing that begins with an L, but that's a word that's overused in gamer lingo so I won't delve into it.

(They got your color back in this one, Anemone, though it's obvious they have used the shark template for the body. This is all in a day's work for an Ubisoft artist. :( )

 

Edited by Vainamoinen
Needed to adjust post so it says %#$@&! properly

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Pre-production...?! They've been making it sound like it was in production for years! I mean, I didn't think the game was imminent or anything, but I thought that maybe they at least had some prototyping and stuff done. What was that teaser trailer a few years ago about if they seriously are only in pre-production...????

I still think the art looks too realism-ified. Putting aside for the moment that they just re-used the shark body (lord I hope they aren't that lazy on the final product), just look at that texture! The original characters were smooth and cartoony, but these concept characters are so textured and gritty.

To me it's like if they did a Mario game where instead of Mario having smooth cartoon skin, he had a realistic skin texture and fully rendered hair follicles in his mustache. It just seems... weird. I'm still weirded out by how Pey'j looked in that teaser trailer.

It's pretty obvious to me that they are giving the game a stylistic makeover and I'm not sure how I feel about it.

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22 hours ago, AnAnemoneInAnonymity said:

I still think the art looks too realism-ified. Putting aside for the moment that they just re-used the shark body (lord I hope they aren't that lazy on the final product), just look at that texture! The original characters were smooth and cartoony, but these concept characters are so textured and gritty.

To me it's like if they did a Mario game where instead of Mario having smooth cartoon skin, he had a realistic skin texture and fully rendered hair follicles in his mustache. It just seems... weird. I'm still weirded out by how Pey'j looked in that teaser trailer.

It's pretty obvious to me that they are giving the game a stylistic makeover and I'm not sure how I feel about it.

Of course its just pre-production art here, and of course they're using templates for artists so they can churn out more concepts per hour (cph). Ubisoft is applying their lazyness elsewhere, their asset production in the final game is reliably AAA.

I understand where your initial negative reaction comes from, and I even see how that "untooned" thought can be applied to the new sketches (which can go right!), but I myself can not follow that path. I loved the Pey'j iteration from the 2008 trailer. And I think the original game from 2003 at least aimed at a kind of... let's call it "grit"... that I recognize from these new sketches. I of course love the more abstracted designs from BG&E1, which follow a 'child pattern' with their proportions, big eyes and fur. But going for a more realistic portrayal asks the question whether we can still feel love for antropomorphized animals when they do look "like in real life".

I somehow feel like the answer should be yes. :|

There's ample double standard in that thought of course. Because Jade's redesign will likely break my heart in two. They can_not get this right. :P

Edited by Vainamoinen

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My problem with the Pey'j from the 2008 teaser trailer was a combination of things. I mean, the realism-ification of the art style was part of it, but it was also that there were certain adjustments to his features that affected the personality he projected. In the original game, he had softer eyes, was more clean, and his eye scar was present but not as pronounced. In the 2008 Pey'j his eyes are further back in his skull with a more pronounced brow, which projects a low "tough guy" sort of character, like he's just Jade's brute or something. (An enlarged/pronounced brow on cronies and tough guys is a common trope in fictional characters. Sunken eyes are commonly used for shady/untrustworthy characters.) They also made his scar more pronounced which isn't necessarily bad but adds to the brutish feeling. And then on top of all that they made him just overall seem more dirty/sweaty. I mean, he IS a pig and everything, but he didn't seem dirty in the original game.

 

I don't know. I'm not saying that it's bad. I think it could be fine. I mean, even in the Final Fantasy universe, if you're thinking about the Bangaa and Viera races of Ivalice, there were the cartoony versions for the longest time, but then FFXII came along and did a "realism-ified" version of them, and you know what? It was fine!

 

I think maybe I just need to see what this is going to look like in action. It just makes me nervous because there is this feeling like, "Oh no, if they changed this, WHAT ELSE WILL THEY CHANGE AND WILL I LIKE IT OH NO WHAT IF I DON'T" etc etc

 

I was okay with the realism-ified Jade from behind, but thinking about what her face is going to look like in the new style... oh man. This feels like one of those "half of the fans love it and half the fans hate it" situations.

Edited by AnAnemoneInAnonymity

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Official confirmation that Ubisoft Montpellier (Rayman, Valiant Hearts, Beyond Good & Evil) is working on "a new Beyond Good & Evil game":

https://www.facebook.com/beyondgoodandevil/photos/a.168617863187768.35250.131546723561549/1068744866508392/?type=3&theater

I still don't understand why this confirmation is any different than the dozens we've received during the last eight years. Le sigh. 

I think the 2008 trailer showed Pey'j as dirty/dusty because he'd just spent hours trying to repair the damn car, not because he has problems with his bodily hygiene. :P

As to Jade... there was the idea that Ancel based her looks on his wife, and the then PR manager Tyrone Miller said that Shannyn Sossamon should play Jade in a movie. And if they're going for a Shannyn Sossamon look for Jade... I at least wouldn't freak out.

4df09cba246117ce1da31b19af931a4e_sossamo

 

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I'll be curious to see, but one thing I hope they don't do is go out of their way to make her sexy or even, like, give her pouty lips and shit. She is one of the better female protagonists we've had (and one of the least obnoxiously dressed, green lipstick aside) and I hope we can keep her that way. Not like "she can't be at all physically attractive or it is wrong" or anything like that, but you know what I mean.

I always thought of her as asian mixed. Ethnically similar to Alyx Vance, who has a similar haircut, also reasonably dressed. I kinda always saw Jade as a more green-hued cartoon Alyx.

Edited by AnAnemoneInAnonymity

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More concept arts from 2008 – not to be used in the new game.

135d3cc4b953c7427562c41581ff3147_jade200

It does leave heritage pretty much undecided, probably deliberately.

And then there's the boiling rumor that this next instalment is more of an expanded remake than an actual sequel. And I_don't_like_it. ¬¬

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19 hours ago, Vainamoinen said:

More concept arts from 2008 – not to be used in the new game.

135d3cc4b953c7427562c41581ff3147_jade200

It does leave heritage pretty much undecided, probably deliberately.

And then there's the boiling rumor that this next instalment is more of an expanded remake than an actual sequel. And I_don't_like_it. ¬¬

That's sorta disappointing, but I don't necessarily mind.

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In light of what Ancel said about "his visions" for the new BG&E instalment, and in light of Ubisoft's recent games, this Jimquisition video takes a bit of a prophetic role. Without even mentioning BG&E explicitly. :|

 

Edited by Vainamoinen

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